well I feel confident local politicans could be "convinced" to make it happen.

I always thought it would be great to have a houseboat community up here. So much underutilized waterfront, so much opportunity.....

now that the proposed townhomes on the southern edge of scranton have been scrapped, it seems that this portion could be open to houseboats again. 

 

there used to be a couple down there, leasing space from landowner.  i don't know what agreements they had with city/feds to be on the water, but they were there.

 

it also seems that some of the marinas could support permanent houseboats, but maybe the locations of the marinas aren't perfect for living, idk.

now that the proposed townhomes on the southern edge of scranton have been scrapped, it seems that this portion could be open to houseboats again. 

 

there used to be a couple down there, leasing space from landowner.  i don't know what agreements they had with city/feds to be on the water, but they were there.

 

The houseboats (including the red A-frame that's now near Collision Bend) didn't need an agreement from any gummint entities.  Scaravelli had a submerged land lease there at Marina Bay.  Actually, that's not quite accurate; where the marina exists now was dry land as recently as 1986.  Scaravelli subsequently carved out the marina.

 

Now, the navigation channel doesn't actually extend from shoreline to shoreline.  There are numerous spots in the Cuyahoga where the river is wide enough that only the section in the middle is dredged to ~23 ft. for lake carriers.  Which leads us back to Irishtown Bend; according to the 2005 Corps of Eng. sounding chart, about 20 feet from the current shoreline into the River is not part of the navigation channel, so boats could be docked there.  However, you'd still need to get power/sewer/water.

"..Power, sewer, water" well 2 out of 3 are already there  :evil:

Was in Ohio City this weekend and went past the newest townhomes on the south east corner of Clinton and W. 32.  Love the look of these.  Anyone know why this project ended?  I think there's 6 or 7 done and they had planned to build 7 or so more.  Now I see a sign with a phone number offering the fully improved site for sale.  What happened?

 

I wonder how the current residents feel as they bought with the thought of their being more of the same around them and now who knows what will happen?

^ I was @ a party pretty much next door this weekend and they did look REALLY sharp. With any luck, once the market rebounds a little, the adjacent parcel will go quickly ... it really is a prime space.

Was in Ohio City this weekend and went past the newest townhomes on the south east corner of Clinton and W. 32.  Love the look of these.  Anyone know why this project ended?  I think there's 6 or 7 done and they had planned to build 7 or so more.  Now I see a sign with a phone number offering the fully improved site for sale.  What happened?

 

I wonder how the current residents feel as they bought with the thought of their being more of the same around them and now who knows what will happen?

 

They are beautiful. Too beautiful to sell quickly. They were going for about $500k. Phase I sold out in about 18 months. The reason why phase II isn't going forward: an inexperienced developer who wanted to cash in rather than wait for a few pre-sales.

 

Down the street, hopefully the first of the 5 Clinton Courts townhomes is about to be sold. On that block of Clinton, two other homes are currently undergoing renovation.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-4/119399261796190.xml&coll=2

 

Kind of cool to have a real Amish store right on Market Square.  I hope they do well.

He takes a taxi 45 miles each way? Ouch!!!

Only until we get the Amish Rapid Line up and running  :wink:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-4/119399261796190.xml&coll=2

 

Kind of cool to have a real Amish store right on Market Square.  I hope they do well.

 

Great article!  Thanks for posting.  I'm planning to stop there this weekend to check it out.

its not quite market square, but where the pride of cleveland scooter shop used to be located. I always see a bike out front. Maybe he bikes in????

To the posters who have lived in Ohio City for a good amount of time - Do you feel the area has progressed or just churned?

 

I'm referring to the housing stock.  There's new development mixed in with old... but on any given street there's new, newly refurbished, been refurbished (3-5) years ago.. looking tired, and flat out needs TLC!!  Even some of the stuff that was new 10 years ago is starting to look tired.  Sometimes I think the area is really gaining steam and other times I think, just as momentum is gaining, people move on for whatever reason creating the churn and not progress.  Maybe it will always have a mix of old and new but the century homes look to be flat out labor intensive, money pits.  Good for some but probably not enough gluttons for punishment to get all of them done at once creating the revolving circle.

 

What do you think?

and I love the Amish guy's quote, "Just because it's changing, doesn't mean it's gone"!

 

That's so true! 

 

Why are so many of 'us' so arrogant and/or ignorant to think that our fair city (whether or not one thinks the ideal Cleveland was pre-freeways or when the Flats were booming) would stand firms against the sands of time and not change--not EVOLVE into the rich/dynamic place it is today?  Hell, the city wasn't occupied by Nazis, burnt to the ground, or leveled by a flood but there are too many out there who b*tch about the place because we lost some blue collar jobs and some random stores so our main avenue could be restored to the grand artery it once was.  Ok, so there's more to the story than that BUT the real issue is that too many people are afraid of the change and would rather spend the rest of their life complaining about it instead of accepting it and making the most of the situation. 

 

If an Amish man can be so accepting of the world we live in, why can't we? 

 

Another thing, I'm SOOOOO sick of hearing people B*TCH about the 2 days of 'cold' weather!  These idiots have probably lived here their entire lives know that it won't be 80 and sunny 365 day out of the year.  God, get over it!  It's only November 7th!  AHH!  Leave if it's that bad!

 

Anyways, back on topic to the OC-my home-and welcome Amish and all!  :clap:

To the posters who have lived in Ohio City for a good amount of time - Do you feel the area has progressed or just churned?

 

I'm surprised that no one has responded yet. 

 

I would say that progress is definitely the word.  The dining/bar scene has held its own and even grown a bit.  Dave's and the West Side Market continue to provide the 'hood with solid amenity anchors, even if no other significant retail growth has occurred.  Housing has held strong and projects like the YMCA on Franklin and the West Side Community House on Bridge are feeding off of the excess demand for condos in multi-unit buildings.  The rental market appears strong to me... super convenient and not excessively expensive if you know where to look.  Recent rental conversions with higher end prices like the Knitting Mills and Fries & Scheule have had great occupancy rates for what I've heard.  The for-sale market is definitely competitive.  I know of properties that have sold after 30 days on the market and others on the same block that have been on the market for more than a year.  It's like that anywhere, though.  It's really about unique product in unique locations and the OC has plenty of both.  Prices are higher in the OC for an otherwise equal property 30 blocks west in Detroit-Shoreway...one of the reasons why I ended up buying down the road.  Trade-offs are access to the lake and Gordon Square versus proximity to Downtown/WSM and Market Ave/W. 25th.  I still prefer the OC, but I definitely couldn't have afforded my home there!

 

Anyone else?

I see that the Detroit-Superior Lofts project is going to Landmarks this week. That would be a significant boost for that portion of Ohio City.

It's also being listed by realtors.  A friend of mine is looking to move back to Cleveland from DC and he's received information on it.

^yeah, but the Vine Industrials have been listed for about two years now and nothings going on with them. I see the Landmarks move as a good sign that this might be breaking ground soon.

 

Now that I've lived in Ohio City for about 18 months, its pretty easy to see the progress. I think that impressions can be misleading when you drive in from out of the area for a dinner and drinks and then head home. There is a lot of low income housing in the area. Slowly, its gentrifying. I'll talk about this more later..

"To the posters who have lived in Ohio City for a good amount of time - Do you feel the area has progressed or just churned?"

 

neighborhood trends-difficult to answer. I have worked in OC about 3.5 years now. I have lived here (the exiled flats portion of oc) for nearly 3. I think other than new contruction there has been a reduction in real estate costs (and new contruction sales are slower) . I say this b/c a peruse quite a bit.  there are some amazing homes that seem to be in grasps when a few years ago they were a little high (a renovated brick Victorian on Bridge for 200,000?? sweet) .  I go to the WS market every day it is open. As you know this gives you plenty of face time with the locals. It seems like a some people think, as they do citywide, we are having some serous crime issues. The families I work with in the neighborhood,many who have lived in the area for decades, also complain. We know stats may back up perceptions about crime issues, but there is a tendency  human nature to reminisce about "good old days" that may or may not have existed.  Neverhteless anecdotally and unscientifically I think we have been getting a bit of a break lately on the near west side (remember when we were getting all the murders last year?).

 

Unless I am out of town, I am of course in the neighborhood nearly every single day. I can count on my hand the times I have felt ill at ease (bus stop late at night Detroit and 25th, walking from OC to the flats down w.25th late at night). I know from the brevity reports I get, it is probably not something to do on regular basis.  I feel the area around my home has become much safer. We were one of the first to move in out building, and it is lost the wild, wild west feel it sometimes had (I will spare details) .

 

It goes without saying, I would not live in Cleveland suburb (OK maybe inner ring). If I no longer felt safe in Cleveland, I would just leave the area entirely. I do think something rather aggressive needs to be done about crime though (and more important, addressing all the issues that lead up to it goes w/o saying) Only a fraction of potential "gentrifers" will move to a neighborhood that still has a ways to go to stabilize safety issues. Me personally, (lets hope I do not eat my words) would rather be a bit of pioneer than risk my sanity or soul in the burbs or chace getting plowed down by soccor mom on the in an SUV on the way to buy crap at walmart. but thats just me. 

Crime needs to be addressed all over the city. I know my building keeps getting broken into over on Lorain.. I also know that the culprits are from the same pool of people eating free food two buildings down at the soup kitchen. Part of the problem is that we aren't done securing the building properly as we build it out, but still, it's pretty aggravating that there are so many loiterers just wandering around the site all day (or sitting on the freakin' stoop). The same 10 to 15 people.

 

As someone who is into urban design, you tend to not want to make your building look like a fortress, but there is the practical side of things that make you feel you have to. God knows the Cleveland Police have enough to worry about. That said, Finding a way to beef up patrols all over the city is one step.

 

neighborhood trends-difficult to answer. I have worked in OC about 3.5 years now. I have lived here (the exiled flats portion of oc) for nearly 3. 

 

What is considered the exiled flats portion of OC?

 

 

Good to hear different perspectives.

 

With the financial industry really starting to get smoked  :shoot: by the subprime meltdown won't be shocked if liquidity gets tighter.  That could make the pain train even worse for those who need to sell.

I think that Ohio City is a mixed bag. Here are some observations:

 

In some people's minds, the area totally gentified a while ago. Therefore, they see poverty and think that the area is on a downward trend. I think that the presence of a few nice restaurants gives outsiders the impression that the area has come farther than it really has. This is why when they see poverty on the streets they think that the sky has fallen on the OC.

 

In other people's minds, it is an area that has been steadily gentrifying for a while.

 

I, myself, notice that there is a steady march towards the renovation of the existing housing stock. The change is slow, but its there. I also see a lot of homes that are on the market for a long time. i also see some homes sell very very quickly.

 

Newly-constructed housing that is maintenance-free and provides secured parking sells very well.

 

Older properties where you still have to tend to your garden are not as desireable, even if they are really beautiful.

 

Fact: The OC lost population between 1990 and 2000. The OC gained back that population by 2003.

 

Fact: Crime is down (as of 2005).

 

Fact: As of today, a $300,000 home across the street from my house sold in two weeks. :)

 

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-4/119399261796190.xml&coll=2

 

Kind of cool to have a real Amish store right on Market Square.  I hope they do well.

 

Well as if OC could not be eclectic enough, Amish owned businesses are spreading! It seems the above is the same fellow who just opened a pie shop in the WSM

the sad side of the story is they bought Dennison Pie which I loved (esp the quiche when you don't feel like cooking. I never got to say good bye  :cry:). They were open Wed, and looked pretty tasty. The clerks were in full Amish wear and the weekend tourists are sure to swoon over that

 

From the PD:

Amish bakery opens in Cleveland

 

Amish entrepreneur Bill Byler is already expanding his operations in Cleveland. A few weeks after opening Amish Heritage Wood Floors and Furnishings on West 25th Street near Lorain Avenue, Byler now has a bakery at the West Side Market. The new business, Amish Heritage Bakery, was scheduled to open at 7 a.m. today selling pies, rolls and cookies made by Amish families near Byler's home in Middlefield. Byler's brother and sister will operate the store. Byler said the bakery, in a stand formerly occupied by Dennison Pie, is opening a week ahead of schedule in anticipation of Thanksgiving.

 

 

 

Inside scoop:  Walker meats in the WSM is for sale.  If you have $50K and want to own a meat stand, PM me

Word is that another nightclub is trying to occupy the old Moda spot. The neighborhood is investigating.  I also heard that a very classy restaurant is looking at the old City Budha location. 

 

 

One rumor has it is it Heaven and Earth, another homeless club from the east bank. Not sure though

Word is that another nightclub is trying to occupy the old Moda spot. The neighborhood is investigating.

 

I'm told that it's a bar relocating from Old River Road in the Flats. There is a pending request for transferring it's liquor license. Problem is, I can't remember the club's name. But it's a relative newcomer to the Flats (compared to the old stalwarts like Fagan's or Jimmy's).

 

EDIT: That's it! Thanks Peabody. It's Heaven & Earth.

Heaven and Earth on W25th.  I can hear the neighborhood block groups complaining already.  Not sure if I blame them though.  That place has been trash for 10 years in the Flats.

When I heard that someone was buying Moda, I had to wonder 1. who and 2. what kind of space would it become. If we were talking a low-key, higher-end spot - I think the area would be supportive. But Heaven and Earth? I think "heaven and earth" is what they'll have to move to get that place reopened as a club - w28th's right, the Flats location has been a source of bad news for a long time.

Heaven and Earth on W25th. I can hear the neighborhood block groups complaining already. Not sure if I blame them though. That place has been trash for 10 years in the Flats.

 

Yes, the block clubs and CDC have already mobilized.

 

Mayday, the club isn't buying Moda. They'd be a tenant.

Mince mince. ;-)

Has anyone heard any news regarding the Heyse building -- the gold-brick, wedge-shaped building at the corner of Fulton & 28th?  I noticed a lease or for-sale sign on the building awhile back and stumbled upon this article while doing a quick google search.  It's from a local preservation firm's Winter 2006/07 newsletter.  http://www.mcquillinassociates.com/newsletter.htm#Heyse

 

Ohio City's Heyse Building to Become Apartments Once Again

 

     One of Ohio City's grandest apartment buildings will undergo a major renovation in the near future. The Heyse was erected 1897-98 from plans by Steffins, Searles and Hirsch, one of the city's premier architectural firms. They designed the Bohemian National Hall on Broadway in Cleveland and Hruby Conservatory of Music. Glamorgan castle in Alliance, a magnificent marble-faced estate on South Union Avenue, was the firm's greatest commission. It stands today and is used as administrative offices by the Alliance City Schools, for whom Steven McQuillin served as preservation consultant for repairs to this mansion. The firm also designed the Clinton, a similarly styled apartment building at 3617 Clinton Ave., recently rehabilitated, with Steven McQuillin as preservation consultant. It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places earlier this year.

     The Heyse is a magnificent wedge-shaped building with a rock-faced sandstone and buff brick exterior. It is a mixture of Romanesque and Medieval forms, with gothic arches, crenellated parapets, steep gables and elegant entrances. Inside are two interconnected light courts with a large balustered staircase. A small secondary light well has been partially filled and is located in the rear of the building. Some of the units have original fireplace mantels. The building originally had a grand rooftop garden and its fourth floor porch still provides fine views out over the historic Cleveland neighborhood of Ohio City. It was  one  of   the city's  oldest  apartment

buildings. Its imposing architecture reflects a desire to create an aura ofexclusivity around this new housing form, the tall apartment building, for Clevelanders used to single-family housing.

     The Heyse faces onto Franklin Circle, one of Cleveland's more unusual small parks. It is unique as the only example of radial planning in Cleveland. Originally known as Franklin Place, it was surveyed in 1836 and given over to the public by early owners Josiah Barber and Richard Lord. It has a radius of about 140 feet. Until 1857 it housed a farmers market, but was reconstructed that year with a wood fence, pavilion and fountain. In 1872 Franklin St. was placed through the circle and a stone pavilion and rock sculpture were placed on the grounds. It was nicknamed Modoc Park and had a reputation as a forum for public speeches, like London's Hyde Park. President William McKinley spoke here. The Heyse dates from the height of fashion for this

    small park, a time when some of the city's leading citizens such as Mark Hanna and James Ford Rhodes, lived nearby. In 1907-8 streetcar lines were extended through the park. It was renovated in 1984 with period street furniture.

     The Heyse was remodeled in the 1980s with newer partitions, some dropped ceilings and some balcony alterations. This was part of a project that transformed the building into offices, a use for which the building was apparently not well suited. Part of this included filling of parts of the light wells, replacement of open balustrades with half-walls around the balconies and newer flooring materials. But its exteriors are in fine condition and the interior has much potential. Plans call for creating about 30 new apartment units here.

     Kirt Montlack of Montlack Realty is the owner/developer and Mark Fremont is the project architect. Steven McQuillin & Associates are preservation consultants.

 

Anyone else notice that someone put in a request for a state historic tax credit on the Heyse building?  It looks like a rehab of it might move forward after all.  The application is listed as Complete -- hopefully it will be approved.

http://net.odod.state.oh.us/ohptc/

There is a for-sale sign on the building. It is a beautiful building.

edit... dumb question. Now I know the one, across from Lutheran Hospital.

One of my favorite buildings in the city.

The brick detailing is really amazing.

I just want to strengthen the fact that the OC renaissance (and many other neighborhoods in CLE) are far from complete!  The pace of gentrification in CLE is nice as it allows the locals to coexist and adjust to change--allowing for a more diverse neighborhood.  On the flip side, you have disturbances.  While I wish we'd crank up the pace a tad, I'd like to think that the interaction between classes and such today will lead to a more tolerant, EXCITING AND UNIQUE Cleveland of tomorrow. 

that is very cool news about the heyse building. bravo.

Heaven and Earth on W25th.  I can hear the neighborhood block groups complaining already.  Not sure if I blame them though.  That place has been trash for 10 years in the Flats.

I hope the block clubs voice will be heard. I was in a planning commission or council meeting several months ago (in July or August) and there was talk of how to deal with the heaven and earth business. In fact one councilman, Zack Reed, objected to making the strip club district which essentially was to set up Hustler, when the owner of Heaven and Earth was basically getting the shaft. He said he would only support the district if an agreement was made (detail to be ironed out) to take care of the owner of H&E. There was a verbal agreement to assist H and E and that time and Reed then in turn supported the strip club district. Of course this is all on public record. So this deal has probably been cooking for a while and it was "sprung" on the neighborhood when it may be too late. 

 

First of all let me remind people in case it is not abundantly clear, I am close to clueless when it comes to understanding zoning. That said, I have experienced much flack (not here ) for suggesting Cleveland neighborhoods should be able to have more of a say in the type of businesses that come to the neighborhood rather than politicians and business owners. As painful is it is to see an empty storefront, I think we have to ask what each and every business will contribute to a community. People get really stuck on rights of individuals/businesses and strait interpretation of zoning.  I have lived in ,visited, and read about places where residents have been very successful in being heard and stopped business such as night clubs, Wal-Mart’s and even chain restaurants and coffee shops. Whether or not there is evidence that these will harm the neighborhood is not the issue, but enough people feel these business will not contribute to the overall quality of life and vision of the neighborhood, and they are respected.  This appear to be pretty vibrant places, or I would not even mention it.

 

I think it is a matter of looking at the needs of many over the needs of a few people that will profit... I am not certainly not anti-development or anti business-however we are more in need of vision for our inner city neighborhoods than ever before. As a side note, when I was walking home from work a couple nights ago, the lights were on in Moda and there were a few people inside-something I have not seen in a long time. 

 

Just to update you guys; Heaven and Earth (from the Flats) did in fact apply for and receive a liquor license transfer for the Rialto Theatre (Moda) location. That happened (got approved by the State) this past Saturday.

:evil:Nope I'm wrong, they don't work on Saturday...it was Friday!

I knew I liked you Peabody; I don't live in OC although who knows, maybe some day (I live in the non sexy triskett/lorain area because I can afford it lol). What I love about OC is  the mix, it's not all just gentrified. But it's great to get a resident perspective, thanks!

I assure you, OC is not gentrified! I don't want a bunch of yuppie businesses either-just great places that contribute to many or all and make people feel good about visiting or living here (and make people want to buy here so Carol can make big bucks).  I know this had to have been working quietly behind the scences b/c as you see, there is an uproar. I am sure if I had put 1 and 1 together, I could have seen it coming.

Peabody yeah, it must have been in the works a while. As for the big bucks, a good living is fine lol.  We had a fundraiser at Bar Cento last week for Children's Care Fund and the food was as good as any I had when I lived on the East Coast. I agree with you, and from what I hear, the neighborhood has continuously worked hard to make sure it doesn't become gentrified. You are lucky to live in such an active community

Ohio City in sights of architectural firm

 

By JAY MILLER

 

4:30 am, December 17, 2007

 

An architectural and interior design firm plans to spend $1 million to buy and renovate a building in Ohio City for its Cleveland office.

 

The firm, mbi/k2m Architecture, has received an $800,000 Cuyahoga County commercial redevelopment loan for purchasing and updating the two-story building at 3121 Bridge Ave.

 

It currently is located at 2530 Superior Ave.

 

The county made the loan to the firm because it has pledged to create 10 new jobs over the next five years.

 

The practice also has offices in Key West, Fla., and Charlotte, N.C.

I know that bldg somewhat, and that is good to hear, Blinker

Okay, I also have some new info which is that apparently the approval for the license has been held up for a few weeks.  The liq lic site (State) made it look like it was transferred . Still true that it has been in the works for a bit.

hey, that's the 2nd architecture firm to move in and around that Fulton street/Lorain ave area..

 

Anybody who knows another, tell 'em to give me an IM.. I'll gladly let an architecture firm build out space at the my Oddfellows building.