Didn't the vendors fight the city's attempts to impose a 2 hour limit on free parking? And then they turn around and complain that people are parking in the lot for the restaurants and bars all day?

 

There should be more urgency to short-term reconfigure the lot for more spaces and long-term start construction on a garage. On market Saturdays, I usually park at St. Ignatius without issue (except when they have a special event) and walk five minutes to the market. But I also realize that many people in Cleveland consider any walk further than a few hundred feet "far."

^^I agree.  His statement doesn't seem logical. 

 

There is a parking issue and something needs to be done to improve the situation, but I can't imagine the bars being to blame for the filling of the lots during the day.

Business hours for WSM. MONDAY & WEDNESDAY: 7am - 4pm FRIDAY & SATURDAY: 7am - 6pm.

 

Something's not right. The OC bars are usually pretty dead during these times.

 

It's cumulative. A bunch of mostly empty bars still adds up to a lot of people, especially compared to when most of them weren't even there.

 

Besides, some of them do decent lunch business during the week, and are packed on the weekends. Stop by Townhall for lunch this Saturday for example. A bunch of places are packed all day Saturday during college football season since games start at noon.

Vendors report business is down by some 50 percent this holiday season due a parking shortage they claim has been caused by a growing number of bar patrons who are snapping up spots.

 

Business hours for WSM. MONDAY & WEDNESDAY: 7am - 4pm FRIDAY & SATURDAY: 7am - 6pm.

 

Something's not right. The OC bars are usually pretty dead during these times.

 

Lunchtime?  I would bet that is the market's busiest time on weekdays.

^^Good point.  Mitchell's Ice Cream is another new business bringing in people during hours that are typically not busy on 25th. 

I was at the market Mon, and it was an absolute madhouse trying to get in and find parking.  I don't know if they are right in saying it's the bars, but surely even if their business really is down 50% someone is still filling that lot, and nearly everything around it.

Good problem.  One that can be solved with a 5 story parking ramp topped with apartments and condos. 

a problem that the vendors could have nipped in the bud months ago, but nooooooo

Hard-headed Vince B does the market no service with his selfish/non-customer-facing take on so many market-related issues. He needs to wake up to '14 (that's 2014, not 1914)... Not his grandfather's market anymore.

 

 

 

Good problem.  One that can be solved with a 5 story parking ramp topped with apartments and condos. 

 

Exactly. I'll gladly take this problem over the pre-1990 alternative.

"I was at the market Mon, and it was an absolute madhouse trying to get in and find parking."

 

The Monday and Saturday before Christmas, it's *going* to be a madhouse with people picking up the big dinner items. Also, there's a presumption that everyone who parks at the Market and goes in the Market is a paying customer. Plenty of people stop in for nostalgia's sake but never buy anything, especially this time of year when people are in from out of town. I'm a regular at the Market but you won't see me there after 10am on *any* day because I know how the crowds get.

 

I understand the vendors' frustrations but as others have said - the city proposed a possible compromise and got all kinds of flak from the vendors. Well - the folks at the city are far from perfect but at least they made an effort to find a solution.

I was talking to my bro about this issue and really think it can be handled without a single new parking spot. As folks have mentioned here, impose a 2 hour limit. Additionally, make it a pay lot and allow West Side Market to have their tickets validated by grocers when they make a purchase. That way, Market shoppers get free parking and the bar/RTA parking folk pay. Use some of the parking funds and the aid of area businesses to create a trolley between Tremont, OC, and GSAD and/or OC and Downtown. That removes the cars of West Sider's that drive a mile or so from their places on the near-West side, improves connections between the City, and decreases parking needs in the Market District. It also allows an East Sider the ability to park in Tremont or GSAD, and take the trolley from their car to a bar in OC, further reducing the need for parking in that one little area. This city has too much parking, there should never be a "parking problem." Anywhere (except maybe Downtown in 2016 :)).

Why pay for a trolley to downtown when Ohio City Inc. and GCRTA are promoting the fact that there are already 100 buses and 80 trains a day between Ohio City and downtown?? And why shouldn't transit riders also get their transit tickets/passes validated too? Why would we want to subsidize the mode that make urban neighborhoods less livable and penalize a mode that makes it more livable?

 

Answer: Build a deck financed by parking revenues from the deck and free up spaces in that ugly surface lot for more housing and commercial spaces fronting Lorain. What would the vendors rather have -- tourists walking around the market taking pictures or more residents buying stuff?

Why pay for a trolley to downtown when Ohio City Inc. and GCRTA are promoting the fact that there are already 100 buses and 80 trains a day between Ohio City and downtown?? And why shouldn't transit riders also get their transit tickets/passes validated too? Why would we want to subsidize the mode that make urban neighborhoods less livable and penalize a mode that makes it more livable?

 

Answer: Build a deck financed by parking revenues from the deck and free up spaces in that ugly surface lot for more housing and commercial spaces fronting Lorain. What would the vendors rather have -- tourists walking around the market taking pictures or more residents buying stuff?

 

At the risk of taking this off topic: I think a trolley is a good idea. Yes, there are many buses that go across to OHC, but unless you have a weekly or monthly fare card, it's hard to justify paying $2.25 for a one way trip from downtown just across the river. I live in the WHD, and every time we go to OHC, everyone insists on taking an Uber as opposed to the 26, 20, 22, etc, etc. Same goes for the Rapid. It could also connect to Tremont which is virtually impossible to easily access via RTA. I think of Baltimore whose Charm City Circulator goes all the way out to Fells Point, down to Federal Hill, and up to Mt. Vernon, all with no fare. I think it would be advantageous to do the same in Cleveland.

I think a 2-hour time limit in the WSM parking lot is a way to go.  Also, I think the City needs to section-off WSM parking from the clubs/restaurants.  I realize parking, as it is, is scarce during rush periods (ie Saturdays), but it can be done.  And, yes, the spots should be metered (if RTA riders, with their multiple routes to Ohio City, have to pay, why should the financially-struggling City continue to subsidize well-heeled drivers with free parking!?)  ...

 

Look, they're using meters in all of the lots in the University Circle/Uptown area, which is newer, much less established than OC and, still, not completely finished -- well, it almost is with Corner Alley now being opened.  However, UC/Uptown shares excellent rail (Red Line) and 24/hour bus connectivity with downtown and other areas nearby.  Last I looked UC/Uptown caters to no public institutions like the WSM and yet UCI makes drivers ante up... So why shouldn't the City do so viz the WSM in its parking lot(s)?

 

A parking crunch is a GOOD problem to have.  Obviously Cleveland has been salivating for decades to reproduce such popular neighborhoods, like OC (and UC as well), where people (locals and tourists) are scrambling to get to, and fighting to park... That's the price of popularity.  I just hope some of the people involved, including some of the WSM vendors, would calm down the fatalistic rhetoric.  That's not going to help anybody.

 

At the risk of taking this off topic: I think a trolley is a good idea. Yes, there are many buses that go across to OHC, but unless you have a weekly or monthly fare card, it's hard to justify paying $2.25 for a one way trip from downtown just across the river. I live in the WHD, and every time we go to OHC, everyone insists on taking an Uber as opposed to the 26, 20, 22, etc, etc. Same goes for the Rapid. It could also connect to Tremont which is virtually impossible to easily access via RTA. I think of Baltimore whose Charm City Circulator goes all the way out to Fells Point, down to Federal Hill, and up to Mt. Vernon, all with no fare. I think it would be advantageous to do the same in Cleveland.

 

Until (and if) Baltimore builds its LRT Red Line subway through downtown, Little Italy and Fells Point, Cleveland's downtown and close in hot spots are considerably better connected than B-More's -- hot areas like Fells Point and Federal Hill have no rail service at all, with the latter not scheduled to get any anytime soon... I do think some kind of reestablishment of a community circulator and/or trolley service connecting OC and Tremont could be useful, as the oft-infrequent #81 bus, alone, is not a viable alternative for such a popular neighborhood.  (RTA might be wise to divert some of those W. 25-southbound buses over to Tremont then reconnecting with W. 25 southbound at, say, Clark Ave). 

 

... but the trolley should NOT go all the way downtown; only between Ohio City/Market Square and Tremont, only.  I'm tired of RTA constantly duplicating viable rail service with buses (ie Trolleys to the Rock Hall when the WFL is right there)... Ohio City is a major transit hub in itself.

 

 

 

At the risk of taking this off topic: I think a trolley is a good idea. Yes, there are many buses that go across to OHC, but unless you have a weekly or monthly fare card, it's hard to justify paying $2.25 for a one way trip from downtown just across the river. I live in the WHD, and every time we go to OHC, everyone insists on taking an Uber as opposed to the 26, 20, 22, etc, etc. Same goes for the Rapid. It could also connect to Tremont which is virtually impossible to easily access via RTA. I think of Baltimore whose Charm City Circulator goes all the way out to Fells Point, down to Federal Hill, and up to Mt. Vernon, all with no fare. I think it would be advantageous to do the same in Cleveland.

 

Until (and if) Baltimore builds its LRT Red Line subway through downtown, Little Italy and Fells Point, Cleveland's downtown and close in hot spots are considerably better connected than B-More's -- hot areas like Fells Point and Federal Hill have no rail service at all, with the latter not scheduled to get any anytime soon... I do think some kind of reestablishment of a community circulator and/or trolley service connecting OC and Tremont could be useful, as the oft-infrequent #81 bus, alone, is not a viable alternative for such a popular neighborhood.  (RTA might be wise to divert some of those W. 25-southbound buses over to Tremont then reconnecting with W. 25 southbound at, say, Clark Ave). 

 

... but the trolley should NOT go all the way downtown; only between Ohio City/Market Square and Tremont, only.  I'm tired of RTA constantly duplicating viable rail service with buses (ie Trolleys to the Rock Hall when the WFL is right there)... Ohio City is a major transit hub in itself.

 

 

 

 

I get the concerns about that, but getting from downtown to Ohio City via transit is still far from intuitive and not very convenient for the casual transit rider.

 

At the risk of taking this off topic: I think a trolley is a good idea. Yes, there are many buses that go across to OHC, but unless you have a weekly or monthly fare card, it's hard to justify paying $2.25 for a one way trip from downtown just across the river. I live in the WHD, and every time we go to OHC, everyone insists on taking an Uber as opposed to the 26, 20, 22, etc, etc. Same goes for the Rapid. It could also connect to Tremont which is virtually impossible to easily access via RTA. I think of Baltimore whose Charm City Circulator goes all the way out to Fells Point, down to Federal Hill, and up to Mt. Vernon, all with no fare. I think it would be advantageous to do the same in Cleveland.

 

Until (and if) Baltimore builds its LRT Red Line subway through downtown, Little Italy and Fells Point, Cleveland's downtown and close in hot spots are considerably better connected than B-More's -- hot areas like Fells Point and Federal Hill have no rail service at all, with the latter not scheduled to get any anytime soon... I do think some kind of reestablishment of a community circulator and/or trolley service connecting OC and Tremont could be useful, as the oft-infrequent #81 bus, alone, is not a viable alternative for such a popular neighborhood.  (RTA might be wise to divert some of those W. 25-southbound buses over to Tremont then reconnecting with W. 25 southbound at, say, Clark Ave). 

 

... but the trolley should NOT go all the way downtown; only between Ohio City/Market Square and Tremont, only.  I'm tired of RTA constantly duplicating viable rail service with buses (ie Trolleys to the Rock Hall when the WFL is right there)... Ohio City is a major transit hub in itself.

 

 

 

 

I get the concerns about that, but getting from downtown to Ohio City via transit is still far from intuitive and not very convenient for the casual transit rider.

 

Thus the idea for a west w25th St streetcar.

 

Clevelandstreetcar.org

 

I get the concerns about that, but getting from downtown to Ohio City via transit is still far from intuitive and not very convenient for the casual transit rider.

 

It's very intuitive... I don't see how can't be with 100 buses (some 24-hour) and 80 trains going through/near OC's core retail district .  The Rapid station, a block away, is highly visible and is even marked on colorful Ohio City maps at major intersections... I think you meant that it is confusing to drivers, not transit users, casual or otherwise, because RTA service to OC is a snap.  I don't care about drivers, because these folks will drive no matter what and will up excuses not to take transit.

I get the concerns about that, but getting from downtown to Ohio City via transit is still far from intuitive and not very convenient for the casual transit rider.

 

It's very intuitive... I don't see how can't be with 100 buses (some 24-hour) and 80 trains going through/near OC's core retail district .  The Rapid station, a block away, is highly visible and is even marked on colorful Ohio City maps at major intersections... I think you meant that it is confusing to drivers, not transit users, casual or otherwise, because RTA service to OC is a snap.  I don't care about drivers, because these folks will drive no matter what and will up excuses not to take transit.

 

Don't be so gruff.

 

It is confusing because the frequency is inconsistent and the wait can be as long as 20 minutes off peak.  Plus the stops for Ohio city buses are all over down town not consistent. This intimidating to visitors who are not familiar with the 7 different routes going to Ohio City.

I get the concerns about that, but getting from downtown to Ohio City via transit is still far from intuitive and not very convenient for the casual transit rider.

 

It's very intuitive... I don't see how can't be with 100 buses (some 24-hour) and 80 trains going through/near OC's core retail district .  The Rapid station, a block away, is highly visible and is even marked on colorful Ohio City maps at major intersections... I think you meant that it is confusing to drivers, not transit users, casual or otherwise, because RTA service to OC is a snap.  I don't care about drivers, because these folks will drive no matter what and will up excuses not to take transit.

 

Don't be so gruff.

 

It is confusing because the frequency is inconsistent and the wait can be as long as 20 minutes off peak.  Plus the stops for Ohio city buses are all over down town not consistent. This intimidating to visitors who are not familiar with the 7 different routes going to Ohio City.

 

Mind your own biz and don't attempt lecture me, Biker... Of course, frequency is not 20 minutes off peak, it's 15 minutes and only 30 minutes at night... and you know that.

^I hate to say it, but while the OC buses are easy to use for us transit-oriented folk, my "non-transity" friends are too confused to even attempt using them. As biker said, they don't know which buses go to OC, when they leave, or where to pick them up. While you or me would say..."go to riderta.com and look it up," that is too much work for them. They would rather go back to their apartment, pick up their car, and drive across the river. It's possibly idiocy, but many don't like the idea of buses, and when they see the 55, they don't know what separates it from the 15, 32, or 7. To them, they're all the same.

 

A trolley or similar mechanism of differentiating this route from "generic" buses would help set the downtown/OC connection apart to the younger and older crowds moving downtown, as well as the tourist and leisure-suburbanite. It may be dumb, but I think it's true. Also, McNulty, the Conways, and the other folk on that street should be racing to install a trolley--increase pedestrian traffic (from the aforementioned transit-allegic folk), decrease vehicular traffic, decrease possibility of DUIs, and increase bar-hopping from convention-goers and other downtown tourists. Call it the Brew Line  :-)

Google Maps can get any lazy idiot on the bus. Myself included.

^I hate to say it, but while the OC buses are easy to use for us transit-oriented folk, my "non-transity" friends are too confused to even attempt using them. As biker said, they don't know which buses go to OC, when they leave, or where to pick them up. While you or me would say..."go to riderta.com and look it up," that is too much work for them. They would rather go back to their apartment, pick up their car, and drive across the river. It's possibly idiocy, but many don't like the idea of buses, and when they see the 55, they don't know what separates it from the 15, 32, or 7. To them, they're all the same.

 

A trolley or similar mechanism of differentiating this route from "generic" buses would help set the downtown/OC connection apart to the younger and older crowds moving downtown, as well as the tourist and leisure-suburbanite. It may be dumb, but I think it's true. Also, McNulty, the Conways, and the other folk on that street should be racing to install a trolley--increase pedestrian traffic (from the aforementioned transit-allegic folk), decrease vehicular traffic, decrease possibility of DUIs, and increase bar-hopping from convention-goers and other downtown tourists. Call it the Brew Line  :-)

 

Whether or not we like to admit it, this is exactly right. Not to mention having to pay a $2.25 fare, since said people also are unlikely to have RTA farecards. I've suggested taking the Rapid/bus to OHC from downtown many times, and quite often someone in the group offers to pay for an Uber themselves to avoid doing that.

To RTA's credit, they've tried to make the Downtown-Ohio City bus connection less intimidating for casual riders through the "Ohio City Connector" branding effort (http://www.riderta.com/ohiocityconnector). I believe RTA has clearly labeled the bus shelter on Superior across from the Renaissance Hotel with the specific bus routes that head to Market Square (all of which stop there) and vice versa for a shelter on West 25th.  If there isn't one already, a clear bus countdown clock would also help.

 

Loretto's right that taking the bus is pretty easy for anyone who isn't a total mental slug, but I don't doubt Clevecane and TPH2 are right, too, and many potential customers are totally uninterested or intimidated by the uncertainty over how to pay ("do I need exact change?!").  Maybe 5 trip fare cards would have been good stocking stuffers for some downtown residents to at least simplify this last part :)

To RTA's credit, they've tried to make the Downtown-Ohio City bus connection less intimidating for casual riders through the "Ohio City Connector" branding effort (http://www.riderta.com/ohiocityconnector). I believe RTA has clearly labeled the bus shelter on Superior across from the Renaissance Hotel with the specific bus routes that head to Market Square (all of which stop there) and vice versa for a shelter on West 25th.  If there isn't one already, a clear bus countdown clock would also help.

 

Loretto's right that taking the bus is pretty easy for anyone who isn't a total mental slug, but I don't doubt Clevecane and TPH2 are right, too, and many potential customers are totally uninterested or intimidated by the uncertainty over how to pay ("do I need exact change?!").  Maybe 5 trip fare cards would have been good stocking stuffers for some downtown residents to at least simplify this last part :)

 

This route to me would make an obvious finalist for the proposed cable car system.  Downtown to Ohio City over the river with a great view of downtown and the flats bridges.  Perhaps design this into Phase II of the casino, should that ever happen. 

Long-planned but FINALLY moving into the city-approvals process (background: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/11/developers_inch_forward_with_l.html).....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2015/crr01-12-2015.pdf

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

January 12, 2015

 

Calendar No. 14-253: 1526 West 25 Street

 

West 25th Street Lofts, LLC., owner, proposes to establish use as 83 dwelling units in three buildings

in a D2 and D3 Local Retail Business District. The owner appeals for relief from the following

sections of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances:

1. Section 357.08(b)(2) which states that a rear yard equal to 20 feet or one half the height of

the main building is required and no rear yard is proposed.

2. Section 355.04 which states that in a “D” Area District the maximum gross floor area cannot

exceed the lot area. 254,898 gross floor area is proposed for a 110,010 square foot lot.

Progress.......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2015/crr01-26-2015.pdf

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

JANUARY 26, 2015

9:30

Calendar No. 14-248: 3219 Detroit Avenue Ward 3

Joe Cimperman

17 Notices

3219 Detroit LLC, owner, proposes to erect a new 60 unit apartment building in a B1 and D2 Local

Retail Business District and a Pedestrian Overlay District. The owner appeals for relief from the

following sections of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances:

1. Section 325.03 which states that the minimum area required for an off-street parking space is

180 square feet.

2. Section 343.23(g)(1) which states that no building shall be setback more than 5 feet in a

Pedestrian Retail Overlay District.

3. Section 355.04 which states that in a ‘B’ Area District the maximum floor area shall not exceed

½ the total lot area; in this case 15,437 square feet. In a ‘D’ Area District the maximum floor

area shall not exceed the total lot area; in this case 30,875 square feet. The proposed total

floor area is 77,525 square feet.

4. Section 357.05 which states that a five foot side yard is required.

5. Section 357.08(b)(2) which states that the rear yard shall not be less than 20 feet nor less

than ½ the height of the main building. (Filed December 11, 2014)

 

Here's a rendering that shows the front of West 25th Street Lofts project in #CLE's Ohio City. At @CLEcityplanning. http://t.co/OBDkX2VGVr

Demolition for expanded parking.....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/01222015/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

AGENDA - January 22, 2015

 

CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS

 

1. Ohio City Historic District: Case 15-008

Gibbons Center 3215 Carroll Avenue

Demolition and parking lot expansion

Ward 3 Cimperman

 

2. Ohio City Historic District: Case 15-009

2900 Carroll Avenue

Demolition

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ What exactly is house "removal?" Does that just mean demolition?

^Had to laugh at that description of Phase 2...."Begin thinking about redevelopment of back quad".

Ugh.

At least this is happening:

West 25th Street Picks Up Fiber Network Funding from OneCommunity Grant

 

One Community, the locally owned ultra-high speed broadband provider bringing super-duper-fast Internet to the Euclid Corridor, announced yesterday that the West 25th Street Corridor will pick up some fine grant funding benefits.

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2015/01/20/west-25th-street-picks-up-benefits-from-onecommunity-grant

Has anyone been in this small grocer?

 

http://freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/thegroceryohc012015.aspx

^ i have.  I enjoy it and its almost like a farmers market wrapped into one small store. Alot of local products.  I think the Ohio City folks willl support it, i initially thought it would be bigger.  The owner is very nice

^^ I haven't gone in yet, but I've heard good things so far. It's great to see someone making use of that long-vacant storefront. I do hope it gets a proper sign eventually, though.

joecimperman ‏@joecimperman  35s35 seconds ago

.@ohiocitytweets ohhhhhh yeaaaaaa!!!! Newhousing 3219Detroit - TyVintage Devt! Welcome 60 new #cityzens #cle !

 

Going to Landmark's commission

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/02122015/index.php

 

It looks like some square footage was taken from the external walls of the building and added to the courtyard.  I'm sure this was the response to the disgruntled neighbor.

 

Most interesting - look at the two strips of "future town homes"

 

Even more "future town homes" on the surface lot of 32nd and Franklin.

Another victory for angry neighbors everywhere!

I like it. I know a lot (or maybe just a loud minority) of residents on Clinton were very opposed to this project, but I don't see why. Clinton is already mix of single family homes, multi-family homes, and even some small apartment buildings. This building is not very imposing, either. It's set back from the street, and is only a little bit taller than the surrounding homes/townhouses. And the design isn't bad (I like it better than Mariner's Watch).

I think it looks great.  Chip Marous in the foreground of the photo.  Interesting that Marous/Vintage has started their development in Battery Park with City Architecture, then moved on to Dimit and is now working with LDA on this latest development

I heard a rumor in the neighborhood that one of the medical institutions in town has designs to replace either the May Dugan Center, McCafferty Health Center, or both.  Has anyone else heard about this?

^I've heard something similar but I can't confirm anything

Ohio City apartment project - on Clinton Ave. - wins #CLE Landmarks Commission OK. Headed to BZA, block club: http://t.co/2ciS1lBVD5 #CRE

What's there now where the proposed townhouses would be built ( Franklin and West 32nd Street, east of proposed new apartment house on Clinton)?  There's a blizzard outside right now and I don't know when I'll get back to that neighborhood (nor do I know the street numbers to look up on Google Maps).

What's there now where the proposed townhouses would be built ( Franklin and West 32nd Street, east of proposed new apartment house on Clinton)?  There's a blizzard outside right now and I don't know when I'll get back to that neighborhood (nor do I know the street numbers to look up on Google Maps).

 

At Vine Ct. and 32nd there are just empty lots.

 

At Franklin and 32nd there's a mostly disused parking lot -- used to be one of the lots for the West Side YMCA and, prior to that, the Franklin Boulevard Methodist Church (1870-1947):

 

 

 

 

A petition has been started to try to prevent Saint Ignatius from tearing down more houses in Ohio City for surface parking.  Part of the aim is to provide the Landmarks Commission with community support for denying demolition permits. 

 

http://chn.ge/1vQPLl4?recruiter=1514097

Question -- is any of this updated information?

 

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16428117/1526-W-25th-Street-Cleveland-OH/

Question -- is any of this updated information?

 

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16428117/1526-W-25th-Street-Cleveland-OH/

 

No. The school is no longer there and that's what has created the delay as it changed the financing. But I hear they'll be starting construction by April.

^ They have most of the financing in place, but need some bridge financing to cover the gap between construction and when the tax credits come in. Where the charter school was located is now going to be more residential. Total project is 83 residential, with a parking garage in the middle, and some surface lots, and retail / commercial space fronting W. 25th. They still hope to start in April