If only we gave $5.8 million to the West Side Market like we did the Cleveland Browns Stadium this year.

If only we gave $5.8 million to the West Side Market like we did the Cleveland Browns Stadium this year.

 

Especially since the West Side Market draws more than 1 million visitors per year. The Cleveland Browns drew only 526,874 visitors in 2011, and the most they could ever draw (including preseason) is 732,000. Throw in a couple of sell-out concerts and its still fewer than what the West Side Market draws.

I bet the Browns visitors spend way more total money, though.  Tickets, concessions, parking, food/drinks before or after, hotel stays- it adds up quickly.  None of that is to say the WSM isn't totally deserving of more resources, though.

I bet the Browns visitors spend way more total money, though.  Tickets, concessions, parking, food/drinks before or after, hotel stays- it adds up quickly.  None of that is to say the WSM isn't totally deserving of more resources, though.

 

True. And I bet the Browns require more expense by the city too. I wonder what the tab is just to clean up the Muny Parking Lot after all the tailgaters are gone? Then there's the police patrols/response, traffic enforcement, etc.

I attended the 'People's Party' for the West Side Market at Crop last night. Really good food. A bit too crowded at some points but overall a very nice event.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/11/west_side_market_benefit_peopl.html

Awesome....

 

Slovenian-inspired Hansa brewery, cooking school on tap in Cleveland's Ohio City neighborhood

Published: Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 8:00 AM

  By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A European-inspired brewery and a cooking school could open in Ohio City next year, expanding a food-and-beverage district around the West Side Market.

 

Boris Music, a Slovenian immigrant who moved to Cleveland in the 1970s, plans a $3 million redevelopment of the Hansa Import Haus, a German specialty store on Lorain Avenue. The project would include a restaurant and brewery, where Music hopes to produce beer based on recipes from Pivovarna Lasko, Slovenia's largest beer producer.

 

A short walk away, on West 26th Street, the owners of Hudson's Western Reserve School of Cooking have signed a lease on the ground floor of the Fries & Schuele condominium building. Catherine St. John and her husband aim to open a small kitchen store by the holidays and launch their second cooking school, tentatively called the Cookery at Market Square, early next year.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/slovenian-inspired_hansa_brewe.html#incart_river_default

 

 

Unfortunately, the cooking school will not be happening...

 

I attended the 'People's Party' for the West Side Market at Crop last night. Really good food. A bit too crowded at some points but overall a very nice event.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2012/11/west_side_market_benefit_peopl.html

 

I was there too. It was way better than I expected, and I was glad we had the "early admission" ticket because by 10 it was a madhouse and we left.

This is great news!! Let's get this part of the strip going...

 

The Cleveland-based developer The Foran Group has announced plans to convert a pair of historic buildings on W. 25th Street in Ohio City into 70 market-rate apartments. The game-changing project, in the works for several years, is the first big new housing project to get off the ground here since the Great Recession.

 

Positioned between the success of Ohio City's Market District and the popular Stonebridge apartment, office and condo complex, the new West 25th Street Lofts will bring fresh life and vibrancy to a critical dead zone in the heart of Ohio City.

 

http://freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/ohiocityapartments010112.aspx

 

Found this image of a possible site plan while browsing google.

^ wow!  compared to http://freshwatercleveland.com/galleries/News_Items/2012/November_2012/Issue_98/baehr_brewing_company_building.jpg

 

And welcome to UO!

That's beautiful, I thought that building was a goner. It's not highlighted on the OC master plan.

 

That being said, what do you guys think of the "boulevard concept" for this section of W 25th?  What are the benefits of doing that?

^That's really good question.  Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of wasting space on a median that could otherwise be devoted to sidewalks, bike lanes, and on-street parking.  And a curb separated bike lane should be a huge priority here, IMHO, to connect the existing bridge bikeway to Market Square.  I know traffic planners love medians because they make left turn lanes so easy to layout, but I'd love to see some alternative schemes to better understand the tradeoffs.

I hate that section of road...it is nothing but lane after lane of traffic. Cleaning up the street, new investment and hopefully a relocation of the CMHA properties may spur additional investment in the area.  That section has a lot of potential...just needs a little push:)

In addition to StrapHanger's points, which I second, remember that every bit of landscaping we add creates a perpetual maintenance expense.  Consider the battle over who has to mow the treelawns on Euclid.

That's beautiful, I thought that building was a goner. It's not highlighted on the OC master plan.

 

That being said, what do you guys think of the "boulevard concept" for this section of W 25th?  What are the benefits of doing that?

 

I'd rather see single lane cycle tracks and each side of the road. I think it makes more sense with future bike lanes down detroit, and the multi-use path on the lorain-carnegie bridge.

 

And welcome to UO!

 

Thanks! Been a lurker for awhile now.

That's beautiful, I thought that building was a goner. It's not highlighted on the OC master plan.

 

That being said, what do you guys think of the "boulevard concept" for this section of W 25th?  What are the benefits of doing that?

 

I like the boulevard concept. i think it would be great for this area

So after a ton of digging, I finally found what the huge building under construction at Chatham/W 28/W 29/Monroe was. It was probably discussed in here a while back, but I couldn't find anything. When driving by there are no signs to advise what the construction is. After looking at google maps, I realized it used to be Paul Dunbar elementary school, but I cannot find a single rendering of the project...anyone have any insight?

Developers inch forward with long-stalled West 25th Street Lofts in Cleveland's Ohio City

Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

Posted:  11/05/2012 8:00 PM

   

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A rambling cluster of buildings, including an 1870s brewery and beer-wagon stable, will become 70 apartments under a long-stalled redevelopment plan creeping forward in Cleveland's Ohio City neighborhood.

 

The revival of West 25th Street is stretching north, enabling developers Rick Foran and Chris Smythe to turn historic buildings into homes after years of delays. Sidelined when the economy collapsed and financing dried up, the West 25th Street Lofts could see construction start in March.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://mobile.cleveland.com/advcleve/pm_29204/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=4X2QpHo3

Landmarks Commission

AGENDA - November 8, 2012

 

A busy agenda....

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2012/11082012/index.php

 

 

Another neglected building due to come tumbling down.....

 

Lorain Avenue Historic District

3700 Lorain Avenue

Demolition

 

 

 

 

 

And since a building cannot be demolished without a site plan, here it is:

 

 

 

Anyone know how serious is that plan for 3700 Lorain?

 

 

 

And in happier news......

 

Lorain Avenue Historic District

4507-11 Lorain Avenue

Storefront and building renovation

 

Yesterday:

 

Today:

 

Tomorrow:

 

 

And......

 

Ohio City Historic District

2927 Bridge Avenue

Renovation for expansion of Heck's Cafe

 

 

It would be nice if they could deconstruct that building in such a way that they could re-use the bricks, but I'm guessing that's probably not likely .

It would be nice if they could deconstruct that building in such a way that they could re-use the bricks, but I'm guessing that's probably not likely .

 

It's very possible, also very labor intensive. If you labor costs aren't an issue, like in China, it can be done.

 

http://inhabitat.com/wang-shus-powerful-ningbo-history-museum-is-built-from-rubble/

 

Please help preserve the neighborhood's values of creating a locally run artisan atmosphere:

 

http://www.change.org/petitions/mcdonald-s-corporation-stop-plans-to-build-a-new-mcdonald-s-in-cleveland-s-ohio-city-neighborhood

 

Also, can anyone suggest an official method of protest to the city council?

Some of the principles behind this make sense.  Not all though... one guy in the comments said he opposed it because Lorain and Fulton is a fundamentally residential area.  No it isn't.  That sounds more like anti-urbanism.  I'm curious how much opposition there would be if McDonalds hypothetically wanted to put 4 floors of upscale apartments above their store.  Would that fly, or is the issue McDonalds itself.  I'm all for sticking with a coherent development plan, but I don't believe a McDonalds (or any business) should be opposed by a poor city neighborhood on the sole basis of food snobbery. 

My thought process was this intersection should be made better by an up to the street project.  If they're wanting to put a Mcdonalds here, they may as well tear down the adorable building across the street and build a CVS.  Ohio City's appeal is moving westward...this would not be progress and $7 per hour positions are not a good reason to build it.

A halfway house there doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

A halfway house there doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

 

You said it nicer than I could.

 

 

 

 

You mean Mcdonalds won't add to to their property values??!! That was one of the concerns voiced in those discussions and then a low density, unattractive building adding additional traffic comes in and it's better? Those features don't seem to me to add value to homes.

Open businesses are good for urban home values.  A drive thru would be far less good, especially for adjacent residential, but still a net gain for most properties in the area.  People like being able to go to things.  Unless it refuses to serve pedestrians, a McDonalds would add something useful the neighborhood.  And for many who live there, McJobs are infinitely better than no jobs.

 

I'm sure there are better uses for this site... but a halfway house would be so much worse than an operational eatery of any kind. 

The residential plans shown above for 3700 Lorain show that this area is becoming more viable for better development than a half-way house or a McDonald's.

 

I'm sure there are better uses for this site... but a halfway house would be so much worse than an operational eatery of any kind. 

 

Agreed!

I doubt we're going to find any consensus on the "which would you rather live near" question.  For what it's worth, there has been some high quality, disinterested empirical research looking at the effects of supportive housing on neighboring property values in other cities and it has found virtually no negative effects.

 

I'm sure there are better uses for this site... but a halfway house would be so much worse than an operational eatery of any kind. 

 

Agreed!

 

Here we go again.  Terms are important.  Permanent Supportive Housing <> Halfway House.  From Wiki:

 

Supportive housing is a combination of housing and services intended as a cost-effective way to help people live more stable, productive lives. Supportive housing is widely believed to work well for those who face the most complex challenges—individuals and families confronted with homelessness and who also have very low incomes and/or serious, persistent issues that may include substance abuse, addiction or alcoholism, mental illness.

 

A halfway house, also called a recovery house or sober house, is a place to allow people to begin the process of reintegration with society, while still providing monitoring and support; this is generally believed to reduce the risk of recidivism or relapse when compared to a release directly into society. Some halfway houses are meant solely for reintegration of persons who have been recently released from prison or jail, others are meant for people with chronic mental health disorders, and most others are for people with substance abuse issues. These sober halfway houses are many times voluntary places of residence and many of the residents may have no criminal record whatsoever. There is often opposition from neighborhoods where halfway houses attempt to locate.

 

I read both definitions as "shouldn't be located in a commercial district we're trying to redevelop."  Ideally we're able to help everybody.  But most likely we can't help everybody in the exact same place at the exact same time in whatever manner they need.  There are better locations for Permanent Supportive Housing and/or a Halfway House.  Not the intersection of two key commercial streets.

There are better locations for Permanent Supportive Housing xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.  Not the intersection of two key commercial streets.

 

Sure but understanding what each is leads to very different discussions on their merits regardless of site selection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure but we're talking about a specific site.  Based on your definitions, I'm not seeing a significantly different impact.  What am I missing?

I read both definitions as "shouldn't be located in a commercial district we're trying to redevelop."  Ideally we're able to help everybody.  But most likely we can't help everybody in the exact same place at the exact same time in whatever manner they need.  There are better locations for Permanent Supportive Housing and/or a Halfway House.  Not the intersection of two key commercial streets.

 

Well said.

Sure but we're talking about a specific site.  Based on your definitions, I'm not seeing a significantly different impact.  What am I missing?

 

This little word 'may'. 

 

'and/or serious, persistent issues that may include substance abuse, addiction or alcoholism, mental illness.'

 

Generally Permanent Supportive Housing would have less concerns with neighborhood safety issues than Halfway Houses.

327 I absolutely agree. While a McDonalds is not ideal, food snobbery does not equal progress. And yes, a McJob is better than no job, especially in areas close to this one that has had relatively high unemployment (in good times and bad, in booms and busts, under Republicans and Democrats). Now this is NOT to say that we can't or shouldn't put pressure on McDonalds to build a restaurant that is aesthetically pleasing, or at least not aesthetically offensive. The new McDonalds on Warrensville Center Road, the inside of which looks like a cafe, is a good example of what we could and should have here. So we can make sure that it's not the same old, tired, standard, vanilla McDonalds. But we shouldn't be against them building here. We should be glad that they want to.

Build this sucker up to the street.

 

Some of the principles behind this make sense.  Not all though... one guy in the comments said he opposed it because Lorain and Fulton is a fundamentally residential area.  No it isn't.  That sounds more like anti-urbanism.  I'm curious how much opposition there would be if McDonalds hypothetically wanted to put 4 floors of upscale apartments above their store.  Would that fly, or is the issue McDonalds itself.  I'm all for sticking with a coherent development plan, but I don't believe a McDonalds (or any business) should be opposed by a poor city neighborhood on the sole basis of food snobbery. 

 

Not wanting a McDonald's in one's neighborhood is "food snobbery"?  Oh my.

Some of the principles behind this make sense.  Not all though... one guy in the comments said he opposed it because Lorain and Fulton is a fundamentally residential area.  No it isn't.  That sounds more like anti-urbanism.  I'm curious how much opposition there would be if McDonalds hypothetically wanted to put 4 floors of upscale apartments above their store.  Would that fly, or is the issue McDonalds itself.  I'm all for sticking with a coherent development plan, but I don't believe a McDonalds (or any business) should be opposed by a poor city neighborhood on the sole basis of food snobbery. 

 

Not wanting a McDonald's in one's neighborhood is "food snobbery"?  Oh my.

 

When there's high unemployment and people need jobs (ANY jobs)? Yes, yes it is.

Build this sucker up to the street.

 

 

Bingo. This is how it should be done. And it also shows that it CAN be done.

Some of the principles behind this make sense.  Not all though... one guy in the comments said he opposed it because Lorain and Fulton is a fundamentally residential area.  No it isn't.  That sounds more like anti-urbanism.  I'm curious how much opposition there would be if McDonalds hypothetically wanted to put 4 floors of upscale apartments above their store.  Would that fly, or is the issue McDonalds itself.  I'm all for sticking with a coherent development plan, but I don't believe a McDonalds (or any business) should be opposed by a poor city neighborhood on the sole basis of food snobbery. 

 

Not wanting a McDonald's in one's neighborhood is "food snobbery"?  Oh my.

 

When there's high unemployment and people need jobs (ANY jobs)? Yes, yes it is.

 

Mildly off-topic, (and I'm not sure if still true or not), but years ago the owner of the McDonalds at 30th and Carnegie told me he had to bus kids from the suburbs to work at that location because he couldn't get any local kids to work there.  Turns out that for kids growing up in the projects, getting a job and showing income affects their mother's qualification for public housing.  So they were not allowed to work at McDonalds, even if they wanted to.  So he bought a couple 15 passenger vans, and would hire kids from Warrensville, Garfield, Maple Heights, etc and drive them in to work on Carnegie.

 

But a job's a job, and it starts with construction jobs, which of course are highly coveted.  I hope the neighborhood gets a design like the one above!  You can be assured that the location will be a high-volume store, so a two-story location could certainly be considered!

I've seen plenty of appropriately designed urban McDonalds stores.  Shouldn't be too tough to get one.  This city can no longer afford to be anti business (NO McDonalds!) but it still needs to be design conscious (proper McDonalds like the one above).

Im more concerned about the litter than anything else.  Folks who eat at urban McDonalds dont seem to care about what they put in their body, so why should they care about the earth?  I live in Detroit Shoreway and am active in a community garden.  I pick up litter off 73rd weekly (could be daily) and it also blows right into the garden.  Disgusting.  Culprits?  McDonalds, Burger King, Family Dollar (snickers, chip bags, etc)

The design on the picture above is nice, but it leaves some questions. Where is it in relation to the street? I don't see the size of the parking lot or the drive through. I have nothing against McD's, but turning Lorain into another 117th is not going to help the neighborhood progress regardless of the design aspect.

Im more concerned about the litter than anything else.  Folks who eat at urban McDonalds dont seem to care about what they put in their body, so why should they care about the earth?  I live in Detroit Shoreway and am active in a community garden.  I pick up litter off 73rd weekly (could be daily) and it also blows right into the garden.  Disgusting.  Culprits?  McDonalds, Burger King, Family Dollar (snickers, chip bags, etc)

 

I think citing an increase of litter is a bit of a weak subject.  I also pick the urban tumbleweeds daily from my front yard  (w 42nd), but that's just part of living in a densely populated area.

 

The key to moving OC west is to attract people who care about the neighborhood.  The current state of the neighborhood seems to attract those who don't care much for taking care of themselves or the surrounding area.  With Fulton and Lorain being such a critical keystone in moving west, I didn't initially believe McDonald's to be the proper catalyst.

 

I've passed this petition along to a law friend who mentioned it difficult to turn down a well backed company interested in investing in a long dormant site, in a lesser developed area of OC.  It may be suck that it's a McDonald's, but the space is being filled and will be difficult to overturn with protest.

 

Perhaps a better course of action is to get the facts on the design review and do what we can as citizens to ensure it integrates well with the street scape and entices would be retailers to begin filling in the blank spots.

^it may be weak, but its true.  People who eat at McDonalds likely are NOT the same folks who do express food at OCB or Noodlecat or Bogtrotters.  They are people who take .99 burgers and throw the wrappers on the ground.  Whether its weak or not, the folks who patronize these establishments in an urban area are likely to litter.  I have gotten into confrontations in our neighborhood before with kids walking out of family dollar who blatantly threw his wrappers on the ground. I told him to pick it up, he laughed at me and walked away.  At the end of the day, its just one more opportunity for litter to take place.  I think if the neihgborhood were to hold out, it would be better redeveloped in the near future. 

What bothers me the most is the loud speaker from the drive-thru window. This would really bother me if I lived within a few homes of this thing.

 

Per the zoning, it would have to be built up to the sidewalk.

^it may be weak, but its true.  People who eat at McDonalds likely are NOT the same folks who do express food at OCB or Noodlecat or Bogtrotters.  They are people who take .99 burgers and throw the wrappers on the ground.  Whether its weak or not, the folks who patronize these establishments in an urban area are likely to litter.  I have gotten into confrontations in our neighborhood before with kids walking out of family dollar who blatantly threw his wrappers on the ground. I told him to pick it up, he laughed at me and walked away.  At the end of the day, its just one more opportunity for litter to take place.  I think if the neihgborhood were to hold out, it would be better redeveloped in the near future.

WOW thats one hell of a stereotype.

^In this specific urban area? Why would anyone who has express craft food at their finger tips two blocks away go to McDonalds?  Those who like quality are not going to McDonalds.