Love the new design/renderings! 

So the apartment building and office building each are two stories shorter? I hope they don't get much shorter than that. In looking for some more (larger) renderings, I noticed that this project is still not on Harbor Bay's website.

 

Edited January 16, 20196 yr by KJP

^Yeah, but it's actually grown in usable space. The retail went from 46ksf to 75ksf, and the office component grew from 137k to 150k. The number of units and parking spaces will remain the same.

Edited January 16, 20196 yr by Clefan98

I'm usually a guy that says built it as tall as you can....

 

But I think buildings at that height do more honor to the architectural heritage of the neighborhood and than a 15-20 story building would - just my opinion.

 

Also, I love the renderings, wow. 

Man I really love all the glass. I hope that component stays through the final design. Also Dan Whalen at one point hinted at Timber construction,  I wonder if that is still in play.?Which could explain the shorter buildings.

 

Do we know if they have any potential tenants lined up for the office portion?  In my mind 175,000 square feet is a lot of space in Cleveland for a speculative building, especially in a neighborhood  that is not considered a primary office market.  Could the lack of at least one major tenant affect financing and possibly delay the optimistic ground breaking date suggested in the article?

Edited January 16, 20196 yr by Htsguy

Wow I love this. The big glass windows in the office building rendering remind me of some of the big warehouses on Superior. 

I like the renderings and the overall plan. But, always be wary of renderings of Glass buildings. They always ending up looking much more opaque in real life than they do in renderings. 

Full speed ahead!

Man, if I were the CEO in charge of any company looking to locate in NEO, this would absolutely be at the top of my list. The proposal reminds me of some of the tech office space cropping up all over Kendall Square in Cambridge - specifically, the Kendall Center rooftop garden. Its a public garden directly connected to the Google office there, and a great space (having entered from both the Google office and public entrance). 

 

It looks like the design is headed in a similar direction, but I sincerely hope the developers consider making the third story open space similarly public and lush with greenery. The views of the City would be fantastic!

Edited January 17, 20196 yr by ASP1984

I love it too. I hope it get built as shown.

I have a feeling they already have a commercial tenant lined up for this project..

14 hours ago, TPH2 said:

I like the renderings and the overall plan. But, always be wary of renderings of Glass buildings. They always ending up looking much more opaque in real life than they do in renderings. 

 

Can't agree with this enough. The tint and reflectiveness of the glass, the interior window treatments, and the exact extent to which the window glass is inset within the facade grid, will make or break this kind of facade, and are completely unknowable from the marketing rendering.  

Market Square has to be one of the most appealing projects in town.  Maybe their success will build a fire under the long-aborning Duck Island project on the east side of the Rapid Station.

35 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Market Square has to be one of the most appealing projects in town.  Maybe their success will build a fire under the long-aborning Duck Island project on the east side of the Rapid Station.

 

No need to. The developer seeking to build there would love to move forward on it.

Also, let's not forget, this project would likely require two cranes.

 

So a building permit for demolition is pending for 2011, 2015  W 25th. for about 23k sq ft. (aka Market Plaza). Under the name Ohio City Legacy LLC. These guys are not wasting any time.

Edited January 18, 20196 yr by freethink

Rumor has it, a large contingent of Chicagoans (Ohio City Legacy LLC) were at Bakersfield tonight partying. Probably feeling out the local vibrations for a night or two after closing on the sale of the property.

Question for those in the development and construction industries.  Is it common or rare to begin drafting construction drawings before design review is completed?

 

The reason I ask is that I was at a recent design review hearing for Top of the Hill in Cleveland Heights and they indicated they would not even begin preparing actual construction drawings, apparently an eight or nine month process for that firm, until the final design was approved (even though the site planning and final concept is pretty much done).

 

I certainly would be thrilled it this project began by the end of the 2019 but wonder if that is possible given where they are at in the design review process.  I was hoping some of the arch. design work could move forward even without final design approval.

On 1/16/2019 at 4:54 PM, freethink said:

Man I really love all the glass. I hope that component stays through the final design. Also Dan Whalen at one point hinted at Timber construction,  I wonder if that is still in play.?Which could explain the shorter buildings.

 

Timber would be a great look in that neighborhood.

 

Regarding 'taller' timber:  https://theweek.com/articles/816653/how-build-skyscraper-wood?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits

Call me a traditionalist, but I don't know about these new, high-tech building materials.  I mean wood?  What's next- sod towers?

 

(Just kidding- I think it would be awesome)

Well I am not sure how we missed this, but the rumor that the Market Plaza will be Timber construction is apparently true. I could not be more stoked about that. A truly progressive project. Wow with this project, The Quarter, Church and State, Dexter Place, The Brickman site, Irishtown Bend, Metrohealth Campus and dozens of other smaller projects, Ohio City is about to change before our eyes.

 

And the most unique thing about it all — both buildings will be constructed out of wood.

“We’re building both these buildings out of mass timber, which is a new product type for Cleveland, not particularly new for other parts of the world, it’s heavily used in Canada and Europe,” Whalen said, adding that they are especially drawn to the sustainability of using timber. 

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/plans-revealed-for-ohio-city-plaza-near-west-side-market

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, freethink said:

Well I am not sure how we missed this, but the rumor that the Market Plaza will be Timber construction is apparently true. I could not be more stoked about that. A truly progressive project. Wow with this project, The Quarter, Church and State, Dexter Place, The Brickman site, Irishtown Bend, Metrohealth Campus and dozens of other smaller projects, Ohio City is about to change before our eyes.

 

And the most unique thing about it all — both buildings will be constructed out of wood.

“We’re building both these buildings out of mass timber, which is a new product type for Cleveland, not particularly new for other parts of the world, it’s heavily used in Canada and Europe,” Whalen said, adding that they are especially drawn to the sustainability of using timber. 

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/plans-revealed-for-ohio-city-plaza-near-west-side-market

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can someone please post a photo of a large building, such as a sizable apartment house, with use of this material?  I can't picture a multu-story building of "mass timber."

13 minutes ago, lafont said:

Can someone please post a photo of a large building, such as a sizable apartment house, with use of this material?  I can't picture a multi-story building of "mass timber."

Never mind; I just Googled "mass timber" and therw they were!  Striking!

Edited January 19, 20196 yr by lafont

I hope they leave some of the timber  exposed as an architectural detail.

OCI director Tom McNair has some good examples on his twitter.

T3 Building of timber construction in Minneapolis:

 

 

Cool to read about the benefits of Mass Timber - https://www.thinkwood.com/news/4-things-to-know-about-mass-timber

 

Reminds me of what Redhouse Architecture in Ohio City is trying to do with creating building materials out of mushrooms and construction debris. Given the pilot they planned to roll out in the area, anyone know how that's going?

Edited January 21, 20196 yr by ASP1984

 

There are new windows in at the former hardware store on Bridge and 47th.  I assume it’s still going to be an African grocery store?    They’ve been slowly chugging along on the rehab.  

 

Also, across the street, there is now a Knez sign in front of the closed Santiago auto repair.  I hope it’s townhomes instead of just a couple single family homes.  Has anyone seen plans for it?

Does anyone know the plans for the lot in Duck Island on Abbey between 19th and 20th?  I saw that it was rezoned to retail, but haven't heard any development plans since.

Might be in here...

 

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

Might be in here...

 

 

Thanks!  Didn't realize it had its own thread.  Seems like it will eventually be mixed use, but still unplanned.

I was at the broker event 2 weeks ago for Market Square when Harbor Bay gave a detailed presentation on the project.  They are pushing to go as high as possible with the mass-timber framing but it's a very new concept and local building departments need education on how to evaluate it's structural calcs.  

 

Regardless, I think it's the most exciting project I've seen in the city for sometime, probably since the Snavely development at the Quarter.  Ironically Dan Whalen of Harbor Bay used to work for Snavely...

So allow me, if I will, to air some of my grievances here, via narrative:

 

1. October, 2018 - my fiance and I close on our home in Ohio City.

 

2. November, 2018 - we begin significant renovations on our home. At this point, I am under a lease in another area of Ohio City, which I break off on November 14 - I forfeit my $900 security deposit, and have the intention on living at my parents in the suburbs until we have heat, water, and I can put a mattress on the ground to sleep on. My fiance leases out her apartment and moves back to her parents, with the intention of staying at our house 3-4 nights a week to make the commute easier. Later that month, I am told that I cannot live in the home until we have a temporary occupancy permit. 

 

3. December, 2018 - my contractor has the city inspectors come out to check everything. In our hallway bathroom upstairs, we decided to keep a vanity installed by the previous owners, it was ugly - but fine and functional and would save us money. However, city inspectors tell my contractor that there can be no occupancy permit issued until we get a new vanity in the hallways bathroom - reason: the vanity is 14" from the toilet, and city code requires the vanity to be 16" from the toilet. My fiance and I have to use some of our additional money to go out and buy a new vanity, all in all costing us upwards of $700, due to the special size required. The city inspectors tell my contractor that they will not be available again until after the new year (this was about December 10-12). Beyond that, I was told that I needed to get a range hood in the kitchen with certain specifications so I'd be compliant with city code in a structure as old as mine. After that was installed, my contractor was forced to take down the dry wall on the ceiling AGAIN, so the inspector could "double check."

 

4. January, 2019 - city inspectors show up to my home and won't do the plumbing inspection until our plumbers fill up our bath tub and two shower pans with water and show that it can hold for twenty-four hours. Still no occupancy permit. 

 

I cannot tell you how frustrated I am with the city and I feel like I have to be a microcosm of the frustrations of builders all over this town. We bought our house on a street that is far from being fully gentrified - the home next to us is COMPLETELY VACANT, with rodents sometimes ending up in our yard due to the decrepit shed they all live in. I called Kerry McCormick, my councilman,  who by the way is a great guy and called me almost immediately after I reached out, which is a bright spot in this story, and he said he would do what he could to help with the rodent issue, and I definitely believe him. 

 

But here I am, I broke off my lease in November expecting to be at my parents for two weeks, the house next to me is vacant, I am making payments on the mortgage of a house I'm legally not allowed to occupy. Now I am being told that the inspector is going to search the entirety of my home to ensure that it doesn't look like I have moved in. Problem is, it does look like I have moved in - I have nearly all of my stuff there, my suits hung up, my room set up, my TV hooked up, my living room furniture in, my plates in the cabinets, water and apples in the fridge, all in preparation for moving in as soon as I have the permit. 

 

So, while some of the homes around me are in near disrepair, being fully occupied, I cannot stay the night at mine legally. I am worried that the inspector might turn into Paul Blart Mall Cop and try to say that I'm living there, which will find me with another cost for a home in which I am not yet allowed to live. My wedding is in a little over three weeks and I am at my wits end with the city. I am fully intending to go to a city council meeting after the wedding to voice my displeasure with this entire process - though I understand council does not have direct interactions with the Building Department, I think a lot of this needs to get aired out. 

 

Has anyone else faced troubles like this? 

 

 

I don't want to veer too far off topic with a response, so PM me if you want, but that whole saga sounds pretty atypical. It could be that inspectors are just more intense in a higher-profile area. Has it been the same inspector the whole time?

 I had to do a large amount of work to my house as well and I don't think they really even checked much before granting me the permit. I never actually met any inspectors from the city as the contractor covered that while I was at work, but it was pretty much an in-and-out deal as I understand it. Also I definitely moved in before everything was done and the old vanity most definitely had black mold under it.

 

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

FEBRUARY 4, 2019

9:30 Calendar No. 19-008: 2512 Church Ave. Ward 3 Kerry McCormack 16 Notices Schmaltz Church Street Holdings, owner, proposes to establish use as a restaurant in a D3 Local Retail Business District. The owner appeals for relief from the strict application of Section 349.04(f) which states that 11 parking spaces are required based on the number of employees and the area dedicated to patron use, but no parking is proposed. (Filed January 9, 2019)

34 minutes ago, KJP said:

Board of Zoning Appeals

FEBRUARY 4, 2019

9:30 Calendar No. 19-008: 2512 Church Ave. Ward 3 Kerry McCormack 16 Notices Schmaltz Church Street Holdings, owner, proposes to establish use as a restaurant in a D3 Local Retail Business District. The owner appeals for relief from the strict application of Section 349.04(f) which states that 11 parking spaces are required based on the number of employees and the area dedicated to patron use, but no parking is proposed. (Filed January 9, 2019)

 

According to last night’s Franklin-Clinton Block Club meeting, it’s to be Gus’s fried chicken.

 

Apparently the code requires 16 parking spaces here, which is crazy ?

Edited January 29, 20196 yr by Enginerd
Correction

Zoning code changes continue to happen incrementally but this parking requirement is pretty ridiculous. Luckily we have an accommodating Board of Zoning Appeals. Without it you wouldn’t see 80% of the development we have here.

On 1/20/2019 at 8:58 PM, ASP1984 said:

Cool to read about the benefits of Mass Timber - https://www.thinkwood.com/news/4-things-to-know-about-mass-timber

 

Reminds me of what Redhouse Architecture in Ohio City is trying to do with creating building materials out of mushrooms and construction debris. Given the pilot they planned to roll out in the area, anyone know how that's going?

The large Centric Apartments complex, just to the west of Little Italy,  has some walls of wood with grain showing.  At least that's what they looks like.

Edited January 30, 20196 yr by lafont

I was talking with @KJP about this, but it's noteworthy that there is now large, earthmoving equipment leveling land and clearing debris on W. 48th St. between Detroit and Franklin. Appears as if they are clearing their space to begin the "peninsula" development of new townhomes right there. Very exciting. 

Do we have any renderings of these? 

50 minutes ago, Cleveland said:

Do we have any renderings of these? 

 

I just looked and couldn't find them anywhere. @KJP has been a whiz finding info about this project, so I'd be willing to bet he has them or knows where to look

I was able to find this though...

 

https://www.progressiveurban.com/shared/fs/0343/company/Civic Builders/West 48th Street/1432 West 48th Standard Features 7-18-17.pdf

 

 

Looks like they active links for all of their current projects except 1432 West 48th and their Tremont project at 2178 West 6th. Hopefully they will have some images up soon.

here's another link to the w.45th street project. 

 

https://www.progressiveurban.com/shared/fs/0343/company/Civic Builders/West 48th Street/1432 W48 Marketing Package Feb 2018.pdf

 

 

Looks like a super cool project. Love that stealth density.

I keep forgetting the properties behind those fronting West 48th and 50th are the targets for two separate developers....

 

 

So a building permit for 2554 W 25th has posted, this is an empty lot just down the street from Porco. It lists a 60k sq ft building from Columbo Builders. The only thing I could find was from a couple of years ago. It looks like it will be the replacement site for Front Steps which is currently located on the proposed Irishtown Bend property. Here is a link to a PDF of the plan. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2017/PermanentSupportiveHousing/17-0087-StJosephsCommons.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjIk47X-JbgAhWN7Z8KHaUEAqkQFjAHegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1dSGOvDUtr09cTADEcuRAQ&cshid=1548900709178

Edited January 31, 20196 yr by freethink