June 9, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, Enginerd said: Is it too much to hope that George will lose money on this a$$hole move? I think it's highly likely that George will not make money on this. If he had bought a property on stable ground that's not at risk of slope failure, then it would have been a shrewd move. But since time is not on his side, the city could just wait this out until his building collapses and the land becomes worthless. And if there is a time urgency on the city's side, such as preventing a slope collapse into the river, then the city can use that as grounds to take his property by eminent domain, citing an imminent danger to the public and to interstate commerce. George bought a property that nature could take from him in a decade or less. His building already has visible cracks running through the bricks. BTW, I updated the article. It seems that George does have a realistic business case for the site. I updated the article with a new paragraph about it..... https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/06/george-files-development-plan-for.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 9, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: I think it's highly likely that George will not make money on this. If he had bought a property on stable ground that's not at risk of slope failure, then it would have been a shrewd move. But since time is not on his side, the city could just wait this out until his building collapses and the land becomes worthless. And if there is a time urgency on the city's side, such as preventing a slope collapse into the river, then the city can use that as grounds to take his property by eminent domain, citing an imminent danger to the public and to interstate commerce. George bought a property that nature could take from him in a decade or less. His building already has visible cracks running through the bricks. BTW, I updated the article. It seems that George does have a realistic business case for the site. I updated the article with a new paragraph about it..... https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/06/george-files-development-plan-for.html Since the $9 million federal grant is going to have an expiration date, and any stabilization work is going to require demolishing the building first, I'd assume some urgency on the city's side - this will come to a head in the next few years.
June 9, 20214 yr I think the city should call George's bluff. Tell him, great, and then present George a proposed high tax assessment. I've also been of the opinion that a strip of low-rise commercial properties could be dotted along the east side of W25th, with generous breaks to ensure visual and pedestrian park access. Steve Litt told me that the property is "unstable and undevelopable"; I'm thinking hogwash, there have been buildings there for most of 200 years. I also hate taking high value land off the tax rolls when a *slightly* smaller parcel for the park would do just as well. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 9, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Dougal said: I think the city should call George's bluff. Tell him, great, and then present George a proposed high tax assessment. I've also been of the opinion that a strip of low-rise commercial properties could be dotted along the east side of W25th, with generous breaks to ensure visual and pedestrian park access. Steve Litt told me that the property is "unstable and undevelopable"; I'm thinking hogwash, there have been buildings there for most of 200 years. I also hate taking high value land off the tax rolls when a *slightly* smaller parcel for the park would do just as well. That's what the west side of the street should be for. And there is a lot still worth developing there -- namely the huge parking lot for Lutheran Hospital. And many of those buildings that dotted Irishtown Bend for 200+ years were demolished or fell down because of the slope instability. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 9, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, Dougal said: I think the city should call George's bluff. Tell him, great, and then present George a proposed high tax assessment. I've also been of the opinion that a strip of low-rise commercial properties could be dotted along the east side of W25th, with generous breaks to ensure visual and pedestrian park access. Steve Litt told me that the property is "unstable and undevelopable"; I'm thinking hogwash, there have been buildings there for most of 200 years. I also hate taking high value land off the tax rolls when a *slightly* smaller parcel for the park would do just as well. There's plenty of parking lots on the west side of W25th, having a park across the street should drive up demand for those lots. Building on any of the East side of W25th would effectively divide the park into several smaller parks as most of the land is too steep to easily walk on. Edit: KJP beat me to it. Edited June 9, 20214 yr by Ethan Slow fingers
June 9, 20214 yr 28 minutes ago, Dougal said: I think the city should call George's bluff. Tell him, great, and then present George a proposed high tax assessment. I've also been of the opinion that a strip of low-rise commercial properties could be dotted along the east side of W25th, with generous breaks to ensure visual and pedestrian park access. Steve Litt told me that the property is "unstable and undevelopable"; I'm thinking hogwash, there have been buildings there for most of 200 years. I also hate taking high value land off the tax rolls when a *slightly* smaller parcel for the park would do just as well. Couldn't agree more. A shallow commercial strip 2-3 stories tall would be a great on the east side of W.25th. In particular something at Detroit to complete the corner, and at the re-aligned Franklin Ave further South.
June 9, 20214 yr I don't think you'll find much disagreement with the concept, but, the hillside is truly very unstable. There is a sewer line running through there that is showing new signs of cracks and twists every year, so much so that the sewer district itself is ponying up $7 million to the stabilization effort. The stabilization designs are not being made to accommodate buildings up on W. 25th. I'm not sure if it's technically possible to do it that way, but even if it is, it's probably a safe bet that it would carry a higher price tag and higher risk of future problems, which is what everyone's trying to avoid. It's possible that man-made interference caused the current instability of the hillside in the first place, when the river was widened to accommodate shipping several times in the mid 20th century. Then again, sometimes hillsides are naturally unstable. But the design is going to be completed with the goal of having as little man-made structures as possible on that hillside, on the top, middle, or bottom. Edited June 9, 20214 yr by mu2010
June 10, 20214 yr 'We just don't want to lose our right to develop it,' Tony George says of Irishtown Bend site Michelle Jarboe - Crain's Cleveland Business - June 9, 2021 "'We're in negotiations with the city,' Tony George said during a phone interview. 'I'm negotiating in good faith. I think they're negotiating in good faith. But there are people who are not privy to the negotiations who are throwing darts at the George family.' Tony George said that he and Ed Rybka, the city's chief of regional development, have talked about swapping not only land but also billboard sites. ... They wouldn't say which land parcels or billboard locations the city has offered up. 'All the properties that they've shown us so far are not acceptable,' said Tony George, adding that the Georges' counterproposals haven't been palatable to the city, either. ... 'I hope they don't go down that track, because we're going to fight,' Tony George said of eminent domain. 'I'll take it all the way to the Supreme Court.'"
June 10, 20214 yr The Georges are clowns. This is all a ploy to get more money out of the city. This should only help the city's case that the fact that this proposal was only submitted after a zoning change and this so call plan is from years ago. Everyone can see what they are trying to pull here.
June 10, 20214 yr West 47th Townhomes has been unanimously approved by Landmarks! Excited for this infill and love the changes. https://res.cloudinary.com/courbanize-production/image/upload/v1/information_plans/pdjfzawiozjkdy8fm70n
June 10, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, downtownjoe said: West 47th Townhomes has been unanimously approved by Landmarks! Excited for this infill and love the changes. https://res.cloudinary.com/courbanize-production/image/upload/v1/information_plans/pdjfzawiozjkdy8fm70n These boxes are so uninspired at this point. I always tell friends that we're like 5-10 years behind Pittsburgh with things. They've graduated from these boxes onto greater things. I've seen glimmers of that with some new projects (and to be frank, these are better than most), but 30 years from now these are going to be as ugly/uncool as we consider 60's stuff today. Edit: Leaving the comment, but I kind of addressed things in my next comment Edited June 10, 20214 yr by GISguy
June 10, 20214 yr I agree theyre nothing special but in my opinion i think thats why i like them. They fit, theyre unassuming and they have a bit of charm without trying to look like theyre more than they are which results would end up with a cheap look. I wish we had some more interesting facade designs being presented across the city but overall I'm happy with these infill.
June 10, 20214 yr I like those townhouses. I think it's silly that we are expecting residential units to be some sort of mind blowing cutting edge architectural statement- that's what usually ages poorly.
June 10, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, X said: I like those townhouses. I think it's silly that we are expecting residential units to be some sort of mind blowing cutting edge architectural statement- that's what usually ages poorly. I like em too and expect these to still look good/fit in 100yrs from today.
June 10, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, X said: I like those townhouses. I think it's silly that we are expecting residential units to be some sort of mind blowing cutting edge architectural statement- that's what usually ages poorly. All the wonderful brick apartment buildings across the city and inner suburbs, and all the Cleveland doubles we revere, were the 'uninspired' cookie cutter developments of their day.
June 10, 20214 yr Buildings like these aren't impressive for how they look on their own, but they are nice pieces to an urban whole- the 2nd and 3rd violins of the urban streetscape.
June 10, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, X said: I like those townhouses. I think it's silly that we are expecting residential units to be some sort of mind blowing cutting edge architectural statement- that's what usually ages poorly. I didn't say anything about making these crazy structures that don't age well, I just want to see new developments with street presence and something that shows the developers and architects care about the city/neighborhood in which they're working. So, all that said, these are good, it was more of a general statement that was inappropriately aimed at this project. Things have improved a ton over the past 20 years and credit to folks having a the confidence for pushing back on developers to improve aesthetic tweaks here and there (but eff NIMBY's who outright kill projects, and landmarks is pretty terrible too, but that's another discussion) that meld with the existing neighborhood - or at least interact with it. 2 minutes ago, X said: Buildings like these aren't impressive for how they look on their own, but they are nice pieces to an urban whole- the 2nd and 3rd violins of the urban streetscape. This puts it perfectly, kind of what I'm trying to get at. Older builds from mid aughts and even early '10s don't speak to the neighborhood around them as much as new builds do and will most likely be torn down as we do with 60's apt buildings. I'm glad a lot of the projects that come up are turning the corner.
June 13, 20214 yr Crain's Cleveland: Gorgeous Ohio City mansion is taking wing as apartments https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/gorgeous-ohio-city-mansion-taking-wing-apartments
June 13, 20214 yr Fencing is up and looks like construction is about to commence on the Hingetown Creative Hangars.
June 14, 20214 yr Gorgeous Ohio City mansion is taking wing as apartments Stan Bullard - Crain's Cleveland Business - June 13, 2021 Russell Rhodes Mansion - 2905 Franklin Blvd, Cleveland, OH 44113 "The bones of the place — from cornices around the windows to tall ceilings and wooden floors — are in place. On its way to the current owner's conversion of the place to 33 apartments, the property had been the home of the county archives since 1975. The property went into play for redevelopment following the county's 2019 move of the document repository to 3951 Perkins Ave. ... Long-term plans call for building four townhouses on Franklin frontage west of the mansion. That will allow the former garden next to the mansion to become, effectively, a courtyard. ... In a change of pace from new apartments transforming sections of Ohio City, Gillespie is also trying to hit a niche for lower-priced units in the annex building. He hopes to offer suites, some for as little as $750 monthly. The two-bedrooms in the character-rich mansion will be pricier, upward of $1,000."
June 18, 20213 yr Don't drag politics into development threads. The thread will get locked. You may get time off.
June 18, 20213 yr My block club provided renderings for Harbor 44 Phase 2. Looks like apartments and townhomes on what are currently open lots. They'll need some rezoning/reparceling to support the plan. Overall I'm supportive, but the conceptual elevation is pretty bland. I'm hoping that they can improve that aspect before it gets built (color and real renderings will probably help that front too).
June 18, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, dastler said: My block club provided renderings for Harbor 44 Phase 2. Looks like apartments and townhomes on what are currently open lots. They'll need some rezoning/reparceling to support the plan. Overall I'm supportive, but the conceptual elevation is pretty bland. I'm hoping that they can improve that aspect before it gets built (color and real renderings will probably help that front too). Great to see a phase 2 already in the works before phase 1 is even completed.
June 23, 20213 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20213 yr 10 minutes ago, KJP said: 1. I love this, and was telling my mom about it this morning at Einstein Bagels in Middleburg Heights; 2. A gentleman in his 50s interrupted and said "now I'm definitely never coming down to Ohio City, and if I do, I'm going to hang a 10 foot 2x4 out of my truck window"
June 23, 20213 yr 17 minutes ago, YABO713 said: 2. A gentleman in his 50s interrupted and said "now I'm definitely never coming down to Ohio City, and if I do, I'm going to hang a 10 foot 2x4 out of my truck window" This is infuriating. But I don't want to derail the thread. I'm a pretty good city cyclist and there's still plenty of areas that are super sketchy- Lorain isn't terrible, but I also can't imagine a family/kids riding on it (or many E-W OC streets) which is something this track would provide. I hope this comes back into play at some point under a new administration. (I'll keep the rest of my bike/mayoral opinions to the appropriate side of the forums)
June 24, 20213 yr On 6/18/2021 at 5:30 PM, dastler said: My block club provided renderings for Harbor 44 Phase 2. Looks like apartments and townhomes on what are currently open lots. They'll need some rezoning/reparceling to support the plan. Overall I'm supportive, but the conceptual elevation is pretty bland. I'm hoping that they can improve that aspect before it gets built (color and real renderings will probably help that front too). That's a long schlep with the groceries. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 24, 20213 yr 27 minutes ago, Dougal said: That's a long schlep with the groceries. Where? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 24, 20213 yr I think @Dougalis talking about the living and kitchen floor being on the third floor of the townhomes versus being on the second floor. Maybe the developers will put in a pulley system off the back of the patio as part of some faux-industrial aesthetic.
June 24, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, Jukeboxer said: I think @Dougalis talking about the living and kitchen floor being on the third floor of the townhomes versus being on the second floor. Maybe the developers will put in a pulley system off the back of the patio as part of some faux-industrial aesthetic. Exactly. A dumb waiter or a fitness freak is needed here. 😬 Being currently in a house search, I'm acutely aware of stairs. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 24, 20213 yr 4 hours ago, Dougal said: Exactly. A dumb waiter or a fitness freak is needed here. 😬 Being currently in a house search, I'm acutely aware of stairs. I feel like that has to be an error. Like every house has the bedrooms on the floor above the kitchen. Who would want their guests to going through their bedroom level to get to the kitchen. Doesn't make sense.
June 25, 20213 yr I've seen that on houses on the Outer Banks, where the living spaces are at the top to maximize the views of the ocean. We stayed in a rental like that, and the extra set of stairs was wearying after awhile.
June 25, 20213 yr A few interesting demolitions/renovations/builds presented at Landmarks yesterday for Lorain Ave. The first is demolishing a portion of 4434 Lorain Ave (for most of it's history, a funeral home) and renovating the original structure from the 1860's into a retail/living space. This was approved unanimously. The second is the demolition of 4909 Lorain Ave. A beautiful building in it's day but through decades of neglect has become a nuisance. UCS proposes to extend their footprint even more and build offices and work spaces for the school along with a retail component to help UCS members learn about business. I'm not sure on the status of this as the live stream cut out earlier than expected on YouTube. Edited June 25, 20213 yr by downtownjoe correction
June 25, 20213 yr Whew! I thought they were going to demo the old structure facing Lorain. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 25, 20213 yr I believe it was mentioned during the hearing that the UCS project is still in its conceptual state and the design could/will change. I hope so as that corner "bell tower" could use some work.
June 25, 20213 yr 7 hours ago, KJP said: Whew! I thought they were going to demo the old structure facing Lorain. That is what they're asking to demo. Also, they want to have the city vacate W. 48th.
June 29, 20213 yr Ohio City developer to rehab historic funeral home on Lorain Avenue into retail, apartments https://www.thelandcle.org/stories/ohio-city-developer-to-rehab-historic-funeral-home-on-lorain-avenue-into-retail-apartments "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 29, 20213 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 20213 yr WEDNESDAY, JULY 14, 2021 Line between Tremont and Ohio City blurs with more investment More new development projects are coming to the northwest corner of Cleveland's Tremont neighborhood, called Duck Island. And they are coming to the east-central flank of Ohio City, called Market Square. The presence of so much activity here is starting to blur the line between the two neighborhoods. For decades, it was pretty easy to visualize where one neighborhood ended and the other began by finding the void of buildings and city life. The only activity at that void were the riders using the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority's (GCRTA) Ohio City Red Line rail station. That rail line and its trench, recently augmented by the Red Line Greenway, is the actual line of demarcation of between the two jurisdictions. MORE https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/07/line-between-tremont-and-ohio-city.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 20213 yr I'll resort to posting a tweet rather than my usual way.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: I'll resort to posting a tweet rather than my usual way.... Great scoop(s)! Any idea on timelines for Corus or the Green Opal salon?
July 15, 20213 yr That is awesome news about Nature's Oasis moving in. Great addition to this corner of Ohio City, and cool to see a local business expanding there.
July 16, 20213 yr 3 hours ago, BJBaes said: Great scoop(s)! Any idea on timelines for Corus or the Green Opal salon? Frankly, I'm surprised Green Opal hasn't opened already. I reported about them coming in to Church+State months ago. Corus should take less time to open, probably by fall. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 20, 20213 yr Some info from my block club regarding a 12 unit apartment building from Horton Harper at 2222 Fulton. I'm a bit nervous that it'll be harder for me to find parking on the street (we get two street spots right in front of my house ~95% of the time) but I guess it's time for me to start practicing what I preach and encourage this added density! This project is proposed on a double wide lot that currently has a single family home, so 11 additional units on the same acreage. I should note that Cha has also been proposed for further up the street near Lorain. I know it's been brought up before, but if we can continue to add density near this corner it starts to make more and more sense to add a red line stop at Fulton. Edited July 20, 20213 yr by dastler
July 21, 20213 yr should be a nice view heading north on W. 25th towards Ohio city once treo gets built....
July 21, 20213 yr @dastler 😒 Well, that is some austere looking @%*#^! Compared to the residential form and design of what is on either side of it, I'm actually appalled at the paucity of architectural interest. It is neither creative nor inspired, and shows no indication of aspiration to either. What it is, is a low-ball low budget, battleship grey fail to meet the design integrity of an entire community. IMO This stuff is architectural fly-over country. I sincerely wish for the City/community to give them the needed feedback we all so roundly applauded when they politely told Sherwin Williams to go back to the drawing board over elements of their new HQ. Given the higher density of this development compared to its surroundings, there should be cost savings that support additional design amenities than what are shown. - Ugh! - NIMBYs of Cleveland where are you? Please come out of the woodwork on this one. Edited July 21, 20213 yr by ExPatClevGuy
July 21, 20213 yr ^Sorry but I will have to disagree with you. Horton and Harper do excellent work. Their architecture is very modern with a lot of clean lines. And their work is hardly low budget. You should check out their portfolio. Edited July 21, 20213 yr by Htsguy
July 21, 20213 yr ^IMHO: When Horton Harper uses brick as the principal material, the designs look quite beautiful. When they go away from brick, it is much more hit or miss.
Create an account or sign in to comment