Same goes for those projects. If they're so nice, let Mayfield Heights have them. It isn't fair to concentrate the projects in Cleveland proper. Not fair for the city and not fair for CMHA residents, who deserve more than one housing choice. CMHA isn't a Cleveland housing agency, it's supposed to be county wide.

 

The problem is that Mayfield Heights (and most suburbs) don't have the public transportation to support poor individuals who have no cars. They need to be able to walk to Dave's and other social services. The suburbs don't provide that. It's a tough nut to crack.

 

But with all this talk of litter, what about the chicken bones. Every time I walk my dog over the Veterans Bridge, down West 25th and back over the Lorain Bridge, it's like a contest between me and her of who can find the chicken bone faster. Thanks, Linda's Superette.

 

Lots of busses on Mayfield road.

Lutheran hospital also holds back West 25th.  That doesn't make Lutheran a bad thing.  But its location is bad for the neighborhood and bad for the city.  Same goes for those projects.  If they're so nice, let Mayfield Heights have them.  It isn't fair to concentrate the projects in Cleveland proper.  Not fair for the city and not fair for CMHA residents, who deserve more than one housing choice.  CMHA isn't a Cleveland housing agency, it's supposed to be county wide.

First I agree public housing should be county wide. I would especially love the children to have exposure to different school districts and resources. Anyway...I love Lutheran. My chiropractor and general doc are located there. Spouse gets some services there as well and so do my clients so it is nice to be able to be familiar with the facility.  I used the ER once myself for food poisening from China and over all the experience was decent. When we lived on the eastside we went to the clinic and it was a royal pain in the ass with its colossal waiting time, poor customer service (except the actual docs) and parking costs. anyway..

Weird OC living story- Spouse had what turned out to be a bursting appendix...it was Friday night. Social service-y me said heck no not going to Metro with all its gun shots or Lutheran with all it mental health emergencies.Friday nights are HOT in social service issues btw...so I said for tonight we will be suburban...we went to fairview. sad. He got the worst service from er to post surgery with the exception of the surgeon who was excellent.  My hubby waited for nearly 12 hours in agony while Dv after Dv (domestic violence) poured in with stab and other wounds. So sorry I am a real buzz kill, but I love my Lutheran and think it is an asset...

my weekend is up in the air due to conflicting obligations- but I may be volunteering to help my neighbor for the night tour last minute, which means I will have day tour tickets, which means I will make sure to say hi ..and I seriously hope Sleuth will be on hand.

 

Private club? While it won't directly impact me, I am kind of scared given how things seem to be hotbeds for illegal activity -unbeknownst to the owner of the building in some cases.

^Interesting. Do you think having McNulty and some of the other more recent entrepreneurs in the area help?

 

Definitely.  McNulty actually was working on it before I was.  Being a property owner now himself as well as having quite the ability to influence others certainly will be a positive. 

How far down Lorain and Detroit (and Bridge, and the west bank) would this BID go?  If it includes all the commercial areas in Ohio City, maybe there's enough now to pull it off.

 

Well it would strictly be the commercial areas, of w. 25th and Lorain (and Market street).  Since it is determined by a certain percentage for passage, and it has to be contiguous, the determining factor will be the amount of support to where (you can manipulate where the lines are based on the most support). 

 

We were initially trying for everything east St. Ignatius to w. 25th, North on w 25th to Jay etc., but it was a little tougher on the edges.  Market would have been included since most of those owners (such as the Conways) were supportive. 

I love my Lutheran and think it is an asset...

 

No doubt Lutheran is an asset.  Same goes for Cleveland Clinic, but both create dead zones on their streets.  I think Lutheran's impact could be lessened if parking were handled differently there, i.e. no surface lots fronting 25th street.  Our "market district" abruptly ends 1/2 block north of Bridge.  The entire strip would benefit from extending it to Detroit, perhaps with Lutheran parking structures behind new mixed-use blocks.  There just isn't enough for critical mass as it stands now.  Think of the views these new east-facing blocks could have if Riverview weren't there! 

^^wasn't there a master plan proposal a while back with keeping Riverview, and putting storefronts in front of it??

^yeah, Goody Clancy did a master plan as part of the big Hope VI proposal that was scuttled because of that f'ing unstable hillside.  It would have been an amazing transformation of the northern stretch of W25th.  It was one of the most frustrating "so close" episodes we've had here in a while, IMHO. Made me a lot sadder than FEB.

 

Info about the plan:

 

http://www.goodyclancy.com/planning?categoryId=32&view=project&layout=image&projectid=70&image=1

http://www.telesiscorp.com/Projects/Riverview/2.jpg

 

 

I think Lutheran's impact could be lessened if parking were handled differently there, i.e. no surface lots fronting 25th street. Our "market district" abruptly ends 1/2 block north of Bridge. The entire strip would benefit from extending it to Detroit, perhaps with Lutheran parking structures behind new mixed-use blocks.

 

There's a lot more than just Lutheran Hospital preventing the strip from extending to Detroit...

...so I said for tonight we will be suburban...we went to fairview.

 

Actually, Fairview Hospital is in Cleveland.

I know, but it is like the suburbs to me.

 

I've always told my friends I wish I had the money to buy the "Riverview Apartments" from CMH and turn them into renovated non-government funded apartments. If that ever happened I can't imagine how much the area would take off.

 

CMHA & Riverview Tower property aren't going anywhere anytime soon.  They've already been offered plenty of money for that building, along with big $$$ to buy them out of the Lakeview Terrace complex.  The problem is always where to put all the people.  Riverview is actually a very clean well run building compared to many others.  It's getting new windows also in the next year or so, probably going to be red, instead of the faded orange shade.  As far as redeveloping it, you would never be able to do anything with it but what it is.  The building has a central corridor with tiny 1-BR apts on either side.  The walls are structural too, so I don't know how you could renovate it into anything else.  But I agree, it holds back Ohio City.  And the views are amazing from BOTH sides.

my weekend is up in the air due to conflicting obligations- but I may be volunteering to help my neighbor for the night tour last minute, which means I will have day tour tickets, which means I will make sure to say hi ..and I seriously hope Sleuth will be on hand.

 

Private club? While it won't directly impact me, I am kind of scared given how things seem to be hotbeds for illegal activity -unbeknownst to the owner of the building in some cases.

 

Ha! I meant private as in my brother and I would run it. I have relationships with oddball music acts outside of Cleveland and my brother is a chef, so we'd host small events.

ok cool. no outlaw motorcycle meth strip clubs.

CMHA & Riverview Tower property aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They've already been offered plenty of money for that building, along with big $$$ to buy them out of the Lakeview Terrace complex. The problem is always where to put all the people.

 

"Where to put the people" can't be that big of a problem, if CMHA has been offered an appropriate price for this prime waterfront land.  Most of the city's land is not prime waterfront land... so it's hard for me to believe that rebuilding the public housing capacity elsewhere would be cost prohibitive, given the potential sale proceeds.  It's not like this is Manhattan.  We have vacant land all over the place.  I have nothing against residents of the projects, I live across the street from some...but we gotta get the projects off our waterfront and out of our showpiece commercial districts.

^ I agree. Can you say that a hundred more times!

The question always is for major projects in Cleveland: do we have the "will" to move relocate the Riverview people.  We constantly make excuses like: where will they go?  when we know we can find somewhere... This case, like the Medical Mart, relocating the County Administration, a new aquarium, downtown retail/department store, building on Warehouse District surface parking lots, RTA rail expansion and so many others in this town, the question always comes down to: do we want it bad enough?.. and sadly, the answer just about always is emphatically: NO!!

We were on the Ohio City Home Tour this time round. Our hope is to be on the Saturday event as well next year, but some complications came up. Went well, many people seemed to like the space, though complained about the stairs (I don't get it, you are walking around looking at historic, turn of the century homes, people. There will be flights of stairs to climb).

 

Quite pleased with the event overall. N

 

Nobody minded my private outlaw motorcycle meth strip club on the first floor, either.

 

Snippet of home tour wandering around the 3rd floor of our project.

Very nice! Love the BJazz original design on the table :)

^I get most of your point, except for the medical mart one.

Anyone know where Athens is moving?  If it leaves the Market Square area, it would be a step backward for this market district brand...  Thankfully, looks like Hansa owns its building and parking lot, so maybe they'll stick around longer.

^I think they're moving to Parma, or somewhere near there...on Pearl somewhere, maybe?

^Thanks.  Bummer.  Penzy's is nice, but so far MRN's been a fat negative for my parochial enjoyment of Market Square.

They have 3 addresses on W 26th listed for the June 14th board of zoning appeals for parking-lot work and re-surfacing.

Which means that there are three different parcels

Athens moved to the old Peaches or Coconuts records plaza at brookpark and pearl.  It's not a very attractive space and terrible for their business. They did not have a choice but to leave as the powers that be wouldn't let them renew their lease, and they weren't very happy about it.

Athens moved to the old Peaches or Coconuts records plaza at brookpark and pearl. It's not a very attractive space and terrible for their business. They did not have a choice but to leave as the powers that be wouldn't let them renew their lease, and they weren't very happy about it.

 

I understand they were forced out, and that's a shame, but they couldn't find a better location to relocate to than Brookpark and Pearl?

^Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the plan to lure local food-based businesses to the neighborhood does it?  Who knows, maybe the Athens people just decided to cheap out after losing their space.

 

Regarding the Market District- are there lots of empty storefronts in the immediate area still left to fill?  The Cleveland.com article mentioned the possible new Turkish space filling one on W25th, but are there others?  If not many, anyone know where the new businesses are supposed to go?

I haven't done an inventory recently, but seems like several spots are open. 

Athens moved to the old Peaches or Coconuts records plaza at brookpark and pearl.  It's not a very attractive space and terrible for their business. They did not have a choice but to leave as the powers that be wouldn't let them renew their lease, and they weren't very happy about it.

 

I understand they were forced out, and that's a shame, but they couldn't find a better location to relocate to than Brookpark and Pearl?

 

So many empty spaces along Loraine... too bad something could not have been suitable for them there. The old Peaches place seems huge for the kind of place Athens is. Is next to where the old Mining Company was? Now a 70's and country themed dual club?

there are spots on Lorain, but nothing much until you cross Fulton really. And by that point you are no longer part of the Market, you are a destination.

Between MRN and Ignatius, there are fewer and fewer storefronts on the eastern end of Lorain, filled or empty.

Athens moved to the old Peaches or Coconuts records plaza at brookpark and pearl. It's not a very attractive space and terrible for their business. They did not have a choice but to leave as the powers that be wouldn't let them renew their lease, and they weren't very happy about it.

 

I understand they were forced out, and that's a shame, but they couldn't find a better location to relocate to than Brookpark and Pearl?

 

So many empty spaces along Loraine... too bad something could not have been suitable for them there. The old Peaches place seems huge for the kind of place Athens is. Is next to where the old Mining Company was? Now a 70's and country themed dual club?

 

No, no, they're not IN the old Peaches space, they're in that plaza.  It's a very tiny storefront on the end of that strip that sits next to the old Peaches store.  It's called the Pearlbrook plaza. There's supposed to be a very good sandwich shop in there called Goodman's, but THEY'RE NOT OPEN ON WEEKENDS so I have never been able to try it. WTF would you have your business in a location like that and not even be open on Saturdays.

I'm out of the loop here... what's MRN doing with regard to storefronts?

^As part of the Guardian Bank project, it tore down the old Grilly's bar on Lorain (for parking) and is moving a social services non profit into the Athens space.

 

Just refreshing my memory on the google maps, it's actually stunning how few storefronts there are now between W25th and W 32nd.

 

I loved the idea of the Market Square cluster, but now I'm really curious where these new businesses are going to fit in.

I think of Lorain Avenue as the Boulevard of Used Car Lots.  Some parts retain more density than others, but this theme carries all the way into West Park.

^ Here is a website for anyone's convenience. So now we will have a social service est. right in with the market cluster. How exciting! We simply have too few of these in OC.  :|

 

http://www.discoverlorainave.com/default.aspx

We should bring back the stagecoaches on Lorain!

Athens moved to the old Peaches or Coconuts records plaza at brookpark and pearl. It's not a very attractive space and terrible for their business. They did not have a choice but to leave as the powers that be wouldn't let them renew their lease, and they weren't very happy about it.

 

I understand they were forced out, and that's a shame, but they couldn't find a better location to relocate to than Brookpark and Pearl?

 

So many empty spaces along Loraine... too bad something could not have been suitable for them there. The old Peaches place seems huge for the kind of place Athens is. Is next to where the old Mining Company was? Now a 70's and country themed dual club?

 

No, no, they're not IN the old Peaches space, they're in that plaza. It's a very tiny storefront on the end of that strip that sits next to the old Peaches store. It's called the Pearlbrook plaza. There's supposed to be a very good sandwich shop in there called Goodman's, but THEY'RE NOT OPEN ON WEEKENDS so I have never been able to try it. WTF would you have your business in a location like that and not even be open on Saturdays.

 

Goodman's is the best...I like it better than Slymans.  Mmm, hand sliced corned beef.  And my guess is they are closed on Sat because they rake on weekday lunches.  Plus the old guy who cuts the meat needs a couple days off!

ANOTHER social services nonprofit in OC?!?!?!  WTF?

So we don't want to see people with some challenges have opportunity and independence? I hope folks will learn a little about LEAP, the people the serve, and the successes they have had before making judgement. I loved Athens, but rather than be upset about non profits using empty space to provide a service to the community, I would ask why Athens had to move so far away to do business when this area is trying to promote itself as a culinary destination.

 

LEAP serves OUR near west community. Sorry that everyone would prefer to cast their rightous gaze on higher percentages of yuppies instead of seeing persons with disadvantage and disabilities have opportunities for employment. Given the threads around here lately it seems people would prefer to talk about people wanting welfare over opening their mind to programs that promote education and self sufficiency. Shame.live in Westlake.  rant over

Speaking of Westlake, why can't they host some of these social services?  Crocker Park is served by RTA.  Consumers of social services should be introduced to the area's premier retail destinations... they have as much right to go to Crocker Park as anyone else.  Spread this stuff out more, it isn't fair to anyone that it's all in central Cleveland.

Sorry Peabody, when I mentioned MRN putting a social services agency in that space, I really didn't mean to knock the new tenant at all.  First off, they are already in Ohio City, so people shouldn't go off deep end about "another" agency moving to the neighborhood.  And it's not like an outpatient clinic for sex offenders or anything, so I don't think they'll be scaring away anyone, if that was a concern.  I'm just annoyed that a retail business that fit in so nicely with the other attractions got booted from its longtime space, and that a non-retail business is moving in.  I'd be just as annoyed if it were the Yuppie Dogwalkers of America HQ moving in there.

^Just to clarify, LEAP is not moving into the Athens space, they are moving into the space above Athens.  And please take a look at LEAP's website before bashing them, they do great work and their 20 employees will be a great addition to second -floor office space that is currently vacant and has been for a very long time.  LEAP is already based in the neighborhood, they are relocating from space in the LMM building on W 25th and the Director chose the new space based on its proximity to the amenities of the Market District and public transportation (which she believes at least 25% of her employees will use from the start). 

 

Athens former retail space is available, and I have a meeting scheduled this afternoon with MRN and a potential tenant.  They are absolutely looking for uses complimentary to the Market District plan for that space and other storefronts under their control.  We reached out to Athens several times to get them to stay in the neighborhood, they were set on a building with parking immediately in front, something not readily available or desired in Ohio City, and it looks like they found a space that was exactly what they were looking for.  We would have been thrilled if they stayed in their existing space or found another space in the neighborhood that either fit their needs or worked for the land use plans of the neighborhood.

Thanks Ewoops, good luck with your meeting today and hope we get something great.

Social services is my current profession, so it's not like I think that's a bad thing.  It's just not a solid building block for a commercial district, not at street level.  Land uses can be good in some ways but not in others.  It's important to consider all angles.  That said, I'd still like to see more social services in the burbs. 

 

Second floor is a different ballgame entirely.  I'm a big fan of Michel Delacroix's paintings of Paris.  The pattern that jumps out at me in those is ground floor retail, second floor office, and residential above that.  You can see this pattern in historical photos of any city.  That's how you get the most bang for your buck, in terms of land use.

Athens moved to the old Peaches or Coconuts records plaza at brookpark and pearl.  It's not a very attractive space and terrible for their business. They did not have a choice but to leave as the powers that be wouldn't let them renew their lease, and they weren't very happy about it.

 

I understand they were forced out, and that's a shame, but they couldn't find a better location to relocate to than Brookpark and Pearl?

 

So many empty spaces along Loraine... too bad something could not have been suitable for them there. The old Peaches place seems huge for the kind of place Athens is. Is next to where the old Mining Company was? Now a 70's and country themed dual club?

 

No, no, they're not IN the old Peaches space, they're in that plaza.  It's a very tiny storefront on the end of that strip that sits next to the old Peaches store.  It's called the Pearlbrook plaza. There's supposed to be a very good sandwich shop in there called Goodman's, but THEY'RE NOT OPEN ON WEEKENDS so I have never been able to try it. WTF would you have your business in a location like that and not even be open on Saturdays.

 

Goodman's is the best...I like it better than Slymans.  Mmm, hand sliced corned beef.  And my guess is they are closed on Sat because they rake on weekday lunches.  Plus the old guy who cuts the meat needs a couple days off!

 

I agree.  LEAP does some phenomenal work.  You guys shouldn't knock them until you know more about them.

 

Goodman's is open Saturdays until 2ish, at least last I had heard.  I really dug the sandwiches until I gave up red meat about four years ago.  Solid locally owned Old Brooklyn business (albeit, the area south of I-480 is kind of the forgotten part of OB) that's been there since I was a kid.

Social services is my current profession, so it's not like I think that's a bad thing. It's just not a solid building block for a commercial district, not at street level. Land uses can be good in some ways but not in others. It's important to consider all angles. That said, I'd still like to see more social services in the burbs.

 

Second floor is a different ballgame entirely. I'm a big fan of Michel Delacroix's paintings of Paris. The pattern that jumps out at me in those is ground floor retail, second floor office, and residential above that. You can see this pattern in historical photos of any city. That's how you get the most bang for your buck, in terms of land use.

 

And then you get the quizzical look in building in housing. Our building has upper floor apartments and ground floor retail and I swear you'd have thought my brother had walked in and asked if it was ok to land his spaceship in Ohio City.

Social services is my current profession, so it's not like I think that's a bad thing. It's just not a solid building block for a commercial district, not at street level. Land uses can be good in some ways but not in others. It's important to consider all angles. That said, I'd still like to see more social services in the burbs.

 

Second floor is a different ballgame entirely. I'm a big fan of Michel Delacroix's paintings of Paris. The pattern that jumps out at me in those is ground floor retail, second floor office, and residential above that. You can see this pattern in historical photos of any city. That's how you get the most bang for your buck, in terms of land use.

 

And then you get the quizzical look in building in housing. Our building has upper floor apartments and ground floor retail and I swear you'd have thought my brother had walked in and asked if it was ok to land his spaceship in Ohio City.

 

It's like nobody's ever seen Lakewood or Coventry or East 4th.  Diff'rent Strokes, I guess.  Maybe they'll come around and maybe they won't.  But regardless of them, there are plenty of people waiting for more traditional urban housing to show up around here, and there are billions around the world for whom it works very well.