Yes, something functional/convenient for residents.

 

What about general service type stuff .. like a laundromat or something. Would that work in the area?

 

I'm not really sure. I think most people in the area have laundry in their homes or apartments already.. and from what I can tell, the residents would like some kind of meth-lab or brothel operating in the storefront.

 

What about general service type stuff .. like a laundromat or something. Would that work in the area?

 

I'm not really sure. I think most people in the area have laundry in their homes or apartments already.. and from what I can tell, the residents would like some kind of meth-lab or brothel operating in the storefront.

 

That seems sort of classist.  If you feel that way, then you should be a catalyst for change.

sheesh.. you need a sense of humor. I was speaking more towards the homeless guys who hang out in front of the building, and the pimp and his lady who walk the street from 50th to 38th.

 

I think we are trying to be that change by investing the neighborhood and putting close to half a million into improvements into an older building on Lorain road, a road that isn't exactly tee'd up and ready to go like other areas. If I couldn't laugh at some of the problems in the area, I'd probably have to cry, and for that matter simply not bother, because the hurdles are very real, very challenging and I can tell you that wanting to put your money into it with any kind of long vision isn't always palatable.

 

I apologize if it feels classist to you.

Can't wait to see the finished building, weepinwillow. Great work.

 

As you noted, this section of Lorain is not entirely consumer-ready; whatever tenant you get for that space would have to be a magnet in its own right, not something that people tend to buy incidentally when visiting something else.

 

As for use ... if you have difficulty securing a traditional retail tenant, me and another forumer were just discussing the lack of great yoga options on the Near West Side. I believe yoga was discontinued at Lemko Hall in Tremont, and I think No Place Like Ohm concentrates pretty exclusively now on naked yoga ( :-o). It seems like most advanced yoga classes are only offered in the suburbs, and with the influx of hipsters, it seems a natural fit. That being said, one has to wonder why it was discontinued in Tremont ... I think fitness stuff in general is sadly lacking in Ohio City, so any kind of limited-service facility of that type would be a great addition to the neighorhood.

 

I think another great use would be something arts-based. Maybe like the West Side's version of Passport Project, where people can come in for different dance classes, etc. Perhaps partner with your neighbor MorrisonDance (Lorain and 42nd). Even if not a partnership of this size, I definitely think MorrisonDance is a great anchor right around the corner from you, so engaging them in some way would be great.

 

Similarly, gallery spaces tend to be great draws, but it's sometimes hard for one to stand on its own without other similar places nearby. I constantly field calls from artists looking for temporary space to launch their own shows, so you could probably take applications from artists and have them take on the sapce for a month, then another artist the next month, etc. Probably wouldn't get rich doing that, but it's a great way to occupy the space until you get a more traditional tenant, and each artist would bring in their own respective groupies, so that would be some nice exposure.

 

Given the history of the space, some kind of Friday / Saturday night performing arts use would be great. Maybe a Parrish Hall model? It was such a great addition to Gordon Square, and people are still talking about it.

 

I also would love to see, whatever the use, just some documentation of what you guys did ... some historic pics of the building, some of the renovation and just some inspiring language about how Clevelanders should be stepping up to the challenge that you guys did.

 

Generally, I think anything that would be community-oriented, like one of the city's tool and home repair centers or a CityFresh stop, would be great.

Cool Cleveland did a little story on our Lorain project..

 

http://www.coolcleveland.com/index.php?n=Main.Lee09

 

Family Affair

by Lee Chilcote

 

Michael Fleming first noticed the solid brick façade and big, storefront windows of the former Oddfellows Hall on Lorain Avenue when he was training for a marathon. Wedged between a storefront church and a biker shop, the building seemed like a diamond in the rough.

 

“I was running one day, and the building jumped out at me,” says Fleming. “Lorain may be shabby and a bit down-at-the-heels, but it’s a very pretty street, and it’s affordable.”

 

Fleming saw that the property was for sale, and one day he ventured inside. The first thing he saw was the mahogany bar, covered in dust. That’s when he fell in love.

 

“I’ve always wanted to live above a bar,” says Fleming, who worked as a chef in Boston and Miami before moving back to Cleveland, his hometown, to pursue development in 2005.

 

Last year, Fleming bought the Ohio City building for $150,000 with his dad, his mom and his brother. The family members formed Solo Development LLC to invest in Cleveland real estate. They plan to renovate the first floor storefront and turn the upper two stories into loft apartments. Michael and his brother David will move into two of the apartments, and rent out the third.

 

“We are making an investment in the center of Cleveland,” says Ken Fleming, Michael's father. “Since we purchased the building, we’ve seen other new developments sprout along Lorain.”

 

Ken Fleming cited over $16 million in investment on Lorain Avenue, including such projects as the St. Ignatius Performing Arts Facility, Providence House Campus expansion, the D.H. Ellison Company, the Cleveland Environmental Center, and the United Office Building.

 

The Flemings’ development was financed by Western Reserve Bank in Brecksville, in partnership with Cleveland Action to Support Housing (CASH), a non-profit whose mission is to provide low-interest loans to help spur reinvestment in Cleveland neighborhoods.

 

“We helped to finance the project at a reduced interest rate,” says Marcia Nolan, Executive Director of CASH. “We made deposits with Western Reserve Bank, and this enabled the borrower to save money.” She added, “Our work helps to make projects like this feasible.”

 

The developers will spend an additional $275,000 to create apartments in the building. The units will have a contemporary, loft-like feel, and will include such amenities as new kitchens and baths, in-suite laundry, and open floor plans. The third floor – which was originally used as a ballroom in its heyday, and has fourteen foot ceilings – is being transformed into a two bedroom, loft apartment. Michael plans to move into the apartment when it’s finished.

 

Renovating the building has turned into a family project. “My dad, my brother and I came down on Saturday mornings to tear apart the old plaster and lath from the walls and ceiling,” says Michael Fleming. “We spent about four months doing that before hiring a crew.”

 

During the redevelopment, the developers have coped with many challenges, including moving walls and reconfiguring electrical and plumbing systems. Michael is determined to restore the cove ceilings in the old ballroom, which were badly damaged by a leaky roof.

 

“Rehab is like peeling off layers of an onion,” Michael says with a laugh. “It’s a good learning experience.”

 

The Oddfellows building, which was built in 1870, has a rich, varied history. Over the years, it has housed the Hungarian Men’s Singing Society, the Communist Party of Northeast Ohio, and a hardcore music club called “Speak in Tongues,” among others.

 

Now that his rehab project is in full swing, Michael has fallen out of love with the building. Yet he still believes that the investment in Lorain Avenue will pay off over time. “One of the reasons I moved back to Cleveland is because it is an affordable place for a young person to invest, and it has great, historic buildings,” he says. “There’s so much opportunity here.”

 

Michael is already planning future dinner parties in his new home, and he has even talked about starting his own restaurant on the first floor. At the moment, however, refinishing the mahogany bar will have to wait. He’s got a lot of work to do before moving day.

 

Editors Note: Lee Chilcote is a writer in Cleveland who works for Progressive Urban Real Estate (PURE), which brokered the initial sale of the building to the developers. PURE did have any ownership stake in this building at any time. The former Oddfellows Hall building is located at 4309 Lorain Avenue.

 

 

 

GREAT Article.

I was wondering if that was you!  Yes, nice story..

Yay! I loved that article (although you were sadly absent!). I rode by the building the other day ... wow. What an amazing space. You guys are fighting the good fight for real.

I was wondering if that was you!  Yes, nice story..

 

Ha! It's me.

I have enjoyed following your story on the renovation. Maybe you can give us tour some time.  I concur a brothel would do a bang up business there now, but less so as time goes by thanks to your hard work!

 

I love the history of the building. That kind of lineage is what makes the area so interesting

One thing I didn't get: it said you had "fallen out of love with the building."  Is that written correctly?

One thing I didn't get: it said you had "fallen out of love with the building." Is that written correctly?

 

It's because the guy who wrote the article didn't get that Michael did not want it printed that he "had fallen in love with the building" as it's the 1st rule of real estate... so Mike pressed on that issue.

I can't find the Ohio City thread, but this is close enough.  Scaffolding has been constructed around the perimeter of the building at the NE corner of Market Avenue & West 26th, and they look to be renovating the upper floors (Great Lakes Brewing Company's nwe gift shop is located on the first floor.  Not sure what will be housed in the building, but it would be pretty cool to live in the unit with the corner tower.  (This is an older folder that does not show the scaffolding).

Ohio City Burrito (http://ohiocityburrito.com/) is now open on West 25th next to Old Angle, where Dish Global Deli used to be.  I stopped in last weekend and they were having a soft opening with friends and family but still let me buy a burrito. 

 

It's very similar to Chipotle.  I think I still like Chipotle better, but if you want to "shop local", this is the place to get your burrito fix.

Actually the new burrito place is in the former Monestary space.

I can't find the Ohio City thread, but this is close enough. Scaffolding has been constructed around the perimeter of the building at the NE corner of Market Avenue & West 26th, and they look to be renovating the upper floors (Great Lakes Brewing Company's nwe gift shop is located on the first floor. Not sure what will be housed in the building, but it would be pretty cool to live in the unit with the corner tower. (This is an older folder that does not show the scaffolding).

 

Not positive but I think on the brewery tour they told us there will be offices above the souvenir shop.

Sign on Dragonfly Lounge said "Opening Oct. 2009" (might have been a specific date but I was running errands and didn't have time to confirm).

Remember the predictions that Steelyard Commons would destroy W. 25th

 

For some of the board vets, I pulled this gem out.  I am happy to report that Steelyard with the Walmart did not turn W.25th into ghost town

 

by the way, was DaninDC the same guy as 327?

 

Just to add me .02, The Euclid Corridor project is still at least two years from completion. So we have yet to see what implications positive or negative it will have, thugh it looks as if it will have a positive impact even though its not a subway or light rail.

 

I understand.  This is a very frustrating topic for me.  Building a city isn't supposed to be hard--it's what came naturally for thousands of years.  You build a variety of housing types, within walking distance of retail, offices, and transit stops.  That's it.  Anything else is overkill, and probably going to have unintended consequences as a result.

 

For example, does anyone NOT think Wal Mart poses a challenge to local stores like Dave's Supermarkets, which already exist in underserved and poor neighborhoods?  What advantage does this "power center" give Cleveland over the municipalities that have sucked Cleveland dry?  Doesn't it just make Cleveland into another automobile-dominated suburb?

 

Until Cleveland stops looking for the magic bullet and focuses exclusively on building honest-to-God neighborhoods, its efforts are doomed to utter failure.  There are good examples of cities out there--Cleveland just likes to emulate the bad ones. 

327 is most certainly not DaninDC!  327 has some redeeming qualities.  :wink:

Glad to hear about the burrito shop.  What is the one type of person who hangs out on public square?

I am so tired of the Moda fear tactics that continue on West 25th Street.  The place has been closed for almost 4 years.  As a neighborhood resident, I'm quite sure the neighborhood's negative attitude is the reason why this place is still empty.  As great as Ohio City is (I've lived here for 4+ years), its residents are quite annoying at times.

^And the Moda was a GREAT space.  Now that you mention it, it is kinda surprising that the space has not been reused yet.

^Well as w28th said, there has been interest and at least 2 concrete proposals (1 for a gay bar) that were struck down by the neighborhood....  They are definately "particular" about what kind of business they will support going in there, since they have a pretty bad taste in their mouths due to how MODA ended up. 

^They don't want clubs. While some proposals have seemed ok, they are fearful of the Moda effect. That being: a nice club goes in, is successfull. It loses clients and then starts to market to a rowdier crowd. Think Flats.    *They=Jay/Bridge Block Club.

I don't think they have to worry about anything too unsavory going into Moda. The city loves to assist in dumping undesirable businesses in the flats. I still wish that gym had gone in. I think it would have been one of many businesses perfect for the space. The Garage sushi place seems to coming along. I am looking forward to it (if it is good of course).

 

 

^The gym decided to go into the 668 building.

 

Besides one strip club, I don't know what you are talking about regarding the Flats.

 

Regarding the sushi place, I've gathered that the focus will be put on the martinis for the first few months (with sushi available). If successful, the sushi will be made on site. Until then, the sushi will be brought in.

 

Look for the Bier Markt owner to start work on the old Middle Eastern Foods location soon. It will be renovated and expanded. Additionally, the parking lot behind the WSM will have security and be open to patrons after Market hours.

 

In about a year, the W25/Lorain corridor may have ambassadors similar to the DCA's in downtown. There is a lot of talk regarding a BID going on right now.

 

 

^The gym decided to go into the 668 building.

 

Besides one strip club, I don't know what you are talking about regarding the Flats.

 

Regarding the sushi place, I've gathered that the focus will be put on the martinis for the first few months (with sushi available). If successful, the sushi will be made on site. Until then, the sushi will be brought in.

 

Look for the Bier Markt owner to start work on the old Middle Eastern Foods location soon. It will be renovated and expanded. Additionally, the parking lot behind the WSM will have security and be open to patrons after Market hours.

 

In about a year, the W25/Lorain corridor may have ambassadors similar to the DCA's in downtown. There is a lot of talk regarding a BID going on right now.

 

 

 

Funny we were working on the Ohio City BID in 96' which alot of the leg work was done by the owner of Beir Market and then me....  Anyway I think then, there wasnt enough active ownership in the neighborhood to pass it.(absentee landlords and such)  Plus the concept was pretty new to Cleveland at the time.

 

And now that Sam is an active property owner, it should be easier. 

I feel that it is going to take a while to fill Moda. It is set up for a club, but the neighborhood will not let it become one. It is hard to find a use for that sort of space. It will probably never be a theater again.

The problem is the owners (Rialto Corp., owned in turn by Jason A. Wein, 38, of Auburn Township in Geauga County and Zvonko P. Cirjak, 58, of Cleveland) want a premium for the Rialto Theater (old Moda). The place is valued at $200,000 but they wanted several times that (I can't remember the specific asking price). If that's not enough of a crime, these guys were looking the other way while Moda raged on uncontrollably -- including Moda's owner laundering drug trafficking money.

 

The only businesses that can usually afford the ridiculous price asked by Wien and Cirjak are high-volume nightclubs. Thus the only two prospective users for it were the owners of Heaven & Earth (Mack Danzey and Eric Buckner), and then clubster Jason Beudert who first said he was connected with Vista Hospitality & Logistics Group and then said he wasn't.

 

I feel bad for the neighborhood -- and for guy who wanted to move his music magazine's offices and some recording studios for new bands into the Rialto. But he couldn't afford the owners' ridiculous asking price.

 

And so the Rialto Theater will remain vacant, at least until the Wien and Cirjak get a dose of reality, or bankruptcy. But neither will probably ever happen.....

The problem is the owners (Rialto Corp., owned in turn by Jason A. Wein, 38, of Auburn Township in Geauga County and Zvonko P. Cirjak, 58, of Cleveland) want a premium for the Rialto Theater (old Moda). The place is valued at $200,000 but they wanted several times that (I can't remember the specific asking price). If that's not enough of a crime, these guys were looking the other way while Moda raged on uncontrollably -- including Moda's owner laundering drug trafficking money.

 

The only businesses that can usually afford the ridiculous price asked by Wien and Cirjak are high-volume nightclubs. Thus the only two prospective users for it were the owners of Heaven & Earth (Mack Danzey and Eric Buckner), and then clubster Jason Beudert who first said he was connected with Vista Hospitality & Logistics Group and then said he wasn't.

 

I feel bad for the neighborhood -- and for guy who wanted to move his music magazine's offices and some recording studios for new bands into the Rialto. But he couldn't afford the owners' ridiculous asking price.

 

And so the Rialto Theater will remain vacant, at least until the Wien and Cirjak get a dose of reality, or bankruptcy. But neither will probably ever happen.....

 

That's some great journalism right there!  Very informative post...

Thanks! I covered that story for several years, but most of my articles are no longer available on the web. And, of course, the information in those articles is no longer available here on UO due to the selfishness of our conglomerate media. I fear for the future.

 

Folks, this is a development thread. Discuss projects here. Discussions of quality of life and nuisance issues like bums hanging out in parks and the like is for another thread.

 

In fact I created one from the inappropriate posts at this thread, posted at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,20880.0.html

 

There is also the Cleveland Homeless thread, at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12929.0.html

 

As always, your thoughtful, appropriately placed posts are appreciated.

Cleveland's West 25th Street getting boost with new clubs, reopenings

 

http://www.cleveland.com/goingout/index.ssf/2009/10/clevelands_west_25th_street_ge.html

 

 

Dragonfly sounds like it could be something interesting and different.

I'm glad to see Dragonfly, and I like the upscale (sounding) nature of it.  However, I miss City Buddah there, and the idea of creating a diversified retail/restaurant corridor on W. 25th, rather than the club-heavy districts we have.  I, too, have noticed Bier Markt's evening evolution into a Flats-ish bar... I wish there was a Walgreen's in a revamped, more curb-friendly Market Plaza.... I do like the fact of the WSM, of course, and Dave's around the corner and Horizonal Books in the 'BS on 25th's' old location... it's getting there.

^ Yes, I miss the Buddha too. The Warehouse Dist, and maybe even 4th is evolving into just another Flats thing "part two" -- not appealing enough for the diverse and broader demographic needed to sustain a fully functional neighborhood. I too, agree with the retail mix but would like to keep the clone chains at a minimum. There is a Walgreen's/CVS/and Rite Aid type thing practically on every major corner these days. In Youngstown, they built so many that a few closed because of the cannibalization thing, while totally undermining the independent pharmacy jobs. I prefer something more locally owned or independent store scene on such an historic area. Make it really different from all the rest. Some good things that can blend in nicely with a 25th scene might be a small convenience style hardware store...a bit of a smaller higher end grocer that does not sell only rot-gut booze or lottery, maybe even a nice shoe store, special bakery, or more gallery type things.  Basically, establishments that are more functional for residents too..and not just the 'out-on-the town' crowd.

I'm glad to see Dragonfly, and I like the upscale (sounding) nature of it.  However, I miss City Buddah there, and the idea of creating a diversified retail/restaurant corridor on W. 25th, rather than the club-heavy districts we have.  I, too, have noticed Bier Markt's evening evolution into a Flats-ish bar... I wish there was a Walgreen's in a revamped, more curb-friendly Market Plaza.... I do like the fact of the WSM, of course, and Dave's around the corner and Horizonal Books in the 'BS on 25th's' old location... it's getting there.

 

That's a big problem in a lot of neighborhoods, IMHO.  The City is now pretty decently endowed with good restaurant/nightlife strips (Tremont, W6th, E4th, Shaker Square, W25th, maybe Gordon Square and upper Euclid), but we're still losing the battle for balanced neighborhood storefront retail.  As excited as I was to read about the new Dante in Tremont, for example, it's not a great sign that a bank branch moved out.  So yes, Dragonfly is exciting, but I would have been just as excited if it were a dry cleaner, 2x excited for a full service drug store with late hours, 4 x as excited if this was going to be a hardware store and 5 x as excited if a large kitchenware store.  Ah, dare to dream.

^ That's just what I feel as well. When you mention Dante's, do you mean the bank moved out that originally occupied that space..OR, the other one down the street? They didn't move, did they?

 

But yes, making it more functional for daily life in the neighborhood for the residents. I don't know if this would work, but I think W.25th might benefit from a small hotel like The Park Hotel in Warren, in an historic building... Or not?

^I'm sure others can speak with more authority, but I believe there was a bank in the Dante space until recently.  As far as I know the other bank, in the 3-story flatiron space further NW (at Fairfield?) is still there.  So yes, there used to be 2 banks.

 

The fear is that SYC and Market Plaza have pretty much sucked up all the demand for neighborhood convenience retail, so for those who like true neighborhood main streets, the near west side might not measure up for a while.

Ok, I thought that's what you were referring to. Yes, SY sucked away the scene of which we speak, making it more auto friendly than pedestrian.

 

I don't think Steelyards is convenient at all in most cases. In terms of hardware for example... Unless I am building a house or doing a major job requiring a truck, I avoid a place like Home D. at any cost because...

 

1. Its hard to find help that actually knows what they are doing... 

 

2. You need a GPS system to navigate through the place and a bull horn to call for help.

 

3. The attitude of many of the workers stinks..

 

4. Too much choice is sometimes worse than not enough... making you spend more time hunting for something or getting sidetracked by some other impulsive buying lure...And...

 

5. If I need a basic thing like a light bulb, a power cord and strip, hinges, a small can of paint, a simple tool or brushes, standard plumbing fixture...or anything really quick and basic for home handyman things......to me, it is far more easier to use a small pedestrian friendly convenience style hardware store, than to deal with the nonsense. I can get in and out of something like that, on foot, far faster than I ever could going to the big box monstrosities. I have often found that they fail to carry some of the very basic things...  and sell a whole lot of nothing.

 

The hardware store at Coventry is a great example of what style I like for a neighborhood setting like 25th.

^I'm sure others can speak with more authority, but I believe there was a bank in the Dante space until recently. 

 

I believe it has been quit some time since there was a bank in that space.

 

In this case it is quite a plus since Dante Boccuzzi is a world class chef who moved back to Cleveland from NYC (Aureole) after working all over the world..  It will only add to Clevelands culinary reputation.

 

Ill take him and his restaurant anyday over an abandon bank (or even a dry cleaner).

I appreciate the need for balanced retail in Cleveland's neighborhoods as much as anyone, but please keep this thread about actual development on W. 25th St.  If you wish to discuss what makes for a nice neighborhood retail balance you are welcome to start a thread on that.

Old Brooklyn CDC is actively seeking funding to implement some of the recommendations in the TLCI study for the stretch of Pearl Road between Wildlife Way (the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo) and Broadview Road. 

 

At the annual meeting last week, Councilman Kelley said that one of the projects from the study or master plan would be implemented within the next year, but he was vague and I wouldn't know where to begin guessing.  Maybe someone else in the know from OB can offer some insights?

I'm not sure what he was completely in reference to - it may not have to do with the actual TLCI study - but in reference to the Master Plan.  It is almost certain that some streetscaping will be down at the Memphis/Fulton intersection to make it more visually appealing and pedestrian friendly.  I know the architect plans we looked at included elements that coordinated "wildlife" (the Zoo) into the design.

 

Paran has plans on compeltely renovating the shopping center as well - but not sure where they stand on that.  I think they may have it timed more to coincide with the opening of the Fulton Bridge. 

 

This would be my guess on what Kevin was referencing - i think the 25th corridor is farther off and requires some additional study before it goes active.

^I'm sure others can speak with more authority, but I believe there was a bank in the Dante space until recently. 

 

I believe it has been quit some time since there was a bank in that space.

 

In this case it is quite a plus since Dante Boccuzzi is a world class chef who moved back to Cleveland from NYC (Aureole) after working all over the world..  It will only add to Clevelands culinary reputation.

 

Ill take him and his restaurant anyday over an abandon bank (or even a dry cleaner).

 

Yeah and the "new" Aureole sucks!

At the annual meeting last week, Councilman Kelley said that one of the projects from the study or master plan would be implemented within the next year, but he was vague and I wouldn't know where to begin guessing. Maybe someone else in the know from OB can offer some insights?

 

Well, the NOACA BAC (Bicycle Advisory Council) recommended Bicycle Lanes on W. 25 for a 1/2 mile stretch near the Zoo.  And I do believe, that per  the TLCI study, bicycle lanes are being recommended for much of W. 25

^ Great news.  I received an email from someone in the neighborhood last week that witnessed someone getting hit while biking on Pearl across Wildlife Way. 

Building on 41st and Lorain (SW corner) has fencing around it and lots of new cement block.  I said if I ever won millions, I would buy it and turn it into a killer bar/restaurant.  Anyone know what is going on with this spot.  Other corners have Nick's dinner (and a stupid lot full of junky cars), old Hot Dog Inn and Bodnar's Funeral Home.

An architect is moving his offices there. I believe that he won't be taking up the entire building. the triangular piece of land on the corner will be a fancy bus stop.

The offices of D.H. Ellison Architect are moving there from the present location next to CPT on Detroit Ave.

 

I happen to live catty corner from where he is moving in. I believe there was an article about it in the Ohio City Argus neighborhood newspaper awhile back about the move, which is partially how I think I found out (can't remember if I knew before that or not).

 

The corner to be concerned about at that intersection is that the owner of Bodnar has been threatening to sell his property to put in a McDonald's at that location, basically as an F.U. to the neighborhood (the owner has actually said that, on the record) after they so strongly opposed his desire to put a crematorium in his funeral home. If you happen to subscribe to the Ohio City yahoo email group, all the drama over it can be found on there.

 

Hopefully Ellison's presence can help keep a fast food chain out of the area that there is no need for. The garbage on Lorain from the Wendy's down by St. Ig's is bad enough.