So the option is on the land that hugs One Cleveland Center's garage? I know that was marked in the plans as possibly being used for part of the Avenue District - that'd be nice to see!

I wonder if this is old news. When did they buy his option? From the tone of the article, its sounds like it was secured recently.

My best guess is they are formalizing the plans for this parcel in order to get these units grandfathered in under the current tax abatement policy.

A older Zaremba print calls East 13th & Payne a "future development site".  No mention of the One Cleveland Center site.  So this seems like a new development.

Sky,

 

The original map does include the One Cleveland Center location as a 'future development site'.

Good thing they, rather than someone else, grabbed up that lot. Just looking on a map made it a logical spot to develop. With Zaremba in control of the land, it hopefully stops a new surface lot from popping up there; and when developed, create a more unified streetscape (not parking lot street).

When they say that Stark will be replicating his "suburban lifestyle center concept" it makes me ill.  How many articles will they force that line into?

When they say that Stark will be replicating his "suburban lifestyle center concept" it makes me ill.  How many articles will they force that line into?

 

I cringe whenever they make that statement. 

^ i agree.  if they are going to make reference to suburban lifestyle centers, they should put it into context, something like:

 

"re-developing downtown with retail and other amenities that previously have existed downtown, but in recent years been primarily developed in lifestyle centers in the suburbs."

 

So shoot Mr. Gomez an email an let him know.

 

Henry J. Gomez, [email protected]

It says "the developer also owns land on the southern side of St. Clair. Plans for the south side of St. Clair are undetermined."

Undetermined?  I thought this was already to be a "unifying" next phase, even before considering the One Cleveland Center corner.

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

ZAREMBA SIGNS OPTION FOR DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND PROPERTY

 

Land will add approximately 1.4 acres to The Avenue District development

CLEVELAND Feb. 8, 2007 Zaremba Inc., developer of The Avenue District, a $250 million residential development in downtown Cleveland, has obtained an option on 1.4 acres of vacant property at the southwest corner of St. Clair Avenue and East 12th Street, adjacent to The Avenue District Site 1 (1211 St. Clair Ave.). While no construction timetable has been set at this time, preliminary plans include new condominium buildings in the style and context of Site 1.

 

The Avenue District has shown us that there is a growing demand in the city for new, for-sale housing, said Nathan Zaremba. This property is part of our expanding vision for a vibrant, walkable downtown Cleveland neighborhood."

 

The Avenue District will provide residents with upscale living options within walking distance to dining, shopping, arts, entertainment and recreation. The first phase includes the construction of 50 elegant lofts, eight penthouses, and 15 townhomes, with master plans calling for 426 upscale housing units in a wide range of size and price options. For further information, visit www.TheAvenueDistrict.com.

 

Since 1920, Zaremba has been a trusted name in home construction. Zaremba, Inc. has partnered with the City of Cleveland to create several award-winning housing developments, including The MillCreek community, Beacon Place at Church Square and WoodHaven. Zarembas most ambitious project to date, The Avenue District, is a $250 million residential development in downtown Cleveland. With principles deeply rooted in product quality, customer service and architectural integrity, Zaremba continues its commitment to building neighborhoods that enhance communities and enrich the lives of its residents. To learn more, visit www.ZarembaHomes.com.

 

# # #

I'm sure that this will make the Avenue District's retail an easier sell. 

I wonder why they were able to show us the footprint of the land that Zaremba owns, but only a dot on the land he just purchased?  The dot is useless for anyone capable of comprehending "SW corner of St. Clair and E. 12th".  A polygon would have provided us with some new information.

 

Also, I hope that Zaremba does something taller on this site.  It would be an excellent spot for a 25+ story tower.

i don't think zaremba has the experience for a tower.  10-12 story concrete construction is much different than 20 story concrete or steel frame.  i think this is why we're seeing a lot of 10-12 story developments downtown from most suburban developers (stonebridge, avenue, townhomes in various areas, district park if it happens, etc). 

 

we need to import some tower expertise and get a few 25 story residential buildings on the table.

^Trust me, if you have never built even a house before, you could still put a team together to build a 30 story highrise.  Zaremba isn't constructing the 11 story building anyhow.  Rather it is Panzica.  There are many sub-contractors and contrators along with CM's that know how to build a 30 story highrise in Cleveland.  If you have the money, and the demand is there, you can build it.  Zaremba's experience in what they have built thus far isn't a gauge on what they can do in-house.   

i think this is why we're seeing a lot of 10-12 story developments downtown from most suburban developers (stonebridge, avenue, townhomes in various areas, district park if it happens, etc). 

 

The reason for the lack of high-rises, according to the developers themselves, is that they don't believe the for-sale housing market downtown is "there" yet.

i think this is why we're seeing a lot of 10-12 story developments downtown from most suburban developers (stonebridge, avenue, townhomes in various areas, district park if it happens, etc). 

 

The reason for the lack of high-rises, according to the developers themselves, is that they don't believe the for-sale housing market downtown is "there" yet.

 

I'm there!!  HELLO!!  Developers....It's me Margaret calling for a 25 story highrise!

your real name is margaret?

 

ewww.

Folks, you also have to remember the soil conditions of downtown Cleveland, especially if you want to build over the 400-ish foot mark. In places like Chicago and NYC, the bedrock is around 25-50 feet below street level - in Cleveland, it's generally 200-250 feet under a lot of glacial sediment. That's a lot of extra expense just for the excavation portion of a project. With the 10-12 story developments, they don't need to be anchored to the bedrock.

Lighthouse Landing on West 10th Street = over 20 stories !

That's true, MayDay. A concrete pad will suffice for a building less than 20 stories tall. But I recall some of the East 9th Street buildings that are 20-30 stories sitting on concrete pads, too. I remember reading that in Cleveland's Changing Skyline book.

Federal Courthouse Tower sits on a concrete matt foundation (concrete pad).  515 does also and that is designed for 25+ stories.  We can "create" bedrock or sandstone closer to the surface through these systems.

I'm sold...let's do it!

"Federal Courthouse Tower sits on a concrete matt foundation (concrete pad).  515 does also and that is designed for 25+ stories.  We can "create" bedrock or sandstone closer to the surface through these systems. "

 

Right - but the height limit for concrete pad construction is a little over 400ish feet. Get above that, and you have dig - reeeal deep.

I can live with 400-ish feet.  I don't think there's really much need to build anything in Cleveland over that height at this point in time.

I can live with 400-ish feet.  I don't think there's really much need to build anything in Cleveland over that height at this point in time.

 

But without taller buildings, we'll be no better than Columbus!

I can live with 400-ish feet.  I don't think there's really much need to build anything in Cleveland over that height at this point in time.

 

I'd rather have 4 10-story residential buildings than one 40-story tower.

So would I. I love the area in D.C. northwest of the Mall, like along Connecticut Street. That height of building provides plenty of density and street life -- as long as the uses are mixed.

So would I. I love the area in D.C. northwest of the Mall, like along Connecticut Street. That height of building provides plenty of density and street life -- as long as the uses are mixed.

 

then again, pretty much all of DC applies.

also, the 10-story building should cover the majority of the site.  If you have 10% of the land supporting a 10-story building and the remaining 90% dedicated to a parking garage...well, that just wouldn't work for me.

C'mon now, we could build nothing for 50 years and the skyline would still be more interesting than Columbus's'sss.

I wasn't thinking too big, just something to tie The Avenue District into the high rise feel of Erieview.

^ and I think that little space on the corner would make a GREAT surface parking lot!  :drunk:

All it needs is some world class fencing.  And I know just the people to provide it!

the latest release talks about "colorful signage", so i guess they got the overall impression that world class was a little over the top.

C'mon now, we could build nothing for 50 years and the skyline would still be more interesting than Columbus's'sss.

 

We could tear down the terminal tower and still have a more interesting skyline than Columbus.

^OK, quit picking on the municipal little brother

your real name is margaret?

 

ewww.

 

I prefer Peggy

So would I. I love the area in D.C. northwest of the Mall, like along Connecticut Street. That height of building provides plenty of density and street life -- as long as the uses are mixed.

 

 

I like that also, however It's downtown and the best opportunity to improve on the skyline

^what is the big deal with "improving the skyline".  How does that make us a great city?  Houston and Dallas have impressive skylines but in my opinion they are not impressive cities.  Let's improve what is at the sidewalk level all over town. 

^what is the big deal with "improving the skyline".  How does that make us a great city?  Houston and Dallas have impressive skylines but in my opinion they are not impressive cities.  Let's improve what is at the sidewalk level all over town. 

 

 

I agree DC for historical reason or Boston don't have great skylines but they have walkable continuous neighborhoods.

 

 

Does improving the skyline and creating vibrant walkable neighborhoods have to be mutally exclusive?

Does improving the skyline and creating vibrant walkable neighborhoods have to be mutally exclusive?

 

No, but we're not going to see that type of growth in this city for a long time.

^what do you mean?  The market isn't deep enough?

^what is the big deal with "improving the skyline".  How does that make us a great city?  Houston and Dallas have impressive skylines but in my opinion they are not impressive cities.  Let's improve what is at the sidewalk level all over town. 

 

 

I agree DC for historical reason or Boston don't have great skylines but they have walkable continuous neighborhoods.

 

 

 

That doesn't mean we can't plan a condo tower or commercial tower in the city that compliments the other building downtown.

 

Hell, I would love to see some midrise(10-20 story) buildings along 55 street between st.clair and woodland. Preferably St. Clair to Chester and then again Prospect to Woodland.

^whoah!  getting a little ahead of ourselves, are we?

 

Besides, E. 55th is a little out of range to qualify as the Avenue District. 

Does improving the skyline and creating vibrant walkable neighborhoods have to be mutally exclusive?

 

No but with the amount of vacant lots/developable space, you'll need to fill that in before a critical mass of vertical building takes place.

If you fill that it, where do the vertical buildings go?

^I thought about that and the only places left maybe in eastern sections of downtown leading into midtown, which would spread the skyline eastward and thus "improve" the skyline. We'd have one of those Atlanta skylines with buildings spread over miles, though no density.

if it all moves forward the vertical buildings go were the previous fill was.

 

they go there because the land became so valuable through the fill that its the only way to go.

 

whoo boy, getting too ahead of ourselves here.

 

i agree go for the dc/bos approach first and foremost. the goal is to make downtown into more of a solid, interesting, walkable, livable neighborhood. the taller towers are an aside, they'll come. i wish stark would get started already, getting some of that built is key.