December 23, 200618 yr A letter that appeared in the 12/23/06 issue of The Dispatch: Columbus leaders are flirting with a streetcar named undesirable Reading E.W. Franks’ Monday letter to the editor sparked some latent animosity that has been brewing within me for quite some time. Franks’ letter, in spite of the satire, is an excellent plan. As a former resident of Pittsburgh, I feel qualified to relate the horrors of life in a town with streetcars. Unlike Franks, I spent 20 years riding the old iron monsters, and believe me, there was never a day that I would have thanked the city of Pittsburgh for granting us such a pleasurable experience. Mayor Michael B. Coleman describes the iron monsters like they are going to revitalize the crumbling Downtown area. I have news for him. If anything, they will be the scourge of the city. If COTA has trouble getting people to ride buses, streetcars will send the city back 100 years. Unless you are talking about "off street" light-rail transit, streetcars on High Street are not the answer. I doubt our mayor has ever ridden in a streetcar. Allow me to mention a few inconveniences Columbus residents have not been introduced to. The tracks will take up the entire roadway on High Street. There will be no pulling over to the curb, like the buses can, to allow people to get off and on. Everything behind the car will stop at each intersection. There is no passing the streetcar. If the tracks are placed close to the curb, you can kiss any parking along High Street goodbye, and so businesses will suffer. The streetcar controls the traffic flow, and streetcars are slow. When cars did 3 mph and streetcars did 20 mph, they were popular. Let us not be fooled, streetcars must stop at red lights, too. In the winter when it snows, the streetcars can come to a standstill. If there is parking along the roadway, every car must be parked close enough to the curb so the streetcar can pass. If the snow is piled close to the curb, preventing cars from parking close to the curb, the streetcar will not be able to pass. This causes great frustration for the conductor, as well as the passengers hoping to get to work on time. Often the conductor must get out of the streetcar and search for the driver so that he can move the car. Delivery trucks that necessarily double park will be a nuisance to the streetcars. The conductor must ding-ding the bell until the driver comes out to move the vehicle. There are very tight areas in the Short North and German Village where these problems will be greater. Let’s not forget about the unsightly overhead cables that will block the view of our scenic environment. I wonder why Coleman didn’t take his search committee to Pittsburgh or ask the thousands of residents living here in Columbus who lived there and who experienced this great idea of his. Maybe he would have found out why the streetcars are no longer in existence there. Why, instead, officials went to underground light rail and why Pittsburgh has a Streetcar Museum. CLAUDIA SULLIVAN Reynoldsburg More like Grumbles McFussypants from Reynoldsburg...
December 23, 200618 yr Mayor Michael B. Coleman describes the iron monsters like they are going to revitalize the crumbling Downtown area. Crumbling? Desolate, maybe. But crumbling? Interesting window into Ms. Sullivan's perception of Downtown. I have news for him. If anything, they will be the scourge of the city. If COTA has trouble getting people to ride buses, streetcars will send the city back 100 years. To 1907, when Columbus was experiencing explosive growth and a flourishing commerce? Heaven forfend. Unless you are talking about "off street" light-rail transit, streetcars on High Street are not the answer. Yes, we'll put the rails on the sidewalks or in the alleys. Perfect plan, Ms. Sullivan. I doubt our mayor has ever ridden in a streetcar. She's SO sassy! Allow me to mention a few inconveniences Columbus residents have not been introduced to. Morse Road. 161. Polaris. 70/71 split. I think Columbus residents are pretty much inconvenience experts by now. But go ahead... The tracks will take up the entire roadway on High Street. There will be no pulling over to the curb, like the buses can, to allow people to get off and on. Everything behind the car will stop at each intersection. There is no passing the streetcar. If the tracks are placed close to the curb, you can kiss any parking along High Street goodbye, and so businesses will suffer. Because rapid traffic flow is ideal for shopping, and consumers would NEVER travel by streetcar. The streetcar controls the traffic flow, and streetcars are slow. When cars did 3 mph and streetcars did 20 mph, they were popular. The only place I've ever seen a car traveling 3MPH is on Polaris Parkway. Let us not be fooled, streetcars must stop at red lights, too. Wait: I was told streetcars could run over pedestrians with impunity. No fair! In the winter when it snows, the streetcars can come to a standstill. If there is parking along the roadway, every car must be parked close enough to the curb so the streetcar can pass. Many things come to a standstill when it snows. Such as freeways. If the snow is piled close to the curb, preventing cars from parking close to the curb, the streetcar will not be able to pass. This causes great frustration for the conductor, as well as the passengers hoping to get to work on time. Often the conductor must get out of the streetcar and search for the driver so that he can move the car. Because damn it, if people can't park anywhere the hell they want, any damn way they want, then the terrorists have won. Delivery trucks that necessarily double park will be a nuisance to the streetcars. The conductor must ding-ding the bell until the driver comes out to move the vehicle. As opposed the melodious blare of car horns. There are very tight areas in the Short North and German Village where these problems will be greater. Let’s not forget about the unsightly overhead cables that will block the view of our scenic environment. High St. is a highway as it passes German Village, and if overhead wires are a distraction we'd better remove the unsightly arches in the Short North. I wonder why Coleman didn’t take his search committee to Pittsburgh or ask the thousands of residents living here in Columbus who lived there and who experienced this great idea of his. Maybe you should've made the drive in from Reynoldsburg to one of the DOZENS OF PUBLIC MEETINGS! Maybe he would have found out why the streetcars are no longer in existence there. Why, instead, officials went to underground light rail and why Pittsburgh has a Streetcar Museum. All of Detroit's streetcars are in museums, too. Maybe Columbus should model their system on Detroit's winning formula.
December 25, 200618 yr Thanks Ms. Sullivan! Now I'm going to have nightmares about "Old Iron Monsters" roaming the streets for days!!!
December 25, 200618 yr ^Cleveland's TOD investment: $0 Detroit's/Buffalo/Cincinnati/Columbus TOD Investment: $0 The day cleveland starts lecturing............ Hey now. Let's not forget Detroit's own The People Mover. detroit's own? the folks in miami beg to differ. that reminds me i made a vhs video of an entire trip around the miami people mover -- i should dig it out & transfer it to dvd sometime before it falls apart. heh.
December 27, 200618 yr I saw that LTTE before and didn't want to comment on it since I wanted to enjoy Christmas. Now, I do concede that it may hinder those not using the streetcars, but look at any great city and you will find not a one is easy to get around in by car. They are easy to get around by foot, bicycle, bus, scooter, rail, etc, unless your idea of a great city is one with lots of wide streets, surface lots, & parking garages. I'm glad kingfish vented so that I didn't have to.
December 27, 200618 yr ...unless your idea of a great city is one with lots of wide streets, surface lots, & parking garages. Welcome to Columbus, Ohio: THE GREATEST CITY IN THE WORLD! I'm glad kingfish vented so that I didn't have to. No. Please. Vent away. All's I got is pissy one-liners. I'd like to hear the science behind why Ms. Sullivan is WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
December 27, 200618 yr ^Well, I'm sure we're a contender, but I'll just assume without looking into this matter any further that there are other large cities that beat us when it comes to parking. I'll just sum it up with the fact that walkability is better than...driveability(?). Now, I don't want to put words in someone elses mouth, but I will anyway. From her article she is critical of downtown, but not a bad word on Reynoldsburg, so she would rather downtown were like Reynoldsburg. Have you BEEN to Reynoldsburg? It sure is easy to drive through (except for 6-9AM, 12-1PM, 4-7PM), there's plenty of parking in front of the ugly deteriorating stripmalls (I predict Reynoldsburg will become the next Whitehall and Whitehall will become the next near east) and banning the good chance you run into traffic, it's easy enough to drive through without looking back. The woman lives in Reynoldsburg and likes it, need I say more? Oh, and if it hasn't been done, someone take pics of downtown Reynoldsburg so that Columbus can stare in awe at its superiority. I'm sorry, but the fact is that while energy can't be created or destroyed, once used up we can never get it back in a form we can utilize, and to use large amounts of that up on ugly, wasteful sprawling suburbs like Reynoldsburg is indefensible.
December 28, 200618 yr From her article she is critical of downtown, but not a bad word on Reynoldsburg, so she would rather downtown were like Reynoldsburg. Have you BEEN to Reynoldsburg? It sure is easy to drive through (except for 6-9AM, 12-1PM, 4-7PM), there's plenty of parking in front of the ugly deteriorating stripmalls (I predict Reynoldsburg will become the next Whitehall and Whitehall will become the next near east) and banning the good chance you run into traffic... It's been a couple of years since I last visited Reynoldsburg (maybe before I left for Louisiana), But Reynoldsburg of the 21st Century certainly looks worse than the Reynoldsburg of 1982-3 that my parents had us do a "pit stop" (One year for my parents between East Claridon and Marengo) at.
December 28, 200618 yr From the Reynoldsburg Visitors Bureau Website: Shopping For the shopper in you hunt for more deals and unusual treasures in Reynoldsburg, where shoppers flock to scour the shelves at the JC Penney Outlet. This mega-department store offers 25 to 60 percent off overstocked and discounted store merchandise every day. Olde Town Reynoldsburg also draws antiques and arts-and crafts-fans who love to pursue the intimae shops and boutiques that like the quaint historic area. The addition of Taylor Square (http://www.nobleprop.com/TaylorSq.html) to the Reynoldsburg area has added a new dimension to the great shopping and dining opportunities in town. A must see when you are here is Just Because Gifts and More, your headquarters for Boyd's Bears. Food and Lodging Hospitality is another part of what makes this community so special. Reynoldsburg features an attractive selection of over 60 restaurants that make you feel right at home. Dining choices includes everything from fast food, national chains to scrumptious pasta and fresh-baked bread at Scali's Italian Restaurant to tender steaks and award winning ribs at the Hickory House. With so many choices everyone will enjoy their dining experience in Reynoldsburg. :clap:
December 29, 200618 yr From the Reynoldsburg Visitors Bureau Website: Shopping For the shopper in you hunt for more deals and unusual treasures in Reynoldsburg, where shoppers flock to scour the shelves at the JC Penney Outlet. This mega-department store offers 25 to 60 percent off overstocked and discounted store merchandise every day. Been in business for 25-30 years now. I can remember when it that JC Penney Outlet was by itself (the sprawl infill started in earnest out there by 1985) Olde Town Reynoldsburg also draws antiques and arts-and crafts-fans who love to pursue the intimae shops and boutiques that like the quaint historic area. I remember the dinner that used to be at the corner of Lancaster and Main, the Hardware store, one block over and on the other side of Main, the pizza parlor in the same block. DT Reynoldsburg was in trouble when Brice Rd (from Livingston to south of I-70) and Barnaby Plaza (strip mall at Main & I-270) became the "hot places" in the early 80s. They have done several different "streetscapes" (using that term loosely) along Main St since 1988. All the retail hasn't helped (see below). The addition of Taylor Square (http://www.nobleprop.com/TaylorSq.html) to the Reynoldsburg area has added a new dimension to the great shopping and dining opportunities in town. A must see when you are here is Just Because Gifts and More, your headquarters for Boyd's Bears. When my parents moved us to "the Middle of Nowhere" (aka SW Morrow County) in June,1983 there were 3 malls within Reynoldsburg corporate limits. The forementioned Baranaby Mall, some shopping center near Blacklick Creek (anchored by a Krogers & a Super Duper) and another mini strip mall near Wagoner Rd (all along Main St, and not counting the stand alone K-Mart at Brice & Main and the Frank Nursery & Gifts at Broad & Lancaster). There is at least 15 malls, or collection of shops if you'd like, within Reynoldsburg along Broad, Main, Livingston, Brice, N. & S. Lancaster, Wagoneer, and out in Licking County. I guess they all have Krogers or Dollar Generals in them now. :-( Food and Lodging Hospitality is another part of what makes this community so special. Reynoldsburg features an attractive selection of over 60 restaurants that make you feel right at home. Dining choices includes everything from fast food, national chains to scrumptious pasta and fresh-baked bread at Scali's Italian Restaurant to tender steaks and award winning ribs at the Hickory House. With so many choices everyone will enjoy their dining experience in Reynoldsburg. I'll take their word on it. I don't recall any restaurants, or diners, of note in Reynoldsburg, even including a RG Ritzy (which occupied the NE corner of Lancaster & Main during the late 80s)
December 29, 200618 yr BTW: This weeks edition of The Other Paper has two more letters to the editor that are not only critical of their coverage of the streetcar plan, but raise some very interesting points about the so-called "experts" the reporter interviewed for the story. Unfortunately, I can't find the letters on-line.
December 29, 200618 yr BTW: This weeks edition of The Other Paper has two more letters to the editor that are not only critical of their coverage of the streetcar plan, but raise some very interesting points about the so-called "experts" the reporter interviewed for the story. Unfortunately, I can't find the letters on-line. Power of the press, baby. And an important example for all of us here. If this forum isn't generating a Letter to The Editor a day, we're slacking.
January 9, 200718 yr Cities rediscover allure of streetcars Updated 1/8/2007 11:15 PM ET By Haya El Nasser, USA TODAY The streetcars that rumbled and clanged through many American cities from the late 1800s until World War II helped shape neighborhoods. More than a half-century later, streetcars are coming back and reviving the same neighborhoods they helped create. Several cities have resurrected the streetcar tradition and about three dozen others plan to — from Tucson, and Birmingham, Ala., to Miami and Trenton, N.J. This return to the past is less about satisfying a sense of nostalgia than about enticing developers and people to old industrial areas and faded neighborhoods. As cities experience a much-publicized urban renaissance, streetcars have become another draw for investment in housing, stores and restaurants. Cities hope that streetcars can do in this century what they did in the last: Connect neighborhoods and provide a relatively cheap alternative to walking and driving. Find this article at: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-08-streetcars_x.htm
January 17, 200718 yr Conservative/Libertarian take on streetcars from the OSU Sentinel. Columbus Public Transportation: A Quagmire of Regulation Giving us streetcars, but few cars on the streets Sandeep Rao Posted: 1/12/07 Columbus's transportation solutions for the 21st century involve a decided return to 19th century modes of movement. Failing to receive support for the Central Ohio Transit Authority (COTA) light rail proposal, Mayor Michael Coleman revisited the idea of streetcars or trolleys to revitalize Columbus in his State of the City presentation this past September. Streetcars, the mayor's office describes, are single car coaches that run on rails, maxing at speeds less than 40 mph. There is no word on whether the mayor's office also wishes to buttress Columbus' job economy with chimney sweeps and telegraph operators. continued http://www.osusentinel.com/media/storage/paper1151/news/2007/01/12/News/Columbus.Public.Transportation.A.Quagmire.Of.Regulation-2629873.shtml?sourcedomain=www.osusentinel.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
January 17, 200718 yr Another load of crap. Where is the research to back up this guy's assertions? Oh, and where would you buy an appliance downtown anyway?
January 17, 200718 yr ^ There's a comment feature on that website...let Sandeep know what a poorly reasearched load of crap he just laid.
January 17, 200718 yr And here lies a problem with so-called "Internet journalism": any twit with fingers and a keyboard can lay down layer upon layer of fertilizer without any basis in fact or even references to back up their opinion. To call this guy misinformed or misguided is being too kind. My high-school Sophmore daughter does a better job of research and fact-checking than this presumably college-level "reporter". He makes the most air-headed TV news reporter I've ever worked with seem like Edward R. Murrow. Yikes!
January 17, 200718 yr Tell his professor to flunk him. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 17, 200718 yr He is correct in his assertion that a streetcar line will not be profitable, and will be more unprofitable than running busses in the first 5-10 of the existence. However, people do not undertake an infastructure investment like this for only 5-10 years of benefits. It will take time to change the culture from an auto culture to a culture where people use public transprotation more. I am sure that year after year, ridership will increase and it will eventually become as economical or even more economical than busses. THe only problem is that these lines have not been around long enough to have that affect. One other question to ask, if these cars were so unprofitable, why not just keep them in their stations and run busses instead. I mean if they are not even recouping their fixed costs and see no other economic benefit, then it makes no sense to run them. I bet if you ask anyone on the street in cities that have these systems, they would not trade them in. These cities are likely realize some economic benefit from the streetcar lines. If not, they would be easy to scrap if it didnt. I dont think his article considers this.
January 17, 200718 yr You are absolutely correct Brutus_Buckeye. People in other cities are not about to give up their streetcars. They consider them a vital part of their communities and we will too, once we get past the naysayers.
January 17, 200718 yr EDIT: I think Sandeep has a long lost aunt in Reynoldsburg: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7751.msg149965#msg149965
January 17, 200718 yr And here lies a problem with so-called "Internet journalism": any twit with fingers and a keyboard can lay down layer upon layer of fertilizer without any basis in fact or even references to back up their opinion. To call this guy misinformed or misguided is being too kind. My high-school Sophmore daughter does a better job of research and fact-checking than this presumably college-level "reporter". He makes the most air-headed TV news reporter I've ever worked with seem like Edward R. Murrow. Yikes! Unfotunately, it is available in print and is the conservative/libertarian OSU paper.
January 17, 200718 yr I don't have a problem with alternative viewpoints. That's what makes us think and come up with better answers to important issues. It's good to create some dialogue by rowing againt the mainstream sometimes. What do have a quarrel with are those who espouse alternative viewpoints that have little or no basis in fact. People like this just like this are nothing more than mindless idealogues who couldn't come up with an original thought, much less the research and facts to support those thoughts, to save their lives if the hair was on fire and their butt was catching.
January 19, 200718 yr Note in this article that COTA has been asked to take a more active role in the next stage of development of the Downtown Columbus Streetcar plan. From what my sources tell me, COTA wants to make sure that the proposed streetcar system will be compatible with a possible future light rail system... if LRT is ever put back on the front burner. If this is true, it's a good sign. I think COTA is feeling a little more free to take an active role now that it succeeded in getting its levy passed. Downtown streetcar concept moving forward Thursday, January 18, 2007 By KEVIN PARKS ThisWeek Staff Writer Streetcars have not yet reached a stop in Columbus. Mayor Michael B. Coleman last week announced the formation of a Streetcar Steering Committee to further explore the financial feasibility of creating a modern version of the once seemingly outmoded mode of transportation. This new panel will build on the work done in 2006 by a Downtown Streetcar Working Group the mayor formed last March to explore the idea. In November, the working group's members voted unanimously that reintroducing streetcars is not only feasible but also desirable, more for economic development purposes than as a means of getting people from one place to another. The new committee is to determine if sufficient federal, state and local funding sources exist to pay for building and operating a streetcar line downtown, according to the announcement. Full story at http://www.thisweeknews.com/?story=sites/thisweeknews/011807/GermanVillage/News/011807-News-291363.html
January 19, 200718 yr Note in this article that COTA has been asked to take a more active role in the next stage of development of the Downtown Columbus Streetcar plan. From what my sources tell me, COTA wants to make sure that the proposed streetcar system will be compatible with a possible future light rail system... if LRT is ever put back on the front burner. If this is true, it's a good sign. I think COTA is feeling a little more free to take an active role now that it succeeded in getting its levy passed. I've heard similar things. I've also heard that if the streetcars become reality, they would likely be run by COTA. Two years ago, I would've been downright depressed by this, but now I feel like they may be turning the corner as an organization. The levy passing was a good thing, and it seems like Lhota has gotten the messy labor issues out of the way. It could also give them some experience with rail transportation that could help if light rail ever happens.
January 19, 200718 yr More anti-streetcar drivel from OSU.... there is also a link to respond with a letter to the editor: http://www.thelantern.com/home/lettertotheeditor/ :wtf: Derail trolley plan Project too costly, ineffective OSU Lantern Editorial Posted: 1/19/07 Traffic in Columbus is a mess, and the police don't play around. Meter maids can be seen lurking behind cars that have parking meters near expiration and campus police practically have towing companies' phone numbers on their speed dial. The city has left commuters with two alternatives to driving their own cars: cabs and COTA, both slow and potentially expensive. The city recently pitched a misguided alternative - streetcars. The Lantern strongly opposes clogging the downtown area with these large, noisy vehicles... ... Since 2000, downtown Columbus has grown rapidly. After a $2 billion renovation, the city has attracted more than 100,000 workers, residents, students and visitors. The Lantern believes, however, that not only alternative transportation methods, such as buses, bikes and cabs, can more effectively accommodate travelers, but the funds generated for the study can be spent more wisely and help its people first. Full editorial at http://www.thelantern.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticlePrinterFriendly&uStory_id=d769248c-9e9b-4106-8c51-0bc2ba076e6d
January 19, 200718 yr don't you just love articles like that one? my take at summarizing our osu lantern friends: traffic in columbus is a mess.....so do nothing.
January 20, 200718 yr Sandeep and Claudia rub their hands together in delight! Is the Lantern REALLY the student voice of OSU? If so, I'd start checking the dorms and classrooms for lead-based paint.
January 20, 200718 yr Is the Lantern REALLY the student voice of OSU? Hell no. I'd venture to say half of OSU's students don't even know the name of their "student newspaper" let alone read it. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 20, 200718 yr Might be the worst article I've ever read anywhere. 1) Streetcars aren't noisy. They run on electric motors. In fact, one could argue that the lack of noise contributes to accidents. If an idiot pedestrian doesn't look before he/she crosses the street, they might never hear one coming. 2) Streetcars don't operate on tracks that are "about one foot about ground level" (that's not a typo by me...they just didn't proofread it). I'll take it to mean one foot above ground level. That could almost be considered an elevated train! That's higher than the sidewalks. 3) This sentance makes NO sense at all..."The Lantern does not agree the streetcars will reduce traffic flow or pace." It is then immediately followed up by a paragraph stating that streetcars WILL reduce traffic flow and pace. 4) How does a MAJOR derailment happen with a single car train? I think that's a bit extreme. Is this really that big of a problem to mention? How many accidents do busses and cars get into each year? I just heard about another COTA bus crash this past week to go with the pedestrian killed a few weeks ago. This might be the only thing I agree with in the article... Streetcars, also called trolleys or trams, are single-car transit vehicles running on rails mixed in with the normal traffic flow. These vehicles are native to large cities with routes only a few miles long and speeds less than 40 mph.
January 20, 200718 yr I think a summer intern at the Buckeye institute must have joined the editorial board of The Lantern. This is pretty typical stuff -- written up and sent around the country by libertarian "think tanks" -- where not a lot of thinking takes place these days -- and printed uncritically by small papers that don't have the bench depth to understand what they're being fed. It happens everywhere -- for a while anyway, until people catch on.
January 20, 200718 yr Hey Atlas! You think you could get Malicki or O'Kelly's ear and get either one of them to write a rebuttal to that editorial?
January 21, 200718 yr STREETCARS IN MIX, TOO Support for caps over I-70/71 puts stress on planners Saturday, January 20, 2007 Tim Doulin THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Regional planners might change their minds and recommend money to build caps over the I-70/71 freeway Downtown, following public comments that supported the project. It’s doubtful that would affect a committee’s recommendation in November that the planners provide $20 million over 10 years for a Downtown streetcar line. The same committee of the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission, which has a limited amount of money to give, refused a request from the city for $25 million for the caps, which would connect Downtown with nearby neighborhoods. In the weeks since, however, MORPC received letters and e-mails from groups and individuals who support building the caps. Of the 82 comments, 58 favored spending the federal money on the caps while four opposed it. For streetcars, 18 said they supported giving dollars for trolleys while 17 opposed. "We are seriously considering whether there is a way to tweak our program and see if there is a way to give some money to the caps," said Bob Lawler, MORPC transportation director. Full story at http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2007/01/20/20070120-C3-01.html
January 22, 200718 yr A bit dated, but a good counterpoint to the dreck from OSU.... COMMENTARY Let’s hop on streetcars proposal Wednesday, November 15, 2006 ANN FISHER Columbus Dispatch Columnist If the thought of streetcars evokes touristy postcard images of jolly red trolleys and clanging bells, think again. The Euro-sleek version that was recommended this week for Columbus is none of that. So get over it. Streetcars are about looking forward, anticipating the boon to businesses and connecting people with their town. Visitors to Columbus would find such a system easier to use than buses, and about a million conventioneers visit Downtown annually. Most passengers, however, would be local people, including the roughly 100,000 folks who work Downtown, the 33,000 students who attend classes there and the 4,500 (and counting) who live there. You could leave your car parked in a Downtown lot in the morning and visit the Brewery District, North Market or Short North for lunch. A hockey game in Nationwide Arena in January or a Clippers game at the future ballpark in July would be a streetcar ride from dinner at a restaurant. Full story at http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/11/15/20061115-C1-00.html
January 22, 200718 yr Hey Atlas! You think you could get Malicki or O'Kelly's ear and get either one of them to write a rebuttal to that editorial? ha! just saw this. ill shoot malicki (sp) an email, try to see what he thinks. i agree, that article was pathetic and made me feel embarassed.
January 22, 200718 yr What Columbus needs most is streetcars on High St., a subway beneath, and a monorail above.
January 22, 200718 yr What Columbus needs most is streetcars on High St., a subway beneath, and a monorail above. I've wondered why no one is looking into a subway system. I'm guessing that we're way too stingy of a city to even consider it, no matter the possible enefits.
January 23, 200718 yr ^Subways are ten times the cost of streetcars. Streetcars are 20 million per mile, subways are around 200 million per mile (underground stations are very expensive). Columbus is the 15th largest city in the nation, but at a density of 1,306 km^2 subways don't work unless you have an amazingly dense city with an expansive hinterland of low density suburbs. [DC is 3400 km2, NYC is 10,000 km2, SanFran 6,100 km2]
January 23, 200718 yr ^I don't know Columbus well enough to say this for sure but I'd bet that a light rail subway under High St. from just north of I-670 to OSU would definitely pay off -- remember lowly Buffalo has about 5 miles of its light rail line running under a street less dense than High St. The Google Earth measure tool reads 2.5 miles between the convention center and Lane Ave., aside from dipping under 670 this would be straightforward cut-and-cover construction with shallow stations (no mezzanines), and in the case of light rail, the stations can be much shorter to reflect the shorter train lengths and in the case of High St. the platform lengths could be easily extended in the future. Stations at Buttles, 1st, 5th, 9th, 16th, and Lane would average around 1,600ft. from one another, what is typical in New York. OSU is roughly the same distance from downtown Columbus as Harvard is from downtown Boston, OSU is 3 times as big as Harvard, and Harvard was the terminus of the red line subway for 70 years until the Alewife extension opened around 1985. Obviously downtown Boston is a much larger destination than downtown Columbus, but OSU is more or less the biggest single destination and originator of vehicle trips in the country outside of downtown business districts. Obviously any light rail lines from the north would benefit by running to OSU instead of straight downtown along a rail corridor, it's a similar situation to what's needed in Cincinnati from the UC area to downtown Cincinnait.
January 23, 200718 yr ^why wouldn't a raised deticated right of way be more cost effective? Would it not allow trains to move exactly the same speed but without the added cost? I've run the columubs marathon twice now and there is no grading issue in columbus like there is in cincinnati. And while I'm all for transit solutions, I'd rather spend precious resources on systems that would allow greater reach.
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