My guess is that they did not apply for funding to the Federal Transit Administration.

Columbus has no federal funding-ready projects.

Cincinnati, other cities forge ahead of Columbus with Streetcar Projects

 

Full story at: http://msidesign.com/blog/index.php/cincinnati-other-cities-forge-ahead-of-columbus-with-streetcar-projects

Do Dispatch writers or this "panel" travel to other parts of the U.S. or the world? Do they not know that you can't have a world-class city without a world-class public transit system?? More parking structures downtown means more traffic. More traffic makes for a less comfortable pedestrian environment. Fewer pedestrians means less density. Less density means less downtown vibrancy. Back to square one. Are we still sure that transit is only trendy?? Boggles the mind....

 

 

Parking ills hold back Downtown, panel says

Friday, August 13, 2010 02:50 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Mass transit might be in vogue, but parking holds the key to Downtown revitalization, a panel of Columbus business and civic leaders says.

 

A lack of cheap, available parking continues to put Downtown at a disadvantage to attracting and keeping employers, who tend to gravitate to the suburbs, they said.

 

Addressing the future of Columbus at a Wednesday event sponsored by the Athletic Club of Columbus, one of the four panelists, developer Frank Kass, said the history of Downtown's development led to the parking problem.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2010/08/13/parking-ills-hold-back-downtown-panel-says.html?sid=101

Not enough parking downtown?!?

Read into the article....this panel featured a major downtown developer (among others) but no one from COTA or any transit advocacy group). The developer (Kass) is definitely "old school" in his views.... note the anti-bus comments.

 

I don't argue that some degree of improved parking (such as a garage with reatil space at street level) may be needed, but there is surface parking out the wazoo in downtown Columbus and many of the lots have a lot of empty spaces as one gets further away from the center of downtown.

cbus does have parking out the wazoo but people are 1) lazy and do not want to walk even a block if they do not have to and 2) people do not want to pay for it. That makes building a garage difficult to recoup ones investment (surface lots are cheaper to build). However, retail will not come back downtown until people live down there (en masse again). No one lives in high rise office towers so beyone the 8-5 workday it is a desolate area. Look at Cleveland along E 9th street. Look at Cincy along E 5th near all the high rises. Pretty buildings but adds no life to the street.

Sometimes I think Ohio does the exact opposite of what it should do to achieve a desired result.

 

Problem: Too much cholesterol and diabetes! Ohio solution: Eat more pizza and candy.

Problem: Skin cancer rates increasing! Ohio solution: Build more tanning spas.

Problem: Obesity rates increasing! Ohio solution: Make communities less pedestrian friendly.

Problem: Suburban flooding getting out of hand! Ohio solution: increase minimum parking lot sizes and single-use development to zoning codes.

Problem: High-density downtown under-performing! Ohio solution: increase access for low-density transportation (cars) and reduce high-density transportation (transit).

 

Good thinking, Ohio. Now go see how the real world does things.

 

Now that would make a powerful and concise letter to the editor of the Dispatch. :clap: :clap:

cbus does have parking out the wazoo but people are 1) lazy and do not want to walk through a sea of parking lots even a block if they do not have to

 

Fixed that for you.  :-D

I was rather astounded at the idea that Cbus really needed more parking, though compared to Cincinnati it seems to lack a decent parking garage infrastructure in the right places, though the statehouse garage is relatively useful.

 

    Cincinnati's downtown core has a square 6 blocks by 6 blocks, surrounded by a ring of parking garages, then a ring of surfact lots, then access ramps to the highways, which fan out in 6 directions. Or at least that's what the concept drawing in the 1948 Master Plan shows.

 

    In reality, the parking garages don't form a perfect ring, but are scattered. The surface lots are beyond the highways in some places, forcing drivers to park farther from the pedestrian area and cross the highways. But overall, Cincinnati's downtown has better access by automobile than many American cities.

 

    The Cincinnati downtown core loosely resembles a typicall American shopping mall, with a pedestrian core surrounded by a sea of parking.

 

    Unfortunately, Columbus does not have a consolidated core, nor a ring of parking. The good side to this is that the downtown merges with surrounding neighborhoods, but the bad side is that neither automobile access nor pedestrian access is served all that well.

 

    There's more to parking than just the number of spaces. Parking spaces that are not connected to buildings, or connected by an unpleasant path through too many other parking lots, or do not have easy highway access, are not as productive as a well placed parking space.

Now that would make a powerful and concise letter to the editor of the Dispatch. :clap: :clap:

 

If someone wants to use it and send it in, they are more than welcome.

Do Dispatch writers or this "panel" travel to other parts of the U.S. or the world? Do they not know that you can't have a world-class city without a world-class public transit system?? More parking structures downtown means more traffic. More traffic makes for a less comfortable pedestrian environment. Fewer pedestrians means less density. Less density means less downtown vibrancy. Back to square one. Are we still sure that transit is only trendy?? Boggles the mind....

 

Take that article with a grain of salt before getting too upset with the panel. I heard from several people at the event (and one panelist herself) that the Dispatch article didn't do a very good job of relaying what they were actually saying in regards to parking, transit or otherwise.

Do Dispatch writers or this "panel" travel to other parts of the U.S. or the world? Do they not know that you can't have a world-class city without a world-class public transit system?? More parking structures downtown means more traffic. More traffic makes for a less comfortable pedestrian environment. Fewer pedestrians means less density. Less density means less downtown vibrancy. Back to square one. Are we still sure that transit is only trendy?? Boggles the mind....

 

Take that article with a grain of salt before getting too upset with the panel. I heard from several people at the event (and one panelist herself) that the Dispatch article didn't do a very good job of relaying what they were actually saying in regards to parking, transit or otherwise.

 

But that is the fault of the Dispatch.  For years, they had an excellent transportation beat reporter in Brian Williams, but no longer.  Now they assign transportation stories to their political or other general assignment reporters.  As important of an issue as mobility and infrastructure is these days, you'd think they would dedicate a beat to it and assign a decent reporter to it.

But that is the fault of the Dispatch.

 

Right. Didn't want to see folks beating up on panelists for something that was misinterpreted through the news process. ;)

A bit of Columbus' streetcar history has a chance at beiong preserved...a project worth supporting.

 

Group wants to rehab trolley barn to anchor area's revitalization

Thursday, September 2, 2010  02:59 AM

By Mark Ferenchik

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Trolleys are long gone from Columbus streets, but a reminder of those days rests just south of Franklin Park.

 

A large brick trolley barn sits at Oak Street and Kelton Avenue, one of six buildings there that served the city's trolley system for decades before streetcars faded.

 

Now there's an effort to try to redevelop the site to serve not only as a neighborhood anchor but spur revitalization around it.

 

 

Full story at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/09/02/riding-the-past-into-the-future.html?sid=101

A very good story from MSNBC.... mainstream media discovers the streetcar revival...

 

The Return of the Streetcar

 

http://www.planetizen.com/node/46553

Par for the course.

Columbus no longer planning for streetcars, light rail

Thursday, February 10, 2011  10:44 PM

By Robert Vitale

The Columbus Dispatch

 

Despite a lingering presence in regional planning documents, officials say the idea of streetcars for Columbus and light rail for central Ohio has been shelved.

The Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission gave its OK yesterday to use more than $225million in federal money for roadwork, buses, bike trails, sidewalks and other projects designed to ease traffic congestion and improve air quality.

Don't expect action soon, however, on another item on the list:

Although MORPC continues to list Mayor Michael B. Coleman's 2006 streetcar proposal among the region's priorities - on paper, it's in line for $20million from the agency starting in 2015 - even Coleman has let the idea go.

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/02/10/Columbus_no_longer_planning_for_streetcarsx_light_rail.html?sid=101

Very sad.

 

I think Columbus would be a good city to implement a BRT system. The roads are pretty wide, so sacrificing lanes is a distinct possibility.

Putting all your marbles into highways is not a good idea. Maybe 50 years ago but not now or ever again unless we all have efficient electric cars  running around. Rail is the future. Why can't people see that???

Chalk it up to a lack of political courage by the very local leaders who pushed the streetcar plan....and it was a good one.....but wouldn't stand up for it when they took some heat from the same kind of neo-conservative critics that whined about the "costs" of the state's intercity passenger rail plan.

It's not just the leaders that didn't stand up for it; residents who would have benefited never spoke up either. Meetings on the streetcar had very poor attendance and I say that with first hand experience. The "progressives" in Columbus, it turns out, aren't all that progressive or vocal at all. This is something that you can't change, hence why I'm more than ready to move to a city where city leaders and residents did want good mass transit and they have it today: not in 2015 or 2025, but right now as we speak.

 

As much as I take a DIY approach to inner-city travel with my bike, there are times, like when it's around 0 degrees, that I want a bus to take me from point A to B without any fuss. Waiting for a bus that is 20 minutes late in brutally cold weather and no way of knowing where the bus' current location is and on top of that: we're talking at night when the buses come at hourly intervals.

 

As natninja pointed out, BRT would have been great. In fact, COTA is just now gong to study a BRT line on Cleveland Ave from Downtown to Westerville or Easton. Thing is, that should have been the backup plan to the likely demise of the streetcar plan and I should be able to ride this BRT line today. Instead, the city just said, "Oh well" and did nothing for years and simply used the streetcar debacle as a "we tried" excuse. Cities like Minneapolis didn't try and give up. In fact, their bus system alone provides regular service on weekdays up til 1AM on one of their main routes. The only hourly intervals for this line are when the 1AM and 2AM buses run. If I'm going to deal with brutally cold weather there better not be a long wait.

That is very dispiriting. BRT is fine as an intro to create identifiable transit corridors that is essential for influencing land use decisions that are more transit-supportive. But it is a baby step. BRT represents a community's "like" for transit. Streetcar represents "love" for transit.

 

I urge Columbus folks not to give up on a streetcar and to keep the fires alive. I also urge Central Ohioans to make inquiries about commuter rail on lightly used, high-quality freight tracks that serve busy travel corridors. To me, the two most obvious such corridors are CSX's Columbus Line north from downtown north along I-71 to Delaware and the other is Ohio Central's (State of Ohio's) corridor east from downtown to Newark. I hope that this is the subject of more dialog in the near future.

Putting all your marbles into highways is not a good idea.

 

That's a good way to lose your marbles.

 

I'm very disappointed in Mayor Coleman. He's got a lot of political capital with almost 12 years as mayor and little opposition for a 4th term, but with a bit of opposition to the streetcar plan, he turned tail and ran. That's after years of giving only lip service (and not much of that) to transit in general.

I chalk this up to Columbus's enormous physical size, which means pro-urban actions are nearly impossible to carry out.  In this regard Cincinnati's small physical size and population and overlapping city/county services are a blessing in disguise -- there's no way the streetcar would be happening if the city and county merged. 

I chalk this up to Columbus's enormous physical size, which means pro-urban actions are nearly impossible to carry out. In this regard Cincinnati's small physical size and population and overlapping city/county services are a blessing in disguise -- there's no way the streetcar would be happening if the city and county merged.

 

I think you may have hit on something there. The fact that Columbus spread out to preempt the proliferation of outer ring suburbs means you get all that comes with that: Autocentric development and anti-transit attitudes. That makes it very hard to do anything positive in the urban core. If we could do transit by precinct vote, maybe we'd get somewhere.

I think it has nothing to do with how spread out Columbus is, and everything to do with lack of leadership. Spread-out sunbelt cities have streetcars and light rails serving more-urban parts of those cities. The Columbus streetcar was originally (though only briefly) promoted not as a transportation plan, but as an economic development plan -- something that would help shape development patterns.

^ So was 3C, but you saw where that went. Ohioans have a tendency to think "if I won't use it, I shouldn't have to pay for it". And if that's the metric, a streetcar will lose in a large-area city.

The roads that matter in Columbus are High Street then 270. In cities, that have gone all in w/ beltway development, it becomes hard to convince folks to do an incremental core streetcar/light rail system. So many people commute across the northern third of Franklin Cty and southern 1/3 of Delaware Cty that it would nearly impossible to build a rational system that pleases those folks and the areas nearer the core.

Cincinnati's streetcar will open in a few years, and people will travel from Columbus to Cincinnati. My guess is, the will see how effective it is for stimulating redevelopment, and the idea will come back. I'd continue to refine the corridor you want to serve and, when the time's right, go for it again.

Thing is, I'm not willing to wait three years for Cincinnati's streetcar system to start, wait another three for Columbus city "leaders" to decide *if* it was a success and *if* there's demand to bring it here, then wait a year for a study to be finished and then a few more before it's finished. We're talking another decade *if* everything goes smoothly.

 

The problem is not the 270 people as much as the urban residents who let suburbanites/exurbanites speak in their place. People out there actually make their voices heard, while local residents might say they want mass transit in a comment on some transit-related article on the internet or a local message board, but won't even take a few minutes to send that as an email to the city government, let alone actually show up to meetings on the matter. If you attended such meetings like I did you would see a paltry number of people who are vocal in their support of real mass transit in this city. Rail, not to mention a good bus system, are dead in the water here; there's just no chance of either happening in the next several years. Maybe if you're a 20-something looking to retire here, you might arrive in a city with better mass-transit, but don't hold your breath.

^ You could just wait three years for the Cincinnati streetcar to start, then move to Over-the-Rhine. ;)

That's what Columbus gets for being so "progressive"...

How about this instead? Regional diesel-powered regional rail on well-maintained but light-density freight corridors. In the case of the Columbus-Newark segment, the Ohio Central RR even conducted its own feasibility study of operating commuter rail over its tracks but the interest from the public sector.

 

I wish CBus had the leadership to pull that off.  Run a streetcar up and down High Street & Broad Street and all of a sudden youve got a pretty decent backbone for a transit system.

Actually, that map runs along existing freight lines, not High & Broad. The downside of that line is that it's far enough away from all the action/High St that I wouldn't make much use of it. It would, however, be good for going to the airport and the expo center. Have to say that I'm not familiar with other commuter lines, but if others are similarly distant from the main points of interest yet attracting decent ridership, why not? This would probably be more attractive for the park and ride set. For an urban resident like me, I don't have much use for the no man's lands that this route takes riders. What's near the stops at Leonard Ave (Devon Triangle) or Cassady (East Columbus) except a couple of shady bars no one would visit? Well, I did visit Lisska Bar and I wish I took a picture of the huge historic photo of the East Columbus football team from the 20s they have in there. Maybe the commuter rail would at least help revitalize these long forgotten neighborhoods since there are businesses (some empty) within easy walking distance and bring these neighborhoods back into the local vernacular.

 

As for the streetcar N High already received plenty of attention and is already chock full of stuff. W Broad should be, and should have been, the #1 candidate for a streetcar line due to the width of the street (it's wide) and the fact that it's home to the densest collection of urban commercial buildings outside of High St. Selling the streetcar to N High where it's not needed contributed to the lack of support from High St residents and businesses. W Broad has plenty of empty storefronts, which translates into few businesses worrying about how the streetcar construction period would affect their business. The people out there are actually hungry for  investments and improvements in their neighborhoods: they don't have a Short North to afford the luxury of turning up their noses at the benefits of a streetcar. Of course, city leadership has no interest in this and locals don't share such a vision, so expect to see ongoing revitalization out there be dragged out for an unnecessarily long period of time.

Transit Columbus Launches Advocacy Group for Public Transportation

By: Walker Evans, Columbus Underground

Published on February 16, 2012 10:00 am

 

Transit Columbus publicly launched their advocacy group yesterday (February 15), and plan to serve as a voice for a regional, multi-model public transportation network in Central Ohio.  Their focus includes buses, light rail, passenger rail, bicycle and pedestrian options and alternatives.

 

MORE: http://www.columbusunderground.com/transit-columbus-launches-advocacy-group-for-public-transportation

 

More information can be found online at www.TransitColumbus.org

Transit Columbus Launches Advocacy Group for Public Transportation

By: Walker Evans, Columbus Underground

Published on February 16, 2012 10:00 am

 

 

 

Glad to see some media in C-bus doing its job. The only thing the rest of the mainstream media seems to do these days is attempt to entertain.

Glad to see some media in C-bus doing its job. The only thing the rest of the mainstream media seems to do these days is attempt to entertain.

 

Thanks. ;) Appreciate it!

As a future Columbus resident, I have to say, I have no f***ing clue why you guys don't have mass transit. As a Cincinnatian, your city strikes me as pretty evenly developed, progressive, and educated. Apartments coexist peacefully with subdivisions. Random buildings are built to the street. These kinds of things in most of Greater Cincinnati would spark a riot.

 

I just don't get it.

 

How did the ball get dropped? I mean, aside from general Ohio hostility. What I can glean from this thread is that since the city covers so much land area you get a lot of suburban interests on your council?

Just a couple off the top of my head:

 

1. A lot of people in Columbus are relatively easy to please.

 

2. Since Columbus' population is highly transient, many people think that they're going to be leaving soon.

 

There's a ton more to it than that, but those are some quickies.

Interesting. Thanks.

You also have to remember that nearly 70% of Columbusites live outside of the old urban city limits.  Imagine if the Cincinnati Streetcar was put up to vote in Hamilton County which isn't that far off from the city population of Columbus.

Also remember that Columbus' Northern Kentucky is mostly in the city limits (much of the south and west sides).

Just my two cents, but I've always felt that the relative ease to go wherever you need to go by car in Columbus has been the biggest hindrance toward getting any mass transit above the COTA bus system.  Columbus is usually rated as one of the cities nationwide having the shortest commute times.  This ease of mobility takes away one of the prime public motivators to support regional light rail.

 

Still, with that being said, a High Street streetcar system was starting to gain traction in 2008.  The Mayor's Office was pushing a streetcar line that would run between OSU, the Short North, Downtown and German Village.  It was looking like it might happen, until the Great Recession of 2008 came down hard on the city's finances.  Shoring up the city's finances took priority and the streetcar system hit the back burner.

 

Since then, other big civic projects like downtown riverfront park projects and downtown revitalization projects have overshadowed the streetcar idea.  But it is still on the back burner.  And it might return to the front burner.  Mostly because having a High Street streetcar system linking OSU, the Short North, Downtown and German Village would be a great economic development tool for those urban areas.  A streetcar system would allow people (especially visitors) to park downtown and explore the Short North and German Village.  Because even though its easy to get around by car, parking that car is not so easy in some of these areas surrounding downtown.

If you want rail and improve transit in Columbus, then please support a new organization called TransitColumbus.

 

The ease of travel is not the issue. Moving more vehicles farther, faster is a highway engineer's view of the city. The issue is building the kind of urban core that a city the size of Columbus should have. There are tremendous ingredients in place to serve as a foundation for more. A streetcar can and should link them and would strengthen them. The reason is that a streetcar serves primarily as a development anchor and a pedestrian accelerator. It also is used as a means to free up spending a large portion of one's income on transportation expenses on other things you enjoy, many of which support the development of a city -- nicer housing, more shopping, restaurants, amenities.

 

Set your vision of Columbus' urban core and if/how a streetcar can help realize it.

Just my two cents, but I've always felt that the relative ease to go wherever you need to go by car in Columbus has been the biggest hindrance toward getting any mass transit above the COTA bus system.  Columbus is usually rated as one of the cities nationwide having the shortest commute times.  This ease of mobility takes away one of the prime public motivators to support regional light rail.

 

+1

 

I'd also add geography to the list of big reasons. Columbus is mostly open and flat in all four directions. When you have big rivers, lakes, oceans, mountains, big hills and other physical boundaries in an urban area it can create transit chokepoints, highway bottlenecks and denser development, all of which lends itself well to causes for transit development.

 

Columbus can continue to sprawl in a complete 360 degree radius, which it has done quite a bit of in the past 50 years. I think that's coming to a halt as gas prices rise, demographics change and other factors come into play. So a return to denser development over the next several decades should bring some form of rail-based transit along with it.

I'd add that there are many reasons for Columbus's false starts when it comes to light rail or streetcars, most which has already been discussed. One other factor is that rail transit is an abstract idea and that makes it harder to promote. At the same time there are positives, such as the construction in the Sort North and elsewhere, which will create the critical mass necessary to move forward.

 

I think that once Cincinnati's streetcar is up and running and people are riding, the idea will be revisited in Columbus. meantime, I understand that the money that was dedicated toward the defunct Columbus streetcar might be going bye-bye. we should try to find a way to stop this and revive the streetcar. It'll be interesting to see if Columbus has the same level of fanatic opposition that Cincinnati did.

While living in Columbus and pondering the possibility of a Streetcar down High Street, the one thing that I always wondered about was with the narrowness of High Street, especially between I70/71 and Clintonville, would a Streetcar fit?  High Street in this area is probably the best candidate in the entire state of a streetcar system, but would a streetcar impede the flow of automobile and bike and pedestrian traffic given its width? It seems like an understreet subway would work better, but obviously that's out of the question for the moment.