I refuse to support a COTA that is mired in bus-only myopia and will wait until higher gas prices and possible success of the proposed trolley forces things. COTA is damn near irrelevant. Only 3% of all Columbus area commuters use it and many prospective riders would never set foot in a bus. Maybe the time has come to junk it and support the trolley instead.

 

 

It's not pessimism, it's all about what will bring the best results. I have to agree that you have a point with a solid north-south route which will be popular on both ends and I know I'll use it. However, medium/high density mid/lower priced condo/apartment developments will not/ cannot be a part of this route. It's that building just outside of downtown and providing access to the near north and downtown would bring in more people to these areas than all the residential developments downtown ever could. Now, if the grassy lots across from the COSI parking lot could be used for more reasonably priced high density projects, a streetcar stop at Broad & High would be perfectly walkable. Not to mention COSI could use the extra help.

Board member William A. Anthony Jr. said dumping light rail will help COTAs chances to get a levy approved in the fall.

 

What a crock! If anything, this gives most voters LESS of a reason to vote for a COTA levy.  Count me among them. How does that help?  COTA should be dissolved for dereliction of duty at least.  All they are doing now is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

It's time to develop (as one poster has already suggested) a new and truly regional transit authority that includes Franklin and the adjoining counties.

It seems good to me that COTA in its current state of management and operation won't have the opportunity to screw up the design of a rail system that should be done carefully.  However, I think it would be too hasty to just scrap COTA.  Sure it's not very good, especially for a city of Columbus's size, but I think it is a system that could be greatly improved if some thought were put into it, and it got new management controlling things.

 

We've talked some on here before about simple changes that COTA could make to create a more user-friendly and effecient bus system.  Here are some of my major ideas (keep in mind, I'm no transport engineer):

 

- Revamp some of the routes.  The principle times I take the bus are going up and down High Street, and It is ridiculous how many stops there are.  Simply taking out stops that occur 1 or 2 blocks from other ones would speed the bus up a lot.  I think it would also make it easier to display the routes in a cleaner and more-easily understood fashion.  That way, shelters could be put up at most stops, and they would actaully function as real transit stops and not sidewalks with signs on them. 

 

- Use an honor system with tickets (and undercover ticket agents checking randomly), or force people to buy them off of the bus and present them to the driver upon entering.  If everyone in line at each stop has to buy tickets, think of how many minutes that really holds things up. 

 

-Make a decent website with a good destination guide.  People shoule be able to see the routes all positioned together so they can actually easily determine transfers.  Riders should also be able to type in their origin and destination and easily find the best route and what times the bus will be coming.  With Google Maps and other online maps, I really don't see why this would be that difficult. 

 

-Like others have said, include communities outside Franklin county in the bus system as more commuter-type busing with several leaving in the morning and coming home at night. 

 

-Work with major employers throughout the region (but esp. downtown) to encourage employees to ride the bus.  Maybe even give advantages to employees who buy bus passes. 

 

 

 

One big problem is that COTA is not really interested in receiving input from the public or seeking help from the outside.  Instead, they seem content with just chugging along at status quo, hoping for more money so that they can create a larger ineffecient transit system that doesn't reach its potential.  I think an infusion of new key people with creative and open minds would go a long way to improving COTA and attracting ridership. 

 

 

 

 

 

Preserving COTA in some manner only preserves a bad foundation for any hope of modern transit in Columbus and Central Ohio.  Having worked there in management, I know from experience that it is a fundementally flawed organization.  You have a Board of Trustees that is nothing more than a rubber stamp for the management staff, and (with a few exceptions) most board appointees have not been what one would call the best and brightest.  The quote from Board Chairman Porter is a good example.  On what basis does he make such a claim that dumping light rail plans somehow helps them at the polls?

 

No question that your suggestion to make the system more user friendly is a good one.  But you have to have a management and board structure to make anything like this happen.  That structure simply does not exist.  Couple that with the fact that COTA's taxing district is limited to Franklin County and cannot address the transportation needs that have been generated by sprawling growth into Delaware, Licking, Fairfield, Union, Pickaway and Madison counties.

 

That said, I believe the City of Columbus' streetcar project could be the catalyst leading to a new, multi-county RTA.  It is an eminently expandable system and as it expand, COTA will become even more irrelevant than it is today.

 

But what is going to have to happen is for Mayor Coleman and the County Commissioners to reach out to the adjoining counties and demonstrate that an RTA offers significant benefits to each of us as neighbors.  We are all facing a common threat with growing traffic congestion and the impact of increasing gasoline prices.

 

COTA's decision to drop its light rail plans is evidence that they have no vision nor the desire to create one.

 

Meanwhile, our neighboring city to the East seems to be making the kind of progress that COTA is incapable of making.  Check out this story:

 

PITTSBURGH'S NORTH SHORE CONNECTOR PROJECT: The now $435 million North Shore Connector project to extend the Light Rail Transit system via twin tunnels under the Allegheny River has received two key approvals -- from outgoing U.S. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta and the Office of Management and Budget. The Port Authority received notification yesterday from Washington, D.C. The last three approvals appear on the way -- from the authority's nine-member board of directors, which has scheduled a special meeting for Thursday to award the first construction contract; from Congress after a 60-day review, which started yesterday and is usually a formality; and from the Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission, which is expected to amend the region's transportation funding program July 31 to officially authorize the extra North Shore Connector spending (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette via Alex Mayes - - posted 7/10/06)

http://railpace.com/hotnews/

 

 

I've said this a jillion times, "The difference between a world-class city and the other kind is rail." This is a greater loss than (most) Columbusites will ever imagine. Backassward municipal buggery of the most tragic order this is.

You know, following this discussion from Cincinnati where our 2002 half-cent sales tax levy for rail and more buses failed 2:1 in Hamilton County but won by 2:1 downtown and by almost that much around the University of Cincinnati, it just confirms my feeling that rail needs to go where it's wanted.

 

In Cincinnati, that means a Downtown Streetcar and a three-mile connection up to UC as logical places to start. I don't think people will demand rail until the alternatives get worse -- $4.00 or $5.00 gas, maybe. So maybe the comparative advantage for Ohio's downtowns and university areas is to position themselves as transit-rich environments where you can live without a car. Remove the parking burden that stifles development in these areas. And have a unique product to offer when the crunch comes.

 

Trying to force it into the suburbs before it's wanted will bring enough political heat to shut the whole thing down. It's not the money; it's that many suburbanites simply don't want anything to do with it. Even it were free, many wouldn't want it.

 

So downtowns and near-downtowns may have to go it alone, kind of like your mayor is doing. More power to him.

 

^That's funny, I watched Columbus on the Record on PBS (It's on again this Sunday at 11:30AM) where they discussed this and the Harvey Wasserman from the Free Press echoed what you said by stating that city of Columbus will never be a world-class city without rail and that the time couldn't have been worse with gas prices recently going up over $3 and that we'll be wishing gas was $3 soon enough.

 

But how did other sprawling cities wean themselves off cars? Surely we can look to other cities for help. Like I've suggested, tear down those freeways going through our downtown/ urban neighborhoods step-by-step and replace them with a light rail alternative which would both vastly contribute to a bustling city. I'm betting they're absolutely necessary to achieve that goal.

^I don't know if successful cities ever had to wean themselves off cars; I think they were innoculated from the get go by a population that relied on good mass transit. That reliance on a tight, workable transit grid probably contains sprawl to a degree, as people don't want to live too far beyond its reach, theoretically speaking. I might go so far as to say a healthy city rejects cars, or at the very least, renders them burdensome and obsolete.

 

Shame on Wasserman for cribbing my comments from Urban Ohio. I think I was just commenting on the bad timing of the fall-through of the COTA rail plan on one of the cost-of-gas threads here, too.

 

Ah, well, as they say, "Imitation is the sincerest form of PLAGARISM!"

 

Who next, Ann Coulter?

^I don't know if successful cities ever had to wean themselves off cars; I think they were innoculated from the get go by a population that relied on good mass transit.

 

I think this is very true. These cities that have good transit had a large population with high density BEFORE suburban sprawl really happened. Being a major tourist city also really helps create the need for mass transit infrastructure.

You don't necessarily need high "population density" to build light rail. Salt Lake City and Phoenix are good examples of this. But you do need "travel density" -- corridors that everyone uses all the time where it is difficult to expand highways. In the Midwest, these corridors generally run from the city center to the north or northeast.

 

 

You don't necessarily need high "population density" to build light rail. Salt Lake City and Phoenix are good examples of this. But you do need "travel density" -- corridors that everyone uses all the time where it is difficult to expand highways. In the Midwest, these corridors generally run from the city center to the north or northeast.

 

Very true, and I think successfully identifying this travel density is the key to selling rail to cities that have already suffered from sprawl.

 

Take a sprawl-casualty like Detroit. Beyond their obsession with car ownership, many Detroiters consider rail to be a folly because their only point of reference is The People Mover; a four car elevated train on a 2-3 mile loop through an oftentimes abandoned downtown. But if there were a commuter rail line running East-West, parallel to I-94, delivering travellers to and from Detroit Metro Airport, I think these sprawl-conditioned autophiles would begin to see the light. Then, a north-south line running parallel with I-75 would be an easier sell. Then a northwest/southeast line parallel with I-96, and so on and so on.

 

As a caustic aside, one point of resistance to rail can be illustrated by something a resident of an affluent Detroit suburb once said to me: "Well, wouldn't trains just move black people up and down (Detroit's main north-south artery) Woodward?"

 

The nastier reality is that cities without good public transit have an easier time keeping themselves segregated. And consistently, Detroit, a city with arguably the worst public transit system of any major US city, ranks as one of the most-segregated cities in the US.

^ Why have them run parallel? Just get rid of 'em!  :shoot:

^ Or flood them and stage naval battles.

I know I just posted this in another thread, but it ties into light rail. Over $600 million. That is what fixing the 1-70-1/71 split in Columbus will cost. Wouldn't that go a long way in funding light rail since we could use pre-existing lines? Why isn't money going towards that instead? Why are Sacamento and Austin kicking our ass when it comes to rail transportation? Can we kick out the idiots from ODOT that are holding us back?

Quote from: kingfish out of water on July 14, 2006, 11:06:01 PM

^I don't know if successful cities ever had to wean themselves off cars; I think they were innoculated from the get go by a population that relied on good mass transit.

 

 

I think this is very true. These cities that have good transit had a large population with high density BEFORE suburban sprawl really happened. Being a major tourist city also really helps create the need for mass transit infrastructure.

 

The Washington Metro opened in 1976--well after the area started to sprawl out into the suburban counties.  Even Arlington County, VA was seeing population loss and disinvestment by that point. 

 

Not that everything is perfect now, but thirty years later, there has been a considerable amount of transit-oriented development as the system has matured.  Yes, it takes a long time to shift development patterns, and there is still a good deal of craptastic sprawl in the suburbs.  The mere presence of a reliable, high-capacity transit system has allowed the rebirth of numerous neighborhoods with development that would otherwise be further out into the suburbs.

It's safe to say that Washington correctly identified their travel densities. Also, an excellent grasp of marketing. "Park and ride," not so sexy. But "KISS and ride." Bingo!

 

Speaking of retrofitting sprawled-out cities with mass transit, whatever became of L.A.'s subways? I rember Jay Leno joking about their construction in the early 80s. Aside from a stellar performance in 1997s "Volcano," what of them today?

LA has one subway line and three at grade light rail lines.  They also have an extension and new rail line currently underway.  In addition they have several proposals on the table for further expansion.  Wikipedia has a fairly good source of info on all this. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County_Metro_Rail

 

25-30 years from now I would not be surprised to see LA have a comprehensive system able to rival those of other comprable cities.

 

To top it all off there are proposals to create a high speed rail between LA and San Francisco.

 

I wonder why wouldn't they put light rail in the major cities first. Who lives in Cleveland and works in Cincinnati or Columbus????

 

 

An state commission hopes the high price of gas will help build support for a statewide high-speed rail system.

 

The system has a $3.2 billion price tag though.

 

The Ohio Rail Development Commission is hosting a conference in Columbus to show how high-speed rail could help the state's economy.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/07/16/hispeed_rail.html

 

 

 

 

^ That ought to be posted in the ORDC/Ohio Hub thread.

 

It's safe to say that Washington correctly identified their travel densities. Also, an excellent grasp of marketing. "Park and ride," not so sexy. But "KISS and ride." Bingo!

 

Speaking of retrofitting sprawled-out cities with mass transit, whatever became of L.A.'s subways? I rember Jay Leno joking about their construction in the early 80s. Aside from a stellar performance in 1997s "Volcano," what of them today?

 

And to add to gold42's message, LA's Red Line (heavy rail to Hollywood) carries more than 100,000 people per day. The Blue Line (to Long Beach) has more than 70,000 daily riders, making it the most heavily used light-rail line in the nation. I guess people aren't born to be car lovers after all.

Mr. Elmer's Neighborhoods

Architect and city planner Frank Elmer makes the case

for trolleys in the Columbus of today – and tomorrow

July 2006

by Jennifer Hambrick

 

It’s a Monday morning in the year 2030.  You leave your Dublin home and greet your neighbors by name as you walk to the local downtown area and catch a trolley to your office a few miles away.  Or you leave your Italian Village townhouse and ride a streetcar down High Street to German Village for breakfast at Katzinger’s.

 

Architect and city planner Frank Elmer, a founding principal architect of the Short North’s Lincoln Street Studio Ltd. and one of few fellows of both the American Institute of Architecture and the American Institute of City Planning, believes this is what life will be like in the Columbus of the not-too-distant future.  A transit system, he says, will connect the new urban centers of what are now Columbus’s suburbs.  And the streetcar will play a central role in life in both downtown Columbus and in the new urban centers.

 

Full story at http://www.shortnorth.com/FrankElmer.html

Forum visitors get history lesson on local streetcars

 

By JENNIFER WRAY

 

Columbus' future could lie in the past.  When discussing streetcars in the city, "We're talking about going back to the future," said Jeff Darbee, a historian with Benjamin D. Rickey & Co., at a Columbus Metropolitan Club forum on the topic last Wednesday.  Streetcars were present in one form or another in Columbus from the Civil War era through the mid-1950s, Darbee said.  "Today they're considered quaint, but they were considered rapid transit at the time," he said. 

 

The city was shaped by streetcars, as development sprung up in a cross-shape along High Street and streets running parallel to Broad Street, he said.  Clintonville and the Hilltop are two of the neighborhoods that resulted from that development pattern, he said.  Only when automotive and bus transportation became available for residents did the "cross" fill in, said Darbee.

 

Full story at http://www.snponline.com/NEWS8-2/8-2_colstreetcars.htm

RE John Scneider...You may be on to something. Trolleys and other forms of light rail or expanded bus service could be paid for by a citywide measure, rather than a regional gamble. If we did this in the City of Columbus, for example, a transit measure would likely pass for the reasons you mention. We already dedicate some property taxes for streets, so why not rail?

 

The only problem with this approach is that is still a tax measure that must go to the ballot, unlike highways. So what to do to avoind that?

 

Areas like St. Louis used local infrastructure as a match for federal funds for years. However, what is we could capture the value of the streets a trolley or light rail sysem would use and use that as a local match for FTA money? Right now, we can't do that, but suppose we got a change in the law thru Congress??

 

If that happened, we could unleash a huge round of transit construction and it we apply TIFs or other financing, the sky would be the limit...all without new taxes.

Taking another group to Portland to look at the streetcar on October 13th. Write to me at [email protected] if you'd like to go.

Attended the Streetcar Working Group meeting today and got an engineering preview of the projected routes.  The High Street Route seems to be the easiest to get done:

 

.... the route is straight and level.

 

.... much of High Street between Nationwide Blvd and I-70 was completely torn up and redone in the 1990's, so it will take very little "prep" work to lay track. (Ironically, when that rebuild happened, among the things the construction crews dug up were the rails from the old Columbus Streetcar system.  Totally unusable today, but amusing that we are re-creating the system in modern terms.)

 

.... very few overhead utilities, since most were buried underground by the reconstruction.

 

....  The "loops" into the Short North and German Village have easier turn radii for the trolleys.

 

The preliminary costs have not yet been determined, because the engineering firm has only just finished its inventory of the pluses and minuses of each route.  It was said that a preliminary figure for construction should be ready in about a month.

 

An economic impact study is also underway and should provide some interesting numbers.  If they are anything like what Portland, Oregon has experienced, the Columbus system will generate a huge economic impact.

 

Thanks for the update! I already sent them an email and will be attending the next public meeting if it ever happens. Like I told them, leaving out OSU is a big mistake. We only have one chance to make a good 1st impression, so let's do it right. There are about 60,000 students, the city wants to retain students, & 1st year students can't have their car on campus. How could they even possibly think about leaving OSU off the first route? I hope they shorten the southern route by ending it at the Kroger in the Brewery District if that's necessary and to have longer distances between stops than Portland.

It's not really accurate to say OSU is being left out.  There is no doubt it will be part of any future extensions of the streetcar line.  Remember that Portland started small as well and are now going into their own series of extensions.

 

Having once worked for COTA, I can tell you that most of the OSU ridership was into and out of the OSU campus and there really wasn't that much between the campus and downtown.  The only excpetion was on weekends, when there was some traffic to the Brewery District.  Now, that may have changed somewhat now that the Arena District is alive and growing (and also that much closer to OSU).

 

I guess the point is that OSU shouldn't despair.  That route scored just below the High Street route.  If demand grows as I think it will once the the service gets going, it won't be long before OSU is on the streetcar map.

 

That said, you should still show up at the public meeting in September and make sure you are heard.  I think you will find that Admiral McGinn and the rest of the working group are receptive to any imput that shows the potential for growth of this system.

I just did a quick scan of this thread and couldn't find a reference to the name of the engineering firm doing the work. Which firm is it?

E.M. H. & T.  out of Columbus.

 

Thanks. Sounds like an old interurban's name...

 

Elyria, Medina, Hooterville & Traction Co.

^^^I hear what you're saying, but I think it should be included into the first phase. COTA and the streetcar are totally different animals as we all know, and I thinks students will be more receptive to streetcars than COTA busses. Not only that, but COTA service is infrequent and would not compare with the short waiting time for the streetcars which are estimated to come around every 10 mins, not 20 or 30. That and it would make the Arena & Brewery District more accessible to students, since I'm assuming this service will go on through the wee hours of the morning. You couldn't depend on COTA for that, so it's no wonder not many would bother. What really bugs me is how long will we be waiting between extentions? Maybe I'll find out in Sept. If OSU is left our of the 1st route I'll still ride it anyway, even though bar hopping along High would  temporarily exclude campus. :wink: I really just want this thing done as quickly and compentently as possible! Oh, and any words on potential stops? I'd be worried if they're too close together since that would hinder the convienence factor. I better take a list with me.

Is he hiring?

^Go bug Ed Malicki or Morton O'Kelly @ the OSU Geography Dept.

And if you ask ColDay very nicely, he will recomend who from the Urban-Regional Planning Dept to bug about the Streetcar plans as well.

Routes and stops won't be finalized until they do the required Environmental Impact Study, which will also require numerous public meetings to seek input.

 

If this thing takes off the way I believe it will, the clamor for extensions will push additions to the original route pretty quickly.  Keep in mind that actually digging the channels for track and stringing overhead wire for a streetcar system really isn't that difficult, so construction will not take as long as a light rail system.  The difficulty lies in finding out what is beneath the streets in the way of utilities, etc. 

 

North High Street in the downtown area will not present that problem as much, because it was rebuilt several years ago and the current project engineer (EMH & T) was the engineering firm on that project (they got the maps).  That's why the High Street route, I believe, will go quickly.

The difficulty lies in finding out what is beneath the streets in the way of utilities, etc. 

 

I guess that means they better "call before you dig"

 

Seriously, of all the transit proposals in recent years in Columbus, I believe this one has the best chance of success.  Last I heard COTA wasn't going to be involved in this.  I hate to say it, but this is probably why it will succeed. 

 

I'd love to see this project coupled with some sort of renewable energy effort to supply the electricity for the line(s), or at least a portion of it.  This may be a way to diversify the funding sources for the project (Third Frontier funds?).  Maybe they could team up with Green Energy Ohio somehow too. 

COMMITTEE CONTINUES EXPLORATION OF STREETCARS IN DOWNTOWN COLUMBUS

 

By KEVIN PARKS

ThisWeek Staff Writer

 

Most people today think of streetcars, if and when they think of them at all, as echoes of a bygone day.  Those aware that modern streetcar lines are springing up in downtown business districts around the country probably view them as a sort of "light rail lite," commuter trains with faux antique appointments.

 

They're not. Streetcars are altogether different from other forms of rail transportation, and "The Admiral" wants Columbus residents to know that.  Dennis McGinn, retired vice admiral from the U.S. Navy and now senior vice president of the energy, transportation and environment division at Battelle Memorial Institute, is chairman of a committee exploring the idea that bringing streetcars back to downtown Columbus might bring the area back to its former prominence.

 

Additional information is available at the committee's Web site, http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/streetcars.php.

 

[email protected]

 

Full story at http://libpub.dispatch.com/cgi-bin/document9?

This story ran on page 02D NEWS of ThisWeek, Powell edition on 08/17/2006.

This is such a no-brainer; get to work and start laying down tracks!!!

This is such a no-brainer; get to work and start laying down tracks!!!

 

I agree, but I suppose the city needs to get all of its ducks in a row to avoid, or at least minimize, criticism.

Downtown fees floated as streetcar idea

Group outlines possible routes, costs of project

The Columbus Dispatch

Thursday, September 7, 2006

 

A Downtown streetcar system could cost $42 million or as much as $179 million to build, and be financed in part by people who park, eat and sleep Downtown.  The Downtown Streetcar Working Group released estimated construction and operating costs for the system along with some revised possible routes. 

 

One way to help cover the annual operating costs, estimated between $4.6 million and $5.7 million, would be surcharges at Downtown parking lots and garages, restaurants, hotels and other businesses near the streetcar line. For example, a $1-a-night surcharge could be assessed on the room charge of someone staying at a Downtown hotel. Those who park Downtown could be assessed a 25-cent surcharge. Those paying the surcharge would receive some kind of receipt from the parking lot, restaurant or hotel that would allow them to ride the streetcars at no extra cost. Other riders would pay the standard fare.

 

Full story at http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=210588

Awesome!  I love the idea of tying in parking with the funding.  It could drive people to park on the outskirts of downtown, pay the $0.25 surcharge, and get a free ride into downtown.  It would encourage more use of the system by offering cheap tickets to people who otherwise wouldn't use it.

The associated poll asking whether a surcharge on parking, hotel rooms, and other establishments to provide funding for the streetcar system truly sheds light on the sheer ignorance of many in Columbus in regards to basic transportation. People are still in the mindset that ANY money used to support passenger rail is a tax, and should therefore be rejected. People are saying the money is better spend on schools, police, etc. Ignorance is so horribly cruel.

^ I almost made this same post earlier today.  The responses actually made me really angry.  I feel like moving to another city.  I think I need to start looking for a job in Portland.

 

I'm generally an optimist, and I'm very optimistic about the revitalization of our downtown.  Responses like these make me realize how firmly rooted the generaly public is in thier entitlement to the suburban sprawl-happy lifestyle.  It may take two generations of people in this city to get rid of the closed minded mentality...that's IF we don't alienate the younger generations in the meantime. 

^ I hear ya. I posted a comment and included some recommended reading. People love to have opinions on everything even when they don't know shit about what they're talking about. If I'm not knowledgeable about something, I just say "I don't know". Why is that so hard for people to say?

Oh, don't pay those comments any mind. It seems like mostly boneheads like to give their 2 cents on those newspaper comment things. The Dispatch one especially encourages trolls because of its setup.

 

Just get those streetcars rolling!

Right on, jamiec.  These twits are the kind of people who keep talk radio alive: a haven for the ignorant.

Listen to the recent interview with the streetcar working group's Denny McGinn here: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wcbe/news.mediaplayer?STATION_NAME=wcbe&MEDIA_ID=528862&MEDIA_EXTENSION=mp3&MODULE=news

 

 

Crunching numbers

Group mulls costs of downtown streetcars

Thursday, September 14, 2006

By KEVIN PARKS

ThisWeek Staff Writer

 

A desire named streetcars isn't going to be cheap to satisfy for Columbus.  Members of the Downtown Streetcar Working Group held their fifth meeting last week.  It was a numbers-crunching session.  Few of the numbers were small.  For example: $66- to $81-million.

 

That's the very preliminary estimate for building the line that has so far gotten the most support from the committee members, one running along High Street between Frankfort Street in German Village and Buttles Avenue in the Short North.  If every aspect of the possible routes being considered by the group, whose members were appointed in March by Mayor Michael B. Coleman, were to be built, construction costs could range between $141.4- and $179.3-million.

 

Full story at

http://www.thisweeknews.com/?sec=clintonville&story=sites/thisweeknews/091406/Clintonville/News/091406-News-224100.html

Did some rumor checking today for Brewmaster:

 

This is straight from Mayor Coleman's office (via a contact who met with the Mayor yesterday).  The Downtown Streetcar project is not only still on track (pardon the pun), but the Mayor is very optimistic about obtaining funding for the project.  My source tells me there was not even a hint of doubt in the Mayor's voice and that the early estimates of cost (upto $100-million) is not at all disocuraging to him.

 

I will be attending the next public meeting of the Streetcar Working Group and will fill you in on the details after the meeting.

Thanks Noozer!  After reading the latest presentations from the working group again, I had more doubts about the rumor.  The costs look very reasonable and the group has some good options on the table for funding initial startup and operations.

 

I appreciate the updates!  You offer some insights that the local papers don't include.

 

Also, is the working group planning any public meetings to be held in the evenings so people don't have to take two hours off of work to attend?

I'm rather certain there is to be one more public meeting, but a date hasn't been finalized. If we are talking up to $100 mil, then we might not even get the red line which starts at $102 mil, let alone the red and green line at an estimated $141 - $179 mil, which I think would be ideal. It's looks like we'll get the blue and west green lines which are estimated to cost up to $100 mil and no more.

 

Here's a visual:

 

http://ee.dispatch.com/Repository2/TCD/2006/09/07/4/Img/Ar0040000.gif