February 21, 200718 yr "There are relatively strong associations between built environment and BMI, even in population-dense New York City," said the study's lead author Andrew Rundle of the Mailman School of Public Health. Mailman School of Public Health? What's their slogan -- "neither rain, sleet nor dark of night will keep us from delivering a healthy education?" Otherwise, good article! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 22, 200718 yr >A large percentage of the housing in NYC's "densest pedestrian-friendly parts" is comprised of 4-6 story pre-war walkups. For those who live in these buildings, that's a little bonus unavoidable daily workout. No kidding, and many of those buildings aren't air conditioned so in the summer you sweat instantly which is no fun. Also people in New York tend to walk faster and climb even more steps on the subway. It used to be the case that the rural population was much healthier and stronger due to endless farm labor and the long distances into town and around farms, however with cars and mechanization the typical farmer is only burning half the calories they once did. My grandmother's uncle used to wake up at midnight once a week and drive a team of mules with a cart of produce and flowers (they had a greenhouse) 8 miles down to Cincinnati's 6th St. market. They got there around 4, set up, sell out by about 7am and arrive back home around noon. Sometimes they'd have to spend time crushing rocks at the tollgates, the old turnpikes often required rock crushing as a toll. This tale is chronicled in detail in the History of Colerain Township book published in 1976 and there's no reason to suspect that it was unusual for the time.
February 22, 200718 yr ^you got me laughing there. There's a big problem with people not grasping in the least how rough life was 100 years ago and what ordinary people are capable of physically. Look at kids whining about their sore feat after 2 hours at the zoo or an amusement park...in the past the average kid walked at least 5 miles a day and any kid raised on a farm worked 50+ hours a week, all on their feet.
February 22, 200718 yr Those folding shopping carts are still seen on buses in Cincinnati, especially during mid-day. I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but it's the only place I've ever seen them. I missed this thread, so I am posting a bit late, but my wife has one of those wire carts, and she is no old lady. They sell them at our local hardware store (Rohs, 1417 Vine, Cincinnati). One reason I was loving the modern streetcars is the ease with which you could roll one of these on. Pulling them up the steps of a bus is a pain, expecially for us older folks ;)
February 23, 200718 yr With positive effects on public health, safety, and environmental quality -- walkability has become the new buzz word in planning. http://www.planetizen.com/node/22955 "One of the keys to regional and local prosperity is the ability to attract and retain high-skilled people. ... Many people can, and do, choose where they want to live based on factors beyond their ability to make a living. "Quality of life" has become the coin of the realm. The economic value of a community's attractiveness as a place to live, work, and play is becoming widely recognized by business leaders, local officials, and planners. This has led many cities to focus on ... a built environment that encourages a vibrant street life -- elements that require a welcoming, walkable environment for people of all ages."
February 23, 200718 yr With positive effects on public health, safety, and environmental quality -- walkability has become the new buzz word in planning. more at 11...
April 4, 200718 yr COMMENTARY: Ten Things Wrong With Sprawl By James M. McElfish, Jr. In just the next 34 years, the Census Bureau tells us, we 300 million Americans will be joined by another 92 million.(1) Where will all these people—mostly us and our direct descendants—live, work, play, worship, buy, sell, and serve? Where will 40 million additional households be located? What sort of built environment will we produce, and what will be the results for the nation’s and the environment’s well-being? The prevailing form of land development is popularly known as sprawl or exurban sprawl.(2) Sprawl is characterized by low-density development that rigorously separates residential uses from other land uses, and that relies entirely or almost entirely on automobile transportation to connect the separate uses. There are strong reasons to prefer that the nation’s future development does not reproduce this pattern—reasons that have nothing to do with the price or availability of gasoline... http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3641
July 20, 200717 yr http://www.walkscore.com/index.shtml this is extremely depressing......i only got 56/100. i think it goes to show you ohio is too car dependent. # # 50 - 70 = Some Walkable Locations: Some stores and amenities are within walking distance, but many everyday trips still require a car. i dont own a car either
July 20, 200717 yr Interesting, I've improved my walkability with each of my last three moves: Nashville, TN 21 points (I lived in the most walkable area of Nashville) Memphis, TN 25 points (I lived in the most walkable area of Memphis) Ohio City 60 points
July 20, 200717 yr it didn't work for me. I got a dialogue box stating it was over it "goggle limit" and to "try in an hour" WTF?
July 20, 200717 yr I definitely call shinannigans on this; apparently the closest coffee shop to University Heights in Cincinnati is Awakenings in Hyde Park...
July 20, 200717 yr Uh, OK. I got a 47 and live just off the Gold Coast in Lakewood, just three blocks from the West 117th commercial district. Where's the listing for banks? Laundromats? Video stores? Barbershops/beauty parlors? Churches? I've got all those things (some in multiples) within a five-minute walk. Don't those count? Screw 'em! Grocery & Convenience Sapell's Bi-Rite - 0.28 Mi Giant Eagle - 0.29 Mi Convenient Food Mart - 0.62 Mi Madison Bi-Rite - 0.82 Mi Swami Corp - 0.82 Mi 7-Eleven Food Store - 0.89 Mi Giant Eagle: Lakewo - 0.9 Mi Tops Friendly Marke - 0.94 Mi Restaurants THIS LIST DOESN'T BEGIN TO COVER IT!! City Place Restaura - 0.27 Mi Diner On Clifton - 0.27 Mi Twist - 0.27 Mi Pappas Restaurant - 0.28 Mi Wendy's - 0.3 Mi Dianna's Deli & Res - 0.3 Mi Shore Restaurant - 0.31 Mi Pier W - 0.31 Mi Coffee Shops Starbucks Coffee Co - 0.36 Mi Arabica: Coffee Sho - 0.45 Mi Phoenix Coffee Co - 1.53 Mi Al Ahram Coffee Hou - 2.01 Mi Caffe Roma - 2.1 Mi Cafe Neo - 2.41 Mi Starbucks Coffee Co - 3.48 Mi Near West Coffee & - 3.51 Mi Bars ALSO A VERY PARTIAL LIST! Five O'Clock Bar - 0.32 Mi Tick Tock Tavern - 0.34 Mi Hi Club - 0.38 Mi Corky's Place - 0.53 Mi Tomahawk Cafe - 0.56 Mi Spitfire Saloon - 0.65 Mi Casey's - 0.75 Mi Winchester - 0.8 Mi Movie Theaters GOT HURT HERE - BUT THEY INCLUDE HUNTINGTON BUT NOT THE PHANTASY THEATER??? Detroit Theatre - 2.04 Mi Ridge Park Square C - 4.73 Mi General Cinema Thea - 4.91 Mi Parma Theatre - 6.15 Mi Huntington Playhous - 8.53 Mi Cleveland Cinemathe - 8.59 Mi Regal Cinema: Middl - 8.6 Mi Regal Cinema: Westl - 9.57 Mi Schools Emerson Middle Scho - 0.63 Mi Taft Elementary Sch - 0.82 Mi Franklin Elementary - 0.83 Mi Harrison Elementary - 0.84 Mi Louisa May Alcott E - 0.95 Mi Lakewood High Schoo - 1 Mi Marion C Seltzer El - 1.36 Mi Roosevelt Elementar -1.46 Mi Libraries Lakewood Public Lib - 0.91 Mi Lakewood Public Lib - 1.63 Mi Cleveland Public Li - 1.8 Mi Cleveland Public Li2.03 Mi Cleveland Public Li3.14 Mi Cleveland Public Li3.25 Mi Cleveland Public Li3.62 Mi Rocky River Public Parks Merl Blunts Park - 0.82 Mi Lakewood City Madis - 0.87 Mi Madison Park - 0.89 Mi HELLO-WHERE'S EDGEWATER PARK?!?!? Cudell Commons Park - 1.22 Mi Lakewood Park - 1.27 Mi1.27 Mi Lakewood Park Guard1.46 Mi Belmont Park1.55 Mi Kauffman Park Bookstores OK, I GOT HURT HERE! Collectors Warehous - 0.99 Mi 2.21 Mi O'Malley's Comic Co3.42 Mi Warwick Products3.55 Mi Carol & John's Comi4.73 Mi Cleveland Trunk Co4.73 Mi Traveler's Shoppes 4.89 Mi Travelers Custom Ca5.82 Mi B & L Comics Cards Drug Stores CVS Pharmacy - 0.22 Mi Discount Drug Mart - 0.32 Mi Walgreen Drug Store - 0.4 Mi Tops Friendly Marke - 0.94 Mi CVS Pharmacy - 1.29 Mi Hardware Stores GOT HURT HERE SINCE HOME DEPOT KILLED BOBSON'S Home Depot - 1.08 Mi Lakefront Hardware - 1.95 Mi West End Lumber Co2.29 Mi Torch True Value Ha3.04 Mi True Value Co3.24 Mi Castro & Sons Hardw3.33 Mi Ingersoll Hardware3.95 Mi Puritas Hardware "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 20, 200717 yr I got a 69/100. I live in the University District in C-Bus. And oddly enough, around where I am moving to Cincy on Ludlow, I scored a 69 as well.
July 20, 200717 yr I put in various places I've lived which ranged from... My parents house in suburban Nashville got a 4. Why it even got a 4 I don't know, the program malfunctioned and misidentified some house as a cafe so it should really be a 0. There's literally not a single business of any kind on the map around their house. I've actually seen a coyote run across the road right by the subdivision and wild turkeys come through all the time so it's pretty rural. My high score amongst places I've lived was a 91 for Cambridge, MA, where I lived for one year and a 65 for my current place. I'll throw out a loose observation that a score of over 60 means living with no car is doable but over 80 means a car is actually a hassle.
July 20, 200717 yr ^ i'd agree with that take. i'd also guess the site is prob more enlightening for people moving away from the heavily populated parts of eastcoast to the midlands or elsewhere than the other way around. given the cambridge score, i am insulted that living in the west village in manhattan i only got a 93 out of 100. you gotta be kidding me -- what the heck does it take to get 100/100? i see their example is of the village too, so maybe the site developers are ny'ers and just being nitpicky.
July 20, 200717 yr I'll throw out a loose observation that a score of over 60 means living with no car is doable but over 80 means a car is actually a hassle. I've thrived without a car in my neighborhood (with just a 47 rating) and so have two roommates of mine. But since the walkscore site doesn't include transit, it cannot reflect the ability live in a certain neighborhood without a car. Get a site that mixes the pedestrian, transit and biking friendliness of a neighborhood and that will give a better indication of one's ability to go without a car at a certain location. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 20, 200717 yr Columbus, Italian Village: 80! Detroit, Hamtramck: 64. I sense the Hamtramck score is strongly skewed downward by the distance to a 1) movie screen and 2) bookstore, two of the biggest sprawl casualty categories overall. Even there, walkscore apparently ignores non english-language bookstores–it completely ignored Ksiegarnia Eden, a Polish bookstore .8 miles from my old house. That said, great little site. I loves me the internets!
July 20, 200717 yr ...But since the walkscore site doesn't include transit, it cannot reflect the ability live in a certain neighborhood without a car. MAJOR oversight. Most other walkability standards I've seen add a lot of weight to access to transit. Guess we'll have to wait for Walkscore v2.0.
July 20, 200717 yr Columbus, Italian Village: 80! Detroit, Hamtramck: 64. I sense the Hamtramck score is strongly skewed downward by the distance to a 1) movie screen and 2) bookstore, two of the biggest sprawl casualty categories overall. Even there, walkscore apparently ignores non english-language bookstoresit completely ignored Ksiegarnia Eden, a Polish bookstore .8 miles from my old house. That said, great little site. I loves me the internets! Ok, so living near a movie theater is much more important than living near good transit?!?!? Of course, everyone walks to the movies each day and no one needs to go to and from work everyday. That makes absolutely no sense.
July 20, 200717 yr ^ I think the walkscore number is linked moreso to "lifestyle" than actual "life."
July 20, 200717 yr Yea i was wondering about transit since I could walk to two train stations and a circulator stop is right outside my house. also Marc's isnt listed on there as either grocery or convenience for some reason... even though its closer than the "Giant Eagle" at Cedar Fairmount.... heh
July 20, 200717 yr This was fun once it worked, I got 84 out of 100, for my neighborhood in lakewood. Funny thing is that it missed a ton of bars and restaurants right by me. Although counting the comic book store as a "bookstore" is a bit sketchy.... Even better was that I beat out my friend who lives in an uber-urban neighborhood north of Fells Point in Baltimore....
July 20, 200717 yr I got a 69/100. I live in the University District in C-Bus. And oddly enough, around where I am moving to Cincy on Ludlow, I scored a 69 as well. yeah, but we got robbed in terms of coffee shops, it says the closest is a starbucks 4 mi away, but ignores clifton and brewtopia.
July 20, 200717 yr I give credit to walkscore for admitting its shortcomings. From the site: How It Doesn't Work: Known Issues with Walk Score We'll be the first to admit that Walk Score is just an approximation of walkability. There are a number of factors that contribute to walkability that are not part of our algorithm: * Street width: Narrow streets are better for walking because they slow traffic. * Block length: Short blocks make it easier to navigate the grid. * Freeways: Freeways can divide neighborhoods and hurt walkability. * Public transit: Good public transit is important for walkable neighborhoods. * Safety: How much crime is in the neighborhood? How many traffic accidents are there? Are crosswalks well marked and streets well lit? * Aesthetics: Are the sidewalks shaded by trees? Are there appealing parks and public spaces? * Pedestrian-friendly design: Are buildings close to the sidewalk with parking in back? If buildings have large parking lots in front, they are less inviting to pedestrians. As MarlonBain said, "You should use the Web 3.0 app called going outside and investigating the world for yourself" before deciding whether a neighborhood is walkable! Incorrect Google Map Results All of the locations shown on Walk Score come from the Google Maps API. You may notice that some of these results are not accurate. E.G. something shows up in the parks category that is not really a park, or a restaurant shows up that has gone out of business. We're using the most accurate data available to us and are working with Google to improve the accuracy of results. If you see an incorrect result, please let us know so we can investigate. http://www.walkscore.com/how-it-doesnt-work.shtml
July 20, 200717 yr Damnit. I was only able to search one address! New York [Harlem (Marcus Garvey Park)] - 91 Cleveland [shaker Square] - 56 Los Angeles [West LA/Century City] - 80 91? In Harlem, that makes no damn sense. This thing is rigged! 56? Parma has a higher schore than Shaker Square. Funny, since shaker square is the densest neighborhood in Cleveland. 80? In West LA, I guest they count Westwood & Century City malls as walkable! BAH!
July 20, 200717 yr ugh Finally got in. Central Northside (Cincinnati) gets a 78 with 1 restaurant in walking distance (you need to pass a restaurant to get to it) & the nearest coffee shop being a Starbucks 5 miles away (never mind that there is one right around the corner). yeah, this thing is messed up. But lemme say, if you have a comic book store, a bar and someplace selling burritos in walking distance, you oughtta get a 200 in my book.
July 20, 200717 yr I got an 80 downtown Cincy. Strange when the nearest coffee shop shown was 4+ miles away and there is one on the first floor of my building . . . plus one a block away, one two blocks away and one like three blocks away.
July 20, 200717 yr LOL...looking back at my list of walkable amenities, it appears to assume that I'm Christ Almighty and can walk on water...Walnut Hills is definitely a bit under one mile from Dayton, KY - but if you want to keep your feet dry, it's more than three miles... But that's kind of a unique situation...a more serious shortcoming - or maybe a more commonly experienced shortcoming, is that topography isn't accounted for. Someone living on Lafayette in Clifton may only be a half mile from the Kroger's on Kenard, but ain't nobody gonna heft his groceries up that hill!
July 20, 200717 yr what the heck does it take to get 100/100? Apparently it takes active hookers (remind me to post photos), homeless dudes who like to strip on the sidewalk and then yell at you for walking by, and extra high piles of fetid garbage (can't emphasize fetid enough this time of year)............because I got a 100!
July 20, 200717 yr Shaker Square got a 56! Of all the Cleveland neighborhoods, it should have rated higher! Grocery Stores0.07 Mi Van Aken Market 0.12 Mi Dave's Supermarket0.77 Mi Food Town0.82 Mi Tops Friendly Marke0.88 Mi Eastside Grocery0.89 Mi Dailey's West India0.93 Mi Kaiser Food Market0.93 Mi King's Market Restaurants0.06 Mi Sergio's Sarava 0.06 Mi Bronte Bistro0.08 Mi Captain Tony's Pizz0.08 Mi Yours Truly Restaur0.08 Mi Jackie Chen Wok0.08 Mi Fire Food & Drink0.09 Mi Captain Tony's Pizz0.11 Mi Balaton Restaurant Coffee Shops0.06 Mi Dewey's Coffee Hous 1.21 Mi Starbucks Coffee1.54 Mi Phoenix Coffee Co: 1.9 Mi Starbucks Coffee2.15 Mi Arabica at Universi2.4 Mi Java Jive2.44 Mi Starbucks Coffee2.77 Mi Arabica: Coffee Sho Bars0.27 Mi Larchmere Tavern 0.31 Mi East Boulevard Athl0.32 Mi Academy Tavern1.09 Mi Gold Spot Lounge1.14 Mi Fairmount Martini &1.28 Mi Spot II1.52 Mi Brennan's Colony1.56 Mi Tavern Co Movie Theaters1.69 Mi Cedar Lee 1.71 Mi Ground Floor Theate2.11 Mi Cleveland Cinemathe4.87 Mi Magic Johnson Theat6.18 Mi Cinemark USA7.69 Mi Cooperative Theatre8.25 Mi Regal Cinema: Mayfi8.53 Mi Ridge Park Square C Schools0.59 Mi Boulevard Elementar 0.69 Mi Alexander Graham Be0.73 Mi Roxboro Elementary 0.73 Mi Roxboro Middle Scho0.75 Mi Harvey Rice Element0.75 Mi Sunbeam Elementary 0.82 Mi Woodbury Elementary0.95 Mi Onaway Elementary S Libraries0.73 Mi Cleveland Public Li 1.37 Mi Cleveland Public Li1.48 Mi Cleveland Heights-U1.48 Mi Cleveland Heights P1.66 Mi Cleveland Health Sc1.68 Mi Coventry Village Li1.68 Mi Shaker Heights Publ1.85 Mi Cleveland Medical L Parks0.74 Mi Shaker Lakes Park 0.79 Mi Nature Center At Sh0.82 Mi Southerly Park1.14 Mi Woodland Hills Park1.26 Mi Luke Easter Park1.53 Mi Kingsbury Run Park1.73 Mi Horseshoe Lake Park1.8 Mi Tony Brush Park Bookstores2.24 Mi PC Marks Publicatio 4.28 Mi A & A Comics Inc4.78 Mi Travelers Custom Ca4.87 Mi Traveler's Shoppes 4.93 Mi Cleveland Trunk Co:5.01 Mi Cleveland Trunk Co5.01 Mi Traveler's Shoppes 6.08 Mi Magic Memories Drug Stores0.1 Mi CVS Pharmacy: Store 0.1 Mi CVS Pharmacy: Pharm0.82 Mi Tops Markets0.94 Mi Cleveland Apothe Ca1.13 Mi Roth Pharmacy Group1.33 Mi Rite Aid Pharmacies1.57 Mi Lee-Silsby Compound1.69 Mi CVS Pharmacy: Pharm Hardware Stores0.77 Mi Bloom Brothers Supp 1.55 Mi Seitz-Agin Hardware1.78 Mi Olchovy Hardware1.92 Mi Ace Hardware2.02 Mi Shaker Heights Hard2.43 Mi Odziemski Hardware2.52 Mi Davis & Son Landsca2.88 Mi Van Aken Hardware many obvious ommissions! I'm with KJP, something is not right! F'em! :x
July 20, 200717 yr yea i completely agree that this site is flawed. i was wonderin why things like barber shops, laundromats, transit wasnt included. i dont really think living near a movie theatre or book store has more to do with how walkable a neighborhood is than those things. they didnt include a lot of things for me. how is the closest movie theatre to shaker square cedar lee when theres a theatre right on the square?!?!?! wonder what the score would be with that included and if joseph beth booksellers hadnt closed shop. i was doin random locations in cleveland and a lot of them rated lower than my score. downtown cleveland got a 76 and lakewood near the w. 117th rapid station got a 75. you know somethin is flawed when parma gets a higher score than shaker square.
July 21, 200717 yr It's definitely a good concept - I love the idea of measuring odd qualities, and making them comparable across different situations - but it does seem like the flaws are too great to allow one to do that at this point...
July 21, 200717 yr Yea i was wondering about transit since I could walk to two train stations and a circulator stop is right outside my house. also Marc's isnt listed on there as either grocery or convenience for some reason... even though its closer than the "Giant Eagle" at Cedar Fairmount.... heh i'm curious how old and what is feeding their list of businesses. A few of the addresses I entered returned businesses that haven't been there for at least three years....
July 21, 200717 yr I emailed them, thanked them for the project, and gave them the suggestion of incorporating topography...they mentioned Google was going to be creating walking directions soon, and I said that would be great for me, because of the river between me and half the places they mention...it will be interesting to see if Google takes topography into account in its walking directions version...
July 21, 200717 yr They say on their known issues page that they're aware of the body-of-water issue, and that the solution may be Google's forthcoming walking directions thing... Cincinnati actually has four walkable bridges, I believe - Clay Wade Baily, Roebling Suspension, Taylor-Southgate and the L&N - but yeah, once you get outside of downtown, your next walking option downriver is probably Anderson Ferry, and upriver it's probably the ferry around Augusta...or else I guess it's Maysville, and the next bridge...
July 21, 200717 yr Interestingly, it says the closest movie theater to me is the Motor Vue Drive-in theater! I think I'll walk there!
Create an account or sign in to comment