I am thinking I like this idea. Need to process it a bit more

I don't like the idea. Why are we so afraid of traffic congestion on a city street? Isn't this what happens when a neighborhood becomes successful? Traffic congestion, especially at a low-speed pedestrian environment, is a good thing. It shows the neighborhood is attractive. Sarstedt's and Naynik's critique of West 25th reminds me of the old silly criticism: "No one wants to be there anymore, it's too crowded."

 

So this architect proposes a duplicate setting along a new street just east of the market, but with a big exception -- he junks the pedestrian environment that makes the West 25th setting so popular. He plans shops along Gehring but sends pedestrian walkways over the street like some 1939 GM Futurama plan that American cities sought to implement well into the 1990s. In fact, this sounds like something Ohio City's anti-urbanists led by former Congresswoman Marty Rose Oakar would push. And it would put another busy street between the RTA station and the Market District.

 

Sorry, but the plan jointly sought by Ohio City Inc. and GCRTA is a much more attractive plan. If you haven't seen it, look it up. Too bad Naymik isn't pimping that one.

 

EDIT: here it is.... http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/tod/2013-06-07-W25TOD-CPCPresentation.pdf

Instead of closing/rerouting.

 

maybe re-route a few of the RTA buses.  There is no reason every line has to go across the DS bridge and up W. 25th.  The 35 and the 81 used to go through Tremont.  a few more of those bus lines could use the Lorain Carnagie bridge.  or other routes  Such as franklin to Fulton. 

 

7 bus lines come up 25th st.

 

20-21-22-35-45-79-81

 

The 81 and 35 used to go across L/C and avoid the "problem" area

 

After you do that.  Use street scaping.  Instead of concrete/asphalt use brick pavers or cobblestones.  This naturally causes drivers to slow.  Remove a few (not all) of the metered spaces  for bump outs at the cross walks.

 

get the police over there to write tickets.  Jaywalking, cars blocking intersections, cars parked in bus stops..  All of the stuff that causes traffic issues.  One of the bigger ones I notice is pedestrians ignoring the walk/don't walk signs to walk directly in front of the traffic that has a left turn signal. 

 

They are the same as the bung hole drivers who don't stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk between the market and the bank.  If you ignore the things that are designed for the flow of traffic and how it interacts with the pedestrians you seriously impact traffic flow.

 

 

That and maybe the west side burbanites who are all smart and beating feat out of downtown using 25th...if they were twice as smart as they think they are would turn right on franklin then left on fulton or W 44th and get on 90 at 41 or 44, but thinking 1 step ahead is so difficult you really cant expect 2.

 

This area is a problem sat mornings and afternoon rush hours.  It is at least partially temporary.  Once all the innerbelt bridge construction is over, you wont have so many people looking for "creative" ways to get downtown.

 

You don't make big expensive permanent solutions to temporary problems.

 

All of that being said?  what is his proposal for the biggest most glaring problem of all?  the hill is sliding into the river.

 

If you drive franklin behind the projects/farm you will see the road is literally coming apart as the hill disintegrates.  they already shut down riverbend (below franklin on the hill) because it was so far gone.

 

The price tag on that whole projects is peanuts compared to the unstable hill side he wants to put it on.

We used to have many more buses through that stretch of West 25th. But when we had streetcars, we had fewer of those vehicles because they had (and still have) a higher seating capacity per vehicle. And of course streetcars don't emit diesel exhaust.

 

The unstable hillside is a big problem. Perhaps he hopes to use road funding to shore up the hill (as is being done under the new Inner Belt bridges)? I suspect he doesn't know how unstable that hillside is since there is no mention of it in the article or in the architect's presentation.

 

I hope everyone realizes what is going on here. The PD is being used to stop a Transit Oriented Development plan for Ohio City. The concept published in today's PD is championed by the neighborhood's "Old Guard" led by former Congresswoman Mary Rose Oakar who posed this an alternative to a Transit Oriented Development by a private developer, OCI, GCRTA and the city. The Old Guard is still trying to suburbanize the city with more and faster car traffic, commercial district bypasses, pedestrian overpasses and other discarded experiments from an era when we forgot how design cities. Rather, let's recognize that cities thrive on pedestrianism, bikes, transit, mixed use, density and fewer/slower cars. We nearly killed Cleveland after World War II trying to implement General Motors' Futurama through its local emissary Albert Porter. Instead, support the Transit Oriented Development. Make a choice, Cleveland!

It seems to work for (and in no way am i directly comparing this to) Times Square

It seems to work for (and in no way am i directly comparing this to) Times Square

 

What pedestrian overpasses does Times Square have? And what new roadway are they routing in between Times Square and its nearest rail transit station?

This is a terrible plan, and gives local architects a bad rap, but I think we can all agree that this has zero chance of implementation.

Mark Naymik once again tosses another grenade on a good thing in Cleveland.  (is this man strictly a provocateur or does he ever offer anything productive? – his rant about Chief Wahoo is the only post of his I agree with, but …)  … As the saying goes, “If it ain’t broke…”  Ohio City is one of the finest urban walkable, transit-friendly areas in NEO—and more and more, it’s being cited and watched nationally.  Why would you want to mess this up by removing auto/bus traffic, building a new roadway, a large parking garage over the Rapid, all the other silly stuff this plan offers?  (Ron Sarstedt, and Naymik, need to occupy themselves with more constructive ideas, really…).  The existing traffic calming aspects of timed traffic lights and designated crosswalks, combined with heavy foot traffic, restaurants/retail/residences, outstanding transit access with the nearby Red Line station and nearly 10 RTA bus routes circulating the area, is exactly the ingredients a modern urban neighborhood strives for.  The slow moving auto, bus and other traffic mixed with human (and even 4-legged) foot traffic makes the Market Sq. area the urban delight that it is.

 

The mixed-use TOD apartment-over-retail plan adjacent to a redesigned W. 25th-Ohio City Rapid station is the type of positive development Ohio City should be engaging in and points in the direction the neighborhood should be moving in.  The out-of-left-field Sarstedt plan needs to be relegated to its proper place … the trash can.     

 

^ Amen! Ohio city is doing just fine on its own. Maybe some traffic calming measures could be implemented north of Kay ave and the street narrowed, but other than that,OC is perfect!! Maybe the architect should focus his attention towards the northern end of 25th. With all of the impending delevopment coming up...

^ Whats the impending development on the North End.  I hope it has something to do with that SE corner parcel.  Man, I'm sick of looking at that one building next to the old CMHA property.

 

 

^ Whats the impending development on the North End.  I hope it has something to do with that SE corner parcel.  Man, I'm sick of looking at that one building next to the old CMHA property.

 

 

First, you have Mariner's Watch under construction. Next, keep an eye on some of the under-utilized parcels and parking lots on West 25th north of Franklin and on Detroit west of West 28th -- including the current site of Max Hayes. The new rule of thumb for any major city's urban core in America today -- if a property is under-utilized, it probably won't be for long.

 

The new rule of thumb for any major city's urban core in America today -- if a property is under-utilized, it probably won't be for long.

 

Unless it is in the heart of downtown Cleveland...

 

 

 

The new rule of thumb for any major city's urban core in America today -- if a property is under-utilized, it probably won't be for long.

 

Unless it is in the heart of downtown Cleveland...

 

 

First things first, as I note here.....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3198.msg680973.html#msg680973

^ Whats the impending development on the North End.  I hope it has something to do with that SE corner parcel.  Man, I'm sick of looking at that one building next to the old CMHA property.

 

 

First, you have Mariner's Watch under construction. Next, keep an eye on some of the under-utilized parcels and parking lots on West 25th north of Franklin and on Detroit west of West 28th -- including the current site of Max Hayes. The new rule of thumb for any major city's urban core in America today -- if a property is under-utilized, it probably won't be for long.

Wasn't the CMSD planning on keeping Max Hayes open, and delaying construction on a replacement school elsewhere? At least, that was what I had heard ~9 mos. ago

^Yeah, I keep driving by there wondering when the CMSD is going to sell that parcel.  I imagine it's worth a good bit about now.

I believe that replacement school is already Under Constructon on 65th street.

I believe that replacement school is already Under Constructon on 65th street.

 

Correct. Groundbreaking was three and a half months ago:

 

http://clevelandmetroschools.org/site/Default.aspx?PageID=2&PageType=17&DomainID=4&ModuleInstanceID=1&EventDateID=909

Thanks guys for filling in the blanks.

 

Any scuttlebutt about the current site?

Several more infill houses planned........

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

 

November 18, 2013

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2013/crr11-18-2013.pdf

 

4305 John Avenue

 

1881 West 44th Street

 

1887 West 44th Street

That is just the BZA for these:

 

More infill housing........

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/10242013/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

AGENDA - October 24, 2013

 

 

Ohio City Historic District

West 44th Street and John Avenue

New construction of 3 houses

 

 

 

How soon I forget!

Keep an eye on this site...... I was researching parcels in hot areas of Ohio City and discovered the modern building at 3219 Detroit Avenue sold less than a month ago for $275,000 to a paper company listing only to a Mayfield Heights attorney (Robert A. Ranallo) whose clients are in the real estate development and construction business. This building is very close to the Mariner's Watch apartments now under construction.

^Isn't that Club Cleveland, some sort of gay night club or spa or bath or something (I know I sound like I am from the suburbs of Topeka, Kansas but really not up on these things).  Is it possible it is not doing well?

^Isn't that Club Cleveland, some sort of gay night club or spa or bath or something (I know I sound like I am from the suburbs of Topeka, Kansas but really not up on these things).  Is it possible it is not doing well?

 

It's been closed for years now.

I have heard rumors someone wants to tear down the old Club Cleveland building and make townhouses.

 

I have heard rumors someone wants to tear down the old Club Cleveland building and make townhouses.

I like this idea. Where did you hear these rumors?

Keep an eye on this site...... I was researching parcels in hot areas of Ohio City and discovered the modern building at 3219 Detroit Avenue sold less than a month ago for $275,000 to a paper company listing only to a Mayfield Heights attorney (Robert A. Ranallo) whose clients are in the real estate development and construction business. This building is very close to the Mariner's Watch apartments now under construction.

 

I have heard rumors someone wants to tear down the old Club Cleveland building and make townhouses.

 

Well given what KJP reports concerning the recent sale this might be an accurate rumor.

Where is the CLub Cleveland Building?

^west 32nd and Detroit

I have heard rumors someone wants to tear down the old Club Cleveland building and make townhouses.

 

Oh please let this be true...this tacky window-challenged building is my nemesis.

By the way, how is Mariner's Watch coming along?  Haven't been that way for several weeks.

By the way, how is Mariner's Watch coming along?  Haven't been that way for several weeks.

 

They're plugging away on the foundations, etc. But I don't yet see anything vertical coming up out of that site yet.

Ran past the Hansa Brewery today and the exterior structure appears to be pretty close to being completed.  Windows and doors are installed; looks like the only major thing left is to install the siding or brick veneer or whatever they're finishing the exterior walls with.  Even without any landscaping done, this corner already looks significantly better.

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/11142013/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

CITY HALL - ROOM 514 - 9:00 AM

AGENDA - November 14, 2013

 

 

Lorain Avenue Historic District

2905 Lorain Avenue

Renovation

 

BEFORE

 

AFTER

Well, it certainly looks better in those renderings than it does at present, and it's not the worst use in the world.  I just worry that having too large of an institutional presence along Lorain will kill any incentive for pedestrians to stroll west from the Market.

Well, it certainly looks better in those renderings than it does at present, and it's not the worst use in the world.  I just worry that having too large of an institutional presence along Lorain will kill any incentive for pedestrians to stroll west from the Market.

 

I do think the design is pretty awful and i actually prefer the gritty look of the status quo. That said, I believe that Ignatius has already purchased this building and I had assumed they'd demo it for parking. With this new use, it will add some foot traffic, but not a whole lot. This stretch of Lorain is institutional and one storefront is not going to change the feeling of 28th-32nd, although Ignatius does put thousands of feet on the ground at various times of the week.

This stretch of Lorain is institutional and one storefront is not going to change the feeling of 28th-32nd, although Ignatius does put thousands of feet on the ground at various times of the week.

 

I would actually say this stretch of Lorain is more of a parking district or vacant than institutional, at least on the south side of the street, and changing that will be building by building.  So no, one storefront won't change it, but it's a start.  I guess it really is a lost cause, though, since Ignatius controls most of the land in that immediate area (mostly for parking), and I highly doubt they're interested in giving any of it over to development. 

West 25th Street near the West Side Market should remain open to traffic, says Ohio City leader: Mark Naymik

 

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2013/11/west_25th_street_near_the_west.html#incart_special-report

Obviously, I think Eric Wobser has the more levelheaded approach here.... From Namik's tone, I don't look for the proponents of Sarstedt's plan to roll over on this.

Obviously, I think Eric Wobser has the more levelheaded approach here.... From Namik's tone, I don't look for the proponents of Sarstedt's plan to roll over on this.

 

They should, because most of Ohio City's residents will outlive the proponents of Sarstedt's plan and have to put up with the anti-urban concepts of that plan long after its proponents are dead and gone.

Cleveland Planning Commission rejects controversial plan for McDonald's in Ohio City neighborhood

By Leila Atassi

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Planning Commission on Friday rejected a controversial plan to build a McDonald’s restaurant on the cusp of a residential area of the Ohio City neighborhood.

 

Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2013/11/cleveland_planning_commission.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

Excellet! While I don't care if McDonald'd comes into Ohio City or not, I do care if they come to that pedestrian-active street corner. McD's isn't like many other restaurants. Some 70% of a McDonald's business is at the drive through. So a McD's attracts more car traffic than sit-down restaurants -- especially in Ohio City where many people arrive by means other than a car.

^this is just another step in this entire saga. Don't be surprised, as the article mentions, if McDs wins out in the end.

 

^?

I remember reading that Grind was becoming bar145 out of Toledo.

 

 

Yeah the Envy bldg went down in a couple hours. It was there when I drove by early morning and by mid to late morning, it looked like this

 

 

 

Is this one next?

 

 

>Is this one next?

 

Yep, just drove by, it's gone now.

 

 

The buildings on Lorain are completely gone already.  Looks like this project is on a fast track

 

http://www.welcometoabode.com/ohio-city/

 

^Obviously, the Duck Island project is (happily) on a fast track... Where are we at with the Market Square mixed use proposal?  I realize that Market Sq. is a more complicated project in that it involves street closures (Gehring) and street narrowing (Lorain) as well as the Rapid Station alteration… Last I heard, no developer has been selected, but hope this project keeps its momentum.

I love when a developer touts its project's accessibility to rail transit!

I posted a question here but now have the answers.

 

I like the new street signs in Ohio City which say "historic district" and, for the numbered streets, give the pre-1907 street names.  Also they went back to adding the red-and-white gingerbread-inspired fan decorations.  I hope eventually all the street signs have these.  Right now only the corners along the more main streets seem to have the old names, if any.  I always wish all the wires were buried and distinctive, historic streetlights could be installed like in so many cities, but I know that's an impossible dream.  The best we can expect, it seems, are the ones around Market Square - and even those are interspersed with the modern light poles.

 

Why is it impossible