November 30, 200618 yr MORPC keen on streetcars City project trumps I-71/70 caps, cargo hub By Debbie Gebolys The Columbus Dispatch Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:15 AM Regional planners say a proposed Downtown streetcar line is a higher priority than caps over the I-70/71 split and a Rickenbacker Airport cargo hub. Mayor Michael B. Coleman has proposed bringing streetcars to High Street. A Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission committee recommended yesterday that the streetcar project get $20 million in federal funds, more than any other project on its list. The MORPC group recommended against a $25 million request to build caps over the highway and $11.6 million for Rickenbacker. Full story at http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=229948
November 30, 200618 yr Please, everyone that cares about the Columbus Streetcar, visit the Columbus Dispatch's website and vote in favor of the streetcar and write something positive about it in the comment section: http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=229961&RS=11 Right now 5% say the streetcar is more important than the caps over the I-70/71 Split while 85% say the caps are more important. We really need to sway that survey. Only 20 people have voted so far, and I know there are at least that many on this forum that could lend a supporting hand. I know caps would be nice, but the streetcar has the potential to connect a lot more people to downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods. Thanks for the Help!
November 30, 200618 yr Just shows how publicty for the streetcar has not been handled well. We need that pro-transit grassroots org, anyone willing to take part? On the top right you can send an email to O'Shaughnessy's aide if you're interested: http://www.columbuscitycouncil.org/council_members/oshaughnessy.asp Oh! It's down to 80%!...yay?
December 1, 200618 yr I voted "yes" for the streetcars, but the question posed by the Dispatch is rather unfair. All three of these projects are worthy of funding and necessary. It shows how litttle the Dispatch editorial staff understands transportation, or at least it exposes a rather cynical attitude on their part by pitting these projects against the other.
December 1, 200618 yr Yeah, I did point out that we should have both, not one or the other, but that the streetcars are more important in any case. Of course, the lack of understanding on the part of the Dispatch is passed on to it's readers. We need some sort of name brand experts to call them out on this issue.
December 1, 200618 yr As of 11:45 PM.... the Disptach poll numbers... The Hot Issue: Do you think Downtown streetcars are more important than caps over the I-70/71 split? 17% Yes 76% No 7% Don’t Care
December 7, 200618 yr The Other Paper sucks. I encourage you to tell them so, and why. For some good source material, see the Schumann study that was summarized at... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=9684.msg144809#msg144809 ++++++++++++++++ http://www.theotherpaper.com/TOP12-7/12-7_coverstory.html RUNAWAY TRAIN? A Downtown streetcar system is about to snatch millions from other projects By Erik Johns / December 7, 2006 It was just a few sentences in a much larger speech. Mayor Mike Coleman gleefully envisioned a Downtown with streetcars humming along Broad and High streets. The trolleys would shuttle people around the city core without the physical nuisance of walking or the emotional trauma of taking a COTA bus. But Coleman inserted an important caveat: “It must be affordable to build and operate without a citywide tax increase.” The idea got its requisite ovation during the 2006 State of the City address in February, and Coleman moved on to talk about other things. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 8, 200618 yr RUNAWAY TRAIN? A Downtown streetcar system is about to snatch millions from other projects By Erik Johns / December 7, 2006 It was just a few sentences in a much larger speech. Mayor Mike Coleman gleefully envisioned a Downtown with streetcars humming along Broad and High streets. The trolleys would shuttle people around the city core without the physical nuisance of walking or the emotional trauma of taking a COTA bus. But Coleman inserted an important caveat: “It must be affordable to build and operate without a citywide tax increase.” The idea got its requisite ovation during the 2006 State of the City address in February, and Coleman moved on to talk about other things. But something strange happened. People actually got excited at the prospect of ripping up busy streets and spending millions of dollars on the throwback transit system. Full story at http://www.theotherpaper.com/TOP12-7/12-7_coverstory.html
December 8, 200618 yr There is one very glaring error in the above story and that is reporter Erik Johns statement that regarding the 42 member Streetcar Advisory Group (quote) "there is not one transit expert among them." This is a gross factual error. There are in fact, at least a half-dozen people either on the working group or the project leadership team with extensive transit and logistics experience. The remainder of the group are top notch people from the business, retail, arts, downtown residential and real estate development community. ......There is one current (an transportation engineer) and two former COTA employees involved in the project (one of those now works for ORDC), .......a transportation planning and TOD expert with decades of experience, .......a representative of the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission who is a certified transportation planner/ engneer, .......and, oh yes, a retired U.S. Navy Admiral who commanded whole fleets of ships, people and equipment and knows how to move all of them in a fast, efficient manner. Admiral (Ret) Dennis McGinn is today the VP of Transpoirtation Research at Battelle Memorial Institute. Worse, the headline of this cover story suggests that this project was undertaken solely because it was "fun" and "whimsical". Why is it that this major transportation investment .... one which BTW is only the start of a larger system .... is any less serious or important than a major highway or aviation project? If you care at all about this project, I would urge you to write or e-mail a letter to The Other Paper. You can link to their website via the story link below and there is a subsequent link for letters to the editor. I might also point out that this reporter, to my knowledge, has never attended a single meeting of the Streetcar Working Group, unlike the reporters whose stories have been posted in this thread. Go back and look at these stories and I'm sure you can tell the difference in both quality and accuracy.
December 8, 200618 yr Noozer - I beat you to posting the article. Haha. But the message of your last paragraph needs to be put in any letter to the Other Paper. It exposes a glaring hypocrisy in the reporter's own critique. The writer never bothered to learn about the project yet that never stopped him from forming his own opinion of it and let his opinion intrude into the story. It's not even a case of the pot calling the kettle black, because the streetcar working group was diversely experienced in transportation, land use, business etc. and, when they did not have the information they needed to make a balanced decision, they took the time to get it. The reporter took no such steps. An incompetent criticized the adept. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 8, 200618 yr This was not in reply to the Other Paper article, but this letter to the editor of the Columbus Dispatch goes to one of the issues the article raised, since it was originally raised in the Dispatch. City supports caps, streetcars and hub Friday, December 08, 2006 The Nov. 30 Dispatch article "MORPC keen on streetcars" has caused some confusion, leaving the impression with some that the city is not supporting important projects such as the I-70/71 caps or the Advanced Logistics Hub at Rickenbacker Airport. Nothing could be further from the truth. At no time has Mayor Michael B. Coleman or the city endorsed, proposed or even considered a project vs.-project mentality, as some have interpreted from the story. Our administration has been the leading champion of I-70/71 plaza caps and wider bridges to support some form of economic development, Downtown streetcars and the Advanced Logistics Hub from the start, and we will continue to fight for fair funding for the projects. Columbus is growing fast as a 21 st-century city, and each of these projects will help build our economy for the future. HENRY GUZMAN Director Columbus Department of Public Service Full letter at http://www.dispatch.com/editorials-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/12/08/20061208-A14-05.html
December 8, 200618 yr Noozer - I beat you to posting the article. Haha. But the message of your last paragraph needs to be put in any letter to the Other Paper. It exposes a glaring hypocrisy in the reporter's own critique. The writer never bothered to learn about the project yet that never stopped him from forming his own opinion of it and let his opinion intrude into the story. It's not even a case of the pot calling the kettle black, because the streetcar working group was diversely experienced in transportation, land use, business etc. and, when they did not have the information they needed to make a balanced decision, they took the time to get it. The reporter took no such steps. An incompetent criticized the adept. The Other Paper is like Cleveland Scene at times: just a hack newspaper, IMHO.
December 8, 200618 yr The "Other Paper" is the liberal brother to the "This Week (insert Central Ohio community of choice)". Both are owned by the Dispatch.
December 8, 200618 yr The "Other Paper" is the liberal brother to the "This Week (insert Central Ohio community of choice)". Both are owned by the Dispatch. How sad is that? Answer: VERY.
December 9, 200618 yr ^ That's correct Noozer. The Dispatch owns Alive. I don't believe they are affiliated with Suburban News Publications (This Week and The Other Paper). Regardless...this article will make me question the accuracy and level of research in every article from The Other Paper from here on. A poor piece at best.
December 11, 200618 yr The Other Paper is owned by Suburban News Publications, I believe. And isn't Suburban News owned by the Wolfe Family?
December 11, 200618 yr No. The Wolfes own the Dispatch, WBNS-TV, WBNS-Radio (1460 AM & 97.1FM),WTHR-TV (Indianapolis), This Week Newspapers, Columbus Alive (One of the Wolfe daughters is the publisher) They also have a financial interest in the Columbus Blue Jackets (NHL).
December 12, 200618 yr That's correct Noozer. The Dispatch owns Alive. I don't believe they are affiliated with Suburban News Publications (This Week and The Other Paper). Phew!
December 12, 200618 yr The "Other Paper" is the liberal brother to the "This Week (insert Central Ohio community of choice)". Both are owned by the Dispatch. If The Other Paper so "liberal" how come they're anti-mass transit/pro-car?
December 12, 200618 yr Hi everyone... I hope everyone is sending the Other Paper a loud and clear message that their article is just rubbish. Go get 'em! Here's my letter: Dear Mr. Johns: I'll be direct: The article, "Runaway Train" appears to be a case of lazy journalism or an anti-rail hatchet job. To give well known anti-rail critic Randal O'Toole a full column without similar treatment for trolley proponents is a real disservice to your readers and the community as a whole and raises serious questions about your credibility. Asking O'Toole about transit or transportation is like asking Karl Marx about the U.S. economy. The guy is well known in transit circles as an anti-rail hit man and yet here he is, quoted at great length. Where are the quotes from the Trolley Group, 1000 Friends of Central Ohio, All Aboard Ohio or other supporters? Balance would seem to dictate that they be quoted, but they are conspicuously absent. Why? Aside from this, it appears that the article is an attempt at sensationalism by trying to create a conflict between supporters of the trolley, I-70/I-71 caps and Rickenbacker, when many of these people support all three. You go so far as to suggest there was an ulterior motive for not running on Broad St. to COSI, when a check of the facts would have revealed that the Broad St. bridge across the Scioto would have had to have been rebuilt to support the trolley, an expensive item. Maybe in the future you might expend a little energy on this topic and try to write something a bit more objective. If you do, you might see that things are not quite the way they seem. You might find that there are real-world, rational reasons why these trolleys were built. If there had been real balance to your story, you might have noted the successes in other cities that are leading others to want to do the same here. You might find that places like Denver and San Diego, and closer to home, St. Louis, are leaping far ahead of us by being willing to embrace light rail or trolleys. You might find that in many cases, the trolleys have fueled a rebirth of their downtown their areas, something we should want here. You might also find that there is a significant portion of Columbus's population (especially in the area the trolley will serve) who can't or don't want to drive, people who pay property taxes for roads, whether they use them or not. Why? Because it is in the community interest to do so. The same logic should apply to the trolley, which is just as worthy as any highway project. I find it incredible that you pass off the leadership of Mayor Coleman, and the Trolley Working Group by saying the trolley is "a whimsical idea." For too long city leaders were content with the status quo, which is deadly in an ever-changing, competitive world. We need leaders who have vision, tempered by a sense of what is possible and we are seeing that now in Mayor Coleman. We need a choice. The trolley offers as painless a way to do this as is humanly possible. To be sure there will be a cost, but it will be far outweighed by the good it does the community. Others are building trolleys and light rail for hard-nosed, practical reasons such as economic development, not as an exercise in nostalgia. We should do the same here. Sincerely,
December 13, 200618 yr Nice job BuckeyeB. I bet next, they'll have an article by Ronald Utt or Joe Vranich denigrating the Ohio Hub.
December 13, 200618 yr We can only hope that Randal O'Toole gets to make a personal appearance in Columbus. That will turn the skeptics to supporters. Todd Litman, who is with the Victoria Transport Policy Institute, critiques O'Toole's (and others') arguments in this doc. It's a great read: http://www.vtpi.org/railcrit.pdf
December 13, 200618 yr I wish Cleveland had this kind of push in the public sector to expand our rail lines! I am jealous....good for you Cbus!
December 13, 200618 yr Until they get a rail line built, Columbus can stay jealous of us. And keep this stat in mind: Cleveland has the largest rail transit system (34 route miles) between Chicago/St. Louis and the East Coast cities. We are also the only one in the same region which has its airport served by rail transit. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 13, 200618 yr Good luck getting your letter in the Other Paper. The Dispatch has yet to run my stern missive for their heads-up-their-ass piece about how the COTA levy should be spent (more buses). Hmm. Maybe I souldn'tve opened the letter with the heads-up-their-ass line.
December 13, 200618 yr Ha ha, yes telling them they have their heads up their asses isn't going to help your cause :drunk: Aside from these idiot naysayers and their journalistic enablers, who publish their dreck, our biggest enemy is inertia. "We always did things that way" is no excuse. The recent experience with new trains in Illinois proves that. First, let's put these jerks in their place. Then let's get to work and push for change. Get involved. Join local organizations like 1000 Friends of Central Ohio [email protected] or All Aboard Ohio www.allaboardohio.org
December 13, 200618 yr Until they get a rail line built, Columbus can stay jealous of us. And keep this stat in mind: Cleveland has the largest rail transit system (34 route miles) between Chicago/St. Louis and the East Coast cities. We are also the only one in the same region which has its airport served by rail transit. And that helps Columbus how...? "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 13, 200618 yr ^ So when Cleveland becomes part of the Cbus annex, they will have a rail line already in place!
December 13, 200618 yr And that helps Columbus how...? By recognizing that Columbus should have at least as much rail transit as Cleveland has. And so should Cincinnati, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Indianapolis.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 13, 200618 yr And that helps Columbus how...? By recognizing that Columbus should have at least as much rail transit as Cleveland has. And so should Cincinnati, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Indianapolis.... Again...how does this help Columbus instead of pointing out the lack of transit? "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 13, 200618 yr Until they get a rail line built, Columbus can stay jealous of us. And keep this stat in mind: Cleveland has the largest rail transit system (34 route miles) between Chicago/St. Louis and the East Coast cities. We are also the only one in the same region which has its airport served by rail transit. ^careful, you are living in the past! atlanta has 46 route miles and rail to the airport. and toronto has 38.5 miles on it's four lines, not counting streetcars and commuter. after all you wanted atlanta and toronto included in that kind of statement on the biggest building discussion thread, remember?
December 13, 200618 yr Again...how does this help Columbus instead of pointing out the lack of transit? Shame can be a powerful source of motivation. (Thankfully, I'm too nice of a person to say "and you should know that, ColDayMan"). after all you wanted atlanta and toronto included in that kind of statement on the biggest building discussion thread, remember? Shhhh. Besides, I just wanted to know what "between" meant. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 14, 200618 yr Again...how does this help Columbus instead of pointing out the lack of transit? Shame can be a powerful source of motivation. (Thankfully, I'm too nice of a person to say "and you should know that, ColDayMan"). after all you wanted atlanta and toronto included in that kind of statement on the biggest building discussion thread, remember? Shhhh. Besides, I just wanted to know what "between" meant. Shame can also be a useless emotion. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 14, 200618 yr ^Cleveland's TOD investment: $0 Detroit's/Buffalo/Cincinnati/Columbus TOD Investment: $0 The day cleveland starts lecturing............
December 14, 200618 yr Well, Cleveland does have some nice Park N Rides... "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 14, 200618 yr *Shudders* "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 14, 200618 yr I still believe the Shaker square developments old and new count for something and Tower city is kind of unique in the midwest to... High density and rail. Now for the rest of the city... and Ohio.
December 14, 200618 yr ^Cleveland's TOD investment: $0 Detroit's/Buffalo/Cincinnati/Columbus TOD Investment: $0 The day cleveland starts lecturing............ Not true. See: http://www.gcrta.org/pdf/presentations/2006-12-05-E120_Station.pdf http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1977.msg140058#msg140058 Look for more news on the project at the following link, as Shaker Heights and RTA hire a consultant to oversee more transit-supportive land uses at Lee and Van Aken: http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/planning/ShakerTownCenterAreaRedevelopment.asp Two posts on the same subject (first an article, then renderings): http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1977.msg96635#msg96635 http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1977.msg96839#msg96839 http://www.windermererenaissance.org/index.htm http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3702.msg36031#msg36031 And the warehouse conversions along the West 10th Street section of the Flats all happened after the Waterfront Line went in. Some were stalled plans that got a boost from the project's announcement in 1994, and the plans were redesigned to provide entrances and retail spaces facing the rail line. And I don't know if I would put the EcoVillage n in the same category, but it was sought at the West 65th station by design. So there! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 14, 200618 yr ^Cleveland's TOD investment: $0 Detroit's/Buffalo/Cincinnati/Columbus TOD Investment: $0 The day cleveland starts lecturing............ Hey now. Let's not forget Detroit's own The People Mover.
December 14, 200618 yr ^Cleveland's TOD investment: $0 Detroit's/Buffalo/Cincinnati/Columbus TOD Investment: $0 The day cleveland starts lecturing............ Hey now. Let's not forget Detroit's own The People Mover. well buffalo has heavy rail too (or is it light?)
December 14, 200618 yr (It's light, I believe) "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 14, 200618 yr Buffalo's is light rail, but a long section of it is in subway. Pittsburgh's is also light-rail, with the downtown portion is in a subway. While Buffalo's was built entirely in the 1980s, Pittsburgh's old rail transit routes were completely rebuilt in the 1980s (including construction of the downtown subway). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 21, 200618 yr City officials: Columbus still on track for streetcars Downtown By JENNIFER WRAY Suburban News Publications Ten months after Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman announced his vision for a streetcar line in the city's core, the process to make that vision reality is still chugging along. A Streetcar Working Group, composed of business, civic and neighborhood representatives, was named by Coleman in March, and has been meeting since April. During that time, the group and its subgroups met more than 30 times, including holding town hall-style meetings for public input, said Mike Reese, Coleman's chief policy advisor and soon-to-be chief of staff, at a City Council briefing on the matter last Wednesday. Following the group's work, it appears bringing streetcars to Columbus is feasible, said Reese. The working group's formal recommendation represents the "beginning of what's going to be a continuing discussion," said Councilwoman Maryellen O'Shaughnessy, chairwoman of council's Public Service and Transportation Committee. One significant obstacle will be nailing down the sources needed to build and operate the system, which the mayor pledged would not require a tax increase. "Once we get through the major hurdle of funding, this thing can be built in a year and a half," O'Shaughnessy said. Full story at http://www.snponline.com/NEWS12-20/12-20_colstreetcars.html
December 21, 200618 yr If you guys haven't picked up this week's copy of The Other Paper yet, check it out. There are two good letters to the editor blasting the "Runaway Train" article. I suspect some on this board may know who they're from ;)
December 22, 200618 yr I just read the above article and still nothing about when construction might start. It seems like they want work on the split to be done first and then have the streetcar afterwards. So I still have a big "WTF!?" over my head.
December 22, 200618 yr They really can't name a target date for construction until the $$$$ are secured and the project is at least in the beginning of the engineering stage. But given the fact the the Mayor and the business interests want to be able to point to this as a major accomplishment, the pressure will be on to push this into the construction phase as quickly as possible. BTW: There are more letters to the editor in this weeks edition of The Other Paper, including a very good one from a local rail advocate, Bill Hutchison, and a couple incomprehensible letters from a couple of people (how do I put this politely?).... "on the fringe."
December 23, 200618 yr ^ HAHAHA! I loved the letter from the Reverend! Good for a laugh. I have a tiny bit more respect for them now that they've run two weeks worth of letters rightly bashing that crap article. Still, thier credibility is in the dumps.
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