metropolitan club debate

Does Columbus desire streetcars?

Panelists split over needs vs. wants

Thursday,  July 17, 2008 3:24 AM

By Tim Doulin

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

While city officials retool their proposal for a Downtown streetcar line, the debate over whether the city needs one continued yesterday.  But the discussion at a Metropolitan Club luncheon at the Athletic Club of Columbus didn't come any closer to resolving the question.  With rising energy costs, the time is right for a $103 million, 2.8-mile streetcar line on High Street from Downtown to the Ohio State University campus area, proponents said.  "We need a more balanced and diversified transportation system for this region to grow," said Chester Jourdan, Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission executive director, one of two proponents on a panel.

 

Developer Robert Weiler, a COTA board member who said he was speaking on his own behalf, not on behalf of COTA, led the debate against a streetcar, saying Columbus already has a fabulous rapid-transit system.  "It's called the freeway," Weiler said.  Columbus doesn't have severe traffic congestion like most major cities, he said.  And the projected economic benefits of the streetcar are overstated.

 

Full story at http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/07/17/StreetcarTalk.ART_ART_07-17-08_B3_S3AP9UD.html?sid=101

Wow. Robert Weiler is absolutely clueless.

A revised funding plan will take another six to eight months, said Mike Brown, Coleman's urban ventures coordinator.  The delay means streetcars likely wouldn't make their debut during the city's bicentennial in 2012.

 

With this said, what is a realistic time line for Columbus streetcars (i.e. when can I hop on and ride one)?

The irony with Robert Weiler is that he was appointed to the COTA board by Mayor Coleman.  Clueless doesn't begin to describe him.  The man is a dinosaur in his attitude toward transit.  He should be replaced on the COTA board.

 

Time line?  If the funding is made available (as I understand it) we could see streetcars running in under two years.

^Could you clarify that for me.  The article mentions that they may not be able to meet their initial target date which is more than two years away.  If the target date is further out than 2 years than how can you say under 2 years?  Additionally, is there anything in motion that could provide the funding and allow this project to meet or finish earlier than its target date in 2012?

 

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just curious and I haven't been up to speed on the Cbus streetcar efforts.  Many of these same issues with time line and funding are facing the Cincinnati effort.

You're not being a jerk at all.  Quite the contrary.  These are good questions.

 

The 2-year timeline doesn't necessarily lengthen with the passage of time.  However, delay in funding almost always increases the costs.  (Consider what the rising costs of steel and concrete have done on the highway side).  You base your timeline on when the funding is made available.

 

As for any kind of fuinding option in "motion", there is a lot of legislation moving in Washington for both rail & transit that could change the game for the better.  What we really need now is some kind of movement within our own legislature to develop funding sources for projects like this.

Starting to see a "dump Weiler" movement getting underway on the Columbus Undergroud site: http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/portal.php

Will it be televised?

Ohio Public Television usually records all of the CMC forums for later broadcast on the Ohio Channel, which Time-Warner and other cable systems carry.

 

It is also video archived on the Columbus Metropolitan Club's website at http://www.columbusmetroclub.org/Default.aspx?pageId=170342.

 

 

Starting to see a "dump Weiler" movement getting underway on the Columbus Undergroud site: http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/portal.php

 

Here's a link to the actual thread:

 

http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15447

 

Quite the heated debate. I've heard some rumblings from others that Weiler needs to go. ;)

Heard that voiced by some contacts of mine with MORPC as well.  Everyone is shaking their heads over why this guy is still allowed to sit on the COTA Board.

Columbus City Council heard a first reading tonight of a request by Mayor Coleman to extend a consultant's cointract on the streetcar project, but the statement made in the Mayor's request is actually bigger news than the request itself.  It calls for an extensive, integrated rail-based transportation system for Columbus including streetcars, light rail and connections for intercity passenger rail.

 

The statement is in the attached pdf courtesy of Columbus Underground:

 

http://www.columbusunderground.com/archives/streetcar_memo_7_21.pdf

Letter to the editor in this morning's Dispatch:

 

Weiler doesn't belong on COTA board

Wednesday,  July 23, 2008 3:18 AM

 

As a taxpayer in Franklin County, a resident of Columbus and someone who cares about the future of central Ohio, I am appalled by the recent public comments made by COTA board member Robert Weiler.

 

At a recent Columbus Metropolitan Club luncheon, he made disparaging comments about mass transit and lauded freeways as being a fine solution. While such retrograde thinking is surprising for a member of the board charged with anticipating transportation needs and meeting them, I am upset that Weiler makes public comments identifying himself as a COTA board member and then says he is not speaking in that capacity.

 

If he wishes to speak as a developer whose interests might well be negatively affected by inner-city transportation like a streetcar, then he should step forth and say, "I am Robert Weiler, and I oppose the streetcar because it won't benefit me."

 

As a subsidizer of COTA and resident of central Ohio, I ask that Weiler be removed from the board of COTA and replaced with someone who is able to separate his own interests from his role on the COTA board.

 

ANDREW HALL

Columbus

 

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2008/07/23/Hall_ART_07-23-08_A6_KFAQMSE.html?sid=101

I was just simply stunned by Bob Weiler's comments about COTA.  He seems so clueless about how the system works and about public transit in general.  I think his money glasses are blinding his view of reality.  His comment of the highway being the mass transit system literally made me want to leap through my computer screen, travel back in time, and hit him in the head.  He railed against the street car using a mediocre argument about COTA's service and our current highway system.  He apparently is oblivious to the impact that the gas prices and inflation are having on individual and household incomes.  I guess he doesn't like people to have extra spending money to pump into the local economy, he'd rather have us pour money into gas and watch it trail out overseas and into other states.

 

I work for COTA and am embarassed due to Bob Weiler's comments.

He doesn't seem to get that if people are pumping more of their dollars into their gas tanks, that's fewer $$$ they can spend at his suburban malls. The man has the vision of a blind cave lizard. I used to work at COTA and I share the embarassment.  I still can't fathom why Mayor Coleman appointed him in the first place; even more so now that Weiler is speaking out against one of the Mayor's most high-profile initiatives. :? :wtf:

 

I hope the Mayor saw Andrew Hall's letter to the editor.

I dunno.

 

Sitting up there in his $200 shirt and his $2,000 suit, with his smug and arrogant vision of the no-problems world of the Fifties, Weiler may have helped the streetcar more than he hurt it. People understand and retain what they see more than what they hear, and, to me, he came off as a know-it-all firmly rooted in the past.

 

Scott Bernstein, by comparison, was terrific -- informed, personable, engaging ... someone with a command of what's happening in forward-looking cities around the country.

 

And what's Jim Coleman's problem?

 

From an outsider's perspective, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

Jim Coleman isn't really anti-streetcar... he just wants something bigger and more comprehensive...light rail.  If a streetcar appeared in his German Village neighborhood tomorrow, he'd probably be riding it.

 

You pegged Weiler: an arrogant blast from the past who doesn't realize his 15 minutes are up.

You know I think businesses need to step up and help fund some cheaper forms of transportation.  If they want people to spend their money in a time of shrinking spending cash then they need to make sure people don't spend so much on other goods.

 

Suburbs and their businesses need to step up to the plate and fund cheap transportation and better zoning/building codes to encourage less spending on transportation and city services (e.g. the less curbs in a housing development the less money the city has to spend on upkeep).  It really pisses me off that most citizens, local governments, and businesses sit around slackjawed and constantly complain as if they were not a major cause of the problem. (of course I am aiming this at suburbs).  If Columbus wants a healtheir economy it needs better transportation options.

City OKs streetcar study

Council looks into practicality of Coleman's financial plan

Tuesday,  July 29, 2008 3:12 AM

By Robert Vitale

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Columbus will continue to study streetcars, but consultants also will begin examining how the 2.8-mile line envisioned by Mayor Michael B. Coleman could become part of a regional rail system.  City Council members gave their OK last night to a $300,000 contract extension for streetcar consultant HDR Inc., which already has been asked to revamp the financing plan for Coleman's $103 million proposal.

 

Supporters said HDR will look as well at how streetcars would coexist with buses along the proposed High Street route and how they would fit into commuter-rail plans that are resurfacing a decade after central Ohio voters rejected the idea.  "It is a local conversation. It is a regional conversation," said Chester Jourdan, executive director of the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission, which has promised $20 million for streetcars.

 

Full story at http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/07/29/council29.ART_ART_07-29-08_B1_ASASCLQ.html?sid=101

This seems like good news.  At least it is some progress toward something in the future, be it streetcar or light rail. 

 

At the very least it is good news for the consultants who will be getting paid.  :wink:

<b>Euclid Avenue vs. High Street: Why the Streetcar Would Work</b>

 

I was recently in Cleveland for two days for a Transportation Research Board workshop to view its new Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) line first-hand. I came away very impressed with what Cleveland has done, and I couldn’t help thinking about the similarities to what Columbus is trying to do with the streetcar.

 

Much more here: http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/euclid-avenue-vs-high-street-why-the-streetcar-would-work/

From here: http://walker.columbusunderground.com/?p=791

 

<b>Is Columbus the only city planning for Streetcars?</b>

 

Hardly.

 

Some US cities already have them, and many more are planning to add them.

 

A few are historic systems like what you can find in New Orleans, San Francisco, and Philadelphia. Most cities have completely removed their historic systems, as Columbus did, and their historic systems have been long since abandoned.

 

Some cities (Portland, Kenosha, etc) have recently brought them back in a more modern version that run more efficiently, smoothly, and quietly. Which is what Columbus wants to do.

 

I've been keeping tabs lately on some of the development news coming out of some of these cities that are exploring the possibilities of Streetcars. Some cities face similar issues as Columbus (funding, perception), while others seem to be examples to learn from.

 

Anyway, here's the big list below. I'll come back and add to it later on. Feel free to post info in the comments below, and I'll update the list as well. Keep in mind that this is specifically about Streetcars, and doesn't include plans for Light Rail or Regional Passenger Rail. That's an even bigger can of worms for another day.

 

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14238">Grand Rapids Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15637">Austin Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14207">Salt Lake City Rail News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15551">Lancaster, PA Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14908">Washington DC Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15552">Sacramento Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14909">Fort Worth Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14621">Boise Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15345">Albuquerque Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14430">Tucson Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13999">Birmingham Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14239">Milwaukee Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15018">Chicago Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15000">New Orleans Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14735">Dallas Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14910">Charlottesville Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13747">Cincinnati Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14346">Kansas City Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14002">Charlotte Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14000">Omaha Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14321">Jacksonville Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14001">Los Angeles Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14237">Missoula Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14160">Orange County Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13998">Seattle Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14009">Everett Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14004">Fort Lauderdale Streetcar News</a>

<a href="http://www.columbusunderground.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14003">Portland Streetcar News</a>

 

Did I miss any?

:-o  ^ If you missed any cities, I certainly can't tell!

EDITORIAL

 

Are we going back to the future on streetcars?

By Dayton Daily News

Saturday, August 16, 2008

 

Streetcars have been getting a lot of attention in both Columbus and Cincinnati.  Mayors of both cities have been pushing specific projects.  They've generated support and skepticism.  Streetcars are train-like, mass-transit vehicles that ride on street-level rails; the power comes from overhead electrical lines.

 

Surprisingly enough, $4 gas is not the force behind the two proposals. Both mayors, to their credit, were at work long before that threshold was crossed.  Clearly, though, high gas prices generally are at the heart of this matter and are responsible for much of the support the proposals get.  There happen to be other cases for streetcars. In Columbus, the plan is for rides up High Street from downtown, through the Near North entertainment district to Ohio State University.  Some people think that a lot of people — including tourists — would take that ride, even if they'd never think about getting on a bus.

 

Find this article at:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/oh/story/opinions/editorial/2008/08/16/ddn081608streetcarsxxmg.html 

 

Cincinnati report uplifting for streetcar backers

Progress in other cities worth noting, expert says

Thursday,  August 28, 2008 3:40 AM

By Robert Vitale

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Streetcar backers in Cincinnati are realistic when they predict hundreds of millions of dollars in development along the proposed line, an independent researcher said yesterday.  Streetcar backers in Columbus, who've been pressed for more evidence to back their own sunny projections, say the conclusions of a University of Cincinnati economics expert are relevant here, too.

 

HDR Inc., a Nebraska-based consulting firm that has advised Cincinnati, Columbus and other cities across the country, predicted $379 million in economic-development benefits along a 4-mile line between Cincinnati's Over-the-Rhine neighborhood and downtown.  George Vredeveld, director of the University of Cincinnati Economics Center for Education & Research, said in a report released yesterday that Cincinnati's predictions are credible, reasonable and "in the ballpark."  "Even though we cannot be certain how much development will occur, the experiences of other cities provides strong evidence that economic development will be substantial," the report said.

 

Full story at

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/08/28/studystudy.ART_ART_08-28-08_B2_36B5JCJ.html?sid=101

that is more coverage than the enquirer has given the study

It's not about Columbus or Cincy...but it does show some interesting parallels from "back in the day" and today.

 

September 14, 2008

 

Virgil Stanfield:

With soaring gas prices, maybe streetcars are the way to go

 

By VIRGIL A. STANFIELD

News Journal

 

Editor's Note: Gasoline prices well above $3.75 per gallon may have some area residents longing for the days of streetcars and trolleys. This column by the late Virgil A. Stanfield, a former News Journal managing editor, was published Oct. 31, 1943, in the midst of gasoline and tire rationing during World War II.

 

MANSFIELD -- The gasoline and tire famine must be making a lot of Mansfielders recall how handy it was to be able to ride downtown on a streetcar, or to Shelby, Ashland or Bucyrus on the trolley.  That was only 10 years ago, but it seems like it all happened in another generation.  It marked the end of an "electric era" in transportation in north central Ohio.  Few people probably thought then they would want the old trolley cars back.

 

Now transportation firm heads readily admit an electric car would be a welcome sight -- especially when they try to get 40 passengers into 30-passenger cars and the government tells them to go easy on gas and tires.  Mansfield's streetcars have been gone for nearly seven years.  There was no war in sight when the old trolley cars were junked, and there was enough gas for every motor.

 

Full story at http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080914/LIFESTYLE/809140304

Photos of streetcars from all over the world

 

http://www.shugotram.jp/twrldmap/twrldmae.html

So.......has this faded off into the sunset? Or is it still very much alive?  Just wondering...the only Ohio news I get is right here.

I'm hearing the Mayor's office is laying low on the streetcar for now because there is a huge city bond issue package on the ballot and they don't want take the chance that voters will reject it by thinking it benefits the streetcar (it doesn't).

 

My sources tell me we will probably see the streetcar plan back in the new and moving forward after Election Day when the results of the bond issue are known.

My sources tell me we will probably see the streetcar plan back in the new and moving forward after Election Day when the results of the bond issue are known.

 

Thanks for the update.

I've heard the exact same thing. Columbus' Urban Czar Mike Brown has been quietly meeting with several neighborhood groups and businesses each week though to continue to promote the Streetcar plan, answer questions, and drum up support. So the wheels are turning even if we're not seeing much in the news right now.

Can i get a job with Mike Brown?  His job sounds like it could be a blast.  I was just let go last week from my job so, I'm for hire!  :-)

 

Consider the irony that so many U.S. auto workers and others are out of work as a streetcar & rail revival takes place...and because we allowed our passenger rail car industry to literally die and disappear, the vehicles that will operate on new streetcar, light rail and intercity passenger rail lines will come from overseas.

 

European tram makers stand to gain from U.S. streetcar push

By John Tagliabue

International Herald Tribune

Monday, November 10, 2008

 

PARIS: America may have invented the streetcar, but Europe perfected it.  As a result, as gas prices soared over the past couple of years and dozens of North American communities sought to reintroduce electric streetcars as an alternative to diesel buses, some of the biggest beneficiaries were European tram builders.

 

Now, as the U.S. government gears up to support an expanded infrastructure program to counter the deepening recession, trams are likely to be one of building blocks for reviving the American economy and improving the nation's energy efficiency.

 

Full story at http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/10/business/trams.php

I don't think the current economic climate is going to do so well for the streetcar...

 

1) A strong argument for the line was that some 1,500 housing units would be developed along its corridor... considering the current housing and economic downturn, I think those numbers would need to be revised considerably downwards. If the line is built now, we may end up with 2-3 story buildings lining the route, instead of 5-7 story buildings. And once those shorter buildings are in place, they will be hard to redevelop. Plus, it would hinder the argument for expansion, since naysayers will rightfully say "See, your figures for the starter line were way off... why should we now believe your predictions regarding expansion!" If the streetcar is to build up density, I don't know if its wise to risk lower-density buildings springing up.

 

2) Much of the funding could have come from restaurants lining the route. I wonder how many of these will go under in the next year or so... thereby reducing the funding base. I also wonder if the mood within the "benefit zone" has soured since the economic downturn. I know I'm not the only one who is now reconsidering the wisdom behind the streetcar push.

 

3) The line was to be an impetus for a wider regional rail project that could alleviate pressures from gas pumps. Well, gas prices have gone down, so much of that argument is dissipated. Its easy to say "Gas will soon shoot back up to $3.50 a gallon!," but that won't likely happen until the recession is over. And anyways, an improved economic climate will get gas prices back up, so that would be a better time to go through with this. When gas prices are back to sky high, that might just be an indicator that our economy is healthy enough to sustain this. And yes, Portland built its line in the not so great economic climate of 2001, but Portland's economy is arguably stronger, and their downtown never sank nearly as low as ours. We can't really compare the two.

 

4) It may no longer be worth $100,000,000 to boost public transit use by a few thousand passengers per day. I don't know about you, but I think that if people are scared/hesitant to use public transit, that is their own problem. I don't know if a hundred million dollar streetcar line should be used to market public transit to college students and yuppies. As for this being a segway to a wider regional rail network, I don't think streetcars are a prereq for commute rail. The much touted city of Portland had a commuter rail before it had a streetcar... Not to mention that commuter rail here would be less effective since we have so many freeways leading into downtown... unlike Portland which doesn't. Point is, its too easy to drive to downtown, so rail isn't so attractive. Plus, any savings at the gas pump would largely be eaten away by daily roundtrip tickets on a commuter rail if they cost more than $4. And the service frequency may just render rail as a hassle for commuters if trains come at too large a time interval.

 

5) Advocates keep describing development along the line as a "return on investment," but I think that is a bit of a misnomer. The city gov't will be investing $100,000,000 into the line, and the DEVELOPERS will invest in and reap the benefits of any development along the route. Yes, they are investing IN the city, but the city gov't is the one making the hundred million dollar plunge, and they aren't going to see that money again for a very long time. In fact, the city will likely offer property tax abatements to entice people to move to new developments along the route, so the city gov't's will need to wait even longer to see a "return" in the form of taxes. And sales tax boosts aren't going to really make this worthwhile, since the city govt could more wisely reap sales tax by other means. The real winners of the "Investment returns" are the developers.

 

6) Streetcars were also marketed as a way to reduce parking problems. After living in a large East Coast city, I can honestly say that parking in Columbus is a breeze, even on gallery hop days. Walking a few blocks once a month doesnt really mean parking is a hassle in Columbus. In fact, you can almost always find a spot within a block or two of your destination, or use a cheap vallet service. I've driven around Philly for more than an hour looking for a parking space on a normal evening. And garages here charge $6 for even 20 minutes, while vallet is usually $17... so parking here is truly in high a problem. While that level of parking shortage isn't the threshhold for a "bad parking situation," I honestly don't think Columbus has any parking shortage whatsoever.

 

7) Steetcars may support an urban, car-free lifestyle, but that sort of lifestyle is largely elective in Cbus, so the city has no real obligation to facilitate that lifestyle. The people who really can't afford cars are already using public transit - the people living along the streetcar route will largely be the type of person that can CHOOSE to give up a car. As such, the city shouldn't have to spend over a hundred million dollars to cater towards the lifestyles goals of, at most, a few thousand people. With a hundred million dollars, we can improve public transit for more "bang for bucK" than the streetcar provides. As for neighborhood connectivity, I again don't think it is worth the hefty pricetag. Also, that issue is only one of a long list of problems negatively affecting downtown re-development. We could improve connectivity cheaply by improving bus service.

 

And on a non-economic note: after living in Philly for a few months, I've already experienced how much of a hassle fixed rail tracks can be for a streetcar. On more than one occasion, a car has either broken down on the tracks, or a delivery truck has partially blocked the streetcars path. In those instances, it took over 30 minutes for the offender to be removed, by which time 5 more trolleys had also joined the trolley-jam... and this was in a relatively quiet area around UPenn. The COTA equivalent here has said that no trolleys can be run through congested areas unless the trolley were given exclusive right of way. Philly still has trolley tracks already layed down throughout the center city... but they refuse to restart service in central areas (even those outside of downtown) because trolleys were being delayed so often. Thats all the more surprising considering that the tracks and power source are so well-maintained, that all Philly would have to do is buy trolleys to run on the tracks, or refurbish some that it already has. They literally could restart service in a month, but they refuse to do so. I haven't seen any proposal from columbus streetcar advocates as to how to deal with this major nuisance.

 

My mood towards streetcars has soured, but I think this is an especially bad time to go through with it. Anyone think I'm totally wrong here?

Yeah, right. What a waste of $100 million, when we could instead throw it down the rathole of new highway lanes. We've already spent well over $1 billion rebuilding central Ohio highways in the last 10 or 12 years, fueling more sprawl. And now the sour real estate market is much more pronounced in the 'burbs. But urban markets are holding much steadier, and the urban markets, where the streetcars will be located, are where a greater share of future housing development will take place. What's going to get this country out of its financial mess is spending -- government investment in new infrastructure. And that infrastructure, and the private development that follows, will be more urban than it has been in decades.

Willard84 raises some interesting points about the state of the economy.

 

But progressive transit ideas shouldn't be put on hold just because of a bump in the economy. Such times are exactly when the public sector should be doing job stimulus and infrastructure projects like streetcars and rail. 

 

We faced a similar situation in the 1930's when President Roosevelt's administration forged ahead with the New Deal, much of which was infrastructure and public buildings. We’re still benefitting from that investment today. In my own neighborhood, I can still walk on sidewalks that bear a WPA stamp embedded in what is now over 70 year old concrete. Talk about getting our $$$$ worth!

 

I've heard Mayor Coleman say for months, this is not just about a High Street line, but one part of a regional rail system built in the coming years.  He is right on the mark.  The Ohio Rail Development Commission is advancing its Ohio Hub Plan for high-performance passenger trains across Ohio and the region.  Governor Ted Strickland supports this and has recently asked Amtrak to work with the ORDC to see what it would take in the short term to start-up basic, conventional passenger service in the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati (3-C) Corridor.

 

Imagine how well a streetcar can connect and grow with such a statewide and regional system.

 

It's also worth noting that a streetcar line would not be built and running on High Street until 2013 at earliest. We can all be hopeful that the current housing downturn has ended by then, so it will still help drive the higher density housing development and retail activity that will benefit the entire zone. By the way, none of the funding in the current plan comes from restaurants, or food or beverage taxes, or from assessments on small businesses along High Street. 

 

Consider as well that $11.4 million a year over 25 years for a downtown streetcar is a drop in the bucket compared to the $420-million a year the State of Ohio is currently investing in Central Ohio's roads and highways. Fixing the 70/71 split alone will cost more than $500 million. And the City of Columbus spent $46 million this year alone resurfacing roads and building new ones and that doesn’t count the work done county-wide. 

 

As it has in other cities, electric-powered streetcars will get more cars off the road and help ease the parking crunch in the densest parts of Columbus.  Such an investment also puts us one step closer to reducing our dependency on foreign oil and improving our air quality.  These are all good purposes in any economy.

 

And Columbus is not alone. More than 40 cities in America, including Cincinnati, are either planning or working on building streetcars.  They recognize that especially in times like these, we need more and not fewer transportation options.

 

We need to be making those kind of investments in our future too.

The biggest parking problem area is probably Victorian Village/Italian Village. The streetcar would do wonders for that area.

 

Imagine if the proposed casino occupied the City Center Mall. With a street car line running up High St., it would not only spur development downtown decreasing the number of parking lots but also pump a lot of money into the short north from casino patrons.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to tax the casino in an effort to fund the street car.

Coleman Asks Obama For Millions For Light Rail System

Thursday,  January 8, 2009 3:27 PM

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Mayor Michael Coleman has asked President-Elect Barack Obama to consider a $334.5 million stimulus package request, including $200 million for a regional rail project, 10TV News reported Thursday.  Coleman made the request through a letter written on Dec. 31, less than two weeks after meeting with Obama and his transition staff.

 

According to the letter, the city must close a $92 million budget gap for 2009 that will require cuts in programs and services.  Coleman wrote that layoffs will be unavoidable if the city cannot close the deficit.  The proposed projects would impact more than 70,000 jobs, Coleman said.

 

The regional rail project would connect downtown's businesses and attractions through the convention district, Short North, Ohio State University campus and neighborhoods and businesses north through the Delaware County line, according to the plan.

 

Coleman also requested:

 

$32 million, for the Downtown/River South project

$26 million, for infrastructure near Nationwide Children's Hospital and Sterling Commerce

$59.4 million, to support environmentally friendly public buildings and improve water quality

$12.6 million, in strategic transportation infrastructure requests.

 

Coleman joined several other mayors and governors to meet with with Obama in Washington on Thursday

 

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2009/01/08/story_coleman_stimulus.html?sid=102

 

Read Mayor Coleman's full letter to the President-elect:

 

http://www.10tv.com/live/export-content/sites/10tv/local/stories/2009/01/08/stimulus_request.pdf

 

Note:  This is a combined "ask" to build both the North Corridor LRT line and the Downtown Streetcar.

Columbus seeks $334M from Obama plan for light rail, other projects

Regional line would run from Downtown to Worthington

Thursday,  January 8, 2009 4:09 PM

By Robert Vitale

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Columbus has revived plans for a regional light-rail system as part of its request for $334.5 million from President-elect Obama's economic-stimulus plan.  The city's wish list has many hurdles ahead -- Obama's plan needs congressional approval, first of all -- but Mayor Michael B. Coleman said light rail fits in with the incoming president's priorities of economic development, alternative transportation and reduced energy consumption.

 

Although Coleman pitched a Downtown streetcar line last year as the first step toward a bigger light-rail system, the new plan written by the Central Ohio Transit Authority "is the larger plan," he said.  "It's the best of streetcars and light rail," Coleman said.  The trains would run from Downtown to the Delaware County line, following the streetcar plan's High Street route before veering over to existing railroad tracks to the east.  The route would pass through the Short North, University District, Clintonville and Worthington.

 

Full story at http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/01/08/lightrail.html?sid=101

WOW!  GREAT NEWS!

(I was getting ready to post this too - you just beat me to it.) 

wow, so he wants to go further than just the streetcar system.  That rocks!

Now hook that up with passenger rail in the 3-C Corridor in the short term and then the full blown Ohio Hub in the long term.  You should be able to travel into downtown Columbus and leave the city for anywhere in or beyond Ohio and never have a rubber tire underneath you.

A more detailed story from today's Columbus Dispatch:

 

Back on track?

City, COTA want trains, not trolleys, ask feds for $200 million to start

Friday,  January 9, 2009 3:17 AM

By Debbie Gebolys and Robert Vitale

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Sidetracked light-rail plans could return to the main line in Columbus if President-elect Barack Obama's economic-stimulus package lends a hand.  That main line would follow High Street from Downtown to Ohio State University and then head beyond to somewhere around Polaris.  In a request revealed yesterday, local officials asked Obama for $200 million to get a rail line ready for construction. The line would combine elements of a streetcar proposal championed by Mayor Michael B. Coleman beginning in 2006 and the light-rail plan that the Central Ohio Transit Authority shelved in late 2005.

 

Streetcars are out, in favor of larger light-rail train cars, but their High Street route is in. And the city of Columbus would back out, in favor of COTA coordinating the effort. Construction could begin within two years.  Under COTA's proposal, a 13-mile line would run from the Franklin County Courthouse at Mound and High streets to the Delaware County line.  It would use High Street from Downtown to OSU, before cutting east on 18th Avenue to the Norfolk Southern/CSX railroad tracks that run parallel to I-71.

 

Full story at http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/01/09/copy/localstim.ART_ART_01-09-09_A1_05CG0KN.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

I'm gonna keep my figures crossed! I really hope this goes through. Maybe one day, I will be able to take the train from Circleville or Chillicothe into Downtown Columbus!

Light rail is great, but it definitely serves a different purpose than streetcars.  One is not a substitute for another in most cases.

This definitely seems like a mixed-use rail plan. In town, it acts as a streetcar and then heading north it acts as light-rail. Consider the linearity of the focus for the Cbus plan all along, it makes sense to go all out for a light rail line, in contrast, Cincy's plan doesn't really have easy light rail focus, so starting with a streetcar circulator makes more sense. 

I love the headline :roll: as if highways and aviation don't take even more $$$$:

 

Light rail runs on a whole lot of cash, advocates warn

Requested federal money would cover a fraction of the proposed railway

Saturday,  January 10, 2009 3:07 AM

By Debbie Gebolys

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Reignited plans for light-rail transportation are sketchy right now, but at least one thing is certain: Everyone in the region likely will be buying a ticket to ride.  Central Ohio Transit Authority President William Lhota and Columbus Mayor Michael B. Coleman are hoping that President-elect Barack Obama's economic-stimulus plans will deliver a $200 million shot in the arm to regional rail plans that have suffered a series of stops and starts spanning several decades.

 

On and off track

 

• 1984: The Central Ohio Transit Authority considers spending a cash surplus on light rail. The Columbus Area Chamber of Commerce tells COTA to concentrate on bus service instead.

 

• 1995: COTA considers a levy to expand bus service and build an 11.2-mile, $256 million light-rail system on the North Side. City leaders balk and COTA kills the rail plan. Voters nix a bus-only sales-tax request.

 

• 1999: COTA asks voters to pass a light-rail levy. It's rejected.

 

• 2002: COTA's North Corridor project is one of eight nationwide that is recommended for construction by the Federal Transit Administration.

 

• 2004: The FTA tells COTA it will no longer recommend the line because central Ohio voters didn't pass a rail levy.

 

• March 2006: Mayor Michael B. Coleman proposes Columbus build a streetcar line from the Brewery District to the University District.

 

• June 2006: William Lhota, COTA president and chief executive officer, tells the board that its plans for mass transit don't qualify for federal funding. COTA shuts down its rail activities.

 

• July 2008: The streetcar-line proposal from 2006 is put aside, with the city not knowing how to pay for the project in a sagging city budget.

 

• December 2008: Coleman meets with President-elect Barack Obama in Chicago to ask for $200 million in an economic-stimulus grant for a light-rail plan, part of a $330 million request for five city projects.

 

Source: Dispatch archives

 

Full story at http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/01/10/MoneyTrain.ART_ART_01-10-09_B1_2NCGE6I.html?sid=101

 

Noozer note:  Now look at the above timeline and imagine what this light rail line would have cost back in 1984 compared to today, if the powers-that-be back then had any kind of foresight.  We'd be on our third or fourth stage of expanded light rail service by now. 

"Noozer note:  Now look at the above timeline and imagine what this light rail line would have cost back in 1984 compared to today, if the powers-that-be back then had any kind of foresight.  We'd be on our third or fourth stage of expanded light rail service by now."

 

 

Great point.  If people think something costs too much today - just wait - it'll cost much more later!

Has COTA or City Council considered rebuilding the old streetcar lines that used to run on High, Main, Cleveland, Broad, Livingston, and so on? Do you think this would gather more support from local citizens? Hell, you can still see the old tracks on Mohawk Street in German Village!

The old streetcar tracks are long-buried and probably not in great condition.  They would probably have to be dug up and completely replaced. 

 

The tracks that used to run on High Street through downtown were excavated out when High Street was rebuilt from the Short North to I-70.