It's an interesting idea to have the trains loop around but I don't know if all the work involved in making that possible makes it worth it.  The eastern railroad lines are owned by different companies so it gets pretty complicated pretty quick. 

^ From what I've heard, the Oasis Line has no stops between Lunken and Downtown, so there's little potential for city-building along the line.

^ Does that mean it would be impossible for a developer to negotiate a stop being added for new development between Downtown and Lunken?

 

I would think there should be a stop by the Boathouse/Adam's Crossing. There are a few high-density apartment buildings there already, there is a walking path to Mount Adams, potential for more development, and park-and-ride potential on the periphery of Downtown.

 

Edit: It's also right near the event space for Sawyer Point, and could boost the usefulness of this space for events.

^Seems like a stop near The Precinct for Columbia/Tusculum would work as well.  There is a fair amount of housing there.

a stop at/near the precinct would make more sense since its between 4-5 miles from vine/2nd st. downtown. A stop near Adam's Landing however, would seem to be too close to downtown IMO. Usually stops are spaced 2-5 miles apart on commuter rail. Adam's landing is 1 miles from vine/2nd st. A stop at/near Kemper LN may be good distance-wise... but IDK about its development potential.

^ From what I've heard, the Oasis Line has no stops between Lunken and Downtown, so there's little potential for city-building along the line.

 

The current plan has stops at The Boathouse, East End and Columbia Tusculum. Combined ridership from these three stops is projected to be 85 total boardings per day in 2035.

I find it interesting that the proposed Cincinnati Streetcar and the proposed OASIS commuter rail seem to have opposite objectives, yet they are both being proposed in the same city.

If the corridor was developed as light rail, then it would make sense to put stops at least at the Boathouse, Collins, St. Andrews, Delta/Stanley, Airport, and Beechmont/Linwood before striking out to Fairfax/Mariemont, Newtown, and South Milford.  For commuter rail though, a stop at Delta/Stanley is probably the only worthwhile one. 

 

Of course I could see doing both, with electrified light rail within the city limits and longer-haul dieselized suburban commuter service extending beyond, all on the same tracks.  The only trouble with light rail on the existing roadbed is that it's out of sight, out of mind.  Access to Riverside Drive isn't difficult, but except at Delta it's so hidden that it wouldn't get much mindshare.  I'd also be worried about redevelopment potential with the tracks being hidden a block away from Riverside Drive as well as the creepy factor causing fears of crime.

Linwood has the potential to have some really neat TOD if ridership is high enough.

I find it interesting that the proposed Cincinnati Streetcar and the proposed OASIS commuter rail seem to have opposite objectives, yet they are both being proposed in the same city.

 

We're seeing day and night comparing these projects because the Streetcar is being constructed by the City and the Oasis is a County priority.  I still think having intercity rail in Cincinnati, period, is a big step.  Cincinnatians will eventually notice the Oasis coming to fruition and cry about how it doesn't serve enough people.  One of the solutions to that will be LRT up 75 as planned with the Brent Spence project.  We all know ODOT is fickle when it comes to rail anywhere outside NE Ohio.  The Oasis being built is one reason it could happen no matter what.  County demand would be behind it.  Then again, we seen what happened with the Streetcar...

Doesn't the Oasis line go through Anderson? Doesn't one of the COASTers live in Anderson? This might get interesting.

They need something like this at the end of the Oasis line.

 

http://www.dezeen.com/2012/10/24/great-city-by-adrian-smith-gordon-gill-architecture/

At which end? Is Milford going to sprout up a CBD that surpasses Downtown?

Lots of potential around Newtown.  Build a floodwall on the little miami and you will never know. It takes vision though.

Old Milford will also do a major happy dance if they get a station.

For those going to the Wasson Line rail/trail public meeting this evening...

 

Meeting Date: Wednesday, November 14, 2012

Time: 5:30 p.m.

Location: Department of City Planning, 7th Floor, Conference Room 2, 805 Central Avenue, Cincinnati

 

...And others interested, here is All Aboard Ohio's official position on the subject:

 

"Amidst some recent confusion on All Aboard Ohio's position on the Eastern Corridor project and Wasson Line Corridor, this will clarify our position. All Aboard Ohio fully supports both the Eastern Corridor rail project as proposed and presented by Hamilton County and the Wasson Way Corridor as a dual bike and transit corridor.  Our terminology of "preferred routing" over the Wasson Corridor does express our position that ideally this would be a preferred route as part of the Eastern Corridor since it traverses a more densely populated and active area.  The preferred routing term does not infer that the current Eastern Corridor project should be delayed or changed to include this route prior to it's proposed implementation date of 2016.  All Aboard Ohio understands that re-establishing the Wasson Line as a transit corridor will take many years of planning and construction to essentially re-connect Downtown/Uptown to the existing Right-of-Way near Xavier University.  We support moving forward with the Eastern Corridor at this time.  As future transit progress allows, incorporate the Wasson Line into the Eastern Corridor either as the primary route or a secondary route to the Oasis Line.  In essence, our goal, as with any rail related projects, is to insure that proper foresight is given to planning and engineering on the design of the Wasson Line to show the ultimate layout which includes side-by-side rail line and bike path.  We are excited and supportive that the Eastern Corridor rail project has received funding to move forward and that the City of Cincinnati is giving consideration to preserve the Wasson Line as a transit corridor both a bike/ped path and rail."

 

Ken Prendergast

Executive Director

All Aboard Ohio-RESTORE

850 Euclid Ave., Suite 1026

Cleveland, OH 44114-3357

(216) 394-0012 office

(216) 288-4883 cell

[email protected]

www.allaboardohio.org

Anyone know why it is taking so long for another ballot for light rail? Its been 10 going on 11 years since the 2002 metro moves ballot. Yet opponents seems to have something every year trying funding for what ever. Does metro moves not have enough signatures to put it on the ballot again?

Metromoves was put on the ballot by SORTA's board.  The board has the right to put a dedicated transit tax on the ballot any year they want. 

 

The problem is the pro-Metromoves campaign spent about $500,000 versus almost nothing for the opposition, and it still went down 2-1.  It illustrates the power of talk radio to confuse the public into voting against their self-interest.  All those same people are still on the radio and the stadium tax remains constantly in the news.  I don't think it can pass. 

I agree.  It could not pass in the current climate.  However, Hamilton County demographics are changing...

I think a comprehensive transit plan could work.  The most valid and frequently-spewed argument of streetcar opponents is that the route is relatively short.  They've been clamoring for a regional network and don't even know it.  I would love to see local pro-transit leadership give it to them.

I might also add that gas prices are a lot higher now, and due to growth of express lines, I think people who aren't part of the shifting demographics would be more receptive to the idea of a transit.

Talk radio/tea party mantra regarding a new metro moves will be "we already have two stadiums and museums we can't afford, why are we building more things no one will use". Or they will go to the less harsh "its a great idea but now is not the time. we cant afford it" blah blah blah.

 

Or what bill Cunningham said with metro moves "thugs and gangbangers from Otr will come to Indian Hill to rape, pillage and plunder your loved ones"

I think a comprehensive transit plan could work.  The most valid and frequently-spewed argument of streetcar opponents is that the route is relatively short.  They've been clamoring for a regional network and don't even know it.  I would love to see local pro-transit leadership give it to them.

 

If something's not too ambitious, it's too short. If it's not too slow, it's too expensive. There's either too many stops or too few. Either too many people will ride it or not enough. There's always something wrong with every proposed rail project to these people.

It's not going to change here until Columbus, Indianapolis, or Louisville do something, and none of them have anything on the table.  Rail and bus expansion are going to come from Cincinnati first, not the county.  An increase of the Cincinnati earnings tax requires voter approval whereas a city property tax increase does not.  Presently Metro collects about $43 million annually from its .3% earnings tax. 

 

For purposes of discussion, let's say this was increased to .5% (total earnings tax increases to 2.3%) the annual sum would rise to $71~ million.  If half of this is dedicated to increased bus service that leaves $14 million to build and operate rail.  This would take pressure off the capital budget by moving streetcar phase 1 expenses to this dedicated funding stream.  So there would be something like $8 million annually to expand the system for two years until another phase opens, then assuming this phase costs $3 million to run debt would be repaid with $5 million annually. 

 

In very rough terms $5 million annually for 30 years lets you borrow about $150 million.  So the city could for sure build $150 million worth of new line, but that doesn't count federal or state grants, which could easily bring in another $100 million.   

 

Also, I would like to see a study of how much could be saved by turning the Colerain and Hamilton Ave. buses at Northside, with a transfer to light rail through the subway or new streetcar lines on Ludlow/Clifton and Ludlow/Jefferson.  Operational savings here could obviously pay for more service elsewhere.

 

 

I know we're getting a little off topic, but have you had a chance to look at the planning docs out from Metro recently? In their short-range goals, they are already looking at restructuring routes to terminate at the neighborhood hubs with 'collector' and/or BRT buses connecting to DT. This has significant cost-reduction opps.

No I haven't.  But signal priority and zero or only 1 or 2 stops beween hubs and DT could make a big difference.  GPS-triggered signal priortiy and cue jump lanes are new technologies that won't revolutionize city bus logistics but can make significant improvements.   

Hamilton County has went Blue twice, which was mostly Red before hand. So most people may have changed. Also gas was not $4 a gallon in 2002. More like $1.50.

Voting slightly majority democrat in a presidential election and for a sheriff doesn't translate perfectly into a win for a county transit tax. 

They may need to bring everything to the table. Including hov lanes, Ohio portion of the Brent Spence bridge, Eastern Corridor etc. That may bring more people in-favor of it.

Voting slightly majority democrat in a presidential election and for a sheriff doesn't translate perfectly into a win for a county transit tax.

 

This is very true. Inclusion on the Democrat sample ballot does not yet guarantee a win in Hamilton County.

Voting slightly majority democrat in a presidential election and for a sheriff doesn't translate perfectly into a win for a county transit tax. 

LOL. Someone had to spell it out.

Thought you all might enjoy this e-mail sent to an All Aboard Ohio member....

 

From: Hubbard, Ted [mailto:[email protected]]

Subject: Re: Response to the "No Build" request for the Eastern Corridor Program

 

Thank you for sending your recent email requesting adoption of the “No Build” alternative for the Eastern Corridor Program. Community input that represents multiple perspectives on the proposed Program is absolutely necessary and an integral part of the process we’re using to develop solutions to the Eastern Corridor’s transportation issues.

 

Greater Cincinnati’s eastern corridor – which extends east from downtown Cincinnati through Hamilton County and into western Clermont County – is experiencing serious transportation problems which the Eastern Corridor Program is working to address.  These include:

 

> The existing roads cannot support the amount of cars, trucks and other such vehicles that are now traveling on these roads—this is expected to get worse in the future

> There are few direct travel routes connecting the Eastern Corridor communities and employment centers.  Instead, people are using already crowded roadways to get to their destinations

> People, services and products cannot efficiently travel through the region

> Transportation is currently limited to mostly vehicle-only options

 

Together, these problems are resulting in growing congestion, traffic delays and more accidents.  These in turn have negative effects on the environment through increased levels of fuel consumption, more vehicle emissions and more vehicle miles being traveled. We’ve been concerned about these problems for more than half a decade and they are problems that need a solution.  Built upon a solid foundation of community involvement, the Eastern Corridor Program is working to identify feasible solutions by using a multi-modal approach.

 

Prior to the 1990s, highway-only solutions were proposed to solve traffic problems in eastern Hamilton County and western Clermont County. These plans were not brought to fruition because the associated impacts were too large. Passage of the Intermodal Surface Transpiration Act (ISTEA) in 1991 inspired a fresh approach. Solutions now incorporated additional travel options and included extensive community involvement in all phases of project development. An Eastern Corridor Major Investment Study (MIS) was conducted in the late 1990s by a 65-member Task Force representing Eastern Corridor communities and stakeholder groups. Completed and endorsed by the Task Force in 2000, the MIS recommended in concept the set of transportation improvements now under study.  These include the addition of new rail transit, expanded bus transit, accommodations for bicyclists and walkers as well as expanded roadways and other roadway network improvements.

 

A Land Use Vision Plan (2002) and Green Infrastructure Master Plan (2005) have been developed in partnership with Eastern Corridor communities and stakeholders.  These plans identified how local communities want to look in the future and priorities for development and green space use.  These plans are being actively used to guide development of Eastern Corridor project alternatives.  Additional public workshops and meetings were held as part of the Eastern Corridor Tier I Environmental Impact Study (EIS), approved in 2006, to identify feasible project alignment corridors.

 

Today, we are in the midst of the Tier II EIS process which will conclude by identifying preferred project alternatives. This phase of project development will determine with more clarity and detail the benefits and impacts of the Eastern Corridor projects, including the relocation of the western end of State Route 32.  Right now, there are many questions that have yet to be answered. It is our duty to get those answers and ensure we make informed decisions based on facts regarding how – or if – we should move forward.  To this end, it is absolutely critical that we complete the Tier II study process and get the information needed.

 

I want to emphasize that although the No Build option is and will remain an alternative under consideration, choosing it will mean that none of the Eastern Corridor Program’s proposed transportation solutions will be implemented and the transportation problems currently being experienced in the Eastern Corridor will continue and get worse.  I’d also like to emphasize that we want the transportation solutions chosen for the Eastern Corridor to bolster the communities they serve and minimizing negative impacts to the greatest extent possible is a priority.

 

I encourage the public to continue engaging in the program development process – help us explore the options and possible alternatives. Decisions we make today will have significant consequences for our future.  We owe it to ourselves to base our decisions on the facts.

 

Sincerely,

 

Ted B. Hubbard, P.E.-P.S.

Hamilton County Engineer

 

In response, our member sent these two articles:

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/population-adjusted-vehicle-miles-2012-11#ixzz2DLsSBIKO

And this recent column at: http://allaboardohio.org/2012/11/12/will-the-nations-first-interstate-highway-abandoned-for-lack-of-funds-be-in-ohio/

Not sure if this kills the project, But Madisonville says no.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_east_cincinnati/madisonville/eastern-corridor-project-madisonville-county-council-says-no-thanks-to-proposed-plans

^only if they have somebody rich & politically well connected living in the neighborhood.

 

Latest Eastern Corridor changes begin

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation has broken ground on a key interchange project that is part of the Eastern Corridor initiative aimed at making the east side of the Cincinnati metropolitan area easy to travel to and more accessible.

 

ODOT began reconstructing the Interstate 275/State Route 32 interchange last week. The department and local governments hope to reduce accidents and congestion and deal with “inappropriately spaced roadway access points that require motorists to merge quickly and weave between accelerating traffic.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/08/08/latest-eastern-corridor-changes-begin.html

That design was always kind of goofy anyway. Not like it really really needed done, but I accidentally wound up at the mall rather than on 275 and vice versa a few times before I moved to town. A lot of my friends from college lived close to Eastgate.

One of my biggest headaches going to and from eastern Ohio is that bottleneck. A lot of weaving traffic from I-275 with Eastgate Blvd., and the traffic signals don't help the congestion. Interesting that the span-wire signals were just replaced with nice mast-arms, which will only be replaced in a few years anyways.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/downtown/hamilton-county-commissioner-greg-hartmann-speaks-out-against-300m-light-rail-project

Well that's a surprise. Tout the multimodal reformation of the Eastern Corridor. Then, as things start moving, attack the rail component.

DMUs not electric light rail

I think we should be hearing some news on the Eastern Corridor plan very soon. In terms of whether the highway and/or commuter rail portions of the plan will proceed together or independently.

I would say the recent Cincinnati election bring a slate of anti-streetcar people onto City council and mayor does not forebode well for any rail project in the area in the near future.

Depends if county Dems/Burke want to get behind it. Portune certainly is, for whatever reason. The city has little to do with this project. Mallory and Qualls were supporters of good rail projects, not just any rail project. Portune doesn't seem to be too interested in ROI, considering his disdain for the streetcar and support for Eastern Corridor.

I just love the statement the City has little to do with this project. What? The purpose is to connect the eastern suburbs to the City. If the City is not behind it, how far to you think it will get?

 

I will stand by my statement if the streetcar gets cancelled, this project will not see the light of day for another 20 years.

Wasn't there some rumor that the county commissioners wanted this ready by the All Star Game in 2015?  :roll:

^Portune did. No idea why fans would want to go to the Milford shopping center.

There are more public meetings on the Eastern Corridor rail transit coming this week downtown, Fairfax and Cleremont County.  Does anyone know if this is really going to be off the ground by 2015?  I can' t imagine tracks downtown will be in place in 18 months along with rolling stock.

Yeah I highly doubt it.  I can't see the streetcar getting cancelled, but this getting done in 18 months.  I still personally am completely against this project.  Put rapid transit where people are, not through a bunch of land that isn't that developed and farther out suburbs.  I still cannot believe that with the ridership projections for this that anyone could think that this is worth investing in while the streetcar is not.  Wasson Way is the way to go. :yap:

THERE IS NO FUNDING WHATSOEVER IN PLACE TO BUILD OR OPERATE THIS THING.

 

BUT, you will start to see a battle between Cranley and Wenstrup.  Cranley will attempt to position himself as the person who "got this done".  The highway portion, of course.

Portman wants the streetcar money.