The problem with either subways or elevated rights-of-way is that in doing so, it drives up the cost of design and construction.  It also raises the issue of handicap access, which also comes at a cost.

 

 

^this is certainly the case.  I have enjoyed every visit i have made to Columbus, but a streetcar would certainly benefit the city, in my opinion, more than a subway.  A streetcar is more cost effective and in columbus, the great urban neighborhoods are accessable on foot (my marathon time was 3:28:05)  a streetcar linking OSU, short north, the arena district, downtown and the german village is feasible in the short term and would do great things for the city.

 

 

We live in a a world where highway money is a free good, a failure capiltalism because the end user does not in any way pay the cost of the services provided.  (I have spoken to more than one economics proffessor who agrees with me on this one... actually it is only two proffessors, but still a valid point.)  Mass transit dollars are few and often subject to popular vote.  A strong streetcar system linking the vital urban neighborhoods is unquestionably the first step for Columbus, Cincinnati, and a host of other cities around the country.

In the case of light rail where would the tracks go? On high street or another path? If on High wouldn't the parking lanes have to be removed to make way for automobile traffic as well as the train tracks?

you can have the rail run with the the flow of traffic and only remove a few parking spots for bump outs for the streetcar.  If a streetcar eliminates several dozen cars, you have a net gain on traffic.  you could even have a streetcar be given preferential timing on 3 of 4 lights and have the stops on every fourth light.  This would allow streetcars to move quickly, but not allow traffic to go too fast.

The Mayor has asked COTA to join the effort in a more active role in seeking funding for the system.  I'm told that one reason is so that whatever streetcar system is pursued, that it be compatible with any future light rail system.  That simply makes sense as you don't want to preclude a seamless connection between the systems in the future.

 

As for where the streetcars would run, the most likely plan is to run most of High Street in the median (which is now used as turn lane for vehicular traffic.  There would still be accomodation for turn lanes.  The impact on parking should not be much of a factor, except for perhaps where High Street narrows in the Short North (north of the I-670 cap).

Something like this didn't come from the editorial board, unfortunately.

 

Trolleys worth expense

Mike Noon

Posted: 1/22/07

 

In November, the Columbus-based Downtown Streetcar Working Group released its latest update on whether to bring back streetcars to Columbus.  Minus a large public outcry or some other catastrophe, downtown Columbus looks like it will have a modern streetcar system within the next decade. 

 

This new plan has received much criticism.  Fixed-rail streetcars are expensive and inflexible.  The DSWG estimates its three proposed routes will cost between $128 and $154 million to construct and $5.8 to $6.4 million per year to operate.  The routes are short, ranging from 1.35 to 3.6 miles, and could not be easily modified in response to future city demographics.

 

http://www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2007/01/22/Opinion/Trolleys.Worth.Expense-2657236.shtml?sourcedomain=www.thelantern.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com

Wow!  A balanced, researched article!!!  Good job Lantern!

This could go in either the Cincinnati or Columbus streetcar threads. But the arguments posed here by longtime transit supporter (and conservative!) Paul Weyrich work for both...

 

______________________

 

Free Congress Foundation Commentary

 

The Next Conservatism #49: Why the Next Conservatism Should Bring Back Streetcars

By Paul M. Weyrich 

 

January 31, 2007

 

Streetcars? What could conservatism have to do with streetcars? Some of you may be wondering if I have slipped my trolley.

 

Maybe I have, but wanting to bring electric streetcars back to our cities is no sign of it. In an earlier essay on the next conservatism, number ten in this series, I argued that conservatives should want to bring our cities back. Too many of them have become cold, hard, empty places, devoid of life and unable to perform the important functions cities have in any culture. Well, it turns out that if you want to bring cities back, you also want to bring back streetcars.

 

A great new book, Street Smart: Streetcars and Cities in the 21st Century, explains why. Streetcars, it seems, are one of the most powerful tools for reviving cities. Several American cities have already brought the streetcars back, with tremendous positive effects on re-development. Kenosha, Wisconsin, brought streetcars back for just $6.2 million, and the new streetcar line has already brought $150 million in development, for a return on investment of 2,319%. Portland, Oregon, put in a downtown streetcar loop 4.8 miles long for $55 million; it generated over three billion dollars in new development. A 1.2 mile extension of the original loop brought in another $1.35 billion in development.

 

Why do streetcars bring new development? There are several reasons. First, middle-class people with significant disposable income like riding streetcars. That is not true of buses. Second, streetcars are "pedestrian facilitators." People who ride through a city on a streetcar tend to get off and on, walking for a while, then riding some more. While they are walking, they go in stores, stop in restaurants for something to eat, maybe see a movie or get tickets for a show. In other words, they spend money downtown. Middle-class pedestrians are the life blood of a city, and streetcars make it easy for them to get around.

 

Third, from a developer’s perspective, a streetcar line is a guarantee of high-quality public transportation that will be there for decades. That is not true of buses; a bus line can be here today, gone tomorrow. The investment in track and overhead wire streetcars require means their routes don't get up and move. Not surprisingly, bus service does little or nothing for development.

 

Beyond their positive effects on re-development, there is another reason the next conservatism should want to bring back streetcars, and passenger trains for that matter. Thanks to trains, streetcars, and interurbans (which were big, fast streetcars that ran from cities far out into the countryside), travel in America used to be a lot more enjoyable than it is now.

 

Today, we don't really travel. Instead, we are just packaged and shipped. That is true of air travel, which has become an ordeal, and also of much driving. One interstate highway is much like another and driving in or around cities often means getting caught in traffic congestion, which everybody hates.

 

The next conservatism's theme of Retroculture wants to bring back good things from the past that we have lost. Pleasure in travel, in the journey itself, should be one of those good things. Life is too short to make travel into misery, when it can be fun.

 

Yes, riding streetcars is fun. Our grandparents used to enjoy riding the streetcars. They have a feel to them that is completely different from a bus. You can take my word for it. I have ridden streetcars all over the world. Better, the next time you are in a city that has streetcars, or Light Rail, take a ride. You will see the city in a whole different way. And I think you will enjoy the experience.

 

A few years ago, I was in Denver with a friend, a United States Senator, who was a strong opponent of rail transit. Denver has a Light Rail system. I asked him if he would take a ride on it with me, and he agreed. About half way through our ride, he turned to me and said, "This is nice."

 

Our cities, if they are to be living cities, need streetcars. The next conservatism should work to bring the streetcars back, as one of many nice presents the past can offer the future. Resurrecting good things from the past is what conservatism should be about.

 

Paul M. Weyrich is Chairman and CEO of the Free Congress Foundation

 

 

Very cool that Weyrich refers to and quotes the new book on streetcar development by Scott Bernstein of the Center for Neighborhood Technologies.

 

Here's a link for information on the book "Street Smarts":

 

http://www.reconnectingamerica.org/html/TOD/StreetcarBook.htm

Nice article there.  It gave me reason to believe this whole country isn't screwed.

Lesson: In order to move the urban agenda forward, we must imbue it with the intoxicating perfume of profitability.

 

Columbus, by the way, excels at this.

 

I believe in streetcars.

To me, it seems that some people forgot that before cars and freeways were the norm, both conservatives and Republicans, as well as liberals and Democrats rode streetcars, trains, trolleys, buses, and so on to get to where they needed to go. I like my car and freeways, but you know what, it would be nice not to always have to take the the interstate to where you need to go!

I like my car and freeways, but you know what, it would be nice not to always have to take the the interstate to where you need to go!

 

Amen to that!  :clap: 

 

or have to navigate busy city streets when you could hop on a streetcar instead...

Columbus should look at alternatives to streetcars

Saturday, February 03, 2007

 

The recent push to install a streetcar system Downtown will serve to amplify the cowtown image of Columbus.  Columbus stands on the threshhold of either adopting the streetcar concept, which offers no advantages over the current bus system, or can make a monumental leap into the 21st century with a Downtown elevated peoplemover system that would connect all major activity centers, including residential, commercial, government and sports venues.

 

All of the potential development advantages cited by the streetcar committee also exist with an elevated people mover — in fact more so because a 3.5-mile, two-way loop Downtown ties in both ends of Downtown plus both sides of the river, not just a loop in the Arena District and possibly a yo-yo operation on High Street.

 

True, the people mover initially will cost more than a streetcar system, but the long-term operation and maintenance costs will be far less than a streetcar system.  The fully automated people-mover system would not require drivers, and basic maintenance would include cleaning the cars at night and changing rubber tires every 50,000 miles.  Very little goes wrong with electric motors from a maintenance standpoint.  Also, the system could be built in phases, if necessary.  Due to the lower operating and maintenance costs, such an elevated system has far greater potential to operate on a breakeven, if not profitable, status.

 

JAMES E. AHLSTROM, COLUMBUS

 

Full letter at http://www.dispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/2007/02/03/20070203-A13-00.html

Still more crap. Look for a response from All Aboard Ohio.

Cincinnati spent $625,000 looking at monorails and personal rapid transit to connect downtown Ohio and Kentucky. Columbus could save a lot of time by looking up the Central Area Loop Study produced by the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments.

 

It is regarded as the definitive study on elevated downtown people movers, and it finally ended any further discussion of it here. Even the proponents seemed disillusioned at the concept once all the facts came out. They've never been heard from since.

 

PRT is a total loser for downtowns. Hospitals, airports maybe. Not downtowns.

Is that study available online or do you have a link?

Is that study available online or do you have a link?

 

Here:

 

http://oki.org/transportation/centralarea.html

This guy fails to even acknowledge the incredible failure of Detroit's "People Mover", which continues to fail becasue it doesn't go anywhere anyone wants to go: no destination. 

 

He mentions the Indianapolis system.  I've ridden it and it's very nice, but the difference between it and the Detroit "Mugger Mover" is that the Indianapolis system provide point to point travel between a major hospital and a major medical school.  It carries a fair number of riders between those points, but it was (I'm told) inexpensive to build, because any time you build an elevated design, the costs also elevate.

 

I'm sure Mr. Ahlstrom is sincere in his belief, but he ignores the fact that the form of transportation that works best at attracting riders are the ones they can enter at "ground level" and takes them where they want or need to go.... not in a destination-less loop.

This guy fails to even acknowledge the incredible failure of Detroit's "People Mover", which continues to fail becasue it doesn't go anywhere anyone wants to go: no destination. 

 

Thank you. The people mover is an unmitigated disaster. This is the typical Metro-Detroiter's only exposure to rail, and a contributing reason to why rail will never, ever gain support there.

 

By the way, the term "Mugger Mover" is hateful and without merit; it assumes that a mugger would waste his time waiting around for a rider to mug.

I think he is thinking about Seattle's elevated rail line. I think it has worked there because it is connected to the Seattle Center(?) which has museums, the Space Needle, and other cultural sites.

 

Also, I looked up information on Paul Weyrich and he is the type of conservative I like! Its nice to see that there is at least one other conservative out there who believes in rail transit. Honestly, I would love to see the next Republican presidential candidate talk about improving rail transit in America and how important and vital it is to our future!

February 05, 2007 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0205/p13s01-lign.html

 

Desire grows for streetcars

Urged by mayors and advocacy groups, US cities and towns are examining the possibility of returning the forgotten vehicles to their streets.

By Cristian Lupsa | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

 

Columbus, Ohio, might not be your image of booming America, but Mayor Michael Coleman says an explosion of jobs and immigration have made it the second-fastest-growing city in the Midwest from 2000 to 2005 (after Indianapolis). Now in his second term, Mayor Coleman is determined to shape Ohio's largest urban area – once No. 3 behind Cleveland and Cincinnati – into a 21st-century city.  His plan includes a streetcar system that would connect Columbus's spread-out downtown attractions, and bring an estimated 6 to 1 return on the initial investment, according to a city-commissioned study. They are riding streetcars into the 21st century? Is this "Back to the Future"? Well, yes.

 

After Portland, Ore., launched the first modern streetcar system in 2001, cities and towns from coast to coast – impressed by the financial success of Portland's venture – have followed suit or examined the possibility of returning the forgotten vehicles to their streets. While not a solution to traffic congestion or pollution, streetcars have proved to be an attractive amenity to revitalized downtowns, encouraging street life and community, boosting development, and promoting energy-efficient transportation.

 

The reason more than 40 cities are exploring streetcars today, he says, is that all systems opened recently have produced handsome returns. According to figures from local officials and data advocacy groups:

 

• Tampa, Fla., spent more than $55 million on its system and attracted more than $1 billion in investments.

• More than 100 projects, worth around $2.5 billion, were built along the $100-million Portland line.

• The $20-million line in Little Rock, Ark., attracted about $200 million in development.

• Kenosha, Wis., with a population just shy of 100,000, built the cheapest system ($5.2 million for two miles of track). It brought in about $150 million in development.

 

Full story at http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0205/p13s01-lign.html

I know it's just a little early to talk about a post-streetcar Columbus, but let's say we have a large, up-and-running system. Is it going to go any further than that (ie light-rail lines) with the existence of an excessive amount of highways in & around downtown? I'd have to say no, as long as those are there they will be used. In fact, the last streetcar ran in September 4, 1948, which means, correct me if I'm wrong, that those streetcars & sidewalks full of people existed in an era free of highways in and around Columbus. I think they will still be successful, but it's something to consider for any future rail developments.

OMG "Back to the FUTURE?!"

 

It makes me sick hearing all of this opposition to rapid transit in this backwards country!  It's like people travel through time to another planet in another universe to get to NYC or PARIS or even Chicago to a lesser extent.  Are these subways and ELs only for tourists?  What happens in Place X stays in Place X?    I'm sure most of you feel the same way...

 

Why does EVERY article published have to mention something about the 19th century?  Who gives a f*ck if they used streetcars back then?  People walked with 2 feet back then too--why does public transportation have to be so antiquated and alienated from our daily routine?  Hell, look at all of the small European cities with rapid transit.  From London to Basel, cities big and small have this stuff.  It's cool for moms from Westlake or their counterpart in some other suburban paradise to ride the Red Line in Chicago and take their bratty girl to the American Girl Place or shop at OMG, Crate and Barrel on Michigan Ave  :-o but once they're back in the motherland, it's like that trip never happened or if it did, it's like they needed some super-duper passport to experience riding a train. 

 

There's a little joke in Cleveland saying how people in Parma think they need a passport to go to the Eastside...Well most of us NEO-ers can believe that but it seems that a lot of people in this state and the US think that certain cities are just floating in space and nothing can be taken from what they're doing or have done.  I'm not saying let's copy what a certain city is doing but we're all human and act in similar manner +/- and there is no reason why taking a train to work has to be some unfathomable nightmare.

 

I didn't know that our cities are so perfect, that by taking a "chance" on rapid transit (b/c it may not be feasible...w/e!), we might do something so terrible, it'd rip our cities apart!  That 200' wide ditch or overpass running through some neighborhood is pretty bad but a 15-20' wide track with a rather silent train passing by every 10 min. would spell armageddon.

 

This is just some general venting about the state of affairs regarding rapid transit.  Not to pick on Cbus, but so what if you were in United's Hemisphere magazine a few issues back (and this goes for all of our cities).  God only knows what the world will be like in 1, 10, 50 years but it'd be nice to think that w/e we're doing now-as in what's going on around downtown Cbus or Cleveland-might be a foundation for an even more vibrant, dynamic city.  But if we're not doing anything now to be sustainable and nuture what we really hold dear, this is all a waste. And being sustainable is more than grass on a roof.

 

If someone you know could see into the future and you asked them, "In 2020, will Cle/Cbus/or Cincy have an "adequate" rapid trans system?"  (And I think we all know what adequate means...KJP ACCEPTED! ;)), and they said "NO", I'd be afraid.  "In fact" they say, "nothing will really change between now and then." 

 

I believe there is hope and that things will change for the better or else I'd quit architecture school and open up my french bakery/cafe with real baguettes! 

 

AGAIN-this is just me venting to you all instead of talking to myself while sitting here at school, doorguarding.  None of this is personal, just b*tching about all the people we want to slap.

 

I hope this made some sense...and that some of you feel the same way I feel.

 

 

Oh, and pardon any grammatical errors...when you're excited, the words fly out.

Vive la Cleveland

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're certainly not alone. It seems like most Ohioans have never been outside of this country or even this state judging by the reactions towards mass transit. What I find even more frustrating is that our city officials seem to fall into that category. To even entertain the notion of replacing a stretch of innercity highway with a form of light-rail or making a bus-only BRT lane  on certain stretches of city highways? Craziness! What was that? Real baguettes you say?...Go with the bakery.

I agree, but keep in mind that several generations of Ohioans.... including a lot of people now in decision-making positions... have no other point of reference other than photos of the "good old days", stories from their parents or grandparents of what streetcars, interurbans and intercity passenger rail was like, or.... if they had the opportunity to experience the abysmal service Ohio has gotten from Amtrak.... a marginal recollection at best of what rail-based transportation can be.

 

That's why it's so important to get some of these initial projects like the Ohio Hub, the Columbus and Cincy streetcar proposals and other plans off the drawing board and into design and construction.  Once people can be exposed to something better and see what it's like, then they will support more and better rail service.  Ya gotta crawl before ya can walk.

I understand that, but we'll never catch up to other cities by taking baby steps. In an era of planes & globalization there is no excuse for those in power to be so out of touch with other cities here & abroad. The 2nd phase for our streetcars better be a good deal more significant.

The second phase will extend the initial Columbus Streetcar further into the near downtown areas and possibly further up High Street toward OSU, but this system should not be confused with light rail transit.  It can, however be built to be compatible with any future LRT lines that are planned and built, provided COTA ever gets its behind moving on light rail.

 

BTW: Not saying we should take "baby steps"; just that it's important to get that first streetcar or intercity passenger rail line up and running.  Once it's operating and demonstrating what it can do, history inidcates people will demand more trains and better service and the political leadesr will respond to that demand fairly quickly.  But that first system has to be done right.  You do not want to just throw trains on a track and have it be a failure.  That will kill any future rail projects before they ever get rolling. 

Oh I'm well that it's not meant to be in place of light rail. There's plenty of areas within the vicinity that the streetcars can go so that we have a comprehensive system and I wonder if there's anyplace where one could see the streetcar routes of the inner-city before they were torn out. I'm fine with a baby step, but after that I don't want to see another dinky 60-70 million dollar route (which in the case of the current one is only half the length of what it should be, ie up to OSU), I want to see one or two or three in the next phase that cost at least twice as much. As far as light-rail, streches of highways inside of 270 will have to come down 1st or else they will always be the choice mode of transport. Streetcars don't face competition from the highways, but light rail most certainly does. I'd like there to be a "Highway Improvement Act" that gets passed which actually results in tearing some of them down.  :lol:

Just a heads up...tonight at 11 on NBC4, they'll be doing a special story on the streetcar plan. 

 

I'm not expecting much, the promos I saw asked the question, "Streetcars: Good for Columbus, or a waste of millions of taxpayer dollars?  We'll get beyond the politics and explore!"  It was complete with doomsday music.

 

Then, they showed clips from some skeptical old guy and Bill Lhota.  Oy!

Oh boy. I can hardly wait. :roll:

 

Noozer is correct in that we have to crawl before we can walk. Right now Light rail, the Columbus Streetcar, Ohio Hub, Amtrak and any other rail-based service is just an abstract idea. There is nothing tangible out there for citizens, elected officials and the media to experience. That makes it very hard to promote and build any new system and very easy for naysayers to kill it. This is one reason why we see People Like Ronald Utt popping up, as he did in the article in the Other Paper. Opponents know that if they can stop a line from being built, it will be years before anything will happen.

 

However, once a system is in---even a "starter" system---support usually increases, leading to calls for more service. This is what has happened in places like St. Louis and Denver. I would expect that same thing to happen here. If we get an intial segemnt of the streetcar system running, I think it won't be long before there is a call to push lines out of downtown and into inner ring suburbs such as Bexley, Whitehall and Upper Arlington, as well as columbus neighborhoods, such as Clintonville. Opponents also know this and this is one reason why they show up at this point. They know that once a line goes in and is a success, they will have lost.

 

Still, it IS frustrating to hear all the negativity. We just have to carry on.

 

 

^ I just do not understand what you guys are talking about when one of you says something like "There is nothing tangible out there for citizens, elected officials and the media to experience." How is that possible? Am I really that out of it? I mean, is it really that uncommon to ever visit a city outside of the one in which you live, to even travel, dare I say it, out of state or even abroad? What is this, the 1700's where hardly anyone has the time or money to take a very long trip to another country and it takes several days to travel between cities by stagecoach? Seriously, what are you guys basing such statements on? Anyone who opposes rail needs to get their ass on a little vacation to a real city where all sorts of transit is available, otherwise they are basing their position on ignorance.

...Then, they showed clips from some skeptical old guy.

 

Let me guess: Reynoldsburg.

 

Anyone who opposes rail needs to get their ass on a little vacation to a real city where all sorts of transit is available, otherwise they are basing their position on ignorance.

 

But what does the rest of the world have that Reynoldsburg doesn't have?

 

Anyone who opposes rail needs to get their ass on a little vacation to a real city where all sorts of transit is available, otherwise they are basing their position on ignorance.

 

But what does the rest of the world have that Reynoldsburg doesn't have?

 

There's a Sonic in Whitehall...

 

Anyone who opposes rail needs to get their ass on a little vacation to a real city where all sorts of transit is available, otherwise they are basing their position on ignorance.

 

But what does the rest of the world have that Reynoldsburg doesn't have?

 

There's a Sonic in Whitehall...

 

Cue the doomsday music.

^ I just do not understand what you guys are talking about when one of you says something like "There is nothing tangible out there for citizens, elected officials and the media to experience." How is that possible? Am I really that out of it? I mean, is it really that uncommon to ever visit a city outside of the one in which you live, to even travel, dare I say it, out of state or even abroad? What is this, the 1700's where hardly anyone has the time or money to take a very long trip to another country and it takes several days to travel between cities by stagecoach? Seriously, what are you guys basing such statements on? Anyone who opposes rail needs to get their ass on a little vacation to a real city where all sorts of transit is available, otherwise they are basing their position on ignorance.

 

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard someone say: "Yeah, Chicago/New York/Boston/San Francisco etc. etc. have always had good transit, but we love our cars in Columbus. You can't FORCE people out of their cars."

 

What too many Ohioans don't know is that rail transit has spread to the St. Louis', Denver's, Dallas', Salt Lake City's, etc. and has attracted ridership above what was expected while bus ridership remained no worse than stable. Tell the story of those cities which have gained rail transit in the last 20 years, including how their first lines sparked a transit revolution in each city. And don't forget to add what BuckeyeB said -- the anti-rail libertarian crowd will do whatever it takes to keep rail from getting a foot in the door in any city.

Adding to what KJP says, we have to keep in mind that it is much easier to stop something than it is to get it up and running, especially if people are unfamiliar with the way it would function in their everyday lives. This is why a starter line will be the hardest fought battle. Once people see the positive impact of the streetcar, they'll want it in their neighborhood.

 

A favorite story of mine is from a few years ago, when Vancouver BC started its Skyway transit system. A stop was planned near a major downtown department store, with a connecting walkway proposed. Store managers complained that they didn't want "THOSE people" getting off at their store and stealing merchandise. So the stop went without the connecting walkway. Months later, the same management, seeing who REALLY rode (and how many) the trains, put in a connector AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE.

Yeah we need to get the message out, next time we hit a major traffic jam we can get out of our cars and pass out fliers promoting transit options and debunking myths!

^ I just do not understand what you guys are talking about when one of you says something like "There is nothing tangible out there for citizens, elected officials and the media to experience." How is that possible? Am I really that out of it? I mean, is it really that uncommon to ever visit a city outside of the one in which you live, to even travel, dare I say it, out of state or even abroad? What is this, the 1700's where hardly anyone has the time or money to take a very long trip to another country and it takes several days to travel between cities by stagecoach? Seriously, what are you guys basing such statements on? Anyone who opposes rail needs to get their ass on a little vacation to a real city where all sorts of transit is available, otherwise they are basing their position on ignorance.

 

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard someone say: "Yeah, Chicago/New York/Boston/San Francisco etc. etc. have always had good transit, but we love our cars in Columbus. You can't FORCE people out of their cars."

 

What too many Ohioans don't know is that rail transit has spread to the St. Louis', Denver's, Dallas', Salt Lake City's, etc. and has attracted ridership above what was expected while bus ridership remained no worse than stable. Tell the story of those cities which have gained rail transit in the last 20 years, including how their first lines sparked a transit revolution in each city. And don't forget to add what BuckeyeB said -- the anti-rail libertarian crowd will do whatever it takes to keep rail from getting a foot in the door in any city.

 

Who are these "someone"s that you are talking about? Have they lived in &/or visited cities where there is good mass transit or are they just giving a theoretical answer based on their perception of these cities? Which, of course, have plenty of people who love their cars and still drive them (an option for them, a necessity for many of us). I still don't know what you're basing you're statements on, as it really doesn't matter if they're specifically aware of 2nd tier cities having rail or not. If they've traveled to other cities around the country &/or the world all the convenience rail brings to a city becomes self-evident. It's difficult to believe that a vast majority of Ohioans, especially Columbusites, have never been outside of this state, which would have to be the case for people to not want rail.

That piece on NBC4 was awful. The Buckeye Institute? You've got to be shitting me.

Just once I'd like to see Sam Staley and the Buckeye Policy Institute question the spending of "tax dollars" on highway projects like the I-70 - 71 Split.  I saw the story as well, and it broke no new ground: the same libertarian think-tank drivel from Staley with nothing to back up his claims.

 

Here's the on-line version of the NBC-4 story.... you can also link to the video as well.

 

 

Downtown Streetcar Proposal Gathers Support, Critics

 

Monday, Feb 19, 2007 - 02:29 PM

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Officials have promised 3,000 new jobs, 1,500 new housing units and 300 new hotel rooms -- all as a result of a proposed downtown streetcar system.  While some city officials are in favor of the project, some transportation experts don't support the system, NBC 4's Colleen Marshall reported.

 

The streetcar system is thriving in Portland, Oregon -- and 40 other cities including Columbus are studying a return to downtown streetcars.  The new effort has critics focused after Central Ohioans have spent more than $13 million to study the feasibility of a light rail, bus rapid transit and streetcars in Columbus -- without a foot of track being laid.

 

"I just don't think that's plausible based on what we know about Columbus, as well as what's happened in other cities," said Sam Staley, of the Buckeye Institute.

 

Full story at  http://www.nbc4i.com/midwest/cmh/news.apx.-content-articles-CMH-2007-02-19-0014.html

 

 

"This is not broad based transportation solution at all. Rail only works in neighborhoods that are pretty dense," Staley said.

 

 

This, of course, explains why streetcars work so well in Portland's Pearl District, which only eight years ago had almost no one living there. Now there are 5,000 residents living in this formerly abandoned rail yard. Last weekend, I counted six tower cranes in and around the Pearl District.

 

Staley is such a hack. It's ironic to see his name in print, preceded or followed by the word "economist".

Worse yet: COTA's Bill Lhota made for such a weak counterpoint.  His responses were hardly what I would call a spirited support for the streetcar plan.

His "support" is hardly what I would call support.

Yeah, he certainly didn't do Mayor Coleman or the streetcar effort any favors with such lame remarks.

 

Ultimately however, the fault with this story lies with the basically lazy approach Colleen Marshall and her field producer took on this story.  I heard about the production of the story early on, through some ex-colleagues at NBC-4 and sent them a few names of people who could be a strong counterpoint to Sam Staley.... such as Scott Bernstein at the Center for Neighborhood Technologies (probably the nation's foremost streetcar/transit expert) and Admiral Dennis McGinn (the VP of Transportation Research at Battelle Memorial Institute and the chairman of the Columbus Downtown Streetcar Working Group).

 

Instead, we get the usual "barely scratch the surface" reporting and interviewees who hardly provided anything approaching an illuminating dialogue.  I mean, if streetcars are working in Portland, but not working so well in a place like Tampa, why didn't they spend the time and effort to go to both cities and ask why, instead of relying on an over-quoted and credibility-strained so-called "think tank" like the Buckeye Policy Institute?

 

I would strongly urge everyone who cares about this streetcar project to let NBC-4 know their effort was lame and failed to break any new ground in the discussion. Having worked in the business, one can't expect a news operation to take sides in an issue, but the least we can expect is a deeper, more thorough reporting of the facts.  Like I said, they had been working on this story for over a month and this is the best they could do?  I could have thrown this kind of story, as bad as it was, in a day!

 

Colleen Marshall's e-mail at NBC4 is [email protected]

 

The News Director is Stan Sanders: [email protected]

Yeah, he certainly didn't do Mayor Coleman or the streetcar effort any favors with such lame remarks.

 

Ultimately however, the fault with this story lies with the basically lazy approach Colleen Marshall and her field producer took on this story...we get the usual "barely scratch the surface" reporting and interviewees who hardly provided anything approaching an illuminating dialogue. 

 

We are, after all, talking about the local TV news. The only people who rely on their hometown action news squad are morons, mouthbreathers and that angry lady from Reynoldsburg.

 

Too harsh?

 

I would strongly urge everyone who cares about this streetcar project to let NBC-4 know their effort was lame and failed to break any new ground in the discussion. Having worked in the business, one can't expect a news operation to take sides in an issue, but the least we can expect is a deeper, more thorough reporting of the facts.  Like I said, they had been working on this story for over a month and this is the best they could do?  I could have thrown this kind of story, as bad as it was, in a day!

 

Colleen Marshall's e-mail at NBC4 is [email protected]

 

The News Director is Stan Sanders: [email protected]

 

Hear hear! We need to drown these slobs in a sea of facts. In addition to personal letters of protest, I suggest an Urbanohio.com Myth::Fact news bulletin faxed to the station within 36 hours. THAT sort of thing is the future of Urban Ohio, if I can muddy this thread with another: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=11988.0 

Local electronic media are always lame on this issue. It's too complicated and too lengthy of a story for local TV types to get their arms around. National networks sometimes do good stories, in part because they're based in cities where they use rail all the time. They get it.

 

Talk-radio is selling cars, trucks, tires and traffic reports. Why would they want to give people an alternative? I've had a top-rated radio jock in Cincinnati tell me exactly that.

 

Hear hear! We need to drown these slobs in a sea of facts. In addition to personal letters of protest, I suggest an Urbanohio.com Myth::Fact news bulletin faxed to the station within 36 hours. THAT sort of thing is the future of Urban Ohio, if I can muddy this thread with another: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=11988.0 

 

I like that idea!  Perhaps we can give out an honorary award for sloppy, poorly reasearched, and lazy journalism. 

I think the "Dan Rather Award for Modern-Day Journalism" has a nice ring to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather

 

Also, an "online petition" might help with all of the letter writing I've been doing and garner a larger impact response from urban ohioans to this sort of thing.  I'm thinking of a somewhat standardized response that people can click on to show thier support, or perhaps cut and paste into an email.

Local electronic media are always lame on this issue. It's too complicated and too lengthy of a story for local TV types to get their arms around. National networks sometimes do good stories, in part because they're based in cities where they use rail all the time. They get it.

 

Talk-radio is selling cars, trucks, tires and traffic reports. Why would they want to give people an alternative? I've had a top-rated radio jock in Cincinnati tell me exactly that.

 

 

That's nothing more than a media excuse.  I've seen them spend a full 2-minutes plus on so-called "news-you-can-use" stories that do nothing more than show great insight into the obvious.

 

What it is really about is that local TV news is no longer about journalism (and it DID used to be) as much as it about being a "profit center" that turns out as many news "widgets" as possible to fill the huge chunks of time the stations set aside for news.  How can they say they don't have the time to tell a story when they run consecutive half-hour news blocks from 5:00 PM until 6:30 PM... and that doesn't count similar blocks of news in the early morning (usually around two hours or more), another half hour at noon and sometimes a full hour, and then a half-hour at 11:00 PM?  Not enough time?  Rubbish.

 

It's just pure laziness.

 

The NBC4 story failed to tell anyone anything new about the streetcar plan.  All it did was set the premise that sonehow "Are taxpayer dollars being wasted?" ... and then set up a weak mini-debate between a critic whose views are well-known and often factually-challenged and a transit authority CEO who can't even get people excited about riding his own buses.

 

Whatever this was, it wasn't journalism.  It was more fluff to fill air time in a news block that ultimately had little news.

 

 

Interesting to me how naysayers like Sam "the sham" Staley gets quoted at length, while supporters get no coverage at all (I would not call Lhota a supporter). Junk journalism? Lazy journalism? These media types could easily get in touch with those of us who do support the streetcar for a FAIR and BALANCED story, but no, we continue to hear mostly one side.

 

Coincidence? I doubt it. :shoot: