>A hybrid streetcar/light-rail car that COTA officials just learned about would cost less than light-rail vehicles and would weigh less, too. That means they'd require less time and money for rail foundations than light-rail cars do and go faster and carry more riders than streetcars do.

 

One new tram line in Paris runs the equivalent of modern streetcars but they're about twice as long with several articulation joints:

 

The big problem with these types of trams is that the length of vehicles is limited by the lengths of city blocks.  Also, High St. between Short North and OSU is very congested during events and I don't see a way to keep in-street rail running during events without completely closing High St. to vehicular traffic.   

I can see a lot of downtown commuters from northern neighborhoods avoiding this rail line because the transit times will be incredibly slow without grade separation.  But since many would be heading to work or school at OSU, it's probably not too big of a problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

An excellent interview with COTA CEO Bill Lhota about the light rail project:

 

http://www.columbusunderground.com/bill-lhota-answers-your-light-rail-questions

Columbus specialists - would it be possible (at some point in the future) to take the line straight past the turn at 18th for an express to Downtown?

Yes, it would be possible to go straight downtown at some point by following the railroad right of way at least as far as Goodale Ave, which is just north of the convention center. The original proposal called for trains to turn off the railroad right of way at that point, head west on Goodale, before turning south on N High Street into downtown.

 

The trip time from the northern 'burbs would be much slower than with the bypass, but we still hit a lot of key points. The other thing to keep in mind is that this is only the first phase of a bigger system. You might well see such a bypass.

 

I'm a bit curious about 18th St. As far as I know, it's not a main thorofare and may not even be a thru street. I'll have to look at that.

The original COTA light rail plan had the route turning on 17th and heading West to OSU as well as a straight route along the railroad corridor into Downtown..  I don't know where or how 18th came up as a route.... it's barely a side street.

 

 

 

 

18th St. does not make any sense to me. I think it makes more sense to come off the railroad at Hudson and use the 4th/Summit corridor to downtown. You could zig-zag over to High St via 5th Avenue and then go downtown.

18th doesn't go all the way across to the tracks, meaning they'd have to take out some houses and build a bridge across the ravine.  They'd probably take out some more houses close to the tracks. 

 

Lane always made more sense to me since the homes sit back from the street and after knocking down the trees they could widen the street with rail operating in the median.  They'd still have to take out a few homes but it would be fewer (about 6 or 7) and less disruptive to the neighborhood's appearance.  Also, because the OSU buildings sit back from the street, they could run light rail in a cut on the west side of High St. from Lane down to the gateway. 

 

In the dual approach scheme did the direct route on the tracks have stations or was it simply an express route? 

 

 

 

 

18th is not a thru street and it's in a really congested area, filled with OSU student housing and many, many autos in street parking. It would better to use 15th, which goes all the way from High St to the tracks.

 

I'm not sure what stations were on the direct approach route. I think it bypassed any stops until it got as far south as Goodale ave.

 

There was a later plan that called for coming off the rail right of way just south of Hudson and running on the Summit/4th St corridor to Goodale and then to High St. into downtown. This made a lot of sense as these are two one-way north-south streets. Stoplights are already sequentially timed and the streets are wide enough (3 thru lanes w/parking on each side) to easily accomodate any light rail line.

 

High Street would be possible, but it's much more congested, which will slow running times. I'd rather just run down Summit/4th and build the streetcar line up High from the point where it intersects with Goodale and where the light rail line would branch off. More money, yes, but a much better setup.

 

If it were me, I'd later run the streetcar north on High St. to Hudson and then turn east on that street to meet the light rail line and create a new urban style development zone in the Hudson/Indianola/Summit/Fourth St. area. This would really anchor the south end of the Clintonville/north Campus area.

You forget that a major factor in the proposed route is to serve the OSU campus area.  That's why OSU Pres. Gordon Gee was on board with the orginial "streetcar" plan, and (now that it will be LRT) that's the only way they can continue the support of OSU. 

 

It also makes much more sense from a ridership standpoint.... more dense = more passengers. If you contrast current bus ridership on the COTA#2 (N. High) and the #4 (Indianola/Third/ Summit) the #2 is clearly more heavily used.  I think they are going for the most riders and not necessarily an uncongested route.

 

An excellent interview with COTA CEO Bill Lhota about the light rail project:

 

http://www.columbusunderground.com/bill-lhota-answers-your-light-rail-questions

 

Thanks for the linkage. ;) It was really great to sit down with Bill Lhota for 30 minutes and just throw question after question at him. He's a really interesting guy and very in tune with the passionate discussions happening online about rail development.

I thought it was interesting that he revelaed he reads the various blogs.

Local rail part of statewide vision

Published: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:29 PM EST

This Week News

 

The plan to resurrect Central Ohio light-rail primarily would benefit Franklin and Delaware counties, although it's also part of a larger effort to revitalize passenger rail throughout the state.  "It's essentially a local transportation issue, but we're certainly pleased to see that the mayor, COTA and MORPC would interconnect on this project," said Ohio Rail Development Commission Public Information Officer Stu Nicholson.

 

Columbus Mayor Mike Coleman has asked President-elect Barack Obama to include this region when pursuing an $800 billion economic stimulus project.  Coleman's specific request involves $200 million to bring a 13-mile light-rail track to Central Ohio, running between Polaris and Downtown.

 

Full story at http://www.columbuslocalnews.com/articles/2009/01/15/multiple_papers/news/alllightra_20090115_1101am_2.prt

The day the streetcars died

By Lyndsey Teter

The Other Paper

Published: Thursday, January 15, 2009 1:37 PM EST

 

Two years ago, nobody really knew what a modern streetcar was.  The idea of a light rail commuter had been kicked around a bit, but only as COTA’s pie-in-the-sky dream to help the struggling public bus system.  The fight for the future proved futile as COTA president Bill Lhota, burned out and lacking needed federal funding, shelved the idea, conceding COTA would instead concentrate on being a bus company, “for the foreseeable future.”

 

No sooner had Lhota waved the white flag, however, when Coleman dropped the S-word.  Buried in his 2006 State of the City address, the mayor mentioned how a thing called “streetcars” could have real potential and deserved further study.

 

Full story at http://www.theotherpaper.com/articles/2009/01/16/cover_story/doc496f3f2b05393944590324.txt

What can one say about The Other Paper?  I generally like it - but it's the newspaper equivalent of junk food.  Satisfying but empty.  It's the Columbus version of the NY Post.  Don't believe me - just look at the cover below...

 

That's an awesome cover :)

^ Ahahaha, somebody should remove the text and Photoshop a Chevy Tahoe full of fat exurbanites in front of the streetcar so it looks like the Deathrider is coming for SUVs. I've been looking at too many NWOBHM album covers.

It kinda looks like a subliminal hint to kill the streetcar project. The Grim Reaper is hanging out of a modern streetcar.

I thought the reporter spent way too much time trying to be "snarky" and didn't support many of her assumptions with a lot of facts.

 

She fails to mention that most of the critics who didn't like the original streetcar plan said it wasn't big enough.  So the Mayor goes with a bigger plan and now she's drawing conclusions that he wsn't sincere about the streetcar in the first place. So where's her supportive evidence?

 

Having been a member of the working group that studied the streetcar plan, I can tell you Mayor Coleman was absolutely serious about it.  And he took the criticisms seriously as well, especially when he saw there was support for a bigger plan.  But Ms. Teter equates that realization on the part of the Mayor with somehow being shallow about the streetcar in the first place. Again, what proof?

 

I was there.  I saw the process and the detail.  This was far from a half-baked plan, especially given engineering and other consultancy work that was done on designing routes and determining economic impact.

 

Frankly, this story looks like she went into it with an attitude in the first place and wouldn't let go of it.

^

Typical of what passes for reporting at the Other Paper.  They could perform a valuable service to the community by objectively looking at issues mainstream media misses, but noooooooo...:x

In case you haven't noticed, there is a Stimulus Watch website that has people voting on what they think are the most and least critical projects.  Right now Columbus' North Corridor Light Rail system is one of the worst performing and on the least critical list.  Lets change that...

 

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/view/3763

 

Be sure to look around and vote for other Ohio projects like Cincinnati's Streetcar system - http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/view/3393.

 

View all of Ohio's projects here:

http://www.stimuluswatch.org/project/by_state/OH

Because people who visit the site are the ones who can rank projects. Having unbiased project criteria/scoring? What a concept!

 

I didn't see any Cleveland projects on there. It's not for a lack of projects.... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.msg357590.html#msg357590

Stimulus could jump-start light rail

By: Jim Coyne

The Lantern (OSU)

Posted: 2/13/09

 

A project thought to be dead in the water might be back on track.  Planning for the North Corridor light rail in Columbus could begin within the next couple months when the economic stimulus bill is finalized.  "There is significant transportation funding in the stimulus package including urban rail, state rail and innovative transit projects," said Mike Brown, communications director for Mayor Michael B. Coleman.  "The package is not final yet, but we are one of the early people that could qualify for funding."

 

Mayor Coleman is requesting $200 million in support for the light rail project in the stimulus package.  The stimulus package does not specify individual projects, but Ohio and the Ohio Department of Transportation will receive a lump sum for infrastructure.  The light rail concept has been debated before and was shelved in the summer of 2006 when the federal government denied COTA funding.

 

http://www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2009/02/13/Campus/Stimulus.Could.JumpStart.Light.Rail-3628441.shtml

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Coyne can be reached at [email protected].

Excerpt from a longer Columbus Dispatch story:

 

MORPC, COTA to get $42 million in stimulus money

Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:24 AM

By Debbie Gebolys

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

.....COTA's light-rail project won't get the $200 million in federal economic-stimulus money that local officials asked for, but that doesn't mean the project is dead.

 

COTA's 8-mile light-rail line from Downtown to Ohio State along High Street isn't far enough along to qualify for the money, COTA President Bill Lhota said, but it could be eligible for money that's freed up by the federal cash infusion.

 

...

 

[email protected]

 

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/02/18/rail19.html?sid=101

Columbus Light Rail System Still Millions of Dollars Away

Sam Hendren, WOSU Reporter

02-20-2009

 

Ohio's share of the Federal Reinvestment and Recovery Act does not, as officials had hoped, contain funding for a light rail system in Columbus.  The Central Ohio Transit Authority wanted several hundred million dollars for the project.  Instead, COTA is expected to receive much less.

 

Commuter mass transportation around Columbus will mean riding the bus for the foreseeable future.  Officials had requested $200 million of stimulus money.  With it, the Central Ohio Transit Authority would have built a light rail system heading north from downtown.  What COTA will get is an estimated $14 million.  Money that comes with strings attached.  It cannot be spent on things like diesel fuel.  But it can buy new equipment.  So that's what company president Bill Lhota is planning to do.

 

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wosu/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1472083

^Well that's unfortunate.

This video has a shot of the last streetcar run in Columbus at around 58 seconds and about a 2 second shot of a train in Columbus Union Station at the end (can't see too much, but what the heck...):

 

^ Well, that was depressing.

I am having a hard time finding info about the status of the Columbus streetcar and light rail plans? Does anyone have any info? Will it happen?

I'm hearing it may not happen, what with Mayor Coleman having to address the city's financial problems. It may be a while before the project can be revived. Hopefully the data won't be stale by then, and a new study won't be needed. But these plans have a shelf life of maybe five years.

 

We have a thread on this topic here at UO, but it hasn't been cleaned up yet. I'm hoping others will help out in this regard, especially those who have already contributed so much to these threads.

I got the short one out of the way, moving on to the big one now.  Half the battle is choosing which thread to clean next :P  Knowing someone actually wants to see a thread helps.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2480.0.html

The Streetcar project was rolled into the old North Corridor Light Rail plan in January this year, and COTA was planning on applying for federal stimulus funds. The updates on the project have been pretty thin since then, so it seems to pretty officially "on the backburner" at this time. I imagine City Hall has kept silent on it all year to get the income tax increase to pass... and while Bill Lhota at COTA has been great at stabilizing the bus system, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to be too gung ho about any major new expensive projects, bus or rail based.

 

So while the project isn't dead, it's certainly not progressing at the moment. If I had to make an educated guess, I think we may hear more about it once funding hopefully clears for the 3C and as we start to come out of the recession and our city budget re-stabilizes. Which could mean anywhere from 6 months out to 3 years out before we hear more on local rail development.

The streetcar / light rail news thread is back up and running again. 

 

I have also merged Wheelingman's "What about Columbus streetcar and light rail?" thread into this discussion.  Enjoy!

Mayor Coleman said on Tuesday at MORPC's Sustainability Summit that light rail must and will happen in Columbus.  Of course, he did not offer a time frame.

The streetcar / light rail news thread is back up and running again.

 

I have also merged Wheelingman's "What about Columbus streetcar and light rail?" thread into this discussion. Enjoy!

 

As my Latino friends would say: Grassy-ass.

Meanwhile....down I-71 in Cincy:

 

Rail experts, a question for you:

 

How would the new light rail line interface with freight rail and the 3-C passenger corridor.  Eventually, there would potentially need to be 3 seperate sets of tracks in that corridor: freight (shared NS & CSX), high speed passenger rail to Cleveland, and light rail.  I think the ROW is 100 feet wide or so, but they might need to completely reconfigure the existing tracks to make it work for all three.

^Light rail will need its own set of tracks - in fact there needs to be a separation of 25-28 feet between light rail tracks and freight/intercity tracks.  As for the startup 3-C service, it can run on the same tracks as freight.  I would think that additional/separate tracks would be needed as the number and frequency of trains increase.

 

So while the project isn't dead, it's certainly not progressing at the moment. If I had to make an educated guess, I think we may hear more about it once funding hopefully clears for the 3C and as we start to come out of the recession and our city budget re-stabilizes. Which could mean anywhere from 6 months out to 3 years out before we hear more on local rail development.

 

No doubt that the project will have to wait for the local financial setting get on firmer ground, but I'd say just as important is the level of funding for transit projects (FTA New Starts) in the next federal transportation bill. 

Thanks for the info guys. Hopefully something will happen before too long. I have been waiting for this crap in Columbus since the 1990's. Sad.

Seattle has been waiting since the 1960s. Only in the last few years has progress been made.

 

Many other cities had planned rail projects for decades and finally had success after numerous failures -- Phoenix, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, Denver, Dallas, Houston, etc. etc.

 

Guys, if they can build rail in ultra-conservative, sprawling Phoenix and or in Houston that is anti-urban planning with openly rail-hostile congressfolk, then have rail enjoy success that has prompted calls for expansion, then it can happen anywhere.

This is a fascinating issue that will do more to change the development patterns of the columbus region than any other single economic development incentive or land-use policy.  There are so many brownfield industrial sites adjacent to rail lines in columbus that could easily become transit oriented developments.  Some of these are in center city neighborhoods, but many are in established suburbs.  This could make denser development feasible to even those folks that would never consider downtown or the first ring neighborhoods. 

 

we have to get this done...what could help push to it?  i think the political stars are aligned, but it seems like there are very few concrete plans...or even plans to make plans...to get this done in Columbus (is my impression wrong?)

 

Im worried that we will get pushed to the back of the line when other cities have much more visible ongoing public outreach efforts (cincy, kansas city, LA, dallas, etc.)

Join All Aboard Ohio and attend their monthly Columbus local meetings. The next one will be:

 

October 24th—10 a.m. to noon—All Aboard Ohio Columbus Local Meeting—Grandview Public Library, 1685 West First Avenue. Donations encouraged. Coffee/juice/danishes. Contact Larry Robertson at 614-459-0359.

it seems like there are very few concrete plans...or even plans to make plans...to get this done in Columbus (is my impression wrong?)

 

There has been a lot of work that has gone into the Streetcar plan, but it's been pushed to the backburner for awhile due to funding concerns, elections, city budget problems, and other political conflicts.

 

I don't think the lack of planning or support is the problem. City leadership just need to take the next few bold steps to get things moving along. That's really all there is to it.

 

Mass Transit is a tough issue to be a fan of. As an individual, there's not a whole lot you can do other than write about it or talk about it to show your support.

I think the development of intercity passenger rail service in the 3C Corridor may prove to be a catalyst that moves streetcar and light plans back on to the front burner.  As the intercity service is introduced and is ramped up to include more and faster trains, the demand for seamless, rail-based connections will show itself.

 

The immediate, initial connections at train stations may be rubber-tired (buses), but passengers will likely start demanding connections with streetcars and light rail. 

Streetcar projects eligible for new USDOT grants

Progressiverailroading.com

 

Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) announced $280 million is available in federal grants for urban circulator projects, such as streetcar and bus systems.

 

The money represents the first batch of funding provided by the Obama Administration through the Livability Initiative, a joint venture comprising USDOT, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. 

 

Full story at:

 

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/news/article.asp?id=22081

i assume that with the potential for additional stimulus money being passed in the house, our chances of potential funding are going up.  will this also help us out? 

 

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/18/lowering-cost-effectiveness-guidelines-will-limit-the-ftas-effectiveness-in-choosing-projects/

 

 

i assume that with the potential for additional stimulus money being passed in the house, our chances of potential funding are going up.  will this also help us out? 

 

Getting stimulus funds to build light rail/streetcar in Columbus is highly unlikely.  The stimulus dollars carry very aggressive timelines for projects to be designed and built.  Assuming the additional funds through the Jobs Act is similar to the initial stimulus package, the projects will be limited to preservation, maintenance, or "fix-it-first" projects.  Capacity adding projects will need to have been through much of the environmental and/or design phase to recieve funding.

 

I'd say how the proposal will help is giving a greater consideration to the redevelopment benefits that light rail/commuter rail/streetcar projects bring to the table.  Currently, the New Starts projects are scored based mainly on their travel-time savings, congestion relief, and VMT reduction merits.  The economic benefits on these projects are not given enough merit and the proposal is to allow the economic benefits to play a larger role when scoring projects.

So this is something that is still being considered?

 

Sounds like it's on the backburner until further notice. The city budget issues really gave it a back seat this year.

I am hearing the Columbus Streetcar plan is about to be revived on a slightly larger scale.

 

Interesting article that indicates streetcars are on the rebound...

 

A Desire for More Streetcars

More than half a century after the streetcar's heyday, this transportation mode is poised to make a comeback.

Tod Newcombe | July 2010

Governing Magazine

 

It may lack the romance and history of the St. Charles streetcars in New Orleans, but Seattle's modest streetcar line in the South Lake Union district has given a once downtrodden city neighborhood instant credibility as a place to live and work. The new line links South Lake Union to the city's growing light-rail system, which in turn connects to downtown Seattle shopping areas, commuter rail and the airport. The 2.6-mile loop with single cars trundling along at city traffic speeds might just be the future of streetcars in America.

 

While many single streetcar lines play to the tourist crowds and trolley fans, numerous cities seriously are considering and planning legitimate streetcar systems as part of their mass transit network. In addition to Seattle, which plans to add a second line, Cincinnati, Denver, Houston, Salt Lake City and Charlotte, N.C., are exploring adding streetcar lines to existing transit systems. Tacoma, Wash., operates a short modern line; Portland, Ore., has a popular service in its downtown; and Washington, D.C., is constructing a streetcar line in its Anacostia neighborhood.

 

Full story at: http://www.governing.com/columns/urban-notebook/A-Desire-for-More-Streetcars.html

 

I am hearing the Columbus Streetcar plan is about to be revived on a slightly larger scale.

 

 

Glad to hear it.

 

Nice article, BTW.

Why didn't Columbus get any money?