May 23, 200619 yr I'm sure you've all heard, but there's an open house downtown on Thursday: Metro’s Government Square downtown transit hub will reopen this summer. The new facility will allow more Metro routes to use the new Government Square area, making transfers more convenient. However, this will change the downtown routing for several Metro routes. An open house about the downtown routing changes will be held on Thursday, May 25, 2006, 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., at the Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County, Huenefeld Tower Room, third floor. You may stop by anytime during the open house. Metro employees will be available to answer your questions. For those who can't attend, the SORTA website has a routing map and comment sheet: http://www.sorta.com/
June 9, 200619 yr I like how it ties in Cincy's "trinity" streetscape standards with modern materials, it is certainly a big improvement!
June 9, 200619 yr ^ okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't know what a trinity streetscape standard it! I do like the new design. :)
June 9, 200619 yr I'm not sure I like the design yet, but I'm open to being won over by it. I just got really turned off to that general design idea by this bus-stop looking "Preview Pavilion" on UC's campus: Given that this is, in fact, a bus stop, and it's put together much more nicely, with suspension-bridge echoes and all that, I might well dig it when it's all in place...
June 10, 200619 yr What's a trinity streetscape standard? LOL, I just meant that Cincy's downtown streetscape standards usually consist of 3 posts, at least up mast arm height. *Standard is a term for the actual pole/post part of a streetlight.
June 11, 200619 yr ^ ahhh yes i understand now...those three pole "standards" are crap. some of them dont have anything on them too
June 11, 200619 yr Did anybody notice that the kiosk building is engraved: "Charles P. Taft" "Government Square" Why on earth can't it just be "Government Square"
June 11, 200619 yr I had no idea who Charles P. Taft actually was...a little googling: http://www.gwu.edu/~erpapers/mep/displaydoc.cfm?docid=erpn-chataf Charles P. Taft, the son of President William Howard Taft and brother of Senator Robert Alphonso Taft, was born in Cincinnati, Ohio, and attended Yale University. After completing his World War I service in the U.S. Army, Taft opened a successful law practice and, like his father before him, became an influential, active Republican. Charles Taft was more liberal than his brother, with whom he practiced law, and his father, who was chief justice of the Supreme Court. Charles supported reform movements and fought against the political machine in Cincinnati. During World War II, he served in the State Department Office of Wartime Economic Affairs and in 1945 was an adviser to the U.S. delegation to the San Francisco Conference that led to the creation of the United Nations. Also that same year, Taft began his twenty-two year service on the city council where he worked closely with the city's Charter Committee Party's crusade for "better local government." In 1952 he won the Republican nomination for governor only to lose to Democrat Frank Lausche, who occupied the governorship until 1957. In 1955 Taft was elected mayor of Cincinnati and during his tenure pursued an agenda that included slum clearance, public assistance for needy citizens, and improved labor relations. After serving one term, he sought the governorship a second time only to be defeated in the Republican primary. He returned to his law practice and remained involved in civic activities, especially working to encourage the Republican party to end any support of racial discrimination. He died in Cincinnati in 1983.
June 11, 200619 yr I'm still not sure what he has to do with a bus station. What a bad move on Metro's part.
June 11, 200619 yr Do you mean that someone has to have something to do with whatever their name is on? What does John Kennedy have to do with an airport in New York? What does Reagan have to do with an airport in DC? Or Albert Savin with a convention center? What does Robert A. Taft have to do with a high school in the West End? Or Wm. Howard Taft with a street? Nothing directly I suppose, but people have this funny habit of naming things after important people as a way of honoring and remembering them. Go figure. Clearly, Charles P. Taft was an important figure in Cincinnati — especially in the city's government. Makes sense to me. And naming something after him had the desired result: RiverViewer took the time to look him up and learned a few things. At any rate, I'm sure everyone will go right on calling it plain old Government Square, so you needn't be too concerned. Just like everyone still calls the John A. Roebling Suspension Bridge just "The Suspension Bridge." What did Roebling have to do with that bridge anyway?
June 11, 200619 yr What did Roebling have to do with that bridge anyway? He built it. (in the event that wasn't a rhetorical question)
June 11, 200619 yr Yes, all of those things are named after people, but I do not agree with naming public spaces after people unless they happened to have something to do with the place itself or championed the purpose or ideals it represents. For example, the Potter Stewart Federal Courthouse, the Roebling Bridge, Woodward High School, Corbett Auditorium, etc. The Robert P. Taft Government Square is gratuitous.
June 12, 200619 yr Interestingly, the only reference to Taft relating to transit that I found was that he testified in congress the 50's for keeping highway funds in a trust fund so they could only be used for roads projects. Perhaps an ironical choice for a public transit naming honor... Here's the relevant text from a Congressional Budget Office background paper called "Highway Assistance Programs: A Historical Perspective," from February 1978 (starting on page 42 of this .pdf): The only direct proposal for formally dedicating highway-related receipts came from Mayor Charles P. Taft of Cincinnati, Ohio. He pointed out that Ohio had a consitutional provision that fuel taxes must be used for roads, and that: The money raised should certainly be put in a trust fund....We are required to do it in Ohio, and find no difficulty in practice....All gasoline and license taxes are put in a trust fund and can only be used for roads and immediately related purposes. Although the bill under consideration did not contain a trust fund provision, the bill's sponsor, Congressmand Hale Boggs of Louisiana, clearly agreed when he stated: ...that is exactly what we are trying to do, use all the fuel tax and all the other user taxes for roads. The bill reported by the House Ways and Means Committee, and eventually passed by the full House, did contain a trust fund provision. The Republican members, possibly swayed by Mayor Taft's testimony, submitted "Supplemental Views" in which they assumed responsibility for the provision...
June 12, 200619 yr Wasn't the city looking at naming something after Rosa Parks? Wouldn't it have made more sense to name it after here? I am sure most people will just call it Government Square though. As for the bridge, I call it the "Roebling Bridge" and I don't anyone that refers to it as just the "Suspension Bridge". I think it isn't a good comparision because it is natural to want to identify your bridge by name so it has more importance throughout the world, adding Roebling to the name of the bridge gave it more importance over a generic name that one could not identify with in another state. A bus stop is a bus stop no matter how cool it looks. Train Stations are one thing but bus stops have never been iconic facilities. So maybe that is why they didn't name it after Rosa Parks, maybe it would have been an insult to her name.
June 12, 200619 yr ^The road that goes from N to S that passes the west side of the Freedom Center is called "Rosa Parks Rd., or St.".
June 12, 200619 yr Of course I know that John Roebling built the bridge... that's what we call sarcasm. I also know that Charles P. Taft II is "Mr. Cincinnati." Here's a guy that could've been a national political figure (son of a president and all), but wanted to serve his city, which he did for decades. He's essentially the preeminent public servant. I could be wrong, but is he honored anywhere for it? Maybe government sqaure isn't the best fit, I'll grant that, but I get the impression that they just want to give props to guy who should've gotten them long ago. Murray Seasongood has a park and a pavillion in a park, after all. While googling is a handy way to find information quickly, the fact that RiverViewer didn't find anything doesn't mean Taft didn't do it. We don't know that he didn't have anything to do with transit, or that he as steadfastly anti-transit. For all we know, he was involved in building the federal courthouse or in the many renovations the area has already undergone. Considering he served on Council from '38-'42, '48-'51, and '55-'77, that's not an outrageuos assumption. According to wikipedia, "He was an avid fan of the Cincinnati Reds baseball team and sometimes listened to games on the radio with an earplug during city council meetings." The guy should get something named for him just for that alone. Monte, the reason you call it the Roebling Bridge might be because you didn't live here when it wasn't called that. All the locals I know call it the Suspension Bridge.
June 12, 200619 yr Yes, all of those things are named after people, but I do not agree with naming public spaces after people unless they happened to have something to do with the place itself or championed the purpose or ideals it represents. For example, the Potter Stewart Federal Courthouse, the Roebling Bridge, Woodward High School, Corbett Auditorium, etc. The Robert P. Taft Government Square is gratuitous. He championed Cincinnati. It's better than naming it after someone who isn't from here. It's better than naming it after someone who paid for it. It's better than naming it for the guy who got funding for it (Brent Spence Bridge, anyone?). It's only made slightly worse by the fact that we don't know if he had anything do with Government Square. And that some people prefer brevity, even though everyone will still call it Gov't Square. It strikes me as odd that people that clearly enjoy Cincinnati would be against naming something after a man who gave more to the city than any of us ever will. Go figure.
June 12, 200619 yr This argument about Charles P. Taft is a little beside the point, since Government Square has been named after him for years. I'm not in town so I don't know if they are still there or not, but those little square (green?) street signs that exist exclusively downtown have "Charles P. Taft Government Square" printed on them. Look for them. Charlie Taft was a good and honorable public servant back when you could still find a couple in the Republican Party (George Voinovich is probably the only left). When he ran for office in city elections, he ran as a Charterite, in state elections, as a Republican. Anyone who wants to learn more about Charlie Taft can go to the smallest National Park in the United States, right up in Mt. Auburn on Auburn Avenue, the Wm. Howard Taft Birthplace. Charles P. Taft II should not be confused with his uncle, Charles Phelps Taft, older half-brother of Wm. H. and last resident of the Taft Museum. Charles P. Taft was an avid fisherman, to the extent that his tombstone reads, "Gone Fishin'". Those are just a few fun Charlie Taft facts. I guess kendall thinks that "Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport" is appropriately named because he fired striking airline workers. Or maybe Boeing contributed to his campaigns. I was in college in DC when they tacked Reagan's name onto the front, and I thought it was hilarious that some Republican congressman said, "Finally this airport is named for a president." Uhh, what about George Washington? Cramer, your vitriol against this complaint is much appreciated by me, of course (and I'm not being sarcastic). However I think your example of Brent Spence is unfair and unfounded. Brent Spence was a long term Kentucky Congressman, so I really have no problem with him being honored in the way he was. Plus "Brent Spence Bridge" sounds awesome, and anyone who thinks otherwise probably enjoys going to Coldplay concerts.
June 12, 200619 yr And Brent Spence may have been an excellent Congressman, but I chafe somewhat at the appearance of any sort quid pro quo -- for naming something after a guy who helped get the funding to make it happen. I'm getting out of my depth though, since I don't know too much about Spence the man or the bridge.
July 16, 200618 yr Any updates? When is Government Square set to offically open? Once the main bus depot opens are they going to remove the two other glass waiting areas that still remain on Walnut and 5th?
July 16, 200618 yr Walked by it the other night after the Reds game. All the lights were on. It was stunning.
July 29, 200618 yr They were taking up all the pylons around the square tonight and had it all lit up. It looked awesome! I wonder when they'll convert the two remaining bus stops? I hope they're lit as well as the main square.
August 11, 200618 yr Government Square to be dedicated Aug. 18 Cincinnati Business Courier - 5:04 PM EDT Wednesday The $9.3 million Government Square redesign, a year in the making, will come to a close Aug. 18, with a dedication ceremony by Metro and the city of Cincinnati. The transit hub, at Fifth and Walnut streets downtown, will go into service Aug. 20, with features including larger shelters, accessible boarding, easier transfers and a security camera system, Metro said in a news release. The hub includes an information booth that will be staffed from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. on weekdays. And the square also will be an Internet wireless hot spot, thanks to the Lily Pad project that is bringing the service to sites around the city. Read full article here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/08/07/daily37.html
August 11, 200618 yr What time of day is this ceremony going to occur....I would like to attend but if I dont know what time, I cant work it into my schedule :| Walked by GS the other day and it looks fantastic.....another great removal of the disgusting concrete mess of the 80's. This is a vast improvement both functionally and aesthetically over the previous version! Well done Metro :clap:
August 18, 200618 yr Safety 'No. 1' key to bus hub renovation By Joe Wessels Decreasing the chances of getting hit by a bus downtown is a good thing. That's just one of the features of a newly redesigned Government Square transit hub ready to open along Fifth Street, between Walnut and Main streets. The $9.3 million project will be dedicated Friday and be ready for regular bus traffic starting Sunday. The design allows for major safety and logistical improvements over the former structure, built in the early 1970s, said Michael Setzer, chief executive officer and general manager of Metro, the local transit service. Back then, designers did not account for disabled riders and the need to sometimes cross multiple lanes of bus traffic to get to a particular bus stop. The old facility had cobblestone pavement that made it difficult to navigate for visually impaired people or those in wheelchairs, and was too narrow for buses with wheelchair lifts to operate them there. The new Government Square has been reconfigured into an east-west design with two long lanes for bus traffic and five bus stops under a continuous shelter. People walk along the south side of the shelter to get to their stop and pedestrians will have access again to the sidewalk on the north side of the street along Fifth Street. Read full article here: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060817/NEWS01/608170384
August 18, 200618 yr i stopped by during the open house...they had the NEW buses all lined up. First off...it is pretty impressive I was with friends who haven't been downtown for a while and after seeing this and after me explaining the fountain square project they were all pretty enthusiastic about downtown. They asked if we should come down for some bengals games later in the season...i said that "i think that is the kind of things that they are planning"...this project is just one of many that hopefully will slowly change the perception Secondly, The buses are pretty neat...i think that the plan is to have 40 of the new buses in service on monday the buses seem much more modern... there are no steps when you get on, so it is a little different...they look good... all in all...good project
August 19, 200618 yr More than a bus stop Government Square shows off new shelters, better access for handicapped BY DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER "We believe that the spreading out and perpetuity of the institution of slavery impairs the general welfare." - Abraham Lincoln, from a speech given at Government Square, Sept. 17, 1859. The city's oldest gathering place is now firmly wired into the 21st century. Over the years, Government Square has been a place for people and machinery. Abraham Lincoln gave a speech here, about the time it was becoming known as a transportation center. Jerk cars - horse-drawn wagons named for their less-than-smooth ride - gathered in the 19th century alongside trolley cars, cable cars, bicycles and, later, new-fangled automobiles. On Friday, officials opened a glistening new Government Square that mixes the city's future with its past. The square opens to bus riders Sunday. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060819/NEWS01/608190356/1077
August 19, 200618 yr I stopped by on my lunch for the open house yesterday. The place is beautiful. It is also much more respectful of pedestrians than the old. The new buses are nice, they are like the ones that Tank uses.
August 19, 200618 yr Credit for this amazing improvement goes to many people, but the guy who deserves the most credit for its execution is Tim Reynolds, METRO's long-time director of strategic planning. Working with great engineers and architects, Tim sweated-out every detail over the last few years. Tim Reynolds is one of many unsung heroes working behind the scenes to improve Cincinnati's public realm. If you haven't seen Government Square at night, take the time to do so. It's a gift to Cincinnati's most important street.
August 20, 200618 yr Ok who will be the first UrbanOhioian that will take the first photo of the new buses?
August 21, 200618 yr Wow. It sure didn't take very long to start the negative articles. Why interview uninformed people who think that this was paid for by bus fares? Riders like new Government Square But they balk at $9.3 million tab Post staff report Almost 30 years ago, then-Vice President Walter Mondale came to downtown Cincinnati to dedicate a new kind of bus stop. The Government Square bus stop on the south side of the federal courthouse featured several lanes for buses to drop off and pick up passengers along Fifth Street, between Walnut and Main streets. Unfortunately, the paths of people and buses sometimes crossed, causing safety problems. The design also didn't anticipate and accommodate buses with wheelchair lifts for disabled people. So work on a $9.3 million redesign and renovation began a year ago, featuring safer bus lanes and improved facilities for people waiting to catch buses. The new bus stop opened Sunday, and bus riders were impressed, although some were shocked by the $9.3 million cost. Read full article here: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060821/NEWS01/608210354/1010/RSS01
August 22, 200618 yr Did anyone else notice that there was no mention in this article that the city only paid 1.8 million for it and the rest came from the State and Federal gov'ts? I just find this irresponsible and wreckless reporting.
August 22, 200618 yr ^Unfortionetly I've already met them and I've come to expect nothing more from them either. But thats already being discussed in another thread
August 22, 200618 yr There was actually a protester out for the open house the Friday before it opened. Her sign said something about using the money for schools instead. If you're going to stand out there, at least be informed. As you said, only $1.8 million was paid by the city. Not to mention that the school board and city are completely separate entities, and a billion is already being spent on a massive capital improvement project for the schools.
August 22, 200618 yr She was misinformed. But I thought it was interesting that public transportation in Cincinnati had finally become important enough to attract at least one picket, however misguided. In a way, that's progress.
September 11, 200618 yr Here are a few pics of the (mostly) completed Government Square that I took on Labor Day.
September 11, 200618 yr I am not critical of the appearance of the design, but the "shelters" don't appear to do much a of a job blocking the elements in any regard, unlike the previous bus shelters. Having to stand out in the sun or rain or snow sucks -- it gives people a pretty valid reason to avoid mass transit.
September 11, 200618 yr jake, from these angles, it looks like you're right. these shelters appear to fail at the one and only thing that they're intended to do.
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