MTS there is a disproportionate amount of subsidized housing in ohio city. not in a good way.

MTS there is a disproportionate amount of subsidized housing in ohio city. not in a good way.

 

I personally don't think that a person who lives in a certain type of housing should be "summed up" or categorized in a certain way.

 

Where someone lives is not indicative of their financial or social status.

The biggest problem with these sorts of developments is that they are constructed new with the best of intentions, and then, as time goes by the standard of tenant drops and you have an area that becomes a forcefield that repells any sort of investment in the area.  As an Ohio City resident, diversity is important to the character of the neighborhood, but as far as I'm concerned, the strata of society that is currently over served is the lower.  Having soup kitchens from the Shoreway to I-71 already produces a line of degenerates throughout the day.  Not sure this income level needs any more housing options.

I looked into public housing for myself, and yes it has everything to do with financial status.  Look over an application some time.

Still... concentrating so many people below the poverty line in one area will always have some negative consequences.  And classist or not, it will deter some people from ever coming to let alone residing in an area.  I mean it's not too hard to figure out why commercial development in OC on 25th essentially comes to a screaching halt once you pass Bridge Ave. heading North.  It's essentially all low income housing from that point all the way to the lake and it has put a stranglehold on on W.25th's development.  Most of the neighborhood restoration in the core of OC has succeeded in spite of that... not in conjunction with it.

 

I'm with 327 and 3231 we need to start figuring ways to evenly disperse low income residents, not piling them all into one area.  Ohio City already carries more than its fair share of the burden.

 

By the way, I agree about the summed up part.  Lots of good people get a bad rap because of a handful of thugs that take advantage of the system... but that doesn't change the fact that the thugs are coming out of it.  Take it from me, I live across from Winton Manor, I see this stuff often.  And I often remark how bad I feel for the many, many, many good people that live in that building.

MTS there is a disproportionate amount of subsidized housing in ohio city. not in a good way.

 

I personally don't think that a person who lives in a certain type of housing should be "summed up" or categorized in a certain way.

 

Where someone lives is not indicative of their financial or social status.

 

If you do not want to categorize, so be it.  If you want to put your hand in the sand and not be observant of general norms, continue to walk around disregarding natural observations.

 

Where someone lives is not indicative of their financial status?  Huh?  So if I am living in public housing, are you honestly going to say that there is just as good a chance that I am rich as there is that I am poor?

 

And it's not being classist.  If subsidized housing and its inhabitants were not responsible for an influx of crime, then I would be the first to live next door.   

 

Now please, I am not saying everyone, so don't go there.  But as the old saying goes, "a rotten apple spoils the whole barrel."

MTS there is a disproportionate amount of subsidized housing in ohio city. not in a good way.

 

The biggest problem with these sorts of developments is that they are constructed new with the best of intentions, and then, as time goes by the standard of tenant drops and you have an area that becomes a forcefield that repells any sort of investment in the area.  As an Ohio City resident, diversity is important to the character of the neighborhood, but as far as I'm concerned, the strata of society that is currently over served is the lower.  Having soup kitchens from the Shoreway to I-71 already produces a line of degenerates throughout the day.  Not sure this income level needs any more housing options.

 

Understood.  Not living in OC, but only being a visitor I don't see that "day-to-day" connection and that is a valid concern.

Regarding the Exhibit Builders project: it will have about 67 market-rate rental apartments split between the Exhibit Builders and the old CMHA HQ building. Work has already started on the charter school space on the first floor of the CMHA HQ building. Originally, the developer wanted to include some subsidized units, but OCNW was able to dissuade him from going that route.

Still... concentrating so many people below the poverty line in one area will always have some negative consequences.  And classist or not, it will deter some people from ever coming to let alone residing in an area.  I mean it's not too hard to figure out why commercial development in OC on 25th essentially comes to a screaching halt once you pass Bridge Ave. heading North.  It's essentially all low income housing from that point all the way to the lake and it has put a stranglehold on on W.25th's development.  Most of the neighborhood restoration in the core of OC has succeeded in spite of that... not in conjunction with it.

 

I'm with 327 and 3231 we need to start figuring ways to evenly disperse low income residents, not piling them all into one area.  Ohio City already carries more than its fair share of the burden.

 

I completely understand this argument, but if you start spreading it out, then all areas begin to be affected.  This is why I hate the Section 8 voucher system.  The crimes will be committed regardless, why spread them to other areas?  As I'm writing this, I know it is quite insensitive.  But at the same time, I think we need to look at this argument with a renewed sense of realisim.

 

 

 

I’m playing devil’s advocate here MTS. Would you support "income-qualified" housing in Shaker Square, or more precise, in your back yard?

Man, I sure started some shit with that post of mine!  :-D

I’m playing devil’s advocate here MTS. Would you support "income-qualified" housing in Shaker Square, or more precise, in your back yard?

 

There are already income qualified homes in the SS area.  In NYC i'm located a block away from a several massive housing projects.

 

I don't have a problem with it, as not all people who are poor are bad.  Like the Mayor says, some people catch the wrath (or are stereotyped)  because of the actions of a few.

 

I have relatives that live in that area.

Still... concentrating so many people below the poverty line in one area will always have some negative consequences. And classist or not, it will deter some people from ever coming to let alone residing in an area. I mean it's not too hard to figure out why commercial development in OC on 25th essentially comes to a screaching halt once you pass Bridge Ave. heading North. It's essentially all low income housing from that point all the way to the lake and it has put a stranglehold on on W.25th's development. Most of the neighborhood restoration in the core of OC has succeeded in spite of that... not in conjunction with it.

 

I'm with 327 and 3231 we need to start figuring ways to evenly disperse low income residents, not piling them all into one area. Ohio City already carries more than its fair share of the burden.

 

I completely understand this argument, but if you start spreading it out, then all areas begin to be affected. This is why I hate the Section 8 voucher system. The crimes will be committed regardless, why spread them to other areas? As I'm writing this, I know it is quite insensitive. But at the same time, I think we need to look at this argument with a renewed sense of realisim.

 

This comes up a lot in Lakewood.  While there's something to it, I think the effect of having all the poverty smashed in together is much worse than spreading it out.  If the effects of poverty were more apparent in the outer ring (across America) there might be more of an effort to combat it.  Out of sight, out of mind.

let's keep it on topic...

Wow, I am surprised that this NRP proposal has been equated to Section 8 housing. It is interesting to me that my income level would be within range of the income guideline proposed by NRP. I guess working class people like me are an undesirable element to some people in Ohio City. But I already live in subsidized housing. The $130K renovation to my home is a tax abated improvement. The only reason I could afford this is that my home was paid off years ago. Once again, I must be an undesirable element here.

 

Notes from the 2/11/09 Community Meeting:

 

Summary of the NRP Proposal for W.47th Street

 

• 35 townhomes proposed for 3 sites on W.47th, south of Lorain

• All units to be rentals, with on-site management provided by NRP

• Rental range is estimated to be between $400 to $675 per month

• Income limits estimated to be between $20K to $37 K per year

• Target demographic is small, working class families

• To be a mix of 2BR and 3 BR units, from 1400 to 1700 square feet

• Six units will be handicapped accessible

• Each unit will have a attached garage and brick front façade

• Ornamental iron fencing will surround the well landscaped property

• 1 large playground and 3 small green space play areas proposed

• Units will not be HUD subsidized, but use Housing Trust Funds

• Considering lease/purchase options with home ownership in 15 years

• Targeting groundbreaking in 1 year, with project completion in 2011

 

This sounds like an interesting development.  Are there renderings that can be posted publicly, ohiocitybob?

I do have a preliminary site plan and elevation in a pdf format from NRP. I don't know how to post these files here though. I could post them on our website and include a link to that web page though. I wanted to add that I walked home from the public meeting at Urban Community School Wednesday evening, and I was stunned how run down and unsafe this stretch of Lorain felt (I never walk there at night). It is a real dead zone, and I don't see anyone else clamoring to build something there, unless one finds value in used car lots.

That would be much appreciated!

Thanks for the details.  Based on those figures, I like the idea of this much more than I once did.  Also, I had been confused as to the location proposed.  I had originally thought it was to go in the Jay-Carroll-25th area, but that was a misread of the original post.  I'm not certain W47th is even technically within Ohio City.  Either way, it's a long distance from the existing CMHA concentration on W25th.

 

When I see income limits listed like this, when they're going for "families," I wonder if those limits are contingent on X number of dependents, as in a single person making 37k would not meet the requirement.

I don't know about this project in particular, but for all the other income restricted housing I've seen the income restriction is based on household size, so a single person making 37k might not be eligible, but a family of 4 might.

I was skeptical of this project, until I drove by the proposed site this afternoon. It's not the most appealing area at the moment and it's real shame because Urban Community's new building looks great. I understand that Ohio City residents already take on their fair share of low income housing but this is a pretty run down area in need of some investment.

^I agree- architecturally, this would be a huge step up for that area.  An article by KJP explains in greater detail what properties this would replace: two used car lots and a crappy looking mini-mart.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/westsidesun/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1234388250203100.xml&coll=4

There is a pdf on the following link where you can view the very preliminary site plan and elevation:

 

http://www.ocnw.org/index.cgi?id=130&p=6431

 

I'm not sure why there is so much green space in front of the townhomes on Lorain. When did Lorain Ave ever have front lawns?

I see the convenience store where the druggies and hookers hang out is NOT part of the properties to be acquired, demolished and redeveloped. If that's the case, then this development is a missed opportunity. I'd say the used car dealership is the least of the neighborhood's problems, unless it's one of those being used as fronts for mob activities...cough cough.....

 

http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3933539&_action=validatearticle

 

City Side Dealership Being Investigated For Money Laundering   

02-16-2009 3:29 AM

 

(Cleveland, OH) -- Cleveland Police and the FBI are investigating City Side Wholesale. The West Side car dealership is accused of laundering money for up to 20 drug dealers. Police are calling the probe "Sin City Side." Law enforcement have confiscated 77 vehicles, a yacht and 74-thousand dollars. Along with the dealership, FBI officials searched the homes of Vincent Pisano and his sons, Frank Pisano ad Michael Pisano. All are involved in the dealership. No charges have been filed. Earlier this month Rueban Lloyd, a former City Side salesman, was indicted for money laundering. The investigation continues.

I like convenience stores.  If rough people are hanging around, I'd say you have not enough police, rather than too many stores.  Agreed about the front lawns.

I also wish that the first floor was raised up a bit. It looks cheap when the front door is at the same level as the sidewalk.

A lot of times that is done in these types of homes because of accessibility requirements.  Zero step entries are usually required to get funding.  Sometimes they do them in the garages but a lot of times it's just the front door.

Thanks for posting these, ohiocitybob! 

 

Nice looking W. 47th St. facade.  I agree that in the final design, the Lorain Ave. lawns would be better eliminated, and also hope that the Lorain Ave. facade takes on a more urban appearance, instead of the faux single family thing that is going on on the W. 47th St. side.  This area of Lorain will benefit from the investment for sure.

I'm glad to see questions and comments like these. Attendees at the community meeting appeared more concerned about the target demographic being served. The proposed density was considered by some to be excessive. Not much came up about the proposed design of the townhomes. The density issue had me perplexed, as there was once density in this immediate area that was lost to urban decay (and I-90, going way back). Ohio City once had a population of around 24K, and we are now closer to 10K. We need increased density, but I hope that the design will take some of these posted points into consideration.

The density complaints are absurd.  Cleveland needs more density just about everywhere.  All in all this seems like a great project and hopefully there will be more like it.

SInce the weather is nice this morning, I opened up the windows and saw the progress over at the United Bank bldg. at Lorain and W. 25th Street. They have replaced a lot of the windows on the northern side. Its also exciting that the new ones are so similar to the old ones that I have to use binoculars to differentiate. Also, the gold paint on the uppermost molding is holding up to the weather really well.

I don't know if this was mentioned on here before, but I was talking to one of the owners of Erie Island Coffee and she mentioned that they will be opening up one or two more locations hopefully- and she specifically mentioned Ohio City/west 25th

http://www.cleveland.com/westsidesun/news/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1236263881228150.xml&coll=4

 

Former warehouse back in business

Thursday, March 05, 2009

By Ken Prendergast

[email protected]

West Side Sun News

 

By the end of February, a former Ohio City warehouse of the Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority began to see new life. More life could be on the way as the property's new owner presses ahead with the second phase for the entire block.

 

Already moved into the warehouse portion of the block along Church Avenue between West 25th and West 28th streets is the Arts & Sciences Preparatory Academy run by Mosaica Education of Atlanta.

 

The former warehouse, called the CMHA Administration Annex, houses the charter school and is at the corner of Church and West 28th. The 1960s-era building also once housed Lester Engineering Corp., said developer Rick Foran. He is a partner with Christopher Smythe in West 25th Street Lofts Limited Liability Corp., which is developing the block.

 

........

It looks like the Heyse building, at the corner of W. 28th and Fulton on the south side of Franklin Circle may be getting renovated soon.  The renovation is on the Landmarks Commission's agenda for today.  If I can read the text right, it looks like apartments.  Does anyone know anything else about it?

 

Is there a church on the corner?

Across Fulton, yes.

OK cool, now I can picture it, thank you

A real stunner(!)

I've always loved that building and wanted to do something with it (but no capital or experience always put a damper on my dreams).  Glad to hear it's being worked on.

Wow .. no kidding! Hope it all works out because that one's definitely a keeper.

I am very happy someone is doing something with this building. It is one of the coolest in Ohio City. I always thought it would make a great boutique kind of hotel or something to add a different twist to OC. Although apartments are good too.

Definitely.  OC needs more apartments, preferably 1brs and with heat included.  From the outside, this looks like that kind of building.

Looks like there is a potential new-build on tap for W.25th. I heard that the owner of the Bier Markt is trying to put another restaurant across the street next to the West Side Market. He's going to Landmarks this week. His financing isn't in place yet.

 

 

Nice looking building.  I wonder if the patio will work on that corner, though.  Doesn't a lot of the refuse from the market end up in that alley during it's operation?

wow.  that would be a big improvement for that area... so if I understand this correctly, he is looking to demolish the former "middle east foods" place and build this?

^I was wondering about that. I wonder if he'd try to reuse the foundation and/or the side or back walls. Seems like you could save some money and still produce a nice looking building. That current building is bland at best.

They look to disimilar to me.  It would probably be more trouble than it's worth to attempt to reuse this.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1947+W.+25th+St.+Cleveland,+OH&sll=41.499618,-81.684334&sspn=0.011587,0.019226&ie=UTF8&ll=41.484856,-81.703906&spn=0.01159,0.019226&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A&layer=c&cbll=41.484781,-81.703848&panoid=E3Im2KA7ruYYcFvEtd70Kg&cbp=12,51.20449116881298,,0,5

What an uninteresting building, although I commend McNulty for continued development in the neighborhood.