not sure if this is related to this development or not, but crains had an article titled:

 

"Zaremba recasting park as office condo complex"

^Not related.  The article is talking about West Point Corporate Center in Westlake, on the north side of Detroit Road just west of Clague Road. 

That walking map is pretty nice. I wish they'd add more of the not so high end amenities of the area. I believe there's a CVS on East 9th and how about some storefront sandwich or pizza places? I know these aren't "glamorous" places, but they are places that real people will visit when they aren't going to high end dining or need a prescription.

 

Just an idea in case anyone at Zaremba happens to see this. :-D

That walking map is pretty nice. I wish they'd add more of the not so high end amenities of the area. I believe there's a CVS on East 9th and how about some storefront sandwich or pizza places? I know these aren't "glamorous" places, but they are places that real people will visit when they aren't going to high end dining or need a prescription.

 

Just an idea in case anyone at Zaremba happens to see this. :-D

 

If you go to their website, you can add your ideas/comments/concerns.

I think that if they have a good mix of high end/everyday; regional/cleveland vs. non chain establishments; the area wont look/feel like a tourist trap but an actual neighborhood.

 

This is the "lynch pin" for a larger area.

I just sent off an email.

 

I'm actually not too worried about the area feeling like a tourist trap per se. The effects of this development will radiate outward into this larger area, which is the exciting side effect of any new, sizeable development in a dense urban environment, and I believe the edges of the development will taper into the existing neighborhood as opposed to coming to a hard stop at one street corner or another. By that, I mean I don't think there will be a pawn shop across from a Cartier store (which would be funny). I just want them to tout every asset the neighborhood already has, via this map and other means, to illustrate what is there to serve potential buyers.

That map is pretty interesting.  It would be interesting if they added pictures or kept adding features to it.  I'm guesssing this is more for out of towners to learn about what's in downtown.

I'm guesssing this is more for out of towners to learn about what's in downtown.

 

I wouldn't say that...there are tons of people IN Cleveland that don't travel out of their own neighborhood as well as people the burbs that have no clue how cool downtown really is.

 

I think its a good "educational" tool that will only get better as more people are drawn to the project

I had a person today ask me where the City Club is, and he lives and works in dt...

that said, i like the idea of the map evolving and being constantly updated with new attractions as they come on line. 

hats off to zaremba for taking the internet marketing approach as serious as a heart attack.

 

they have been continually updating the avenue website, yet it's still a work in progress.

 

i am sure they will add more and more pics, info and features as we go along on this project.

 

to their credit they are always asking, so let's all keep e-mailing'em and letting them know what we want to see on the website to make it better and what we want from the project as a whole.

 

 

Yeah, there's a lot left out there.  I'm curious about how they determined what made the map and what didn't.  Perhaps there is a marketing arrangement? 

I noticed on there website that they are going to auction off a street name to someone.  I've never heard of that, but it's awesome.  Doesn't the city have something to do with street naming though?

Yeah, there's a lot left out there.  I'm curious about how they determined what made the map and what didn't.  Perhaps there is a marketing arrangement? 

 

They are on teh right track to market this project, their community affairs team has been working with all the major cleveland company's downtown - hosting events at various "neighbor"-hood businesses and partnering with charities and philanthropic organizations.

 

This project is "selling" itself LOUDLY to the entire metro area...not just downtown.....

 

I tip my hat to marketing and communications folks    :clap:

I believe that Thundertech is handling the marketing. They have a bunch of 20-somethings running things. 

Hey everyone.  I would like to thank everyone for their comments...good, bad, or indifferent.  We do read this site, and like the e-mails that are sent through our website, we do take every message/e-mail seriously.  We can never guarantee that we can accommodate everything, but it's always considered.  Our team continues to work very hard to direct the message we send out that not only promotes The Avenue District, but also Downtown.  We love Cleveland, and everything that's happening in Cleveland.  As far as the website, our goal has been to make www.theavenuedistrict.com (shameless plug) the best and most interactive website in the market.  Every Wednesday, we update information on our website through our newsletter, The Avenews, and it goes live for non-newsletter subscribers on Friday.  It's free to subscribe (ok, another shameless plug).  We have some exciting stuff planned for the coming weeks.  Lastly, although I'm not prepared to release numbers at this time, I promise you that sales are going very well.  Thank you for your support in Cleveland and The Avenue District.

 

Sincerely,

Don Picciano, Jr.

Director of Sales and Marketing

Zaremba.

Hey everyone.  I would like to thank everyone for their comments...good, bad, or indifferent.  We do read this site, and like the e-mails that are sent through our website, we do take every message/e-mail seriously.  We can never guarantee that we can accommodate everything, but it's always considered.  Our team continues to work very hard to direct the message we send out that not only promotes The Avenue District, but also Downtown.  We love Cleveland, and everything that's happening in Cleveland.  As far as the website, our goal has been to make www.theavenuedistrict.com (shameless plug) the best and most interactive website in the market.  Every Wednesday, we update information on our website through our newsletter, The Avenews, and it goes live for non-newsletter subscribers on Friday.  It's free to subscribe (ok, another shameless plug).  We have some exciting stuff planned for the coming weeks.  Lastly, although I'm not prepared to release numbers at this time, I promise you that sales are going very well.  Thank you for your support in Cleveland and The Avenue District.

 

Sincerely,

Don Picciano, Jr.

Director of Sales and Marketing

Zaremba.

 

LOVE IT!!!  LOVE IT!!  LOVE IT!!

 

You guys/gals are really taking this project seriously.  I would like to think most of us are registerd members of your website. 

 

But can you tell us some retailers or the type of retail establishment you have in the pipeline?

Thanks for posting "Avenue District" Don. It's gratifying to get a direct response from such an important project. BTW feel free to leak any big announcements here first to your attentive audience. We can keep a secret. We promise. :wink:

Seriously, best wishes as the project pushes forward. And please keep posting any news and updates on your website, newsletter and if you can, here as well.

Cheers!

^ Especially since us news media folks are regulars here!

 

Don, as Sun Newspaper's downtown reporter, I'd be happy to help The Avenue District in any way I can.

 

I realize the news media gets a bad rap in this town (and I do as much rapping as anyone!). But some of us actually do believe in this city. Sometimes a responsible, forward-thinking, activist media outlet can have a dramatic, positive impact on its community.

 

Remember it was the Cleveland Press' activism that led to the redevelopment of East 9th Street from a skid row to the city's premier office tower corridor? Not only did they frequently tout the street in articles and in Press-sponsored events starting in the 1950s, but they relocated their offices and printing plant to the corner of East 9th and Lakeside. It's too bad it was the Press that folded in 1982!

 

I remain willing to help get the word out for The Avenue District in my capacity for Sun. Give me a holler anytime you want by sending a personal message to me via this site.

 

Regards,

 

Ken Prendergast

Sun Newspapers

MyTwoSense, I don't think there's going to be much retail at the Avenue District right? I would guess that they're going to try to help repopulate the Galleria.  That's going to be an interesting process to watch if I'm assuming correctly.

Zaremba's Woodhaven project in MidTown has evolved very quickly and successfully. I don't doubt Avenue District's success one bit because to me, Zaremba is one of the leading developers in Cleveland. Woodhaven is spectacular and he made a blighted area become a trendy and desirable place to live - extending the safety and comfortability found at the Cleveland Clinic all the way down to the low E. 80's.

I hope the retail in this project is more everyday necessities instead of high end clothing. With crocker park, legacy village etc. I dont see how this market could handel more expensive retail.

 

Since some clothing should be included on a limited scale,  I really hope that they dont follow the tower city model and sign leases with tons of chains which can be found in suburban malls. Although the downtown pop. is growing, any major retail development will need some suburban support. The avenue district must provide retail options that cannot be found in westlake or beachwood.

 

I hope the retail in this project is more everyday necessities instead of high end clothing. With crocker park, legacy village etc. I dont see how this market could handle more expensive retail.

 

 

I think a lot of people who don't shop at these places on a regular basis get the feeling that Greater Cleveland is flooded with high-end retail when in fact it's not. Legacy Village lacks solid apparel tenants and Crocker Park's "high-end" clothing is notoriously moderate (H&M).

 

I'd rather see the Galleria reinvented than have the Avenue District try to include too much in the way of clothing and retail. And since low and moderatley priced shopping centers can be found in pretty much every suburb, I think the smartest way to market it would be more upscale shopping in the vein of Beachwood Place. And after testing the waters of high-end retail for a year or so, gradually make it even more upscale. If properly remarketed, it could easily be repopulated with the high-end retail that Greater Cleveland (and Ohio/much of the Midwest in general) has been lacking since the original Tower City tenants (Barney's, Gucci, Fendi) closed. If the Galleria's owners modeled it after places like the King of Prussia mall or Ala Moana in Honolulu, I'm convinced they'd find success.

I hope the retail in this project is more everyday necessities instead of high end clothing. With crocker park, legacy village etc. I dont see how this market could handle more expensive retail.

 

 

I think a lot of people who don't shop at these places on a regular basis get the feeling that Greater Cleveland is flooded with high-end retail when in fact it's not. Legacy Village lacks solid apparel tenants and Crocker Park's "high-end" clothing is notoriously moderate (H&M).

 

I'd rather see the Galleria reinvented than have the Avenue District try to include too much in the way of clothing and retail. And since low and moderatley priced shopping centers can be found in pretty much every suburb, I think the smartest way to market it would be more upscale shopping in the vein of Beachwood Place. And after testing the waters of high-end retail for a year or so, gradually make it even more upscale. If properly remarketed, it could easily be repopulated with the high-end retail that Greater Cleveland (and Ohio/much of the Midwest in general) has been lacking since the original Tower City tenants (Barney's, Gucci, Fendi) closed. If the Galleria's owners modeled it after places like the King of Prussia mall or Ala Moana in Honolulu, I'm convinced they'd find success.

 

I agree with this. I think we get preoccupied with how bad we're doing in terms of creating jobs, etc, and we forget about all the rich people who live here, rich people who spend a lot of their retail time cloistered in the communities close to wherever they live. I think they would enjoy having a very high end place to shop, hang out, be seen. As LovesIT says, we don't really have a whole lot of "high-end" retail in Northeast Ohio. The Gap, Banana Republic, H&M and even Guess are mid-tier retailers. You pump those downtown, and you'll get shoppers, but it won't have the nessecary cache to keep the buzz, especially because they are nearly everywhere.

 

I have to assume there is a market for high-end retailers here, especially if they are unique retailers that cannot and will not be available anywhere else in the area. In the Detroit suburbs, they have the Somerset Collection, www.somersetcollection.com, which is operated by the people who do Beachwood, I believe. At that mall, they have Armani Exchange, Burberry, Gucci. It's a giant place -- way bigger than the Galleria, I believe. It prospers because it caters  to wealthy people of all backgrounds.

 

Oh, I forgot one thing: The only way high-end retail will work is that the setting is kept pristine and the environment calm and non-threatening. I live in Lakewood, and I think it's awesome that teenagers of every type can ride their bikes all over town and hang out at coffee shops and have fun. It is important all different types of people have a place to call their own and enjoy themselves. BUT! A high-end establishment can't be one of those places because that will scare people away. I'm just stating what I believe to be a fact. Everytime people talk about a shopping area they stop patronizinig, they bring these things up. In a perfect world, punks could sit next to the CEO of National City in the food court, but I just don't see it happening.

^ I agree. The owners of the Galleria (Is it Jacobs?) Should try and the the armani's, Tiffany', Louis Vuton's and such, but the mall needs good security and order or else people won't feel safe and will stay in Beachwood to shop. I wonder why those stores have stayed away since the early days of Tower City.

^ I agree. The owners of the Galleria (Is it Jacobs?) Should try and the the armani's, Tiffany', Louis Vuton's and such, but the mall needs good security and order or else people won't feel safe and will stay in Beachwood to shop. I wonder why those stores have stayed away since the early days of Tower City.

 

I agree with you guys about having to keep a high-end retail center more obviously secure and calm than places like Tower City have become. It would be a big task to undertake, and a bit of a gamble, but I think by eliminating the "safe" stores that would be obviously profitable (Aeropostale, Old Navy, American Eagle) and limiting their tenants to mid- to upper-level shopping only, they'd be able to create a more enticing environmnet to wealthier shoppers. While it may be a risk to not include some of these cash cows, and be kind of rude to the average Joe, taking a bit of an elitist attitude may be just what it needs. Ala Moana's lowest-end stores are Abercrombie and Gap and it successfully stays afloat with places like Dior, Escada, and Gucci.

 

And I'm glad to see that people realise there is an untapped market of wealthy shoppers looking for an outlet for all that cash burning a hole in their Vuitton wallets. A place like Cleveland should have more than just a Pucci or Missoni <i>counter</i> at Saks, there should be boutiques just like other major cities.

^ I agree. The owners of the Galleria (Is it Jacobs?) Should try and the the armani's, Tiffany', Louis Vuton's and such, but the mall needs good security and order or else people won't feel safe and will stay in Beachwood to shop. I wonder why those stores have stayed away since the early days of Tower City.

 

I agree with you guys about having to keep a high-end retail center more obviously secure and calm than places like Tower City have become. It would be a big task to undertake, and a bit of a gamble, but I think by eliminating the "safe" stores that would be obviously profitable (Aeropostale, Old Navy, American Eagle) and limiting their tenants to mid- to upper-level shopping only, they'd be able to create a more enticing environmnet to wealthier shoppers. While it may be a risk to not include some of these cash cows, and be kind of rude to the average Joe, taking a bit of an elitist attitude may be just what it needs. Ala Moana's lowest-end stores are Abercrombie and Gap and it successfully stays afloat with places like Dior, Escada, and Gucci.

 

And I'm glad to see that people realise there is an untapped market of wealthy shoppers looking for an outlet for all that cash burning a hole in their Vuitton wallets. A place like Cleveland should have more than just a Pucci or Missoni <i>counter</i> at Saks, there should be boutiques just like other major cities.

 

You know, I don't know if sticking a Pucci boutique there (I'm not even familiar with them:) is any more risky than putting an Aeropostale there. The one thing I fear with all of these development ideas is they'll go with the same old junk. The only way to sustain demand after the novelty has worn off is to offer stuff you can't get anywhere else.

 

Anyway, just to be clear, when I say you would need to secure the shopping area, I don't mean imposing a police state where non-wealthy people are not allowed. I think if you offer an experience with certain products, you'll attract people who like it and drive away people who aren't interested. IE., a high-school version of me wouldn't be caught dead in a shopping center full of expensive clothing stores and stuff like that. It would be a big bore.

^I don't want a police state either, but just have a security force that Welcomes everyone but warns (in extreme cases expels)  people when they are getting too roudy  and out of hand like Tower City can be at times.

the problem with going upscale in the galleria would be the food court.  i can remember shopping years ago in the galleria when there were actually stores open, but i can't remember what the food court consisted of. 

IE., a high-school version of me wouldn't be caught dead in a shopping center full of expensive clothing stores and stuff like that. It would be a big bore.

 

Obviously we would've clashed in high school ^_^

 

the problem with going upscale in the galleria would be the food court.  i can remember shopping years ago in the galleria when there were actually stores open, but i can't remember what the food court consisted of. 

 

I think they should stay away from obvious franchises (McDonald's, Taco Bell, Burger King), because most of them are available at Tower City, and for the most part I don't think someone would want to chow down on a Big Mac after buying a $2,000 handbag. I'd say go the Crocker Park route with some lesser-known fast food and semi-fast food chains (Liquid Planet, Boardwalk Fries, Tokyo Bay, China One, Haagen Daz). It's all about exclusivity and if you include that, even in your fast-food options, you'll maintain the flow of upscale customers.

 

Of course real restaurants would have to be added as well.

The Galleria is a different situation than TC.  TC cannot be made exclusively for the wealthy mainly because it is the city's main public transit hub in addition to being a mall.  Because of that, it will always attract a wide cross section of Cleveland, including lots of rowdy teens and poorer people without cars.  A stronger security force would help, but there is only so much that can be done.

 

The Galleria could be a cloister of wealthy consumption, however.  There are only two reasons to go there- shopping, and the food court.  The food court attracts mostly wealthy office workers, who are compatable with the potential upscale shoppers.

Let's remember that Zaremba's main objective is to fill the space with service-oriented retail for the residents and surrounding work community.  As more building begin to pop up and more retail space is available, I think this discussion becomes more prevalent.  That's how you you create a neighborhood.  Focus the retail on the staples first.  grocery store (Reserve Square expanding and remodeling to 30,000 sq. ft), dry cleaner, drug store, coffee shop. etc.  Those will be the first things in The Avenue District.  I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the high end stuff right away.  I think you'll see some of that, but later.  You're not going to get those type of retailers until you build a market or population in the near vicinity.  That being said, I can not see a fast food place in The Avenue District.  I think they're smarter than that.

^Totally agree. I was thinking of taking just the Galleria upmarket and letting the Avenue District developers put in staple retail in the actual AD development.

Zaremba's Woodhaven project in MidTown has evolved very quickly and successfully. I don't doubt Avenue District's success one bit because to me, Zaremba is one of the leading developers in Cleveland. Woodhaven is spectacular and he made a blighted area become a trendy and desirable place to live - extending the safety and comfortability found at the Cleveland Clinic all the way down to the low E. 80's.

 

Woodhaven is in the Fairfax community. I would not consider that part of MidTown.

 

I hope the retail in this project is more everyday necessities instead of high end clothing. With crocker park, legacy village etc. I dont see how this market could handel more expensive retail.

 

Since some clothing should be included on a limited scale,  I really hope that they dont follow the tower city model and sign leases with tons of chains which can be found in suburban malls. Although the downtown pop. is growing, any major retail development will need some suburban support. The avenue district must provide retail options that cannot be found in westlake or beachwood.

 

I agree to a point.  but why shouldn't we have national retailers.  Why should people who live in the heart of the city have to travel OUT of their neighborhood to shop in the burbs?  Besides Beachwood is Ohio's best attempt at "high end" shopping and at best Beachwood is "B-" mall.

 

the problem with going upscale in the galleria would be the food court.   i can remember shopping years ago in the galleria when there were actually stores open, but i can't remember what the food court consisted of. 

 

I don't think the food court at the Galleria has changed at all.  I think that its the one constant at the Galleria.

 

IE., a high-school version of me wouldn't be caught dead in a shopping center full of expensive clothing stores and stuff like that. It would be a big bore.

 

Obviously we would've clashed in high school ^_^

 

the problem with going upscale in the galleria would be the food court.   i can remember shopping years ago in the galleria when there were actually stores open, but i can't remember what the food court consisted of. 

 

I think they should stay away from obvious franchises (McDonald's, Taco Bell, Burger King), because most of them are available at Tower City, and for the most part I don't think someone would want to chow down on a Big Mac after buying a $2,000 handbag. I'd say go the Crocker Park route with some lesser-known fast food and semi-fast food chains (Liquid Planet, Boardwalk Fries, Tokyo Bay, China One, Haagen Daz). It's all about exclusivity and if you include that, even in your fast-food options, you'll maintain the flow of upscale customers.

 

Of course real restaurants would have to be added as well.

 

Why not?  I've been in malls like Pentagon City, Lenox Sq., The Beverly Center, The Houston Galleria...and they have a broad range of services and retailers.  The idea is to have something for everyone and target the largest audience.

 

 

 

 

MyTwoSense, I have heard some talk about making everything between Downtown and Universisty Circle known as Midtown, especially now that University Circle is trying to coin the "uptown" phrase...

 

It would make neighborhoods a lot easier to pin point this way.

^UC is trying to coin uptown?  I think I like the circle better, but hey.

MyTwoSense, I have heard some talk about making everything between Downtown and Universisty Circle known as Midtown, especially now that University Circle is trying to coin the "uptown" phrase...

 

It would make neighborhoods a lot easier to pin point this way.

 

I haven't heard of this and I don't like it as the neighborhoods lose their unique identities.  IIRC the MidTown Corridor doesn't elimate neighborhoods it creates a district bound by Carneige and Chester ABOVE East 55 that would be known as "upper" and the area below East 55 and the innerbetlt would be "lower".  You state that it makes neighborhoods easier to "pinpoint".  What makes them difficult figure out at this moment?

A common Clevelander probably doesn't know where Fairfax and other neighborhoods are in this area.  I do like the "upper and lower" idea though.  This is like saying, I'm working/living downtown.  Well, someone might be living in the Avenue District neighborhood, but at the end of the day, it's still downtown.  Same goes for this midtown idea.

^UC is trying to coin uptown?  I think I like the circle better, but hey.

 

They won't lose the Circle part. Actually, I am a bit disappointed in the lack of creativity. 

A common Clevelander probably doesn't know where Fairfax and other neighborhoods are in this area.  I do like the "upper and lower" idea though.  This is like saying, I'm working/living downtown.  Well, someone might be living in the Avenue District neighborhood, but at the end of the day, it's still downtown.  Same goes for this midtown idea.

 

so should we get rid of "tremont" and "ohio city" and just say "the near west side"?

hmm it doesnt sound like it would get rid of any neighborhood names, they would just be on the "level" of gateway, warehouse district, lower euclid, etc... neighborhoods within the downtown, midtown, and uptown areas... makes sense to me

hmm it doesnt sound like it would get rid of any neighborhood names, they would just be on the "level" of gateway, warehouse district, lower euclid, etc... neighborhoods within the downtown, midtown, and uptown areas... makes sense to me

 

to you...but its just like the portion of Harlem (around columbia university) that was changed to "morningside heights" to make others "comfortable".

I DO wish some of the neighborhoods would take pride and "sell" the area...signage, over the street gateways, etc...sort of like Chicago does with Humboldt Park with the Puerto Rican gateway and "Boystown" with the rainbow signage on the streets....the little green "historical" signs we have here just don't cut it IMO.

To me the Euclid Corridor seems seperate from Hough and Fairfax.  I don't mind calling it Upper Midtown or something similar.

JDD941, I think I remeber part of the streetscape plans for the Aven District to include overhead street signage.  i think that's a great idea and more districts and neighborhoods should do this.

Not to sound like a smart donkey, but the CHEAPEST townhouse here is 242K.  How many of you/people can afford that?  Kind of takes the middle class out of the picture real quick.  Is there really the average income here to justify this?  At a generous 6.75 interest (which is about to jump again) that takes the monthly payment to 1,573 a month.  This does not take into consideration condo/townhouse fees, which I am sure there are.  That is A LOT of money. 

 

I would love to see more 150-180K townhouses downtown.  Aim more towards your starter individuals/couples.  I think you have more a crowd there, and a better chance of building a community.  Maybe I am missing the point of the Avenue.  It Just seems like every development going in starts over 200K.  Cannot build a community if only 10% of the people can afford it.

 

Anyone know the cheapest place to buy downtown is?  I know you can rent cheaper, but I am one of those people who believe renting is throwing your money away.   

 

242K is 5 times the price I bought my house for on the West Side, and I have the same SQ FT. 

As much as most hate to hear what you just said...I have to agree.  Being a single city worker, that is WAY outta my price range.  If someone wants to move into downtown and has kids..the price just went higher :shoot:....then you have to start adding private schools into the factor.  As much as people would want to say, "send them to public schools"...no parent I know would really want to do that..not in Cleveland.  I LOVE Cleveland, before I lived here, now that I do, and if I ever move, it is still the city that is dear to me.  I can't look with a blind eye though. 

  Getting back to the topic, I too would love to see something a little more reasonable in the downtown area.....the 180K range would fit me (and MANY others) better( and I am not talking about a 500sq ft).  I think the downtown population would grow much faster with those kind of prices.  People must remember, not ALL of us are making a sh_t ton of money. 

Not to sound like a smart donkey, but the CHEAPEST townhouse here is 242K.  How many of you/people can afford that?  Kind of takes the middle class out of the picture real quick.  Is there really the average income here to justify this?   At a generous 6.75 interest (which is about to jump again) that takes the monthly payment to 1,573 a month.  This does not take into consideration condo/townhouse fees, which I am sure there are.  That is A LOT of money. 

 

I agree too, but I think there are units in the 180s available at Stonebridge, which is a great option in my opinion.

^^^ there is some discussion from a few months ago on this very topic, a few pages back (as well as alternatives):

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2525.msg77052#msg77052

Who moves downtown and has kids? At this point, who cares? We tend to fret way too much about trying to house 25 percent of the market (the average number of households having school-age children) in the city, when first priority should go to the 75 percent.

 

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see downtown become family-friendly. But until downtown (and its surrounding neighborhoods) is first stabilized with a sufficient number of residents and personal spending, I think it's asking a lot of families (and especially their children) to bear the burden of stablizing the core city.

Agree with KJP.  Plus, its the couples without children and the well-off bachelors ;) that can afford to buy at that price.  These type of developments are for people with money to burn.  Downtown generally attract the trendy, and nothing kills trendy like a family, j/k.  Plus, other than Manhattan and chicago (???), are there any downtowns that are really "friendly" places for families to live?  People with kids generally think they need yards, and crap :)

 

Now, attracting more families to the near west-side with new condos/townhomes and rehabs will/should occur and is probable.

THERE ARE IMPORTANT FACTORS THAT EVERYONE IS FORGETTING...

 

The Avenue District Townhomes and Lofts have a 15 year tax abatement and 1.5% below the market interest rates.  No Taxes, except for the land tax.  5.05% interest rates on a 30 yr fixed rate, so $242,000 at The Avenue District is not the same as $242,000 in Westlake.  The payment drops drastically!  It can be affordable. 

 

That being said, The Avenue District hasn't unveiled their lower priced lofts yet that they have planned, which will hit a different demographic.  Bottomline...I can even afford this place.  Not the Penthouse, but I can afford it.