May 16, 20178 yr What's happening here? http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/05192017/index.php Agenda for May 19, 2017 Ordinance No. xxx-17(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Directors of the Department of Community Development and the Department of Public Works to transfer the jurisdiction of City-owned property at the West Side Market known as the Hicks Lot, located between West 24th Place and West 24th Street and between Market Avenue and Bridge Avenue, from the Department of Community Development to the Department of Public Works. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21, 20178 yr And to go along with Dumbledore's great photo set above, here's another aerial shot of the nameless W25th/Detroit project from today:
May 24, 20178 yr More retail coming soon to W. 25th! @ohiocitytweets (https://t.co/LfAYaqDMHy) https://t.co/9xCx7sfHNj "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 26, 20178 yr Six reasons it's crazy to build a Cleveland school on valuable land with lake views: Rick Foran (Opinion) Posted on May 26, 2017 at 8:59 AM BY GUEST COLUMNIST/CLEVELAND.COM CLEVELAND -- Why is land for development so expensive? Because they're not making any more of it: That is the old axiom in the real estate development industry. That is just one reason why the Cleveland School District's plan to build a new West Side high school on a nearly five-acre site on a breathtaking bluff overlooking Lake Erie, downtown Cleveland, and the redesigned Shoreway boulevard just doesn't make sense. The school district built a brand new Max Hayes industrial trade school recently and then tore down the original and cleared the site at West 45th Street and the Shoreway. Now they intend to build a new high school on that site. MORE: http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/05/6_reasons_why_its_crazy_to_rec.html#incart_river_home "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 26, 20178 yr Every time I drive by that site it makes me crazy that anyone would consider putting a school there! The leadership in this town is absolutely clueless.....UGH
May 26, 20178 yr Every time I drive by that site it makes me crazy that anyone would consider putting a school there! The leadership in this town is absolutely clueless.....UGH Exactly. A total leadership void. It's confounding that our very very poor school district is not poised to make the fiscally responsible decision to sell.
May 26, 20178 yr I've been harping about this for a while now. Every time I pass by that site, I get depressed knowing that the school district is really messing up that stretch of Detroit Avenue. The amount of money that make by selling the site is likely yuuuge.
May 26, 20178 yr ^Actual, wasn't there a post some time ago by somebody with inside knowledge that stated developers (or maybe just one developer) made ridiculous offers for the property and basically were trying to steal it.
May 26, 20178 yr ^ That's possible. But the district can get an appraisal and demand fair market value.
May 26, 20178 yr Extremely depressing. Feel free to fill up the comments section on Cleveland.com everyone. This is in the face of continued projected city/county population loss in an area with the highest potential of adding much needed density/tax revenue/quality of life.
May 26, 20178 yr The school district has been offered a significant sum of money to sell the land but has refused. Ultimately the school district answers to the mayor so it may require pressuring the mayor to, in turn, pressure the school district. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 26, 20178 yr There seems to be a lot of hand ringing about the site of this school. Can someone explain why this site is so much worse than the school Dick Pace is proposing to put right on the lakefront as part of his development? I don't believe I heard nearly as much disdain for that idea, and in fact I think people supported the idea of a quality school to serve downtown residents. That location is much closer to the lake than this one on Detroit, so what are people's thoughts?
May 26, 20178 yr ^ I don't think anyone envisions Pace's school to have a large footprint. Rather it's one of many ingredients to help get the final recipe there. On the other hand the former Max Hayes property is expansive within the hottest residential area of the city.
May 26, 20178 yr ^ Yep. More to do with it creating a long 'dead zone' down the street, than it is about it being 'lakeview' property. My hovercraft is full of eels
May 26, 20178 yr The Lakeview just makes it more valuable and dumber for the district to hold onto it.
May 26, 20178 yr I wonder if the Trinity site further up Detroit is cleaned up enough to host a school?
May 26, 20178 yr I wonder if the Trinity site further up Detroit is cleaned up enough to host a school? This site is the new city kennel. Groundbreaking is pretty soon. I'm pretty universally pro-development, but on this matter I think people are missing some key reasons that this site is well-suited to remain an education facility. If you split the site and constructed high-density apartments on half and then a more vertical school on the other half I think that would work well. However, barring that high-density scheme, we'd be getting more townhouses. If you just copied the ones on Tillman you could maybe cram 85 to 90 units on the high school parcel. One of those Tillman units currently has an annual tax bill of under 7k according to the auditor's site. Even if these theoretical new units would be contributing proportionally more in property tax, the payments wouldn't start for fifteen years because of the tax abatement. I would argue that the tax revenue beginning in 1.5 decades from 85 to 90 townhouses is not equivalent to the net positive impact of a brand new, quality high school. The only open parcels I can think of in Cudell and West Blvd that can handle a project of this scale are industrial sites that would need pretty significant brownfield remediation that I doubt the project financing would quickly, easily cover. Also, there have been rumblings that someone may be tentatively lined up to start developing those brownfield sites, so you have to consider the overall future tax benefits of light industrial sites of that scale. Also, I really hate the argument that "kids don't need nice lake views from school! Let them look at some neighboring warehouses instead!" The "radius" argument is good on the surface but not as persuasive when you consider transit access. A significant amount of CMSD students rely on RTA to commute to school. The accessibility of a high school on Detroit Ave is far superior to one that’s plopped somewhere within Cudell. I'm not totally sure of the reason West Tech was shuttered, but if I had to guess it was probably at least partially because there wasn't a significant enough student population in Cudell and West Blvd to support the facility. Also, back to transit access, it would be harder to get to if you have to rely on an RTA bus. So while I think this WSHS design could be better, I think the situation is way more nuanced than it's being portrayed.
May 26, 20178 yr I'm not totally sure of the reason West Tech was shuttered, but if I had to guess it was probably at least partially because there wasn't a significant enough student population in Cudell and West Blvd to support the facility. Also, back to transit access, it would be harder to get to if you have to rely on an RTA bus. West Tech was closed because the 1912 building wasn't well-maintained. The school was closed at a time of declining enrollment, long before the district had passed new levies allowing for facility investments. And since the state funding criteria favors constructing new vs. rebuilding old, the school district went with new construction to replace most of its old facilities. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 26, 20178 yr Divide the site into two parts, and sell off the part with the nice views to developers. Then build the new high school with more stories and parking in the back (and remove the useless grassy yard). I heard they had a ridiculously high offer for the site, and I'm sure they could still make a lot of money by just selling part of the site. This plan would still allow them to keep the high school where they want it, while also making some money for new textbooks/computers/etc which could benefit the whole school system. This would also create a denser, more urban environment with no setbacks from the sidewalk, which would be a much better fit for a neighborhood that's so close to downtown. I also think the simultaneous development of a new high school AND a new residential/retail development could be the shot in the arm this stretch of Detroit needs. There are plenty of empty/underutilized properties directly adjacent to this site. Has CMSD even thought of this? I can't think of any negatives to this solution. It allows the school to be built there, as well as new (potentially mixed-use) development next-door, and is overall a more efficient use of land.
May 26, 20178 yr Divide the site into two parts, and sell off the part with the nice views to developers. Then build the new high school with more stories and parking in the back (and remove the useless grassy yard). I heard they had a ridiculously high offer for the site, and I'm sure they could still make a lot of money by just selling part of the site. This plan would still allow them to keep the high school where they want it, while also making some money for new textbooks/computers/etc which could benefit the whole school system. This would also create a denser, more urban environment with no setbacks from the sidewalk, which would be a much better fit for a neighborhood that's so close to downtown. I also think the simultaneous development of a new high school AND a new residential/retail development could be the shot in the arm this stretch of Detroit needs. There are plenty of empty/underutilized properties directly adjacent to this site. Has CMSD even thought of this? I can't think of any negatives to this solution. It allows the school to be built there, as well as new (potentially mixed-use) development next-door, and is overall a more efficient use of land. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
May 26, 20178 yr Welcome, ethlaw. Terrific first post! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 28, 20178 yr Discussion of the Brickman development has been moved here: https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28822.280.html
May 28, 20178 yr Just a reminder of what we initially saw, and why I hate falling in love with initial renders lol: [edit: oops sorry X, I'm late getting the memo]
May 31, 20178 yr Yes, I try hard to not get attached to preliminary drawings and images at least until official construction, and even then it might be premature. Hence I avoid charettes and other pie-in-the-sky-type discussuons or lengthy descriptions of student design projects.
June 5, 20178 yr A concrete serpent monster has risen from the abyss of W25th and Detroit. Brilliant description :clap:
June 5, 20178 yr I saw it from the Shoreway today. It looked like something out of the remake of War of the Worlds. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 5, 20178 yr A concrete serpent monster has risen from the abyss of W25th and Detroit. Too dreary to be Loch Ness haha.
June 6, 20178 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2017/06082017/index.php 1. Case 17-031 Market Square Historic District Goetz Building 1898 West 25th Street Storefront and Façade Renovation Ward 3 McCormack John Williams Process Architects Doug Perkowski "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 6, 20178 yr That's a really cool little building! I like the subtle bay windows and I actually love the geometry and proportions but especially on the original. I usually hate those glass cinder blocks that you see on a lot of the 1930s commercial buildings but...I don't know; it's charming on this one. I wonder why they chose to get rid of them. I guess if you're trying to give the façade a face-lift and make it look shiny and new again, the glass blocks just look like a dreary remnant dragging everything else down. Also, on that left side, they look pushed in for some reason. Maybe there's no way to repair that? I wish that brand new infill projects looked as stately as this building.
June 6, 20178 yr The elevation doesn't make it clear but I hope they keep the ghost mural on the side of the building. There's mention of brick cleaning which is obviously good for aesthetics but I'm not a fan of ghost mural erasure. I think it's important to keep those around. Part of the beauty of truly great neighborhoods is seeing remnants of the past and how it evolved. It's really nice to get a sense of the history of the buildings.
June 12, 20178 yr A company named Aha Development has acquired six parcels of land on the SE corner of Lorain Avenue and West 44th Street. Aha is located in the Tenk Building, 2111 Center St. on the West Bank of the Flats. Anyone know who they are and what they have in mind for this worn-out corner? Below is one of the six parcels Aha acquired, located right at the corner of Lorain and 44th... 4327 LORAIN AVE CLEVELAND Sales Date 5/15/2017 Amount $0 Buyer AHA DEVELOPMENT OHC LLC Seller 3C DEVELOPMENTS LLC Deed type LIMITED WA Land value $11,700 Building value $160,800 Total value $172,500 Parcel 007-01-002 Property Small (under 7500 sq. ft.) detached retail "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 12, 20178 yr Hmmm... tenk building is owned by Rafid Fadul. He is an investor in Platform's production facility. Could be a connection.
June 12, 20178 yr If you look upthread, you should find some plans for redeveloping that corner with some renovation of the current building combined with some new build.
June 12, 20178 yr ^i hope so! That's one of my favorite proposed projects in Ohio City. From a design standpoint, if they build what's in that rendering, it will be an awesome combination of modern and historic architecture. The weathering steel look fits right in here in Cleveland.
June 12, 20178 yr ^i hope so! That's one of my favorite proposed projects in Ohio City. From a design standpoint, if they build what's in that rendering, it will be an awesome combination of modern and historic architecture. The weathering steel look fits right in here in Cleveland. Has a very Williamsburg, Brooklyn feel to it
June 12, 20178 yr Looks like the W. 44th & Lorain Ave. project at the SE corner is working its way to reality. YEA!!! The next logical step in improving the W. 44th & Lorain Ave. intersection of OC is for the county and city to move all the services that are currently in the McCafferty Center to a new location, which will allow the NE corner of W. 44th & Lorain Ave to be redeveloped. The McCafferty Health Center has to be at least 40-50 years old; is an eyesore in that area of OC as the building has not been properly maintained, and is in need of replacement imo. I know on this OC thread there has been talk of MetroHealth Medical opening a new facility to serve the area (at Lorain & Fulton Ave.), and if that happens at Lorain & Fulton, or somewhere else in OC, I hope such a project would be held to a higher standard design wise for being in OC.
June 12, 20178 yr How odd. Looks like the furniture bldg. had windows of ca. 1910 style, and the current plan is to make the bldg. look Victorian and fill in the vacant lot to the east with an imitation Victorian extension? And then a contemporary appendage set onto the roof - a penthouse?
June 12, 20178 yr How odd. Looks like the furniture bldg. had windows of ca. 1910 style, and the current plan is to make the bldg. look Victorian and fill in the vacant lot to the east with an imitation Victorian extension? And then a contemporary appendage set onto the roof - a penthouse? Heck yeah. Took me a second to realize this wasn't a teardown.
June 12, 20178 yr How odd. Looks like the furniture bldg. had windows of ca. 1910 style, and the current plan is to make the bldg. look Victorian and fill in the vacant lot to the east with an imitation Victorian extension? And then a contemporary appendage set onto the roof - a penthouse? Heck yeah. Took me a second to realize this wasn't a teardown. It is a tear down.
June 12, 20178 yr How odd. Looks like the furniture bldg. had windows of ca. 1910 style, and the current plan is to make the bldg. look Victorian and fill in the vacant lot to the east with an imitation Victorian extension? And then a contemporary appendage set onto the roof - a penthouse? Heck yeah. Took me a second to realize this wasn't a teardown. It is a tear down. Interesting. It looks substantially like the original building facade.
June 12, 20178 yr Look at the windows, especially on the second floor. Totally different. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 12, 20178 yr Look at the windows, especially on the second floor. Totally different. Agree they look different. I just thought they were being restored to match the building next door. Anyhow, it looks right for this corner. Lorain is blowing up.
June 16, 20177 yr Couple pics from today... Second floor going up on Detroit and 25th. Moving quickly now - none of the wood was up as of this morning. All the exterior work seems to be done on the old Spaces building. All new windows in and workers have been very busy inside for awhile now. Also, the building catty-corner from the old Spaces has been undergoing a complete gutting. Not sure exactly whats going on with it, but lease signs are still up, so I'm assuming its still going to be offices.
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