August 9, 20186 yr Pictures from the article. I think it's a perfect fit for the neighborhood, and adding office space in a very under-served is a great idea, I'd love to ride the rapid right to work in Ohio City.
August 9, 20186 yr Let's hope the final design of the actual buildings is more inspiring than these renderings. Excellent scale though to be sure.
August 9, 20186 yr None probably. Which of these would realistically pay rent for brand new space? And wait 2 years to open. H&R Block Spectrum Sherwin-Williams Subway Keybank Chinatown Two Cousins Pizza Hut Its a decent tenant mix right now. KeyBank maybe. For the rest of these businesses, there is plenty of space available down Lorain Ave :) Ostensibly there would be a parking ramp component of such a development. I don't see any problem with any of these tenants. They are sort of normal-life businesses for many people.
August 9, 20186 yr Love the ambition, and pretty much anything like this will be a huge improvement, but not a huge fan of this massing. That plaza is going to be dark and pretty bleak for most of the year given its orientation and the height of the building. And instead of losing square footage on their diagonal walkway from the corner, I wish they'd just shave off the northeastern corner by the rapid station to restore the view of the WSM tower from Abbey Ave. But super exciting to see serious movement here.
August 9, 20186 yr Beautiful. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 9, 20186 yr Good first stab at conceptual design for the site. I would like to see some underground connection to the RTA station to make this seriously TOD-like. Perhaps ideally from the middle of the plaza have the tunnel go straight to the rapid station. More realistically it will probably have to be near the sidewalk and fully controlled by RTA.
August 9, 20186 yr ^I suspect a better connection to the station would be from above, providing a new ramp/stair to the southern end of the platform. Which would be great. The current circulation at that station is pretty lousy.
August 9, 20186 yr Interestingly, this is the second announcement this year of a large-scale, mixed-use development with a Chicago developer located at a Cleveland rail station. Lest we forget that Flats East Bank Phase 3 features a 12-story apartment building called Kenect Cleveland, which is a 50-50 joint venture between Wolstein and Chicago investor-developer Akara. Chicago investors see the value in making large-scale developments around higher-capacity, electrically powered rail systems. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 9, 20186 yr BTW, we need not overlook this paragraph near the end of mjarboe[/member]'s article (ie: there's probably more coming).... Within weeks, RTA expects to solicit interest from developers in nearby land it owns on Columbus Road. "The goal is to create a high-quality, dense, mixed-use, transit-oriented development on the site, which could complement this new Harbor Bay project," spokeswoman Linda Krecic wrote in an email. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 10, 20186 yr This project is a game-changer for Cleveland. So much residential multifamily development (The Quarter, Battery Park, Edison, Etc) on the Near West has been unfortunately far from the Red Line. This has long been the absolute best TOD site in the city and I think most of us had resigned ourselves to the fact that it wasn't going to happen anytime soon. And to boot we have a developer from a transit-oriented city with experience doing TOD. Could not be happier.
August 10, 20186 yr The next long-term dream is a mixed-use, mixed-income TOD at 65th & Lorain... Good call. And soon that ginormous surface lot behind the Market may start looking really tasty.
August 10, 20186 yr The next long-term dream is a mixed-use, mixed-income TOD at 65th & Lorain... You mean something like this?? ;) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 10, 20186 yr BTW, we need not overlook this paragraph near the end of mjarboe[/member]'s article (ie: there's probably more coming).... Within weeks, RTA expects to solicit interest from developers in nearby land it owns on Columbus Road. "The goal is to create a high-quality, dense, mixed-use, transit-oriented development on the site, which could complement this new Harbor Bay project," spokeswoman Linda Krecic wrote in an email. has RTA considered becoming a partner in development projects as a way to diversify revenue streams? Rather than selling the land outright they could share in the cash flow.
August 10, 20186 yr Yes, but way bigger. I think the city should sell a bit of land from Michael J Zone. It's so big they could give a bit and preserve the park.
August 10, 20186 yr Personally I love it. I like the site plan, the multiple buildings, the large windows in the towers. Kind of hard to tell though from this rendering whats going on at street level and how that's going to work. That Plaza will be jam packed in the summer and if it's done right the winter also. All the retail space makes me a little nervous but that's why we need another half dozen of these over the next five years to bring more traffic to these doors. I am less concerned these days about how beautiful the design is. I just want it to be functional and sustainable. I'll save the iconic designs for the Jacobs Lot and the higher profile spaces. Let's just build and rehab more stuff. Keep the momentum going. It brings energy and hope to a city.
August 10, 20186 yr has RTA considered becoming a partner in development projects as a way to diversify revenue streams? Rather than selling the land outright they could share in the cash flow. No. They don't know how to do that. Yes, but way bigger. I think the city should sell a bit of land from Michael J Zone. It's so big they could give a bit and preserve the park. I'd rather see ARJ's Auto Sales and Menyhart Plumbing & Heating Supply give way to something more vertical and mixed. But that's for the Detroit-Shoreway thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 10, 20186 yr BTW, we need not overlook this paragraph near the end of mjarboe[/member]'s article (ie: there's probably more coming).... Within weeks, RTA expects to solicit interest from developers in nearby land it owns on Columbus Road. "The goal is to create a high-quality, dense, mixed-use, transit-oriented development on the site, which could complement this new Harbor Bay project," spokeswoman Linda Krecic wrote in an email. has RTA considered becoming a partner in development projects as a way to diversify revenue streams? Rather than selling the land outright they could share in the cash flow. It would be nice if the could borrow some expertise from PlayhouseSquare, because they seem to be absolute experts in that regard.
August 10, 20186 yr BTW, we need not overlook this paragraph near the end of mjarboe[/member]'s article (ie: there's probably more coming).... Within weeks, RTA expects to solicit interest from developers in nearby land it owns on Columbus Road. "The goal is to create a high-quality, dense, mixed-use, transit-oriented development on the site, which could complement this new Harbor Bay project," spokeswoman Linda Krecic wrote in an email. has RTA considered becoming a partner in development projects as a way to diversify revenue streams? Rather than selling the land outright they could share in the cash flow. They should sell air rights on top of their stations. Extend this new development to go literally on top of the W. 25 station.
August 10, 20186 yr Market Plaza caught the company's eye due to Dan Whalen, a 30-year-old Willoughby native who started working in real estate in 2012 and moved to Chicago in 2014. A former high school, college and arena-football quarterback, Whalen signed on at Harbor Bay in May "He would call on a pretty regular basis to check on the site. He was very persistent. ... These guys are looking at this pretty aggressively," said Tom McNair, executive director of Ohio City, Inc., a nonprofit neighborhood group. If you google Dan, he’s a very pro Cleveland guy...all-American QB from Case Western Reserve as well. For example, he wrote this piece in 2011: http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20110901/NEWS/309019974
August 10, 20186 yr He just followed me and my work (All Aboard Ohio) Twitter accounts in the past day. I was happy to return the favor! Now can we can convince them to buy the Jacobs Lot on Public Square?? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 10, 20186 yr has RTA considered becoming a partner in development projects as a way to diversify revenue streams? Rather than selling the land outright they could share in the cash flow. One glitch is that transit agencies who aren't using property they own are required by federal law to dispose of those properties. I'm pretty sure that includes land used by others for their purposes, even if it benefits the transit agency. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 10, 20186 yr RTA needs a pro-TOD/pro-transit nonprofit the way cities set up cdcs and improvement corporations.
August 10, 20186 yr RTA needs a pro-TOD/pro-transit nonprofit the way cities set up cdcs and improvement corporations. I've often considered this too. If you and others want to discuss it more, let's go here: https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1977.0.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 10, 20186 yr Market Plaza caught the company's eye due to Dan Whalen, a 30-year-old Willoughby native who started working in real estate in 2012 and moved to Chicago in 2014. A former high school, college and arena-football quarterback, Whalen signed on at Harbor Bay in May "He would call on a pretty regular basis to check on the site. He was very persistent. ... These guys are looking at this pretty aggressively," said Tom McNair, executive director of Ohio City, Inc., a nonprofit neighborhood group. If you google Dan, he’s a very pro Cleveland guy...all-American QB from Case Western Reserve as well. For example, he wrote this piece in 2011: http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20110901/NEWS/309019974 He threw for 380 yards and 5 TD's against me my freshman year. :|
August 10, 20186 yr BTW, we need not overlook this paragraph near the end of mjarboe[/member]'s article (ie: there's probably more coming).... Within weeks, RTA expects to solicit interest from developers in nearby land it owns on Columbus Road. "The goal is to create a high-quality, dense, mixed-use, transit-oriented development on the site, which could complement this new Harbor Bay project," spokeswoman Linda Krecic wrote in an email. Any idea where this land parcel is?
August 10, 20186 yr Looking at the county website, they own land on the west side of Columbus from 25th to almost the river (Franklin). Runs along the tracks. It fronts Columbus south of Abbey Ave bridge, but there are houses in front of RTA's land north of that bridge. Thing is that is all land earmarked for the Greenway, I thought. But they can probably squeeze something else in there along Columbus.
August 10, 20186 yr Huge thumbs up on the proposal. I hope they can get tenants for the office space without poaching downtown. My only complaint, and it's a minor one, I would rather see a strong statement at the corner of W. 25th and Lorain. Rather than worrying about respecting the Westside Market. I'd rather they make a statement of their own and build tall right up to the corner.
August 10, 20186 yr Looking at the county website, they own land on the west side of Columbus from 25th to almost the river (Franklin). Runs along the tracks. It fronts Columbus south of Abbey Ave bridge, but there are houses in front of RTA's land north of that bridge. Thing is that is all land earmarked for the Greenway, I thought. But they can probably squeeze something else in there along Columbus. See the zoning map posted in the Duck Island thread. The greenway is the old Cleveland Union Terminal railroad right of way (had only 2 CUT tracks but was designed to accommodate 4 tracks), within feet of and at the same elevation as the RTA tracks. The land to be sold will be a newly created parcel, between the old CUT right of way and Columbus Road. It's mostly sloping land. And I seem to recall that past plans for that site had the driveway/garage entrances down at track level with the hillside dug out for the garages with the living spaces for the townhouses above. Those plans were blocked by the old Duck Island Block Club when it was run by Rosemary Vinci. RIP. BTW, on Google I measured about 75 feet between the CUT right of way and the sidewalk along Columbus Road.... Columbus Road RTA parcel-2017 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 19, 20186 yr A couple of planned developments I've just noticed, both right next to each other.... Civic Builders/David Fragapane (dba Fairfield Redevelopment West 48TH LLC) Bought four parcels last November 2017 for the following development: 1432 West 48th Street (Rehab/New Construction) http://www.civicbuilders.com/ Then, last month, Brent Zimmerman dba 1436 West 48th LLC bought the James Norris Trucking Co./American Industrial Rigging The ownership of the company buying the property dead-ended at a lawyer's office, but the company's tax bills go to the home of Zimmerman on Lindazzo Avenue (ex-Avenue District Block 1). Zimmerman is co-owner of Saucy Bistro and is trying to develop the ex-Avenue District Block 2, now to be known as The Milton. On West 48th, presumably he will demolish the trucking company's two buildings and insert a mid-block residential development. Ohio City property transfers by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr 1436-West48th-OhioCIty-satellite by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr 1436-West48th-OhioCIty by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr 1432-West48th-OhioCIty by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 20, 20186 yr Taking the temperature of the Landmarks Commission before developing the project.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2018/08232018/index.php CONCEPT PLAN Case 18-052: Market Square Historic District Market Plaza Lorain Avenue West 25th Street Demolition and New Mixed-Use Construction Ward 3: McCormack Project Representatives: Dan Whalen, Harbor Bay Development, HPA Hartshorne Plunkard, Architecture A few of the graphics. More at the link above... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 20, 20186 yr Cool, didn't expect development here any time soon! One minor gripe... Why terimate the sight line view, looking east down the new Gehring St from 25th with a parking garage. It's a small detail but in my mind a proper/interesting termination is important aesthetic in an urban environment. Builders of the past seemed to capitalize on this design principle much more.
August 20, 20186 yr ^ viscomi[/member] I'm a little confused by what you'd like to see changed. Just the visibility down Gehring?
August 20, 20186 yr Just, the view not terminated by a parking structure. Doesn't have to be anything crazy. Maybe just wrap the street frontage with more apartments. Maybe im being petty haha
August 20, 20186 yr ^ viscomi[/member] I'm a little confused by what you'd like to see changed. Just the visibility down Gehring? They could maybe wrap some retail storefront around that corner section of the garage. I agree that street doesn't appear inviting. Looks like it dead ends at a factory.
August 20, 20186 yr Just, the view not terminated by a parking structure. Doesn't have to be anything crazy. Maybe just wrap the street frontage with more apartments. Maybe im being petty haha Maybe enlist a local artist for a mural!
August 20, 20186 yr "Terminal vista/view" is when you look down a street or visual corridor and instead of the view down that direction receding into the distant horizon, there is an object that blocks, or terminates that view. In architecture, those objects, be they a building or monument, are considered important wayfinding and placemaking opportunities. The parking garage has that opportunity because it terminates the view down Gehring, but doesn't take advantage of it.
August 24, 20186 yr Good news/bad news at Lorain and West 41st. First, the good news.... TPH2[/member] A former surface parking lot, now a construction site for new housing. For more about this development, see: https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,2492.msg882814.html#msg882814 The bad news. A parking lot was sacrificed for the above development, so now it looks like the funeral chapel is proposed to be sacrificed for a parking lot..... :'( http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2018/crr09-04-2018.pdf 9:30 Calendar No. 18-174: 3929 Lorain Ave. Ward 3 Kerry McCormack 19 Notices Triban Investments, owner, proposes to establish use as a parking lot in a C3 Local Retail Business District and a Pedestrian Retail Overlay District (PRO). The owner appeals for relief from the strict application of the following sections of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances 1. Section 341.02 which states that the premises are in a designated Design Review District, The City Planning and the Landmarks Commission approval are required; the City Planning Commission nor the Landmarks Commission have not approved the application. 2. Section 343.239(e) (2)(A)(B) which states that parking lots and driveways that extend across public sidewalks that are in the Pedestrian Retail Overlay District (PRO) are Conditional Uses that must be approved by the City Planning Commission; the City Planning Commission has not approved the uses. 3. Section 349.07 which states that accessory off-street parking spaces be provided with wheel or bumper guards; and 4. Section 349.07 © which states that a driveway used to provide accessibility to accessory offstreet parking spaces shall be so located and arrange to minimize traffic congestion; there is no outlet for proposed one-way traffic. 5. Section 352.04 which states that a landscape plan is required; and no landscaping plan is proposed.(Filed August 2, 2018) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 28, 20186 yr From their website: "Hemingway Development and its partners will be commencing construction of Church + State, a dynamic, mixed-use development, in the first quarter 2018." Anybody know what the delay is? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
August 28, 20186 yr From their website: "Hemingway Development and its partners will be commencing construction of Church + State, a dynamic, mixed-use development, in the first quarter 2018." Anybody know what the delay is? This will be starting next month
August 28, 20186 yr From their website: "Hemingway Development and its partners will be commencing construction of Church + State, a dynamic, mixed-use development, in the first quarter 2018." Anybody know what the delay is? The city it lies in.
August 28, 20186 yr From their website: "Hemingway Development and its partners will be commencing construction of Church + State, a dynamic, mixed-use development, in the first quarter 2018." Anybody know what the delay is? The city it lies in. No.
August 28, 20186 yr From their website: "Hemingway Development and its partners will be commencing construction of Church + State, a dynamic, mixed-use development, in the first quarter 2018." Anybody know what the delay is? The city it lies in. Not a city delay here. City approvals are all done.
August 28, 20186 yr When they received the county funding, they said their financing would close and construction would begin in September
August 28, 20186 yr ^Lol. My "city it lies in" comment was a quip, not being serious. My apologies. We need to create a sarcasm font for this forum.
August 28, 20186 yr There's an emoticon for it.... ;) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 1, 20186 yr @KateWarrenCLE 16h16 hours ago Planet Fitness opened in Ohio City today! Unique was the first place I really ever thrifted and it’s a bit weird to see it all decked out in PF equipment but I’m excited to work out at this gym! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 7, 20186 yr Cuyahoga County opens new archive location https://articles.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/09/cuyahoga_county_opens_new_arch.amp Anyone noticed if the project converting the old county archives to supportive housing has gotten under way?
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