1 hour ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I'll keep saying it. This city is a dying carcass with it's suburbs continuing to poach every last every tax generating commercial enterprise it has left. Eaton. Voss. Medical Mutual. CLeveland Browns. Progressive. Now Great Lakes apparently.

Eaton left 10+ years ago, Progressive deal fell through in the 90s-2000s and the Cleveland Browns situation is a vastly different reason, billionaire greed. Why are you on this URBAN site again? You hate the city.

I am hoping GLB can find a suitable space for the production facility somewhere in the city. What about the old Platform

Brewing building I wonder if that is available. With that said I was never on board with the GLB moving the production to SP. I mean I hope they would still build something along the river but there could be another 400/500 residences where the production facility would go. Even if they just built something on the river they could get another partner on board to build something mixed use for the other part.

In reality the national acme site would be perfect but they'd never build in that neighborhood.

Why not the Opportunity Corridor in the East Side food district? I mean, beer is food -- isn't it??

49 minutes ago, KJP said:

Why not the Opportunity Corridor in the East Side food district? I mean, beer is food -- isn't it??

I thought about that too but I didn't know how much land was already accounted for

5 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I'll keep saying it. This city is a dying carcass with it's suburbs continuing to poach every last every tax generating commercial enterprise it has left. Eaton. Voss. Medical Mutual. CLeveland Browns. Progressive. Now Great Lakes apparently.

Yet incomes taxes collected in the City of Cleveland continue to increase every year🤔

9 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I'll keep saying it. This city is a dying carcass with it's suburbs continuing to poach every last every tax generating commercial enterprise it has left. Eaton. Voss. Medical Mutual. CLeveland Browns. Progressive. Now Great Lakes apparently.

Or, another take.

The city lacks great amounts of buildable land near a highway polluted with exhaust fumes and access to Olive Gardens. So GLB has a recent MBA grad armed wth an excel spreadsheet, ill-fitting dockers and a lust for advancement, who pitching this land as a way that GLB can worry only about their bottom line, and not their legacy in Cleveland.

10 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

I'll keep saying it. This city is a dying carcass with it's suburbs continuing to poach every last every tax generating commercial enterprise it has left. Eaton. Voss. Medical Mutual. CLeveland Browns. Progressive. Now Great Lakes apparently.

Bub you gotta balance yourself out. There ae so many new enterprises in the last 10-20 years. Maybe theyre not as big as a 40yr old successful brewery but your vision is stuck in the past and your missing whats right in front of you.

I think he’s overly negative, but I mostly see news stories of companies wanting to leave to the burbs or the region in general. I can only think of a few positives.

10 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Eaton left 10+ years ago, Progressive deal fell through in the 90s-2000s and the Cleveland Browns situation is a vastly different reason, billionaire greed. Why are you on this URBAN site again? You hate the city.

Pessimistic? Sure probably, but I don't think he hates the city, sounds far more disappointed than happy that we can't keep things Downtown.

Theres some good stuff going on like what Dan Gilbert is doing, the SHW building, some other building rehabs, the possible soccer stadium and I'm confident David Blitzer will in time be an asset to Downtown, we do actually have some positive local political leaders too. However between these various losses and the constant lingering threats over the years when leases come up like Gray Media, Amtrust, the FBI, the struggles to fill empty/underutilized buildings and the many empty surface lots, my feeling is we are sort of just about attemping to keep our heads above the water. Heck its been hard enough to keep city jobs like the Police HQ down there.

What is equally tough though aside from development is outside of places like this and a handful of other outlets like Signal Cleveland, is the mentality of most people, they don't understand or even care. All they know is the strip mall convenience life and the fear mongering about crime and traffic/parking Downtown.

To be fair, I don't think this suburban mindset is entirely unique to Cleveland, its not like we are the only metro area having this problem.

I'm guessing it's cheaper and faster to repurpose the building in Westlake, which appears to be in good shape. My assumption is the challenge Cleveland has securing modern industrial businesses stems from the fact that it doesn't have many existing buildings that are ready to go or there is not much open land to build on and when it does, it sounds like the permitting process is longer and more onerous than in many suburbs.

On the flip side, because of all our sprawl over decades, there are lots of existing buildings around the region that can be a good fit. I wish more businesses would be civic-minded but it's tough in a competitive market to leave savings on the table. I could be way off with my analysis and welcome other views on it.

2 minutes ago, coneflower said:

I'm guessing it's cheaper and faster to repurpose the building in Westlake, which appears to be in good shape. My assumption is the challenge Cleveland has securing modern industrial businesses stems from the fact that it doesn't have many existing buildings that are ready to go or there is not much open land to build on and when it does, it sounds like the permitting process is longer and more onerous than in many suburbs.

On the flip side, because of all our sprawl over decades, there are lots of existing buildings around the region that can be a good fit. I wish more businesses would be civic-minded but it's tough in a competitive market to leave savings on the table. I could be way off with my analysis and welcome other views on it.

To add to this previous administrations didnt seem to prioritize readying land for new ventures. The unusable structures that were cleared in the past seemed to be very piecemeal, uncoordinated and the land required for modern uses cant do much with the smaller parcels of early 20th century industrialization that a lot fo Cleveland was left with.

The work the Land Bank and Bibbs admin are doing now, i forget the name its going by, the city will have larger consolidated land and maybe even some repurposed classic industrial buildings.

This should have happened much sooner, but its happening now and thats what matters.

1 hour ago, FutureboyWonder said:

The work the Land Bank and Bibbs admin are doing now, i forget the name its going by, the city will have larger consolidated land and maybe even some repurposed classic industrial buildings.

Site Readiness For Good Jobs Fund. A horrible name for a wonderful intention.

11 hours ago, KJP said:

Why not the Opportunity Corridor in the East Side food district? I mean, beer is food -- isn't it??

It does seem like the perfect combination of staying in the city, large enough site, highway access and would piggyback on the food district concept. The Opportunity Corridor was built for this exact kind of investment. I hope city leaders are being proactive here.

I love the idea of the OC. I kinda like the original SP plan, but I really don’t think that’s the highest and best use of that land. And I hate the Westlake, Avon anything else idea.

8 hours ago, KJP said:

Site Readiness For Good Jobs Fund. A horrible name for a wonderful intention.

Reminds me of "Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too"

On 6/6/2025 at 6:42 PM, coneflower said:

This is unfortunate

Having GLBC on the Scranton Peninsula would be cool, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing...GLBC will retain the brewpub on Market Ave, and is still committed to an entertainment venue on the river. So while losing the jobs to the suburbs is s a loss, I'm not that bummed that a 200,000sf production facility is moving outside of the city core.

On 6/6/2025 at 7:23 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

This city is a dying carcass

In traditional city planning, industrial uses would be located at the outskirts of the city- or along transportation routes (which are now highways instead of rivers). Ideally, your city core is too valuable to put industrial uses there. You want that land for people. So with an industrial use moving away form the core, and apartments on the Scranton Peninsula under construction, doesn't this kind of indicate that the City is not a "dying carcass", but increasingly a place that people want to be?

I guess a small consolation would be that the jobs would be staying in Cuyahoga County rather than going to Lorain (Avon) per the first proposal.

24 minutes ago, Dino said:

Having GLBC on the Scranton Peninsula would be cool, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing...GLBC will retain the brewpub on Market Ave, and is still committed to an entertainment venue on the river. So while losing the jobs to the suburbs is s a loss, I'm not that bummed that a 200,000sf production facility is moving outside of the city core.

In traditional city planning, industrial uses would be located at the outskirts of the city- or along transportation routes (which are now highways instead of rivers). Ideally, your city core is too valuable to put industrial uses there. You want that land for people. So with an industrial use moving away form the core, and apartments on the Scranton Peninsula under construction, doesn't this kind of indicate that the City is not a "dying carcass", but increasingly a place that people want to be?

That's great and all for places like Columbus who's city limits expand out to the freeways and as a result, still gets the income tax and property tax. I'm still waiting on to hear how Voss leaving for apartments is a plus for the city. Income and property tax lost, no tax from new residents from that former facility yet. And still a dead space centrally in the neighborhood. That's why I call it a carcass. I'd have a different tune if this city was even growing at the rate that equaled Cincinatti. So yea, forgive me for being pessimistic when Cleveland continues to lose these large entities to it's suburbs when nothing is substantially replacing it to either break even or be a net positive (including influx of new residents and housing).

20 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

So yea, forgive me for being pessimistic

Ok, I'll forgive you, only if you forgive me for being an optimist! I agree regionalism is still a struggle, and it's a tug of war with the suburbs. But I'm banking that the 200 jobs lost will be replaced by another 600 residents, and that retail and apartments will create a cooler vibe in this downtown-adjacent new neighborhood. I'm not saying this is great news, just that it isn't the most terrible news.

28 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

That's great and all for places like Columbus who's city limits expand out to the freeways and as a result, still gets the income tax and property tax. I'm still waiting on to hear how Voss leaving for apartments is a plus for the city. Income and property tax lost, no tax from new residents from that former facility yet. And still a dead space centrally in the neighborhood. That's why I call it a carcass. I'd have a different tune if this city was even growing at the rate that equaled Cincinatti. So yea, forgive me for being pessimistic when Cleveland continues to lose these large entities to it's suburbs when nothing is substantially replacing it to either break even or be a net positive (including influx of new residents and housing).

As I said above income tax, property tax as well as GDP continue to increase in the City of Cleveland and that has been the case for a while now. So the doom and gloom you speak of about how companies are leaving Cleveland really doesn't seem to be having the net effect you're trying to portray.

Homes being demolished today on the site of the proposed 50 West development by My Place Group. This could probably go in the DS/GS thread as well.

25 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Homes being demolished today on the site of the proposed 50 West development by My Place Group. This could probably go in the DS/GS thread as well.

Is the 45 West project by them also under way down the street? I kind of forgot about these two developments...

4 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Is the 45 West project by them also under way down the street? I kind of forgot about these two developments...

Not sure.

25 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Is the 45 West project by them also under way down the street? I kind of forgot about these two developments...

20 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Not sure.

No it hasn't started. Not a word since the small building on Lorain that was supposed to be renovated with this project caught fire and was demolished.

Put a GLBC thought in the hypothetical thread since I wouldn't want to continue the discussion in this one.

Does anyone know what's happening with the Franklin Yards project / specifically the new townhouses being built north of Franklin? The construction got up to ground level, and since then, very little has happened for 2 weeks or more. Then about a week ago, two of these signs popped up. 🤔

Edited Wednesday at 12:22 AM3 days by Paul in Cleveland

On 6/10/2025 at 12:35 PM, marty15 said:

Homes being demolished today on the site of the proposed 50 West development by My Place Group. This could probably go in the DS/GS thread as well.

i really dig the potential here, i hope they look this good in person

Love the reuse of the brick building on the corner as well with a patio on the roof:

3 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Love the reuse of the brick building on the corner as well with a patio on the roof:

And you still have NIMBY's on Facebook complaining that they're replacing the bar there that hasn't been open for 20+ years with housing. This is objectively one of MyPlace's better designs and fills a big void. Hope this is the start to it getting built, built.

57 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Love the reuse of the brick building on the corner as well with a patio on the roof

Agreed. I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out. They did a good job of making the existing building feel like part of the overall design.