ok, what is cisco?

i call it "liquid crack".  its some strong ass drink that people (primarily in the south) drink.  I think its moonshine.

 

ok then. MD (Mad dog) 2o/20 and boones farm are horrible cheap wines, and I think the MD is stronger than the average wine . not sure about thunderbird. I somehow, despite being a child of the 80's and sadly an underage imbiber of alcohol, managed skip the cheap stuff -except one summer of Milwakee's Best (yes that is the name) . Best indeed.

I too am I child of the 80s, and also drank the cheap stuff -- Stroh's 15-packs that sold for $2.99 (I remember Milwaukee's Best also came in 15-packs), not to mention Little Kings, Blatz and, when really desperate, Beer (remember the all-white generic cans that said "Beer" and "Light Beer"?). But I digress....

I heard tonight that the liquor store on W.25 is dead in the water. They may be working on it, but they are not going to get the permit. 

I heard tonight that the liquor store on W.25 is dead in the water. They may be working on it, but they are not going to get the permit. 

that is good news! will they be able to sell beer and wine? I hope not. I may have missed this in the thread, but does this guy own the building or is/was he leasing? I am guessing he will "sell" the place to a relative w/o a criminal record, and they will get the permit. maybe that is why they are still working away as if nothing has happened? I agree as someone said, it irks me that these suburban trolls comes in to sully our community and fuel the addictions of some vunerable people who don't need any more  things to waste their money on . thanks for keeping us posted..

^A permit will not be issued for that location. 

^sweet. now I hope I can put my paranoid little mind to rest..

Out of curiosity, are there any state licensed liquor stores in the Ohio City area (in the general vicinity of the WSM)?  I wholeheartedly agree that this one seemed to be veering down an undesirable path, especially given the prominent location it was to occupy.  Glad to hear its not moving forward hopefully giving way to something exponentially better.

"despite being a child of the 80's and sadly an underage imbiber of alcohol, managed to skip the cheap stuff "

 

I *knew* I liked you! ;-)

Out of curiosity, are there any state licensed liquor stores in the Ohio City area (in the general vicinity of the WSM)?  I wholeheartedly agree that this one seemed to be veering down an undesirable path, especially given the prominent location it was to occupy.  Glad to hear its not moving forward hopefully giving way to something exponentially better.

there is one near clark/w25, none in OC and I think the next nearest one is in the ware house (w.6 or 9th?) hood, and the next nearest one off w117.

"despite being a child of the 80's and sadly an underage imbiber of alcohol, managed to skip the cheap stuff "

 

I *knew* I liked you! ;-) right back at ya!

There is one just north of I90 on the west side of W25th street.

This is a good shot from Clevelumbus' very nice photo essay that shows the gateway to the Market Square District entering from Lorain/east.

First, the old United Bank & Trust building on the left should be fixed up and cleaned up (I hate the sooty grime to this handsome structure).  It's the largest office structure in Ohio City and could really help the area's mix with Class A office space... and the ground level should be redeveloped into street-level shops.  Secondly, the area in the foreground, both east and west of the Rapid stop should be rehabbed right up to the camera (and the Hope Bridge).  I guess the Hope VI project could help with this, but I'm not sure where it is, right now, in terms of progress.

^ I agree about the cleanup of the united bank building-it is needed. My office is in there, and the location is great-as are the views from the top floors -I see the lake, the market and GLBC out my window-what more could you ask for?  Some of the floors in the building are marble, really amazing.  your idea about the first floor is timely. the Medicaid offices are moving out this fall, and a large part of the first floor will be vacant, including the impressive high ceiling former bank offices.  the rent in the building is well under market value which draws an interesting/funky mix of businesses.  I think a huge overhaul would be in order to make a difference in the old gal. I think the owner has been around for  a while and may own that whole block from what I understand. Not sure how motivated he is. Anyway, I would love to see some business on the first floor

It's a great location, peabody.  How is the pulse of the Market Square district, by day?  Are there people walking the streets; patronizing the businesses & eateries?  I'm assuming GLBC always draws some pulse to the area, but so much depends on whether the WSM is open or not.  Do you agree with me that that goofy, strip shopping Market Plaza or whatever it's called, should be torn down and replaced with a mixed-use, high density project (not unlike Fries & Schuele)?

Btw, peobody, who's the prime tenant in the UB&T building?

^ currently the biggest tenant in the United Bank Building is  Cuyahoga County Jobs and Family Services (Medicaid and Food Stamps). they are on first floor,as well as an optometrist, and a couple of other floors. When they leave-they are going to a another former bank building off Fulton Parkway, there will be a lot of vacancies.  the tentents are a mish mash of social service agencies, some medical professionals and attorneys, the mediation center, an architect, some small publications and such.  From a professional standpoint, if I were a competitive business person, it could be hard to give off a very good impression to clients since the building could use  a lot of sprucing up. that is why I think there a lot of non profits in there.  The location is great for social services b/c it is in the heart of the community, and easily accessable by public transport. BTW there is a great Greek store on the Lorain side of the building called Athens Pasty-great, fresh, inexpensive sandwiches made to order. Great Lakes always seems to have great business, as does Talkies coffee house. Nate's always has a jumping lunch biz, regardless of market days. Phenom Phen (sp) also seems to be doing well. I would not say the streets die on non market days. It is a bit of a transportation hub, so there is often activity on the square. Occasionally there is some tom foolery going on out there. it is still not quite at the point where you would want to sit out there and enjoy your lunch on a regular basis yet (I've tried and there are issues) but could be getting there at some point. Finally, I hate that plaza on the SE corner of Lorain and 25th. There often seem to be menacing youth hanging out there harassing people. It has a whole differnet vibe over there...and it is just across the street.  I think it would be an amazing place to develop with the rapid and market right across the street. The only down side to residential right there (as it would be with the United Bank Building) would be the plethora of REALLY LOUD emergency vehicles that pass through that intersection frequently. You are right b/t Metro and Lutheran...and there must be a fire house very near too.

I know one weeknight, during the spring, we were having dinner at Great Lakes and there were a bunch of drunks in Market Square, where plans exists to redesign.  These guys, some of whom appeared homeless, were menacing and smashing bottles -- a horrible scene for one of our leading neighborhoods.  I’m glad to hear during market closure hours the neighborhood still buzzes.  This corner is the major transit hub on the West Side – with the a bunch of West Side buses crisscrossing at W. 25th/Lorain and the Ohio City-Red Line stop a block away.  And it’s for this reason we should see even greater TOD construction here.  There are barriers for expansion as you noted: Lutheran Medical on the north, the Rapid/train/freeway gulley to the south, St. Ignatius HS to the west and, of course, the Flats, to the east… But that still leaves a lot of frontage that is still develop-able (including a number of gaps that can use some serious infill.  And keep in mind, as much as we love it and it’s awesome and draws thousands, the West Side Market, itself, becomes a barrier when it’s closed (which is quite often)– it’s huge and takes up a great deal of street frontage on both W. 25 and Lorain – but obviously, WSM is an institution we must be forced to work around. 

 

If United Bank’s street level could be developed (I do like the little Greek take-out grocery store on the W. 25th side), it could bridge development south where there’s (if I recall) a biker’s joint, a furniture dealer, a palm reader and that nuisance bar, among others, further down, where there was a murder a few months ago outside.  Currently, the viable Market Square strip effectively ends at Lorain (heading south), but if that area could be opened up (and, as we agree, rebuilt, in the case of Market Plaza), we could seriously build on what’s already a great neighborhood. 

 

And I never would think of seriously altering the charm that makes the residential part of Ohio City special.  We need to keep some restaurants like Heck’s, Parker’s, Johnny Mango’s, le Oui-Oui, etc, off the main strip and deep within the throwback, village-like neighborhood.  With the diversity, the upscale residents and businesses, the transit, the charm and, the closeness to downtown, Ohio City seems an area without limits, potential-wise.  Btw, have you heard any news about Hope VI?

 

yes, I agree so much potential. Market square still has its moments, hopefully fewer are on the horizon. In fact there have been neighborhood walks organized Ohio City Near West Development Corp. that have scared the drug  dealers off the square. I am sure I am out of the loop with the Hope project. So I expect this to be corrected by others who may have more up to date info. I know River View Towers across form Lutheran is to come down. That is where Hope was to be built, but as it has been much discussed, the slope was to unstable for the housing they had planned there. So the plans are to scatter low income housing throughout the community (ie off Church ave where they already own  a building) ...but where this stands is in question. I prefer low income housing to scattered thoughout the community (and not just the city, should be thoughtout the county-remember it is called Cuyahoga Metro Housing Authority..not Cleveland) as opposed to huge projects.  I think the large projects continue to stigmatize low income people for many differtent reasons. I am sure this has been discussed on this or other threads, but with Hope as we knew it (large scale) being off the table, and River View going down , there is the possibility this will make the shortage of low income housing even greater.  A few scatter sites are being proposed, but there will not be as many units as the Hope project had planned.

 

Now about the "biker joint"...do you mean the scooter shop (Pride of Cleveland Scooters) on w.25th? I love that place, that is where I got my pride and joy that gets 90+ MPG. its gotta stay! I wasn't sure which strip you where talking about (Lorain one or 25th one)b/c sadly there has been a murder in each area in the last few months... :cry:

All the news that's fit to print about the Riverview HOPE VI project has been compiled here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2492.270

 

By the way, there are NO PLANS to demolish the towers.  The demo of several low-rise structures that surrounded the towers took place in the late-1990s (I believe).  The new housing was supposed to be built on that land, which is now grass and is being studied for redevelopment as a park (more to come).  Check out the above link for more on where the housing part of the project stands.

From CNDC's Infomail:

 

http://cndc2.org/documents/AUGUSTNEWSLETTER_000.pdf

 

CMHA PLANS PARK IN OHIO CITY

 

The Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority could create within a year the first public park in Cleveland

overlooking the Cuyahoga Valley and the City skyline.

 

For years, CMHA dreamed of building a mixedincome, high-rise apartment complex on the 17.3 acre property in question, located off West 25th Street in Cleveland’s Ohio City neighborhood.

 

Aside from an address just south of the landmark Detroit-Superior (Veterans Memorial) Bridge, the land boasts the skyline view made famous in a 1928 photograph by Margaret Bourke-White, which shows a smoke-shrouded Terminal Tower under construction.

 

But having decided it would cost too much to stabilize the land, which is sliding slowly downhill toward the Cuyahoga River, the housing authority now wants to turn the site into a park.

 

“It’s the best use of the land since we can’t build housing,” said George Phillips, the CMHA director. “There’s a definite lack of open space in Ohio City. It offers some of the best unobstructed views of the skyline in Cleveland. I think it would be a fantastic park.

 

Phillips said he would launch a planning process for the park that will involve community residents, city planners and Ohio City New West Development Corporation.

This is a good shot from Clevelumbus' very nice photo essay that shows the gateway to the Market Square District entering from Lorain/east.

 

My first impression: could Lorain be any wider east of W25th?

 

Similarly, Hope VI or not, West 25th desperately needs to be narrowed north of Bridge.  One the best ideas of the Goody Clancy scheme was to insert a small streetfront building between W25th and Riverview Towers to extend the "main street" corridor a bit further north in conjunction with road narrowing.  I'm sure this plan died with the hillside scheme but it really deserves to be resurrected.

 

 

From Wimwar, by way of another thread...

 

By the way, we did see someone (a painter?) working in the Moda space two nights ago.

 

Why, yes!  Yes, we did!

 

Any ideas?  Murmurs?

^^ I absolutely agree with blinker, no way should the towers be demo'd.  I very much agree with HUD's emphasis on not segregating/warehousing the poor in towers like these and integrating them more amongst the rest of us -- but let's not throw away these valuable high-rises which happen to be solid buildings on prime RE. They could very easily be retrofitted for luxury apt/condo use, including the adding of balconies.  I've seen it done in the east many times.  Re-fitted, units in these buildings would be snapped up instantly.  Riverview Towers have a comanding view of downtown and is situated right in the heart of one of Cleveland's hottest districts.  Plus, buildiings of this type are rare, here -- outside of the Lakewood Gold Coast, I'll  bet we have less than 10 true high-rise residential buildings anywhere in Greater Cleveland, and that includes Bratenahl and Euclid.  We're not a high-rise city by nature.  Why trash what could be a treasure? 

 

What's more, like what's planned for MOCA at the Triangle buildings at U. Circle, street-level retail can be built at the base of Riverview fronting on W. 25 which would have the effect of stretching the rather small (though very nice) retail district that currently exists.

 

Can we puullleeeze stop this bass-ackward Cleveland policy of tearing down viable buildings for surface parking!?  How can this particular absurd demolition be stopped: through CMHA, HUD/the Feds?  Who ever it is, Joe Cimperman, OCDC, Mayor Jackson and whoever should get their asses in gear on this one.

^Wow, how many times do I have to type this?  NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT DEMO-ING THE TOWERS!!!  B12 was referring to the 2-3 story building on 28th & Church.  For some reason, people on this site keep making allusions to some plans to tear down Riverview Towers.  Nonsense!  But, the issue of demo-ing the brick building on 28th & Church can certainly be debated...

Rob from Zen Salon on Lorain is purchasing the Fashion Shop (?) next to the bank on bridge. This will allow him to increase his business space from the current 3,000 sq ft of usable space to 7,000 sq ft, not including the roof which he will eventually use.

He is going to completely gut the building. I do not know what his architect plans to do with the outside.

The sale is still pending, but should be final by October

Construction will take a year.

^Wow, how many times do I have to type this?  NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT DEMO-ING THE TOWERS!!!  B12 was referring to the 2-3 story building on 28th & Church.  For some reason, people on this site keep making allusions to some plans to tear down Riverview Towers.  Nonsense!  But, the issue of demo-ing the brick building on 28th & Church can certainly be debated...

 

Actually, you're dead wrong on this.  I have read, elsewhere (in UO and on another site, I'll find & present it) of talk of demo'ing the Towers after Sec. 8 residents are relocated from the towers.  It's a NATIONAL public housing initiative... And short of tearing these buildings down -- which are obviously solid -- are there plans for retrofitting them as I suggest?  Just having them sit there empty, too, is unacceptable.

^a year? Are they doing the interior in gold leaf? What would take so long?

I'd heard talk of this...fantastic!  I like the old Zen location, but this will be much better for their business...more visible, larger, etc.  And it'll be great for W. 25th!  This is the old Today's Fashions space, by the way. 

Ok, well you present your sources and I'll present mine and then we'll put this baby to bed for good!

"Actually, you're dead wrong on this.  I have read, elsewhere (in UO and on another site, I'll find & present it) of talk of demo'ing the Towers after Sec. 8 residents are relocated from the towers."

 

Honestly I think you may be confusing Riverview Towers with Riverview Estates, which were the low-rise buildings adjacent to the towers (now demolished and the site of a new park). The people in ESTATES were the residents who were moved into scattered Section 8 sites.

 

Riverview Towers is NOT Section 8, it is strictly subsidized senior housing - and yes, there's a big difference. There never has and most likely won't be for some time, ANY plan to move the residents from Riverview Towers. Riverview Estates has always been part of the Hope VI plans - Riverview Towers has not. If you can find a reputable, detailed source stating to the contrary, I'll stand corrected but I don't see that happening.

 

http://www.cmha.net/cmha_information/riverview_towers.asp

 

Note the following:

"The original Riverview construction contained ten residential buildings with 135 units and a high rise for elderly residents, containing 644 dwelling units, on 18.2 acres.

 

In order to create a mixed-income development in Ohio City, CMHA applied for and received a Hope VI Grant in 1996 to demolish 135 family units and to construct a mixed income development containing 420 units, out of which 81 units were to be used as replacement public housing units. Upon receipt of the Hope VI Grant, the 135 family units on the Riverview site were demolished. CMHA and its development partner, Telesis Corporation, is now in the process of submitting a revised Revitalization Plan for the Riverview Development Project."

"^a year? Are they doing the interior in gold leaf? What would take so long?"

 

Have YOU ever tried to remake a 70s-80s tack-o-rama into a foo-foo salon along the lines of Zen? I haven't but I can only imagine what all would be included.

 

Converting a space into a salon presents a lot of different challenges than simply reusing what's there. There are plumbing issues (aka you need more than one shampoo station), rewiring issues (in addition to lighting, each stylists' station will need heavy duty outlets and plenty of them), and that's just getting the place to function as a salon - not to mention, Zen takes it up a notch on the decor (that's what my people do). If they're replicating and/or expanding their spa services in addition to the above mentioned stuff - I can easily see how it would take a year.

"^a year? Are they doing the interior in gold leaf? What would take so long?"

 

Have YOU ever tried to remake a 70s-80s tack-o-rama into a foo-foo salon along the lines of Zen?

 

No, good point.  My renovation work usually deals with medieval castles and Mayan temples.

Ok, well you present your sources and I'll present mine and then we'll put this baby to bed for good!

 

I'm in & out today and will check, but I'm sure I picked it up from another UO thread, as I mentioned.  Obviously, I hope you're right and I'm wrong... But dude, chill out, get a life, it ain't that important.

But dude, chill out, get a life, it ain't that important.

 

Wait, you're telling him to chill out when you responded with a Actually, you're dead wrong on this.?    :roll: 

See? Those might be complex projects but do they involve pedicure stations and mud mask stations? :-D

Have YOU ever tried to remake a 70s-80s tack-o-rama into a foo-foo salon along the lines of Zen?

 

I think that's a candidate for "quote of the year"

Wow...hard to believe they are going to tear that tower down........ :laugh:

^^SRSLY ~*~SAVE TEH TOWERZ~*~

LovesIt,

 

That new avatar is, um, odd to say the least.

Wow...hard to believe they are going to tear that tower down........ :laugh:

troublemaker!

^ LOL

The towers are definitely coming down and they're going to move the GT3 to the empty space.

i thought it was going to be surface parking.  i must be confusing this with new downtown development. 

I still don't understand how Clevealnd can't pull off shoring up the land behind the tower.....(the hillside overlooking the river and DT) and build there?  It's not like this has never been done in the history of mankind.  That is PRIME land for what could be an awesome project of some sort...but of course money comes into play and then the excuses roll.  The whole river area....the hillside, the penninsula, it has soooo much potential...but yet it is all just sitting there going to waste! 

Back to the hillside.....is this owned by the county or privately owned?  It would be nice if a private contractor could do something there.  Maybe not just build on TOP of the hill....but actually INTO the hill!  Maybe a San Fran type neighborhood built into the hill.....seems like such a waste just sitting there...waiting to be turned into a park that nobody will use.

I have heard nothing even suggesting that they are tearing down Riverview but would have no problem with it.  They are simply UGLY.  Remind me of something you would find in the Soviet Bloc.  Why spend millions to renovate them (even into luxury units as suggested above) when in the end you would simply have rich people living in piss poor architecture rather than seniors living in piss poor architecture.  Tear them door and build some stunning, well designed towers.  That said, poor seniors also have a right to great views of downtown which I am sure the current towers afford (having never been inside).

"waiting to be turned into a park that nobody will use."

 

I have to disagree - one thing that Ohio City lacks, especially along the West 25th corridor is greenspace. I think if it was properly re-done, it could be a great asset to the neighborhood.

As an Ohio City resident, I am very excited about the park. It will have the most dramatic skyline views.  It will be a draw for the view at the very least.

 

There really isn't that much useable green space in the neighborhood. This park will give us a place to meet and recreate.

Maybe we are talking about a different area....but how much use is going to made out of a hillside?  ballparks?  no  B-ball or tennis?  no....

 

I am not talking about the land directly behind the tower....but the hillside itself.

 

And I agree, a park would be nice.....but I just don't like the way the make parks in Cleveland a giant field....Luke Easter, Zone, etc....I prefer some developement and have a nice park integrated within.... Bryant Park is a good ex (NYC)

 

I am all for parks....but I am NOT all for letting land just go to waste (Penninsula, the river banks, and the hillside)

Drive behind the tower and take a look at the fenced-off area. That will give you a great idea of the park's location.  Also, imagine the view from the eastern edge of the park if many of the trees are cut down or trimmed back.

^That also gives you an idea of just how unstable the hillside is. Franklin, especially near the crest of the hill near the Transitional Housing is in awful shape and buckling severely. Stupid glaciers!*

 

*The glaciers that carved out Lake Erie deposited a lot of shale and sediment just south of the shoreline (aka downtown and whatnot), thus making for really bad soil conditions. :speech:

 

Here's a pic that shows the amazing view (one of my favorites):