^^ Yeah, build somethin' plz. All this residential is great, but I'd like to see more retail as I'm too poor and I'll be able to buy books and socks before I can afford a $200,000 condo.

From what I saw of the model, it will be like nothing else ever built in this city.  That's a good thing.

 

Can you give more details on what the building/buildings look like?  Are there pictures or website available?

I think that the cemetery is a huge asset. Its a beautiful park with mature trees and interesting stone sculpture. With the walls and fencing, its also a great place to let your dog run free.

 

Great...let your dog take a dump on someones grave!  :|

I like the idea of letting the cemetary double as a park (something I'd been wanting to see happen for a while, actually), but yeah, dogs shouldn't be pooping on graves- too bad they keep the Jake locked up.

Yeah, it's not like it was paid for by the public...

For our reference:

 

 

Cool!!!  I always thought Sumner would be a great street for condos!!

 

if a cemetary in the backyard doesn't bother potential home buyers, I can't imagine a salvation army facility will.  I am glad this map shows area past e14th in play.

 

and not to crown myself king obvious, but it is boggling how much parking is in cleveland when you look at it with google maps.   

 

Look at the following cities in google and see what downtown seas of parking they have: Atlanta, Detroit, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Houston, Charoltee, Phoenix, Denver.

 

I hate parking lots just as much as the next person but lets not think that Cleveland is the only city with prime undeveloped land.  Now that the majority (KJP am I correct in this) of buildings downtown have been slated for residential conversion, its only a matter of time before developers start announcing plans for new commecial and residential building.

 

I sincerly hope that once the FEB and the county building, the second phase of the Avenue district start construction we'll see plans for those new buildings, since there will be no place to build but UP

Matter of time?

 

The Avenue District

Flats East Bank

Flats West Bank

Pesht

Now maybe Gray's Green

 

??

 

I'd say matter of record.

Matter of time?

 

The Avenue District

Flats East Bank

Flats West Bank

Pesht

Now maybe Gray's Green

 

??

 

I'd say matter of record.

 

I stand corrected

whether we hold the record for surface parking lots, or are simply one of many cities with this problem(of course we are), it is still rather boggling to pan across the seas of cars to the east of the city.  it is just more glaring when seen from above.  again, it was an observation, and an admittedly obvious one.  certainly not an indictment of our fair city.  

 

 

Now that the majority (KJP am I correct in this) of buildings downtown have been slated for residential conversion, its only a matter of time before developers start announcing plans for new commecial and residential building.

 

I posted an answer at the following link to keep this thread on topic...

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3594.msg161530#msg161530

I stand corrected

 

No worries, there's alot being proposed to keep track of, and not much in the ground to make it real yet.

so when can we expect some visuals??

Something a little disconcerting about a council member actually using the "word" Stark-ified.  Now you know it's the 21st century.

 

At any rate, I'm excited to see what's in store here.

Nice article!!  You definitely got the scope on that one.  The PD and Crains had no idea.

 

So, does Stark need to acquire options on any other properties to get started?  Could this happen before the Warehouse District stuff?

So Stark is now working on:

 

Warehouse District

Gray's Green

Shaker Heights TOD?? -- Any news on this?

Great article KJP!

 

I hope this quiet phase of the Warehouse district ends soon, and I wonder if there will be construction for both projects going on at the same time.

^I'm hearing that this one is years away.  I've also heard some rumblings about Stark dragging his feet on his WHD project (whatever that means).

ughhhhhhhhh  :|

^^ Let's hope. Actions speak louder than words.

I've been quietly suspicious of Stark.  For all his talk, he's still a little guy, comparatively.  He needs help.  I wish he'd take a smaller approach rather than this mega, let's-makeover-downtown talk.  Croker Park is a huge success – not the kind of project I think is good for Cleveland – but it’s been good for Stark.. But he’s still not big enough to talk on the scale he’s talking.  He needs partnerships to build on the scale he’s talking; and he’s all over the place with no commitment (he apparently is closest to getting something going in the Shaker TOD at Van Aken-Warrensville; at least the last I know about ½ year ago)... Look at MRN—a retired business man from Shaker who loves Cleveland, moved downtown and got his family into a strategic RE concern.  MRN, too, were little guys and they started small, one 4th street parcel at a time.  And now look at 4th Street.  It's thriving.  Almost as lively and more diverse than the popular WHD... really, Cleveland's got to be more proactive in getting something going in this Pesht area.  Stark would be great, but if he's not up to it, FIND SOMEONE WHO IS.  Guys are doing stuff.  Zaremba.  Price/Corna.  MRN.  Wolstein's just about to get going once the bogus eminent domain court challenge of the dirty dozen is rightfully defeated so Scott can get going ... But, as far as I know (correct me if I’m wrong), Stark doesn’t even have a hard proposal for downtown either before Council or the Planning Commission.  It’s really beginning to be a bit much.

 

... Too much is going on downtown for Cleveland to keep waiting ad infinitum for Bob Stark.  It's time he either you-know-what or get off the pot.

 

I didn't mean for my comment to lead for a call for Stark's head. I think we'd all like Stark to move more quickly on his proposal, but Phase I is massive!! If we don't hear anything concrete in the next 9 months, then that's something different.

^ I agree. Lets see if the WHD project evolves first, but I think we all have become somewhat apprehensive.

^I agree, I'm not worried yet.  Just gotta have faith sometimes.

I've been quietly suspicious of Stark.  For all his talk, he's still a little guy, comparatively.  He needs help.  I wish he'd take a smaller approach rather than this mega, let's-makeover-downtown talk.  Croker Park is a huge success – not the kind of project I think is good for Cleveland – but it’s been good for Stark.. But he’s still not big enough to talk on the scale he’s talking.  He needs partnerships to build on the scale he’s talking; and he’s all over the place with no commitment (he apparently is closest to getting something going in the Shaker TOD at Van Aken-Warrensville; at least the last I know about ½ year ago)... Look at MRN—a retired business man from Shaker who loves Cleveland, moved downtown and got his family into a strategic RE concern.  MRN, too, were little guys and they started small, one 4th street parcel at a time.  And now look at 4th Street.  It's thriving.  Almost as lively and more diverse than the popular WHD... really, Cleveland's got to be more proactive in getting something going in this Pesht area.  Stark would be great, but if he's not up to it, FIND SOMEONE WHO IS.  Guys are doing stuff.  Zaremba.  Price/Corna.  MRN.  Wolstein's just about to get going once the bogus eminent domain court challenge of the dirty dozen is rightfully defeated so Scott can get going ... But, as far as I know (correct me if I’m wrong), Stark doesn’t even have a hard proposal for downtown either before Council or the Planning Commission.  It’s really beginning to be a bit much.

 

... Too much is going on downtown for Cleveland to keep waiting ad infinitum for Bob Stark.  It's time he either you-know-what or get off the pot.

 

 

Dude come one...E 4, nor any project in OHIO, can be compared to what stark is trying to accomplish.  Again, he hasn't said anything, and I don't blame him for not saying anything, as he probably is working with folks who want to keep their plans under wraps.

 

As we all know, just like East 4th, many small parcels of land or even a building can be owned by a number of owners/investors.  MRNs East 4th project and Starks Pesht cannot even be compared.  How do you suggest Cleveland become more proactive??  Whats with all the speculation, just because he hasn't had a big splashy press release.  :roll:

 

I'd rather he didn't say anything and deliver big!  There are all kinds of projects taking place downtown, the ball is now rolling at a good pace and picking up steam, but damn, lets not be over critical, since not one of us (except possibly KJP) has sat at the table with Stark or any or the partners.

 

This isn't going to happen over night and I expect it wont be until late fall until we hear something which is fine by me.  That gives other infill projects, like the Park Building, an opportunity to get on their way while the Pesht continues to evolve so that when it does open, all the projects and people who live in smaller occupied developments can reap the benefits of Pesht, which will keep the housing ball rolling.

 

I'll end by asking, do you know what it takes to pull of a project of this magnatude?  I don't want to hear what Stark should or should not be doing, but you to honestly answer based on your expertise in building and development.

 

smooches...........

^MTS, I couldn't be happier if you were right.  But you've got to admit, the uncertainty is unnerving;... and from the looks of the Pesht link, I'm not the only one...

I don't think Stark is dragging his heels, exactly. I believe what's holding up Pesht now is the TIF negotiations, which KJP has described in his Pesht thread. Apparently what Stark wants to do in that respect is pretty new for Ohio and Cleveland.

 

Meanwhile, I agree with clvdnder about Stark's monolithic approach. I've heard there is wisdom in crowds... ;) He needs to make sure he gets other developers involved, and LOTS of different design teams. Otherwise, what gets built won't fit in with the downtown, which developed over generations under a series of different developers. Part of what makes cities special -- and attractive -- is architectural and conceptual diversity in buildings and design.

I think that's one thing that's causing us all to worry a bit.  With Stark, it seems like it's all or nothing at all.  It's fine (and advisable) to have a master plan, but you've got to be able to start somewhere.  I know that Pesht will be built in phases, but I really doubt Stark will begin a Phase 1 without assurance that the whole thing is set in motion.  I don't think he'd be satisfied building just one corner of Pesht if the rest couldn't be built.  Whether that's a good way of looking at it or not is a matter of opinion.

Anything new on this, or is this on the backburner until Pesht gets rolling? :?

I was just talking with somebody about this just this week. But they had not heard anything either.

I hope that this is on the back burner. Stark ought to concentrate on the WHD at this point. Splintering our development momentum would only hurt Cleveland at this point.

I suspect bought the properties in this area as a placeholder for the future. But since he also commissioned architectural renderings, perhaps he's got something simmering on the leasing front.

Any news on this?

Nothing that I've heard.

Funny this should be brought up today.  I don't have much, but I'll get some thoughts together later in the day.

Got your thoughts together?

A meeting with Stark was postponed, so unfortunately no.  Sorry to keep the suspense for a few days.

No problemo.

Any news on this?

Honestly, check back in 5 years.

I've heard for a long time this project is the backest of back burners.  It's nothing more than an idea right now.

With the announcement that Stark is pulling out of the Warehouse District, I wonder if this is still being worked on (see article from 2007 below). 

 

West Side Sun News

Feb. 22, 2007

Gray's Green project revised

By Ken Prendergast

Staff Writer

 

  Article Removed

 

 

Anyone know what is going on with:

*  the piles of dirt next to Peterson Nut on East 9th & Carnegie

*  the old Goodyear Tire on East 14th & Prospect (there have been contractors going in and out during the past week)

 

Nothing going on with this project rightnow...  the piles of dirt by peterson nut are just making way for a spiffy new surface lot, and the goodyear building could be anything from rehab to prepping for demolition.  Given the lack of talk surrounding the property, I'd lean towards demolition at this point.

Does anyone know anything about this? Who is the developer mentioned? Frangos owns a lot of parking lots, er, property in this area. But Stark Enterprises was interested in this area too. Is this an active planning effort or project (one image appears to date from 2006)? It's listed as active on Westlake Reed Leskosky's website, but I don't know how often they update their site....

 

Cleveland Arts District Master Plan

 

Building on the firm's decades of involvement with Playhouse Square Center, Westlake Reed Leskosky is currently working with a developer to master plan an urban arts district in downtown Cleveland. The area in question encompasses approximately 1 million square feet at the nexus of several important educational and cultural institutions, including: Cleveland State University, Playhouse Square Center Theatre District, Cuyahoga Community College, Gateway Sports and Entertainment District (including Progressive Field), and historic Lakeview Cemetery. The goal is to redevelop this key section of downtown into a vibrant destination featuring music, theatre and entertainment-related venues as well as housing, retail and office uses that complement the adjacent facilities and neighborhoods.

 

 

 

I posted that second rendering in the projects Id like to see forum

You mean this?

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26417.msg581606.html#msg581606

 

I thought you had made that map! Did you find that on WRL's website or did you come across it in some other way?

Does anyone know anything about this? Who is the developer mentioned? Frangos owns a lot of parking lots, er, property in this area. But Stark Enterprises was interested in this area too. Is this an active planning effort or project (one image appears to date from 2006)? It's listed as active on Westlake Reed Leskosky's website, but I don't know how often they update their site....

 

Maybe it's time to resurrect this thread:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,11901.0.html