September 23, 200618 yr I'm told by my sources on the Streetcar Working group that close to $95-million of the $100-million potential pricetag has been dientified as available. That's very good news, provided the remaining $5-million can be secured. Stay tuned.
September 23, 200618 yr I'm told by my sources on the Streetcar Working group that close to $95-million of the $100-million potential pricetag has been dientified as available. That's very good news, provided the remaining $5-million can be secured. Stay tuned. If we can at least get the blue line and one of the green lines it'll be much better than nothing. Did you happen to see a timeline of the extensions for streecar routes in other cities like Portland? I looked on their website and didn't find anything on it.
September 26, 200618 yr Interesting meeting today of the Downtown Columbus Streetcar Working Group. Preliminary numbers from an economic impact survey were released from The Danter Company and the numbers look good. Keep in mind there really is no benchmark for a streetcar system in a city like Columbus, even though Portland, Orgeon has been used as somewhat of a comparison. The survey was conducted with over 1,000 surveys, including downtown residents, downtown students and downtown employees. Question #1: Would you ride the streetcar if it were developed? Yes: Students 76.3 % Employees 70.1% Residents 81.3% All respondents 73.5% Those who responded yes were then asked: Question #2:Would the streetcar increase your frequency of trips to and within the downtown area? Students 75.8% Employees 62.9% Residents 76.5% All respondents 68.4% To be sure, there were more questions, but these were singled out by Danter as the having most significant answers. A few of the perceived advantages of the proposed Columbus Streetcar over the Portland system: 1. More streetcars than Portland 2. Columbus streetcar line runs through heart of downtown 3. Convention Center is directly on streetcar line. Here are the preliminary economic impact numbers: Over 1,500 additional units of downtown housing within five years of opening the streetcar line. This assumes varied prices & styles. The Danter survey says there is a need for more affordable housing within the downtown area housing stock. Additional development of ground level retail/commercial estimated at 120,000 to 150,000 square feet Preliminary estimated impact on the market value from development: $400-Million to $500-million There were some media at the meeting. I will keep an eye out for any stories.
September 26, 200618 yr Wow! That's promising. When I filled out that survey, I was afraid of the employees group (suburbanites) scoffing at the idea and soundly beating it down. I was gonna guess that 20% would respond saying that they would ride it. That 70% number blew me away!
September 26, 200618 yr Wow! That's promising. When I filled out that survey, I was afraid of the employees group (suburbanites) scoffing at the idea and soundly beating it down. I was gonna guess that 20% would respond saying that they would ride it. That 70% number blew me away! But note, Noozer said downtown workers, residents, and students. I'd like to see a spatial layout of those who responded to the survey. I'm guessing most respondants lived between 315 and 71 (and 70 & 270).
September 26, 200618 yr The spatial area of those surveyed was the downtown area, though most of the employees are likely not also downtown residents. Still that shows a strong desire for a way to get around downtown while at work. I work downtown and would give anything to be able to go someplace other than what's nearby for lunch, or be able to get to downtown meetings that otherwise would require me to grab my car. COTA is not always convenient. The streetcar would be running at 5-minute intervals, which makes it a much better option.
September 26, 200618 yr Only 5 minutes? I remembered seeing 7-10. The median wait time would be 2 1/2 minutes, so you'd only wait 5 minutes at most. Even on High, you'd be lucky if you waited only 5 minutes for COTA. Perhaps for downtown it could be free or the price could be reduced to increase ridership there. It's good to see a high number of people wanting to give it a try. I'm sure plenty of those that said "no" will change their minds when they try it just once. Since we as a city are n00bs when it comes to mass transit, I think the streetcars should carry a comprehensive, up-to-date guide for the neighborhoods they go through. So when a suburbanite is riding wondering what the point of it is, they'll have the answer which should prod them into exploring what the city has to offer. Not to mention highly increased accessibility to the city for visitors, like those at the convention center. I'm still crossing my fingers for the OSU route.
September 26, 200618 yr Wow! That's promising. When I filled out that survey, I was afraid of the employees group (suburbanites) scoffing at the idea and soundly beating it down. I was gonna guess that 20% would respond saying that they would ride it. That 70% number blew me away! But note, Noozer said downtown workers, residents, and students. I'd like to see a spatial layout of those who responded to the survey. I'm guessing most respondants lived between 315 and 71 (and 70 & 270). It went out to the downtown workforce of my ENTIRE company. And it's a big company! There are only 2 other people I know that I consider to live Downtown. I'm sure there are others, but the majority live in areas like Canal Winchester, Pickerington, Westerville, Powell and other places outside of 270. That's part of the reason I was so shocked by the results. Most of the people I work with are the most vanilla suburbanites.
September 27, 200618 yr What are the next steps Noozer? The website doesn't have any more meetings listed. Is there a decision making process in place for the working group or the Mayor?
September 27, 200618 yr There is supposed to be a public meeting scheduled for October, but they have not yet scheduled a date. I anticipate that will occur soon.
September 27, 200618 yr Group discusses compatibility of streetcars, light rail By JENNIFER WRAY The compatibility of streetcars and light rail systems "has surfaced as a key issue" in discussions regarding a streetcar line in downtown Columbus, said retired Adm. Dennis McGinn, head of the streetcar working group. It has been assembled to make a recommendation to Columbus officials on whether streetcars are viable in the city's core. The project is separate from any passenger rail considered by the Central Ohio Transit Authority. COTA in the past has considered the construction of a light rail system that would run as far north as the Polaris area of Columbus in Delaware County and as far south as the Brewery District. That plan was put on hold after the authority discovered it would not be able to receive federal funding for the project. The streetcar group is still in the midst of identifying funding to build and run a Downtown line. Federal, state and local grants and loans are a possibility, as are tax-increment financing districts in the area and surcharges on items such as Downtown parking and restaurant bills. Mayor Michael Coleman has pledged that such a system would neither be built nor operated by taxing residents. Full story at http://www.snponline.com/NEWS9-27/9-27_colstreetcars.html
September 27, 200618 yr Sharing the 'spine' But Doug Moore of COTA said the authority also would like to run a line along High Street because it is a high-visibility spot and would make for easy transfers. High Street "is the spine of Downtown," he said. There are plans to construct a multimodal transit terminal at Nationwide Boulevard and High Street that could aid riders in switching from light rail to streetcars and back, said Councilwoman Maryellen O'Shaughnessy. First of all...COTA shouldn't be saying things like that. They've already blown thier chance at light rail and have officially scrapped all plans for a future line. Sorry COTA, but this group shouldn't care much about your visibility. You're lucky to be invited. Secondly...I like the sound of a multimodal transit terminal south of the convention center. Talk about an exciting vision! That would make Columbus very attractive for businesses and conventioners with a link to the airport.
September 28, 200618 yr I hope that the name of the multimodal transit center wouldn't be "Multimodal Transit Center." I think that is the name of one of the stops on Houston's light rail. What names would you all suggest for not only the transit center but the stops in general?
September 28, 200618 yr ^ I don't know about the name for a potential multimodal transit center, but for the stops they would just be the intersections wouldn't they? If we want to be high tech, we should do what they do in Europe and after each stop have a recording say the name of the next stop.
September 28, 200618 yr I thought the MultiModal Transportation Terminal was no longer an active plan? Wasn't the funding for it dropped for that reason? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 28, 200618 yr The "MMT", as it was called at COTA, is no longer part of COTA's plans. It was pretty much shelved over four years ago. It was a joint venture between COTA and (to a limited degree) Nationwide Realty (which later developed the Arena District. Part of the reason was a lack of developer interest. But mostly the plan proved to be too expensive because of having to deal with encroaching development and the fact the site sits directly over a major rail junction (CP-138: where the 3-C, Panhandle Line and Buckeye (Yard) lines all converge. The railroads will not let LRT's or passenger trains stop at (the railroad term is "foul") the junction, because it shuts down their entire freight train operations for that length of time. The "fix" was just too pricey for COTA's limited budget. That's not to say a solution is impossible, just expensive. I think a more likely station stop may be just to the West in the Arena District near Neal Avenue.
September 28, 200618 yr That's not to say a solution is impossible, just expensive. I think a more likely station stop may be just to the West in the Arena District near Neal Avenue. How accessible (by pedestrians) is a Neal Avenue location to the High Street corridor? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 28, 200618 yr Neil Ave. is about 1/4 mile west of High St. and Noozer is probably right...the only good location might be there. A problem with that is that you would have to bridge the Scioto river to get back on the 3-C main or have a backup move thru the junction he mentions. Either way, there are problems.
September 28, 200618 yr And ORDC is looking at doing exactly that: bridging the Scioto River and creating "flyovers" to eliminate potential inteference between freight and passenger trains. Neil Avenue is off the High Street Corridor, but one of the "loop" routes in the Downtown Streetcar Plan would "loop" through the Arena District and right past what is now vacant land at Neil Avenue and the railroad tracks.
September 28, 200618 yr It'd be an ideal site from both an operational and convenince standpoint. There is enough room to build a terminal that would be big enogh to grow with any added service and it's off the junction. Trains could do their station work off the 3-C main and then head out. The location is good, tho I'd prefer High St. It's one of the hottest areas in the city, with a lot of new development. If the trolley connects with it, access would not be much of a problem. The only issue might be the desire of developers to keep chipping away at whatever land might be available.
October 2, 200618 yr Updates from the Sept 25th meeting have been posted to the site... http://downtowncolumbus.com/development/streetcar.php Also, there's a new e-newsletter... http://www.murphyepson.com/public/enews/streetcarnews3.html Here are a few comments that people have sent in... “I believe if at all possible, the potential streetcar line needs to include OSU. This is one of the densest, if not the densest concentration of population in the entire city (many of whom do not have cars).” “I can't think of a dingier idea than streetcars for Columbus.” They obviously run the gammut from cheerleaders to naysayers.
October 4, 200618 yr "dingier idea"?.... how about having more traffic congestion? According to the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Council, an average of between 55 and 60 new cars are registered in Franklin County per day. Amazing how critics will slam streetcars, light rail or intercity passenger rail, but rarely do they have a constructive alternative. I'm being told that upto two-thirds of the funding needed to build the initial streetcar line has already been secured and they haven't even approached the fed's for matching funds. Still waiting to hear about the next public meeting.
October 4, 200618 yr I hope they run late enough, with 17 hrs weekdays and 16 hrs weekends, they would need to start kind of late, If they started at 8AM they'd run till 1AM, 12AM weekends. I'd like to see them running at least till 1, 12 is rather early to call it a night. Reduced service at night would be preferred if it means they'd run later. One thing I'm worried about is cost. This has to be built immediately for the price estimates to mean anything. Look at the arches, the Main St bridge, I think the light rail plan got more expensive while COTA was sitting on it, and I'm sure there are more examples. We don't need this streetcar plan to be sitting around and then find out, "Oh, unforeseen price increases for ___ went up so we're going to have to delay this for X number of years."
October 4, 200618 yr ^ I'll just add that I am in fact optimistic that this will turn into action ASAP...relatively at least. With the city's bicentennial coming up in 6 years, these streetcars will need to be in place well before that happens, if we want there to be much to celebrate.
October 4, 200618 yr A public open house for an update on Downtown Streetcars — • Status of Mayor’s Working Group (Advisory board) • Proposed routes, financing options, and economic development impact potential Wednesday, October 11, 6-8 p.m. School Employees Retirement System Building 300 E. Broad St. – First Floor Conference Center Free parking is in attached garage, off Grant Avenue, to the north Please RSVP your attendance to Columbus Downtown Development Corporation at 645-5003 or [email protected] by Tuesday, October 10. If you cannot attend, but would like to offer a suggestion, please send an email to: [email protected] More information is available at www.downtowncolumbus.com (click on the streetcar link)
October 4, 200618 yr All right, you tell those Columbus naysayers I've heard about enough out of them! Anyone who opposes this doesn't get it! Adding streetcars is just another way Columbus can set itself apart! Plus I want to be able to stay at a hotel and go all over the place without driving :wink:
October 11, 200618 yr Just a reminder of the Public Meeting about the Downtown Streetcar Plan: Wednesday, October 11, 6-8 p.m. School Employees Retirement System Building 300 E. Broad St. – First Floor Conference Center Free parking is in attached garage, off Grant Avenue, to the north Please RSVP your attendance to Columbus Downtown Development Corporation at 645-5003
October 11, 200618 yr Thank you noozer! C'mon people: lets get these streetcars ROLLING! (jumps up and down doing scissor kicks and fist pumps)
October 12, 200618 yr Interesting meeting, there will be future public meetings once this goes to city council next month. If you want to speed up the process the best thing to do is write to city council http://assets.columbus.gov/Council/feedback/Feedback.htm and let them know you think it's a great idea. They need to know there is support, so what better place than Urban Ohio to get it. And if you're not from Columbus, write anyway about how envious you are. :lol:
October 12, 200618 yr I was there too. Couldn't have said it better Columbusite! Well put. Good meeting, even if we had to adjourn to the basement briefly for a tornado warning.
October 13, 200618 yr Interesting article from SF. Take note of the last three paragraphs: says a lot about the appeal of streetcars. SAN FRANCISCO Let's hear it for the old F line Market Street Railway museum opens across the Embarcadero from Ferry Building Steve Rubenstein, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, October 9, 2006 The antique streetcars, which began running in 1983 as a stopgap summer tourist attraction during the overhaul of the cable car system, has always lived in the shadow of its better-known rival. Their success persuaded Muni to make them permanent and train operators and mechanics to run and maintain them. The streetcars carry 20,000 passengers daily, about as many as the cable cars. The F line is the only system in the world to operate antique cars from other cities, including a rare open-air streetcar from England that is a lot more fun to ride than a cable car -- except that, being an English vehicle, it seems to be in the repair shop more often than not. By next year, Laubscher said, the antique cars are expected to run south along the Embarcadero, to the Caltrain station. And there is talk of opening the long-shuttered railway tunnel west of Aquatic Park and extending the F line to Fort Mason and beyond. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you go The Market Street Railway museum is open 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Wednesday through Sunday. The museum's opening exhibit tells how the streetcars helped the city recover from the 1906 quake. Permanent displays include fare boxes, a conductor's change machine and an interactive video with 100-year-old footage of a journey down Market Street. E-mail Steve Rubenstein at [email protected]. Page B - 1 URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/10/09/BAGVOLLBH11.DTL
November 7, 200618 yr I'm hearing that the Columbus Downtown Streetcar working group will have a "go or no go" decision at it's meeting Monday morning (Nov. 13th) on whether to recommend proceeding with the streetcar plan. If the decision is "go", that will mean the Mayor and City Council will be asked to formally pursue the funding to build the line. I wouldn't bet on a "no go" vote. This plan seems to have pretty universal support from not only the working group but from key leaders in and around the downtown area.
November 13, 200618 yr I'm posting the presentation that was made today. It's available on my web-hosting service at: http://members.cox.net/corridorscampaign/ColumbusStreetcars_111306.pdf (1.73mb download) The working group apparently is recommending the option shown on Page 24 of the presentation as the starter route. That's the one with the streetcar line on High Street from German Village north to Buttles, plus the Arena District loop over to Neil Avenue. Can you confirm that, Noozer? After this presentation is posted on the Columbus Downtown Development Resource Center's web site (at http://downtowncolumbus.com/development/streetcar.php ), I will delete it from my web-hosting service. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 13, 200618 yr I can confirm that the Working Group voted unanimously to advance the streetcar plan ti the Mayor and Columbus City Council. It is now up to them to decidee to pursue funding to build it. So far, upto $85-million of potential capital funding sources have been identified. The Group's recommendation was met enthusiastically by both Mayor Coleman and City Council Member Maryellen O'Shaughnessy. BTW: the Group re-voted on their preference as to which routes would the best as far as potential economic development, potential for residential development and connectivity with downtown destinations. #1 was the High Street "Blue" Line, but a close second was the "Blue" Line with an extension ("Red" Line) to OSU, followed by combinations of the Blue and both "Green" loops into the Arena District and Grant Hospital areas.
November 14, 200618 yr City’s desire for streetcar system serious Advisory panel supports feasibility of High Street route Tuesday, November 14, 2006 Tim Doulin THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH A streetcar system connecting Downtown locations is a good idea, and doable, a citizen’s advisory panel has told Mayor Michael B. Coleman. But it will be up to the mayor and the City Council to decide whether to build the circulator system and how to pay for its construction — one estimate is at least $64 million — and its operation. Coleman pledged yesterday to work with the council to explore funding sources. The mayor views a streetcar system as a potential economic catalyst for the city, but he made one thing perfectly clear. "If we can’t pay for it, it won’t be built," Coleman said. Coleman reiterated that a citywide tax increase to pay for the system is off the table, although existing city tax dollars would be used to pay for a portion of the system if it comes to pass. The mayor appointed the 40-plus member advisory panel in March to explore the feasibility of a streetcar system. Full story at http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/11/14/20061114-D5-00.html
November 14, 200618 yr That's good news! It sounds like the re-vote found the appropriate conclusion. Start small where you'll have the greatest impact, then expand to OSU when it's sucessful.
November 14, 200618 yr I think they re-voted because they would only vote for what they could most certainly afford. That being the case, it's either a blue line with a possible west green line to the Arena District, or nothing at all. I think you can arguably say a line with OSU would have the greatest results. I wonder if donations will be solicited, because if it came down to it I'd be willing.
November 15, 200618 yr COMMENTARY Let’s hop on streetcars proposal Wednesday, November 15, 2006 ANN FISHER If the thought of streetcars evokes touristy postcard images of jolly red trolleys and clanging bells, think again. The Euro-sleek version that was recommended this week for Columbus is none of that. So get over it. Streetcars are about looking forward, anticipating the boon to businesses and connecting people with their town. Check it out on downtowncolumbus.com. Visitors to Columbus would find such a system easier to use than buses, and about a million conventioneers visit Downtown annually. Most passengers, however, would be local people, including the roughly 100,000 folks who work Downtown, the 33,000 students who attend classes there and the 4,500 (and counting) who live there. Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/11/15/20061115-C1-00.html
November 16, 200618 yr Downtown streetcar plan won't be on fast track Columbus officials have other capital needs to address first. By JENNIFER WRAY Although a Downtown streetcar system has gotten a thumbs up from the Downtown Streetcar Working Group, it could face a roadblock in the form of Columbus' other capital needs. The working group presented its recommendation to Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman and City Councilwoman Maryellen O'Shaughnessy at its final meeting Monday. The panel was charged with determining whether streetcar transit could be reliable, affordable and inviting and if it could promote economic development and connect workers, residents and businesses with Downtown, said the group's chairman, retired Adm. Dennis McGinn of Battelle. "We believe that streetcars are both feasible and desirable for downtown Columbus," he said. Council and the mayor now will examine the group's recommendations to verify that such a system is right for the city, and that process likely won't be a cakewalk. Full story at http://www.snponline.com/NEWS11-15/11-15_allcolstreetcars.html
November 19, 200618 yr Many Downtown have doubts about streetcars Business owners, residents like idea but worry about who will pay for system Sunday, November 19, 2006 Debbie Gebolys and Tim Doulin THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH People who live and work near a proposed Downtown streetcar line are intrigued by the idea but wonder how Columbus would pull it off. Mayor Michael B. Coleman introduced the possibility of streetcars Downtown this year. Last week, a study group Coleman appointed to work with the Columbus Downtown Development Center recommended that the city continue to pursue the proposal. It’s up to the city to decide whether to build the circulator system and to work out the details such as routes and funding for construction and operation. A High Street route between the Short North and German Village and the Brewery District was the top vote-getter among the six routes the group considered. North and south boundaries would be Buttles Avenue and Frankfort Street, respectively. The group said enough public and private money could be available to cover the $64 million to $77 million to build the line and roughly $4.5 million a year to operate it. Full story at http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/11/19/20061119-B4-00.html
November 19, 200618 yr So we can come up with $600 million for re-doing a highway split which will do nothing to lower the # of cars of the roads and oil consumption, but spending a tenth of that on a good public transit system that will? Gee, such a tough decision. I don't see streetcars on the city council agenda, they really need to get their priorities in order. Are we going to wait until gas is $8 a gallon and then start building it at which point it will take aat least a year to build + the increase in costs that will occur? I'd really like to talk to them, but like I said, I didn't see anything about that in the upcoming agenda. :|
November 20, 200618 yr Don't wait for it to show up on their agenda. Say something. Show up at a council meeting during the public comment session. You made some good points in your post. Make them in front of people who can make decisions.
November 20, 200618 yr OK then, I'll prepare something. I just have to make sure I don't go over the 3 minute limit.
November 21, 200618 yr They were actually very aware of peak oil and are all for the streetcars, but they want to get the caps done first on the I71-70 split and have them ready for the streetcars. It looks like the problem is getting word out, which is where the local media should come in. There were apparently a number of events held earlier this year on peak oil, but I never heard of them and I doubt many other people did either. Of course, after I left it just occured to me, why wasn't there an option to have the streetcars go from downtown or the Short North up to OSU or Clintonville? That's a question that I'm going to ask the streetcar group. It doesn't make sense to me that we'd wait 5 years to have any streetcar routes up and running just because they can't go to German Village and the Brewery District because of the work on the split, which won't affect streetcars in the northern parts of the city. Just let people there know they need to fix the split first and then cap it so that they'll get an extensioin route later. I am missing something that's obvious? Oh, and I'll be keeping in touch with a couple of people working with city council. I just got an email from Lelia Cady who is the legislative aide to O'Shaughnessy who suggested forming a grassroots citizens group for the streetcars. I figure some here might have an interest.
November 21, 200618 yr A local grass-roots group is a terrific idea, but I wouldn't limit it to advocating for just the streetcar plan. In fact, there is a organization that has been advocating for better local transit: 1-Thousand Friends of Central Ohio .... http://1kco.org/ . The point is that the streetcar line is not meant to stretch terribly far beyond the various options that have been mapped out so far. Streetcars, by deifinition, are primarily local circulators and ideally suited for downtown and near-downtown areas. What we also need to be advocating to city council, counter commissioners and local mayors is the need for light rail, which can connect to a streetcar system ... perhaps someday streetcars that circulate in the "downtowns" of Columbus suburbs like Grandview, Westerville, Grove City, Worthington, Dublin, Hilliard, etc. A better integrated local transit system can also link to the intercity passenger rail system now being planned under the Ohio Hub Study, which will also link high-speed rail to major airports and transit systems in other cities. COTA is clearly not meeting that need or even providing the vision to "get there from here" in our future. 1KCO (of which I am a member) is an organization that can help get that movement toward a better transit future started. They are already on record as being critical of COTA's decision to drop their light rail plans. COTA's board of trustees is appointed by local mayors and county commissioners. That is where the pressure for change must begin, if COTA's managment and vision is to change. It may mean creating a whole new and truly regional transportation authority. But change doesn't come unless you talk and advocate to those who can make change.
November 21, 200618 yr I'll be joining that group, thanks for the link. I do understand we don't want streetcar lines to be too long because they simply aren't as fast as light-rail, I think at least the southern part of Clintonville could be included, or am I thinking north campus, up around Hudson & Dodridge? I know Bexley was a streetcar suburb even though it's pretty far from downtown for a streetcar route, so something that far could be possible, or maybe they had their own streetcar system that was connected to another one. Your speculation about each suburb having its own streetcar was mentioned in an article in the Short North Gazette http://www.shortnorth.com/FrankElmer.html . I'll be sure to badger whoever needs to be. So I guess a local pro-mass transit group would be what you're suggesting?
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