If flooding was a legitimate excuse for demolishing a whole neighborhood then most of the East End and Northside and Camp Washington and California would have been leveled too, but they weren't.  It was just an excuse. 

Those eminent domain cases are kind of funny, in that it's for some reason a big deal now what was commonplace 50 years ago.

 

Eminent domain is much more difficult to administer now. If the property owner agrees to sell, then it's not too bad. If the property owner decides to fight it, it can take two years to work it out in court. They don't actually fight in court for two years; they don't even schedule the court case for two years!

 

Another thing is the complicated system of land ownership. There are sometimes multiple layers of mortgages, foreclosures, probate cases, and all kinds of complicated things that add administrative cost.

 

Sometimes a narrow strip of land needed for something like a road widening costs $50,000 in administrative costs while the property owner only gets $1000 for the land.

 

In the case of the circle proposed in this thread, the owners of Rookwood absolutely have to be on board with the idea. They might end up losing one of their buildings - they may be able to build a new one in a better arrangement though - but it's definitely going to affect them in a big way. If the project also results in a rail stop at the Rookwood shopping center, they may be for it.

Nobody seemed to notice that the Army Corps of Engineers had built the Mill Creek Barrier Dam in the late 1940s, which has kept the West End dry since.

 

The Mill Creek Barrier Dam keeps the streets dry, but not all of the basements. They only close the barrier dam when the river gets close to flood stage, but there were still lots of basements that flooded before the river reached flood stage.

 

Many if not most old basements flood, even on the hilltops, because they don't have sump pumps.  And what did they mean by "flood"?  One inch of water or one foot?

 

The actual lay of the West End drifts downhill from DT Cincinnati, but most of that dip is closest to the Mill Creek.  That's also where they lowest quality construction was.  The buildings closer to DT were much higher quality, as the surviving buildings on the side streets between Central and John prove.

 

If flooding was a legitimate excuse for demolishing a whole neighborhood then most of the East End and Northside and Camp Washington and California would have been leveled too, but they weren't.  It was just an excuse. 

 

Flooding was only one of many factors that led to the demolition of the West End, which was lower than all of the other places you mentioned except perhaps California. Northside was affected by the 1937 flood, but it isn't affected by the river every time it gets to 50 feet.

 

The west end was at a very low elevation relative to the river. I think much of it today has been built up since then.

can somebody move the stuff about flooding and eminent domain?

 

I thought this article today was interesting, I was not aware that there is a federal mandate to develop Wasson as rail as well, any other thoughts or info on that?

I believe the Record of Decision from the planning work done in the early 2000's included a recommendation to preserve right of way for possible rail transit but there is not a  "mandate" to "develop" the Wasson Line.    Even if Norfolk Southern sells the property to the City there is a long way to go before it could connect to downtown or east to Clermont County.

Oh i see, I interpreted that differently I guess, I'm not really very familiar with what the government terms mean outside of EIS statements.

ODOT hopes mediator can ease objections to State Route 32 relocation

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation hopes a mediator can help it satisfy community concerns over the proposed relocation of State Route 32 on Greater Cincinnati’s East Side.

 

Many residents and public officials in East Side communities like Mariemont and Newtown object to the relocation because they believe it will put a highway-type road in their communities, causing environmental and economic problems.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/20/odot-hopes-mediator-can-ease-objections-to-state.html

This Eastern Corridor project keeps going on and on. But I never see anything indicating when it might become a reality, particularly from the view of funding. Where is the funding?, or does this just miraculously appear?  From everything I see it will be a relocation and widening of State Route 32, but little else.

They are building an Interstate Highway. None of the other stuff is going to happen.

This Eastern Corridor project keeps going on and on. But I never see anything indicating when it might become a reality, particularly from the view of funding. Where is the funding?, or does this just miraculously appear?  From everything I see it will be a relocation and widening of State Route 32, but little else.

 

It says a lot that, in your post, you implicitly exempt roadwork from the funding question.

Editorial: ODOT wasting money on Eastern Corridor

Cindi Andrews, [email protected] 4:35 p.m. EDT May 21, 2014

 

 

This opinion is on behalf of the editorial board: Publisher Margaret Buchanan, Editor Carolyn Washburn, and writers Cindi Andrews, Krista Ramsey and Julie Zimmerman.

 

Mariemont doesn't want the Eastern Corridor. Newtown doesn't want it. Madisonville doesn't like it as currently envisioned.

 

So the state's solution is to spend an additional $900,000 changing communities' minds on the project, which would link Downtown with the East Side? The old cliche "throwing good money after bad" comes to mind.

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/editorials/2014/05/21/eastern-corridor-waste-money-editorial/9384267/

This Eastern Corridor project keeps going on and on. But I never see anything indicating when it might become a reality, particularly from the view of funding. Where is the funding?, or does this just miraculously appear?  From everything I see it will be a relocation and widening of State Route 32, but little else.

 

It says a lot that, in your post, you implicitly exempt roadwork from the funding question.

 

Yes, simply because there is always funding for roadwork. And the realignment and widening of Route 32 has been in the plans for a long time. But trying to piggy-back rail into the plan is just not going to happen. The communities adjacent to the realigned 32 have enough concerns about how it will be carried out.

Very good. So encouraging to see the Enquirer taking on a road project. I think they missed some things, though.

 

Most of the projects they recommend spending money on instead are also unnecessary. The only really necessary one is the Western Hills Viaduct.

 

They didn't mention sprawl as a reason this is an unsustainable boondoggle.

 

Related to that, I think what they say about improvements to I-75 having more tangible and immediate development effects is dead wrong. SR-32 would have the more immediate development effects, because I-75 has long passed diminished returns on development vs. increasing capacity. SR-32, OTOH, is absolutely ripe to kick off a sprawlfest, should these plans go forward. Eastern HamCo and Clermont have largely avoided the rampant sprawl that has infected the north, south, and most recently (with I-74) the western suburbs. This project would open the floodgates. Neither development from a widened I-75 nor a relocated and expanded SR-32 are desirable development, though, as they'd ultimately only serve to spread our metro's resources thinner and thinner.

Very good. So encouraging to see the Enquirer taking on a road project. I think they missed some things, though.

 

Most of the projects they recommend spending money on instead are also unnecessary. The only really necessary one is the Western Hills Viaduct.

 

They didn't mention sprawl as a reason this is an unsustainable boondoggle.

 

 

 

Related to that, I think what they say about improvements to I-75 having more tangible and immediate development effects is dead wrong. SR-32 would have the more immediate development effects, because I-75 has long passed diminished returns on development vs. increasing capacity. SR-32, OTOH, is absolutely ripe to kick off a sprawlfest, should these plans go forward. Eastern HamCo and Clermont have largely avoided the rampant sprawl that has infected the north, south, and most recently (with I-74) the western suburbs. This project would open the floodgates. Neither development from a widened I-75 nor a relocated and expanded SR-32 are desirable development, though, as they'd ultimately only serve to spread our metro's resources thinner and thinner.

 

^ Sir, you have totally captured why opposing the Eastern Corridor is so important for Cincinnati and Hamilton County.

Very good. So encouraging to see the Enquirer taking on a road project. I think they missed some things, though.

 

Most of the projects they recommend spending money on instead are also unnecessary. The only really necessary one is the Western Hills Viaduct.

 

They didn't mention sprawl as a reason this is an unsustainable boondoggle.

 

Related to that, I think what they say about improvements to I-75 having more tangible and immediate development effects is dead wrong. SR-32 would have the more immediate development effects, because I-75 has long passed diminished returns on development vs. increasing capacity. SR-32, OTOH, is absolutely ripe to kick off a sprawlfest, should these plans go forward. Eastern HamCo and Clermont have largely avoided the rampant sprawl that has infected the north, south, and most recently (with I-74) the western suburbs. This project would open the floodgates. Neither development from a widened I-75 nor a relocated and expanded SR-32 are desirable development, though, as they'd ultimately only serve to spread our metro's resources thinner and thinner.

 

Quess you haven't been out to Clermont County recently. Talk about sprawl, it is sprawling about as fast as they can build them. My daughter's company recently moved from the Hebron KY area to the Eastgate Area. She has been looking for a house in that locality. One of her concerns is when she finds something she both likes and can afford, it is so far east of I-275. She says to me Dad, if something goes sour with my job, I will be 30 minutes just to the highway. So she has reconsidered and is currently looking around Mason. She says I have been making the commute to Hebron for years. Other than some nasty weather, it has not been that bad other than the wear and tear on the car.

 

At least in Mason, if near I-71, I can be in Eastgate in 30 min. She is proving that daily. If something goes sour with the job, my options are so much more open. I have all of Mason, West Chester, Blue Ash, etc. to solicit employment, including to downtown.

 

Sprawl has been a unsustainable boondoggle for what, at least 6 decades? And it is not going to stop long as people don't desire to be packed together. That is the attraction of the suburbs, I have my own space and if my neighbors act right I can live a peaceful, SAFE, and tranquil life here. And since me and my neighbors pay the majority of the taxes in this country, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

..... so about that Eastern Corridor project.

..... so about that Eastern Corridor project.

 

So what Eastern Corridor Project is being discussed now. The one with the realigned route 32 along with the rail project all the way to downtown, along with the bike trails along with whatever else can be dumped in there. Or a scaled down one with a realigned route 32, no rail, and no other frills, which is what I am hearing is more likely to happen. This bends the rail people out of shape but the reality is where is the funding for rail? It all boils down to the funding - where is it?

 

You can complain about how roads get funded all you want, but the simple fact is the majority of people want roads so organizations like ODOT insure they are funded. If they perceived the demand for rail was as high on the list it would get funded also. The zealots demanding rail are the same ones wanting to transform the nature of our cities and lifestyle. May have a good number of converts, but so far they don't seem to be the majority.

Why does something need to be the majority to be funded? It's INCREDIBLY disproportional the spending on roads vs. rail. That's the problem. We're not "rail zealots" we're part of a very large portion of the population who wants rail. Are we the majority? Maybe not. Does that matter? No. If the proportion of funds spent on rail vs. roads was equal to the demand of people we'd have a lot more rail projects happening in our cities.

 

It's not just demand based. Just look at how big the asphalt lobby in this state is and you'll realize there's a lot more political going on here than just "demand." Especially considering people are quite opposed to this road. If we did what people asked for even those who use roads don't want it. So no, that's not why it's being funded.

You clearly don't understand the dynamic going on right now with the Eastern Corridor, kjbrill. Many of the rail advocates are not supportive of the Oasis Line (part of the Eastern Corridor).

 

Very few residents in Hamilton County are supportive of the road portion of the Eastern Corridor. Mariemont, Oakley, and Newtown all dislike it as a whole. The only people who seem to like this project are planners at ODOT and communities in Clermont County who will see a faster commute into downtown.

^Engineering consultants like it.

Just who are these "rail zealots" disappointed by the prospect of the Oasis line not being built?

Just who are these "rail zealots" disappointed by the prospect of the Oasis line not being built?

 

I am sure you know who the rail zealots are. Those who are constantly advocating rail transportation no matter what. There may be a future for rail, but I frankly don't believe it is here and now. If gasoline prices keep increasing OK, but it will take a national initiative on the scale of the Interstate Highway System to make it happen. That is a huge endeavor and extremely political. All of these local proposals are also extremely political, why do you think they are going nowhere?

But it wouldn't take a national initiative. Most large cities already have and are expanding/building rail as we speak. Ohio is severely behind in the rail game. Rail is NOW, not the future. Access to proper transit is very often the first or second criteria for millennials when looking for a residence. We're just now getting into the housing and job market. If it's what our generation wants, why should we be forced to wait while we spend billions annually on more roads when we're driving a HUGE amount less and taking transit a large amount more and are demanding better and more rail nationwide? That makes almost no sense. We're not building cities for your generation anymore. I know that sounds bad, but you've passed the age where your desires are relevant to the overall structure of our built environment, primarily our cities. The tens of millions of millennials now looking to start adult life want something different from you and we shouldn't have to sit back and watch the leaders continue building as if it was 1985 and suburban flight was still alive and well. That would be reckless and would position ourselves for failure in the future.

I will be 30 minutes just to the highway. So she has reconsidered and is currently looking around Mason.

This anecdote illustrates the point perfectly. Your daughter would likely be buying a house in some newly minted greenfield subdivision out east if SR-32 (or I-74) were extended out that way. Instead she is looking to purchase in an established community. Hence the floodgates I was talking about if the Eastern Corridor plan comes to fruition.

 

Sprawl has been a unsustainable boondoggle for what, at least 6 decades? And it is not going to stop long as people don't desire to be packed together. That is the attraction of the suburbs, I have my own space and if my neighbors act right I can live a peaceful, SAFE, and tranquil life here. And since me and my neighbors pay the majority of the taxes in this country, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

But look at the original sprawl communities, like North College Hill, Springdale, Fairfield, Forest Park, Monfort Heights, Mt. Healthy. You probably wouldn't consider them safe enough. What happens to Mason when the 2x4 & drywall construction starts to crumble?

 

Sprawl subsidies (like SR-32) remind me a lot of the claims about how America has become full of people dependent on the state, so they vote for more handouts. That's exactly what I hear you saying when I hear the refrain "the majority wants roads." The majority wants their handouts. That doesn't make appeasing the majority a sound investment. Although, in this case, it doesn't even seem like the majority wants it. Certainly not in the Hamilton County communities it would allegedly "serve."

 

Edit: "The bottom line is that the type of development that’s been ongoing [in most American communities] can’t ever generate enough tax revenue to pay to provide the infrastructure, amenities, and services necessary to support it." - Aaron Renn

Just who are these "rail zealots" disappointed by the prospect of the Oasis line not being built?

 

I am sure you know who the rail zealots are. Those who are constantly advocating rail transportation no matter what. There may be a future for rail, but I frankly don't believe it is here and now. If gasoline prices keep increasing OK, but it will take a national initiative on the scale of the Interstate Highway System to make it happen. That is a huge endeavor and extremely political. All of these local proposals are also extremely political, why do you think they are going nowhere?

 

I don't know who you're talking about. The consensus among rail advocates seems to be that the rail portion of the Eastern Corridor is a bad investment.

I am sure you know who the rail zealots are. Those who are constantly advocating rail transportation no matter what. There may be a future for rail, but I frankly don't believe it is here and now. If gasoline prices keep increasing OK, but it will take a national initiative on the scale of the Interstate Highway System to make it happen. That is a huge endeavor and extremely political. All of these local proposals are also extremely political, why do you think they are going nowhere?

 

You mean groups like All Aboard Ohio? We will support this corridor only if it goes via Wasson Way -- from the outset.

 

The future for rail is now. The worldwide market for rail capital investment over the next decade is in the trillions of dollars. Even the Middle East and North Africa (the world's central bank of oil) is investing $76.2 billion in rail -- far in excess of what the USA is investing. But yet somehow we can't afford it.

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/09/11/asia-and-middle-east-to-spend-trillions-of-dollars-on-transport-infrastructure/

 

See also my article outlining the USA investment in passenger rail on Page 16 at:

http://freepdfhosting.com/1231f4f41b.pdf

 

Please read these articles before commenting further. Thanks.

..... so about that Eastern Corridor project.

 

So what Eastern Corridor Project is being discussed now. The one with the realigned route 32 along with the rail project all the way to downtown, along with the bike trails along with whatever else can be dumped in there. Or a scaled down one with a realigned route 32, no rail, and no other frills, which is what I am hearing is more likely to happen. This bends the rail people out of shape but the reality is where is the funding for rail? It all boils down to the funding - where is it?

 

You can complain about how roads get funded all you want, but the simple fact is the majority of people want roads so organizations like ODOT insure they are funded. If they perceived the demand for rail was as high on the list it would get funded also. The zealots demanding rail are the same ones wanting to transform the nature of our cities and lifestyle. May have a good number of converts, but so far they don't seem to be the majority.

 

Read the following and get back to me: http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/

You can complain about how roads get funded all you want, but the simple fact is the majority of people want roads so organizations like ODOT insure they are funded. If they perceived the demand for rail was as high on the list it would get funded also. The zealots demanding rail are the same ones wanting to transform the nature of our cities and lifestyle. May have a good number of converts, but so far they don't seem to be the majority.

 

Goodness, you are living in an isolated world up there in Mason.  There's a huge population of people who are actively promoting transit.  It's not some old group of railfans missing the pays of yore.  It's a growing contingency of young people who've had the opportunity to explore the rest of the world and are quickly realizing that we are falling behind on the global shift away from automobile dependance.  It's not some agenda to force people out of their cars...it's an agenda to make funding between roads and transit proportional.

You can complain about how roads get funded all you want, but the simple fact is the majority of people want roads so organizations like ODOT insure they are funded.

 

I've seen more and more polls that people want a balanced transportation system that offers choices, rather than be forced to drive everywhere to accomplish everything. And ODOT is a poor example. It spends only 1% of its budget on anything other than the roads, while 9% of households have no cars -- many more households have multiple wage earners sharing just one car. Would it kill ODOT to spend 10% of its budget to diversify the transportation system? The answer is yes, according to the roadbuilders who are feeding at the public trough and sending some of that money back to the politicians to make sure this machine keeps building more lane-miles we don't need and can't afford to maintain.

SOURCE: http://allaboardohio.org/2012/11/12/will-the-nations-first-interstate-highway-abandoned-for-lack-of-funds-be-in-ohio/

 

Remember, it takes up to 250 years for a new urban lane-mile of highway to generate enough gas tax revenues to equal the original construction cost of that lane-mile (good thing roads pay for themselves).....

SOURCE: http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop08039/cp_prim1_02.htm

 

 

 

 

Just who are these "rail zealots" disappointed by the prospect of the Oasis line not being built?

 

I am sure you know who the rail zealots are. Those who are constantly advocating rail transportation no matter what. There may be a future for rail, but I frankly don't believe it is here and now. If gasoline prices keep increasing OK, but it will take a national initiative on the scale of the Interstate Highway System to make it happen. That is a huge endeavor and extremely political. All of these local proposals are also extremely political, why do you think they are going nowhere?

 

As opposed to the current "highways-uber-alles" approach by ODOT? Pardon me, but there are is a substantial portion of Ohio's populace that is not served by this state's one-size-fits-all approach to transportation policy. If you are healthy and can afford to drive, you're golden. If you can't drive or don't want to drive, you are banished to a nether world of second class status. It can be VERY difficult to get around in Ohio without a car.

 

As for us "rail-zealots"...that's an offensive term. Most of us simply want a choice. We are smart enough to realize that the good old days are dead and will not return. By the same token, you conveniently miss the fact that Amtrak and transit ridership has been breaking records for better than a decade and that long term trends suggest that this will only continue. Meanwhile, driving is declining and airlines are pulling back, all well documented on these pages.

 

We are in a creeping mobility crisis, as has been pointed out here. You should read these posts and learn. The only thing holding back even more ridership increases for non-highway transportation is the still-one-sided policies that starve the very modes which are increasing while continuing to shower money on dubious projects such as the Eastern Corridor.

 

As to local projects going nowhere, I'm sure the proponents of the Cincinnati streetcar would disagree. However, transit and rail projects have to run the gauntlet at the ballot box or Congressional appropriations process that highways do not. That immediately subjects non-highway transportation to a disadvantage. Streetcar supporters had to put an initiative before the public, fight off two attempts to kill it at the ballot box and overcome a mayor's opposition, not to mention the fact that our anti-rail governor yanked $50 million in state-administered federal funds from the project.

 

Meanwhile, we don't vote on road projects because they have dedicated funding and the weight of a powerful lobby behind it. These same interests also bankroll anti-rail "think tanks" and paid hit men who go around the country trying to kill transit and rail projects. It's all very one-sided.

Just noticed that I somehow have two posts! Disregard the first one. Thanks.

New thread in Roads & Biking: Wasson Way Trail

Interesting look at the Eastern Corridor.  Big decisions coming up, and more people seem to be willing to speak out against it on the record. 

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2014/07/08/die-eastern-corridor/12327503/

 

 

Some other East Side communities are simply indifferent to the project, mainly because funding appears unrealistic. Anderson Township has officially written a letter of support for the project, but “nobody in the local communities really sees this incredible benefit to building this thing,” said Russell Jackson, an Anderson Township trustee. “Nobody complains about traffic. It’s a non-issue from our perspective.”

 

But evidence that this project encourages, sprawl, the residents further out in the next county are the only supporters:

...the project has tremendous support from Clermont County residents and leaders who want a more direct, less congested way to get Downtown.....

Just a bad idea whose time has come. And gone.

The language shift when it comes to talking about the rail portion is absolutely fascinating. Suddenly there is a discussion of development potential and ROI, which is completely absent from the rest of the article.

^ great point.  ROI is never mentioned with regards to the highway, only when rail is mentioned.

Some other East Side communities are simply indifferent to the project, mainly because funding appears unrealistic. Anderson Township has officially written a letter of support for the project, but “nobody in the local communities really sees this incredible benefit to building this thing,” said Russell Jackson, an Anderson Township trustee. “Nobody complains about traffic. It’s a non-issue from our perspective.”

 

But evidence that this project encourages, sprawl, the residents further out in the next county are the only supporters:

...the project has tremendous support from Clermont County residents and leaders who want a more direct, less congested way to get Downtown.....

 

Pretty snooty and self-absorbed of people in Clermont to move there and then demand their commute into the city be made simpler. They choose to move there knowing the current transportation network and situation.

 

Of course, someone could say the same thing about CBD/OTR transplants and our demand to complete the streetcar. Pretty similar situations, I think.

Pretty snooty and self-absorbed of people in Clermont to move there and then demand their commute into the city be made simpler. They choose to move there knowing the current transportation network and situation.

 

Of course, someone could say the same thing about CBD/OTR transplants and our demand to complete the streetcar. Pretty similar situations, I think.

I don't think so - especially because of the communities in between.

^^ Similar, apart from streetcar development being greater than zero-sum and costing an order of magnitude less.

 

Just what $130m portion (or any portion (including the whole), really) of the Eastern Corridor are the likes of GE or the RNC going to cite as motivation to consider (or choose) locating in the region? How many boomerang Cincinnatians will it inspire to return home?

Bill Collins ·  Top Commenter · Wentworth Institute of Technology

As a Madisonville resident and long-time participant in this issue, I'd like to make three points:

 

1) Jason Williams did a good job with this article in explaining where we are now with the "Eastern Corridor" proposal and what's likely to happen next.

 

2) Notice how Jason reports that very few people and local officials who live in the Eastern Corridor planning area support the project. That's a critical point, which I'll try to explain later as best I can.

 

3) In Madisonville, we see things differently than the officials who are determined to build this new east/west Eastern Corridor highway. Unlike them, we look back to how this all started in the 1970s, when the State

* designed and built I-71 poorly,

* designed and built the Red Bank Expressway connector road to I-71 poorly, and

* how these bad design have negatively affected traffic flow and development in and around our community ever since these roads opened (and other streets were closed) in the 1970s.

 

QUESTION: WHO DOES SUPPORT THIS THING? ANSWER: PUBLIC OFFICIALS WHO DON'T LIVE HERE

Ever since I started going to the Eastern Corridor meetings 4-5 years ago, I've puzzled over this question, because it has always been so obvious that people who live in what's called the "Eastern Corridor planning area" of Hamilton County tend *not* to want it.

 

So, who DOES want this plan? As I understand it, when Todd Portune chairs these meetings of the OKI Regional Council of Governments, Todd has to sit there listening to Kentucky officials complain regularly about how they don't like motorists from Ohio driving on "their" I-275 from the Ohio River bridge near Coney Island over to I-471, and then driving on "their" I-471 to reach Downtown Cincinnati. So, these Kentucky officials press Mr. Portune to insist that Ohio use up about $1 billion of our state's share of scarce federal highway funding for this "Eastern Corridor highway" to fix "their" problem -- a fix that will cost Kentucky officials zero money from their federal "money pot."

 

Also, officials in Clermont County, Ohio have complained -- rightly so -- for years about how inadequate Route 32 is to handle the traffic demands on it. As the article reports, they are finally getting much of what they want as the I-275/Route 32 interchange is rebuilt at a cost of $75 million, and the entire stretch of Route 32 from the Hamilton/Clermont County line to Batavia is rebuilt during the next few years.

 

In my view, where the Clermont officials "go off the rails" (excuse the pun) and where the Kentucky officials go off the rails when they complain at these OKI meetings is when they insist on ramming this "Eastern Corridor" roadway through HAMILTON County, where almost nobody is buying what they are selling.

 

SO WHAT'S THE SOLUTION?

LET'S KILL THE "EASTERN CORRIDOR" IDEA AND REPLACE IT WITH SOMETHING CHEAPER AND SMARTER

The money for the Clermont County portions of this project is now in the bag. So, let's finish all that work. The folks in Clermont County deserve it.

 

But, as for the traffic/development issues in *Hamilton* County, we need to end this idea of an "Eastern Corridor" in Hamlton County.

 

Then, after this "Eastern Corridor" idea for Hamilton County is laid to rest, we can start a new planning process involving the Hamilton County communities. This new planning process would address the real transit, commuter traffic, development issues, recreational, bicycle and pedestrian issues that are important to us here in Eastern Hamilton County. As the old slate is cleaned and this new discussion unfolds on a new White Board, I'm confident that a a cheaper, smarter 21st Century plan will emerge that will benefit us here in eastern Hamilton County.

 

I'm sure of it

 

Comment seems to be spot on

Eastern Corridor = ethnocide

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2014/07/08/opinion-eastern-corridor-continues-ethnocide/12363755/

As someone who grew up in Clermont County, I am all for this entire project.

 

It has been sad to see perfectly convenient areas in Clermont continue to fester in white-trash-spawning low land values and lack of sophisticated developer interest, all because you have to go around half the metro area to get into Cincinnati instead of enjoying a direct route through...what? An already-urbanized river tributary? A dog park? Flood plains?

 

This is and always has been about putting real infrastructure a little too close to the rich f*cks along the base of Indian Hill. Meanwhile, Cincinnati continues to burst northward towards Lebanon, because that's where the infrastructure investments have been made. For some metros, such an uneven development pattern would be due to geographic constraints. In Cincinnati, it's because a swatch of rich people half the size of a county didn't want any big roads.

A lot of people hate the Newtown cops too.

^I can see your point, but just because we have screwed up and fostered exurban growth in Warren and Butler counties doesn't mean we should turn the tap on in Clermont, too, does it? 

 

And yes, it is a pain getting into downtown from the east side.  In fact, SR32 is pretty screwed up as soon as you get to, say, Mt. Orab.  When I travel home to Jackson County--a straight shot on 32--I rarely take 32, and normally go up 71 and over 35, because it is much easier and better.  Question becomes, I guess, does it justify this project. 

I think I read somewhere that the Eastern Corridor road improvements, such as they are, will raise the average speed in the corridor by about 2 MPH.

As someone who grew up in Clermont County, I am all for this entire project.

 

It has been sad to see perfectly convenient areas in Clermont continue to fester in white-trash-spawning low land values and lack of sophisticated developer interest, all because you have to go around half the metro area to get into Cincinnati instead of enjoying a direct route through...what? An already-urbanized river tributary? A dog park? Flood plains?

 

This is and always has been about putting real infrastructure a little too close to the rich f*cks along the base of Indian Hill. Meanwhile, Cincinnati continues to burst northward towards Lebanon, because that's where the infrastructure investments have been made. For some metros, such an uneven development pattern would be due to geographic constraints. In Cincinnati, it's because a swatch of rich people half the size of a county didn't want any big roads.

 

I grew up in Clermont County as well and I see your point.

 

Looking back at our region's history, there are a lot of things we should have done differently with our infrastructure. We should have completed the subway. We should have made sure that Cincinnati's major airport was built somewhere in Ohio. And yes, we should have build the eastern segment of the Ronald Reagan Highway, providing a more direct route from Clermont County into Cincinnati. (Actually, we should have just built a much smaller I-275 loop, with the northern portion being where the Ronald Reagan Highway is now.)

 

But just because we have had an insane amount of sprawl to the north does not mean that we should use that as an excuse to justify a new highway to the east. Clermont County does not inherently "deserve" a speedy interstate-class highway connection to Cincinnati. Notice that Clermont County supports the Eastern Corridor while Hamilton County neighborhoods oppose it. That's because Clermont County get the benefits (low-value land potentially turned into new subdivisions and strip malls) while Hamilton County gets sliced up with yet another highway.

 

As some point we need to face the reality of future growth trends. People are driving less. More people want to be closer to the urban core. Fewer people want auto-dependent lifestyles. Let's use our limited transportation dollars to fix our existing highways and bridges, and then built the type of infrastructure that is being demanded by the next generation, rather than building new highways and inducing more sprawl.

I don't think this is even about opening up new land for development, it's just about making the existing areas of Clermont more attractive and efficient. There is so much poorly developed and under-developed property hugging I-275. I think what I am saying is that it might be 14 miles from downtown, but economically it's developed about the same as South Lebanon or Monroe, which are 25 miles away.

 

Cincinnati as a region deserves balanced, efficient growth. Clermont is just part of that equation. Ignoring the access problem from Clermont isn't going to make it go away. 275 is already a parking lot from 71 to Milford during rush hour. You're right, 275 is much too large, and the eastern arc of it serves no efficient purpose right now for access OR mobility.

 

What I really don't understand is Hamilton's opposition. Where is it coming from? I frankly don't think 95% of Hamilton county even cares. I've been traveling that corridor my whole life. There is nothing important down there, it's just floodplain. Newtown is nothing. It couldn't possibly be so politically powerful that it thwarts this whole project. My intuition is that the East Side thinks of the Little Miami river as a kind of bulwark against Appalachia.

 

But growth follows infrastructure. We might justify a new highway to the east side to serve existing residents, but what'll happen is that new development will result and the highway will end up being clogged up in a few years. Then we'll use that congestion to justify an expansion.