I can certainly understand your criticism of the Dispatch.  Especially in the past, they have not been the most progressive paper in Ohio.  But I think they are genuinely making a good effort to bring the facts of streetcars to the general public. 

 

Keep in mind that they are publishing for a wide audience and some of their wording choices and examples are not what we in a narrower, more advocate forum (like UrbanOhio) would choose.  This large Sunday spread and the Columbus Alive article (also owned by the Dispatch) are a great step forward in educating central Ohio on the streetcar issue.

My near hatred of the Dispatch may have clouded my judgement of the entire article.  Sorry.

Actually there's nothing wrong with having a healthy skepticism regarding the Dispatch on urban issues.  Although I think most mainstream media doesn't really "get" alot of these urban issues.  Today, they're not so much anti-urban as simply uninformed.

I'm glad it will be able to adapt to the Arches of the Short North.

I was VERY impressed last weekend when I went downtown and saw the Gay Street Condos. I can imagine more of that kind of development taking place downtown with the streetcar being built. I would love to see that.

I live in Nashville, TN.  I was born in Riverside Hospital and raised outside Columbus.

 

In the next few years I would like to move back to Columbus and open a sustainable business along the proposed streetcar corridor.  If the streetcar doesn't happen, it will be a big discouragement to me not following through on my dream.

 

I would like to believe that there are more people like me "out there" who are no longer in-state because of better economic prospects in other places, but hoping to "come back home." 

 

Who can I write within the city government to voice my opinion?

You want to send a letter to Mayor Michael Coleman at City Hall.  If you Google the City of Columbus website, that has all of the contact info.

From the Cincy streetcars thread.....

 

Last Updated: 5:27 pm | Tuesday, June 10, 2008

Cities testify: Streetcars work

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080610/NEWS01/306100123

 

.....The panelists struggled to explain why streetcars attract more riders than buses. Johnsen cited a Tacoma, Wash. bus line that carried 175,000 people a year was replaced by a streetcar, and ridership jumped to 800,000 a year.

 

“It’s the magic of an urban experience that goes beyond a diesel-burning bus,” Villines said.

It is a classic example about how rail powerfully draws new riders to transit that otherwise would not get on board a bus.

So exactly when is this streetcar network gonna be built?

As I recall, if the funding is in place and engineering is done, it would take roughly a year to 18 months to get the initial line up and running.

As I recall, if the funding is in place and engineering is done, it would take roughly a year to 18 months to get the initial line up and running.

Thanks

I seriously doubt that you still huge increases in transit simply by switching from bus to rail.  You can bet your bottom dollar that there was more than a vehicle shift, including:

 

- Turning the bus system into a feeder for rail

- Increased capacity

- Shorter headways

- Inclusion of signal pre-emption or other technologies

- Better maintenance and cleanliness of the rail

 

Also, how long is it sustained over the long term and what does it cost.

 

Even in Chicago, with its extensive and famed L system, the bus system actually carries more riders.  And often the bus service provides better door to door times.

 

There are a heckuva lot of pages in this thread and I didn't see it in the last few.  Is there a map of the proposed route posted?

 

Is this going to be a city-funded project, assuming it gets approved?

 

 

This link should help.

 

http://downtowncolumbus.com/development/streetcar.php

thanks

I would also check the financial plan on that website, it has a more up to date map with a proposed combined route that covers more than the original red. 

 

Is the street car engineering proposal still unofficially tabled by the council?  I have come to appreciate the street car a bit more over time, although I am still skeptical about the impact in Columbus, and would love the engineering study to move through.  However the cost is about $2 million and no one is willing to fund this incredibly expensive study.

 

Personally I think they are displaying the proposed funding plan completely wrong.  Tossing out a lump sum for the first ten years is throwing people into an anti-street car mode.  Listing the street car with its per year funding I think would be more acceptable.  I beleive it would be around 14 million a year and that is with extra funds to compensate for raising prices.

 

Also, for those avid supporters do not be put off by the time it is taking.  It took Phoenix, AZ nearly 25 years to finally get their light rail off the ground this year after alot of work was done decades ago.  Perseverance paid off.

Engineering typically costs 10-15 percent of a project's estimated capital cost. So this engineering study is actually quite affordable.

 

Phoenix is just one of many cities which has been talking trains and transit for decades. Ohio has been talking intercity passenger trains in the 3-C Corridor for 30+ years and Cleveland proposed a major transit investment in the Euclid Corridor starting about 1900. Much of that discussion over the 20th century was for a subway, but it took 100 years to get a bus rapid transit. And there are freeways proposed and planned in Cleveland that will never be built as they have been taken off the MPO's long range plans. Every city/state has their long-standing projects, yet every city seems to act as if there's something wrong with their project or city because the project can't get going. Take heart! You're not alone!

Five days with no activity on this thread, should we start collecting donations to fund the engineering project? :D

Not exactly in-depth reporting, but this snippet from Channel 4 news last night is food for thought:

 

http://www.nbc4i.com/midwest/cmh/news.apx.-content-articles-CMH-2008-06-24-0048.html

 

By Jason Mays

COLUMBUS, Ohio - - At Columbus City Council tonight, there was a discussion about street car standards versus light rail standards and the best way to go about it.

   

According to the experts - a light rail system would be effective for longer trips, for example from Polaris to Downtown. However, streetcars, which are cheaper, could not support a light rail system. But on the flip side, a light rail system could support street cars and provide room for expansio

And a streetcar CAN support a light-rail system. Tell Jason Mays to do more research.

The problem here is that reporting on the Columbus streetcar plan has been abysmal. Very few stories at all, and most of what has been written does not seem to be biased one way or another, but is superficial. I'm amazed not only at the questions that haven't been answered, but at the ones that haven't even been asked.

 

Can any streetcar tracks support light rail? Or do they have to be to certain specs to support light rail? Will the Columbus line meet those specs? I have asked people in Columbus who I thought would be in a position to know, but they didn't.

 

Clearly, Columbus (like most large cities) needs a regional rail system and expanded transit network more than it needs a trolley up and down a portion of High Street. The question is: could this proposed line be integrated -- from the standpoint of engineering, financing and ease-of-use -- with a broader rail system?

 

I'm putting together a list of FUQ -- Frequently Unasked Questions.

It is entirely a matter of what kind of base is underneath the rails.  Streetcars are the lightest weight, so the base doesn't need to go as deep or be as strong as would be needed for the (uh....heavier) light rail cars.  Consequently, construction for a streetcar line is slightly less involved and less expensive.

 

Light rail trains can and do run on streetcar tracks and vice-versa.  It is very frustrating to see public officials haggling over points like this when the more important task is making the decision to move ahead with building a system..... which would include developing the standards by which it would be built.

 

We need streetcars and light rail sooner and not later.  This kind of needless debate by the City Council only serves to delay the day for no good reason.

Not exactly in-depth reporting, but this snippet from Channel 4 news last night is food for thought:

 

http://www.nbc4i.com/midwest/cmh/news.apx.-content-articles-CMH-2008-06-24-0048.html

 

By Jason Mays

COLUMBUS, Ohio - - At Columbus City Council tonight, there was a discussion about street car standards versus light rail standards and the best way to go about it.

 

According to the experts - a light rail system would be effective for longer trips, for example from Polaris to Downtown. However, streetcars, which are cheaper, could not support a light rail system. But on the flip side, a light rail system could support street cars and provide room for expansio

 

This confuses me.  Maybe I've had too long of a day at work. 

It is entirely a matter of what kind of base is underneath the rails. Streetcars are the lightest weight, so the base doesn't need to go as deep or be as strong as would be needed for the (uh....heavier) light rail cars. Consequently, construction for a streetcar line is slightly less involved and less expensive.

 

Light rail trains can and do run on streetcar tracks and vice-versa. It is very frustrating to see public officials haggling over points like this when the more important task is making the decision to move ahead with building a system..... which would include developing the standards by which it would be built.

 

We need streetcars and light rail sooner and not later. This kind of needless debate by the City Council only serves to delay the day for no good reason.

 

I have to disagree. This is not haggling: This is fundamental planning and policy. Will this investment of up to $140 million in a major public thoroughfare be able to accommodate and work in tandem with an eventual regional light-rail system? What is its purpose?

 

If the streetcar plan in inconsistent with the prospect of other light-rail lines downtown, I cannot support it.

Didn't say that.  I just meant that people are making a bigger deal about it than it needs to be. I'm involved in transportation plans like this everyday and plans are modified and changed even as construction is underway.  My point is that City Council needs to move forward with funding.  They can always stipulate that a streetcar line needs to be compatible with light rail.  It just isn't that difficult to do.

My point is that if I were on City Council, I would not vote to go forward with funding until I knew that the streetcar line would be compatible with light rail. I think that is THE most fundamental question about this whole plan. To support funding and then go back years later to upgrade would be a frightening waste of money. Yes, we need to get rail in Columbus and we need to do it soon. But we need to do it right.

I understand what you're saying and I don't disagree.  What I am saying is that the City Council could approve funding for this tomorrow with the stipulation that the system be built to be compatible with any future light rail.  If it's mandated as a provision of the funding agreement, it gets done.

 

But what's going on in City Council amounts to political gamesmanship between them and the Mayor.  Both sides need to cut the crap and get this system funded so engineering (including light rail compatibility) and construction can begin.  Delay doesn't just cost time... it costs dollars.  And you can bet those dollar costs will grow with the passage of more time and hot air.

 

Absoluetly, let's do it right.  But let's do it.

Well I think that the support for the Street Car from the public has been fairly quiet.  I am not saying the support isn't there it's just that it does not seem organized.  I know there is a street car support group (http://columbus-streetcars.com/) but I am unaware if they have called for any public "outcry". 

 

I wonder if an organized writing letter effort would have any effect? 

This month's Columbus Monthly (July 2008 issue) has an article on the downtown streetcar issue.  But CM doesn't put anything online.  So here's an image of the cover from the www.columbusmonthly.com website.  Also the article title and very brief synopsis of the article from the website.

 

 

All aboard to . . . where?

by Jared Klaus

After a skeptical public and two City Council members put the brakes on Mike Coleman’s grand plan for a streetcar system, the mayor is retooling his sales pitch to try to close the deal.

 

 

After a skeptical public and two City Council members put the brakes on Mike Coleman’s grand plan for a streetcar system, the mayor is retooling his sales pitch to try to close the deal.

Good because I don't want the deal to fall through!

CMC Forum July 16 - "A Desire Named Streetcar" Right Track or Wrong Turn

Start  July 16, 2008 

  12:00 PM 

End 01:15 PM 

Location  Athletic Club of Columbus, 136 E. Broad Street 

 

Registration details at:

http://www.columbusmetroclub.org/Default.aspx?pageId=49313&eventId=16874&EventViewMode=2

 

 

 

Grilling Weiler could be a lot of fun.  Talk about an obvious conflict of interest!

 

Too bad that they charge admission to listen to people have a discussion.

CMC Forum July 16 - "A Desire Named Streetcar" Right Track or Wrong Turn

Start  July 16, 2008 

  12:00 PM 

End 01:15 PM 

Location  Athletic Club of Columbus, 136 E. Broad Street 

 

Registration details at:

http://www.columbusmetroclub.org/Default.aspx?pageId=49313&eventId=16874&EventViewMode=2

 

 

It must genetically impossible for headline writers to mention "streetcars" without somewhere mentioning "desire".  I like Tennessee Williams too, but come on already.  :wink:  Also "Right Track" or "Right Turn" - the puns just keep on coming!

 

But seriously, it is great that the Metro Club is keeping the streetcar issue alive.  And thanks for posting the notice Noozer.

 

 

Will it be televised?

Ohio Public Television usually records all of the CMC forums for later broadcast on the Ohio Channel, which Time-Warner and other cable systems carry.

 

Link: http://www.ohiochannel.org/

Grilling Weiler could be a lot of fun.  Talk about an obvious conflict of interest!

 

Too bad that they charge admission to listen to people have a discussion.

 

The admission is for the lunch. But it also helps with the costs of securing a place, occasionally toward travel costs for speakers, etc. Columbus Metropolitan Club tends to have good meals and great speakers and the chance to meet the speakers and talk to other members and guests afterward.

I've been to several forums and it is never dull. Scott Bernstein will eat Bob Weiler alive (verbally).

For now, streetcar proposal is off-line

Funding worries send mayor's plan back for revision

Thursday, July 10, 2008 - 11:33 PM

By Robert Vitale

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Faced with a City Council that's nervous about the cost, Mayor Michael B. Coleman's administration is retooling its plan for streetcars in Columbus.  He's not giving up on the idea, though.  Spokesman Dan Williamson said changes in the works are “not in terms of whether, but how.”

 

Money is the issue.  A financing plan offered in March relies on the city's general fund for more than a quarter of its $103 million total.  That makes council members skittish because Columbus already faces a $75 million general-fund deficit projected for 2009.  A revised funding plan will take another six to eight months, said Mike Brown, Coleman's urban ventures coordinator.  The delay means streetcars likely wouldn't make their debut during the city's bicentennial in 2012.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/07/10/streetcar.html?sid=101

Well gee...I hope we'll be ready to take the first step in 2014.

 

This is embarassing.

From here: http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15341&start=22

 

Media vs. Reality on Streetcar Status

 

    Not that I’ll ever say there’s any way to capture reality 100%, but the article in the Dispatch is a bit misleading. Some things we discussed with the reporter yesterday that were not necessarily reflected:

 

    1. Streetcars are a piece of a broader regional system that we need to start planning for today. The City, MORPC and COTA have been in talks for some time about how to officially take this conversation to the next level with the public, and we need as much public support as possible. The disagreement is generally between people who believe we should hold off on phase 1 (streetcars) or go ahead and get construction going while we enter what could be a multi-year debate on how to pay for the heavier light rail, and exactly where the lines go. In the end, we believe there will be a modern streetcar line built on High Street either way that integrates with Light Rail, cars and buses. The variable is when we get it built… by 2012/2013 or much later. We don’t think we should wait.

 

    For those who’ve actually read our research and policy papers instead of just the paper, you know we’ve been talking about how this streetcar needs to be planned for and integrated into a broader regional transportation plan with bikes, buses, high-speed rail and light rail for a long time.

 

    2. We are a very fiscally conservative City, and it is good for Council to reflect that, we respect their oversight and have listened to their concerns. With the changes coming in Washington and the growing national interest in rail, we believe the time is right to get Columbus at the table for future Federal funding, and this may relieve the pressure on our General Fund.

    We believe the Federal Government is about to make a major change in strategy on highways vs. rail, and we will be stepping up efforts to address that through the contract we’re about to put forward.

 

    The problem, no matter who is President, is that they’re going to want to see a City with a credible plan and money on the table to get started when they rank where their investment will go. Columbus needs to keep our process going, or risk falling further behind other cities on this potential funding stream. We are ranked last for big cities when it comes to rail and transit, and we’re the biggest city with no rail in the US. We need to break some old habits here and show that our community is ready to deal with transportation more holistically.

 

    3. Our team at the City, with COTA, MORPC and others have been continuing our outreach (as promised) to get input and answer some of the tough questions after the hearings earlier this year, and we’re putting together a plan to update and finish the financing plan based on the input we’re getting from small and large businesses and residents. (Thank you to everyone who has hosted a meeting!) The legislation to fund this next step should be ready in a week or two. This is hardly on the shelf, and the D’s wording is unfortunately misleading.

 

    One of the Mayor and our team’s goals starting several years ago was to stir the pot of the transit debate with these concepts and plans, and we’ve been very successful in that. Even if everyone on CU has a different opinion on exactly how this should work, the excellent thing is that the debate is going on at a broader level than at any time in 10 years in Columbus. Thank you all for being a part of that.

 

I think the mayor made a huge mistake when he left the council meeting when council members balked a couple months ago. He should have changed his plans and stuck around to listen to critics. Then he should have clearly and publicly responded. I know the Columbus media are doing an absolutely abysmal job of covering this issue, but if the bigger picture of streetcars as a first leg of a regional system is not getting out, that is the mayor's fault, more than any one person. He needs to get out front and hammer away at that point until the media take notice. He needs to control the message, but he's failing to do so and is perceived as having a bunker mentality.

We should use this to our advantage and push to make more of our urban streets bike-friendly to make it easy and safe to travel around in and to our various neighborhoods using Gay St as an example for Downtown and commercial streets in surrounding neighborhoods along with Neil (the addition of speed humps before the medians would dissuade cars from trying to pass us cyclists) as an example for major streets in residential neighborhoods. We should be aim to be the most bike-friendly city by 2012 and we can do it without resorting to bike-lanes. We probably won't though, cars are more important than people.

I think the mayor made a huge mistake when he left the council meeting when council members balked a couple months ago. He should have changed his plans and stuck around to listen to critics. Then he should have clearly and publicly responded.

 

The mayor has had dozens of public meetings before and after City Council called that meeting that you're referring to so that THEY could hear comments from the public. That was not the mayor's meeting, and there was really no reason for him to be there at all.

 

Do not do our City Council a disservice by trying to make the mayor a more important figure at their meeting.

I maintain that the mayor made a big mistake. First off, almost everybody I've talked to about this feels that he left in a huff. And as a politician, he should know that perceptions matter in politics. Second of all, even if this was not his meeting, the streetcar plan is HIS proposal -- his to push and his to sell. By leaving and not listening to critics, he leaves himself vulnerable to perceptions that he was pouting. Maybe he is out talking to a lot of groups. But is he really communicating? Getting the message out? I don't think so. I don't think he's hammering hard enough on this.

From Columbus Dispatch reporter Tim Doulin's "Cranky Commuter" blog....

 

Streetcar stalled

Plans for a Downtown streetcar line have hit a snag.

 

Gee, what a surprise.  In keeping with Columbus’ proud tradition of not getting it done when it comes to anything that has to do with rail, the mayor is going to retool the streetcar plan because city council allegedly is nervous about the cost.  With gas at $4 a gallon and people looking for alternative modes of transportation, and you still can't commit to a 2.8-mile streetcar line that might lead to something broader in the future?

 

Maybe the streetcar will be salvaged, but the feet-of-clay rumblings has a familiar ring.  See any number of plans in the last 20 years to get light rail in greater Columbus that were quietly put on the back burner, never to be heard from again.  COTA put the last one on the shelf about two years ago.  It hasn’t been heard from since.

 

Cleveland may be decaying but at least it has decent bus and rail systems.  Meanwhile back in the All-American City, Columbus is reworking its bike code.  Councilwoman Charleta B. Tavares introduced a proposal that – among other things – would lift Columbus’ ban on riding on sidewalks.  That’s a real good idea.  Bikes will be crashing into pedestrians on sidewalks, but the important thing is to preserve the streets for cars.  And after all, in Columbus, it’s all about the car.

 

More at http://blog.dispatch.com/commuter/

Ok, Cleveland was decaying back in the 70s/80s

 

We're blossoming now!

Yea, Tim Doulin actually won the Pulitzer for "Damning with Faint Praise" last year.  :wink:

Actually, I was stunned by the blog. The Dispatch doesn't go much for sarcasm, or commentary. And as much as I've been critical of his and the Dispatch's poor coverage of transit issues, Tim's entry is pro-transit and tells it like it is: There has been a woeful lack of leadership on transit and rail in central Ohio.

I'm on the committee that's been planning the Columbus Metropolitan Club forum on the streetcar, but will be unable to attend. Unfortunately, I'll be out of town. But I think it will be a good debate. Since I can't attend and won't be able to ask questions, I'll just post some of my questions here.

 

The streetcar plan called for a 2.8-mile line from Campus to the Courthouse, funded by parking fees and special assessments in areas served by the lines. It is separate from COTA.

 

Some opponents of the line argue that it goes nowhere, and that Columbus and the region should instead focus on a broader transit effort that runs throughout the city and suburbs. That is what COTA's 13-mile North Corridor plan was the first leg of: a regional system of expanded bus service connecting the the North Corridor light rail and subsequent rail lines, funded by a countywide (or regional) additional sales tax.

 

Here's the FUQ (Frequently Unasked Questions):

 

* If I take COTA's High Street bus from Clintonville to OSU, will I be able to switch to the city's streetcar? Or will I have to pay a separate fare? Will COTA's three bus lines serving High Street between Campus and the Courthouse continue that service alongside a streetcar that plies the same route, or will the buses be rerouted?

 

* If COTA, or the city, builds a regional rail system, will the streetcar tracks accommodate light-rail trains from those lines? Or will they have to build additional new track?

 

* If the city sticks with parking and assessment fees to fund construction and operation of the initial streetcar line, will additional regional light-rail lines be funded through the same mechanism? Or will they be funded by the sales tax? If there are different funding structures for the lines, will they be able to operate together? If the city operates the streetcar and COTA operates the regional light-rail system, will the two systems be able to link up? Will a pass or ticket on one be accepted by the other?

 

* Planners say the streetcar line would operate 17 hours per day. Which 17 hours? If the line is to serve downtown commuters, would it start at 6 or 7 a.m.? If it starts early and operates for 17 hours, would service end at 11 p.m. or midnight – several hours before downtown and campus nightspots close? If it operates late enough to serve bar patrons (say, 3 a.m.), would operation halt until 10 a.m., after the morning rush hour for commuters?