June 8, 200619 yr "Not to sound like a smart donkey, but the CHEAPEST townhouse here is 242K. How many of you/people can afford that? Kind of takes the middle class out of the picture real quick. Is there really the average income here to justify this? At a generous 6.75 interest (which is about to jump again) that takes the monthly payment to 1,573 a month. This does not take into consideration condo/townhouse fees, which I am sure there are. That is A LOT of money." Keep in mind that in addition to a 15-year 100% tax abatement, there are a lot of incentives (e.g. below-market interest rates, first-time homebuyer loans) offered by banks as part of CRA (Community Reinvestment Act) programs. That helps take the sting out of the overall cost. You also have to consider that while a $1,500 monthly house payment seems like a lot (which it certainly is to me) for the Cleveland market - it's not that huge on a national scale, especially for property in the heart of a major urban center. I think there's a bit of a learning curve for lifelong northeast Ohioans - 1. we've had it cheap for a lonnng time, and 2. the space we occupy tends to get smaller as an area urbanizes. Sure, you can get a lovely beautiful 1,500 sq. ft. home in Westpark for the same price as an 800 sq. ft. condo at Stonebridge but like everything, there's a tradeoff. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
June 8, 200619 yr Its kind of hard to blame developers who price and target their product to sell to the most viable market niche. Of course I wish that downtown living was more accessible to all, but its just not realistic. As downtown becomes less of a risk, I think that you will see some other options come available.
June 8, 200619 yr i think there is room for everyone to play. the developers taking the risks (or asking for the public's money) obviously have a business model that factors certain rates of return for their development. Somebody has to pay for wolstein's $15m house out in the boonies, and since he is taking a personal risk, more power to the tax payers in cleveland and the first wave of residents on the east bank for helping him along. it's how a free market works. the point is, there are numerous parking lots, vacant land, underutilzed buildings, brownfields, etc. that are waiting to be developed. maybe we can't all afford or have any interest in developing $400 million of $1B master plan projects, but I think we need to attract additional developers or groups of people in NE Ohio that want to play in the smaller space, a $10m building here and there.
June 8, 200619 yr Another thing to think about is that it costs just about the same to build one of these buildings in Chicago as it does in Cleveland. Just the Cleveland market isn't mature yet, so the margins are a lot slimmer. These building are not cheap to build. Majority of the affordable stuff will come from Rehabs.
June 8, 200619 yr That first block will be at the northeast corner of Superior Avenue and East 13th Street. I'm glad this is the first intersection to be built. That gap on Superior between NOACA and the Plain Dealer building/Tower Press always bugs the heck out of me. It's the biggest missing tooth in what's otherwise a pretty continuous stretch of urbanity on Superior from Public Square to the Innerbelt, and into Chinatown. All in all, great news! Thanks for all your hard work this week, KJP. :)
June 8, 200619 yr Thanks. I also wrote articles on the MetroHealth Senior Wellness Center, the details of the CPP electrical workers contract, a short on RTA's new zoo bus route, and a few others things that are escaping my memory. Later this summer (July? August?), I'd like to do a round-up of all that's happening downtown development-wise. Could be a nice advertising piece. At some point however, I'd like to see Sun start a new paper just for downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods. I'd call it the Center City Sun. For now, Sun's brass will stick with their Weekend insert in the center of the paper, which has some downtown entertainment stuff in there. With downtown's population (and incomes) rising fast and are due to rise faster in the coming years, I think the Center City Sun will be inevitable. It just makes too much sense not to do it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 8, 200619 yr That's a great idea, KJP. There really is no centralized place to get news and info about downtown as a neighborhood per se. Most of the news about downtown is geared towards people who don't live downtown- entertainment news and such.
June 8, 200619 yr If I had a family with children and all that, I'd be more inclined to live perhaps in a neighborhood like Ohio City or Tremont rather than a downtown condo, loft or whatever. I like the urban environment well enough, but I like the idea of having my own house in a traditional residential neighborhood. Historically, none of downtown Cleveland was designed to have a lot of full-time residents, right? So we'd be sort of changing history with all this new residential...That's a cool idea, to me. You have to rework the wheel, especially here where the wheel has a flat and the rim is bent. But, anyway, per families, it'd be neat though if downtown Cleveland got built up so much they needed to put schools down there.
June 9, 200619 yr How many years do you think it will be before Downtown Cleveland has the population to be its own ward? I think the wards are like 23k now, and downtown has about 8k, so if the city continues to lose population, and downtown continues to gain, the city center residents will start to have a lot more political clout. It will be an interesting shift to witness.
June 9, 200619 yr I guess it depends on how well the projects on this board do! If they all get built by the next census, look for downtown to be it's own ward shortly after. Or split up into several wards. Either way, we'll be alot more populous.
June 10, 200619 yr Great update KJP! I'll be on-site with bells and whistles for the first day of work...who's bringing the champaigne? I'm also tickled at the idea of the latter phases growing if the early phases are successful! As for the price points...there are plenty of more affordable market-rate units in and around Downtown...both for rent and to buy. Namely, Pointe at Gateway, Montana Townhomes and Mueller Lofts. These all feature units for sale under $200k. Rentals abound, but keep in mind that we're talking Downtown here and if you want to live Downtown in any active/thriving city center, you're going to have to pay more. Here in Cleveland, we have the luxury of a relatively affordable Downtown, as well as several exciting and even more affordable inner-city neighborhoods...for market rate buyers/renters, as well as low-income households.
June 15, 200619 yr Minor piece of information for The Avenue District. The building at E.12th and St. Clair has an address now. 1211 St. Clair Ave.
June 15, 200619 yr Oooh, one of those presigious St. Clair addresses! Future conversation: One attractive Clevelander: "So, where do you live?" Another attractive Clevelander: "On St. Clair, in the Avenue District." One: "Ooooh, swanky!" Another: "Yeah, it's super nice! I have my dog groomer, coffee shop, hair stylist, realtor, travel agent, book store, grocer, martini bar, gym, and oxygen revibe chamber all within one block of my loft!"
June 15, 200618 yr well, you're gonna have to, because I don't know what the hell an oxygen revibe chamber is and the blocks don't exist yet! an address, 1211 St. Clair Avenue, is a good start, though!
July 13, 200618 yr Only a few more until they hit pre-sales!!! Plan on Buying at The Avenue District? Eight Reasons to BUY NOW! Have you been dreaming about living at The Avenue District? Here are several compelling factors why now is the best time to secure your future residence at Cleveland’s newest and most desirable downtown address. Pre-construction pricing will be only available for a limited time. With only a few units left to sell until we reach our pre-sale requirement, the price for your fantastic loft or townhome will never be cheaper than it is right now! Construction costs are continually on the rise. Interest rates to finance your new home have steadily risen over the past year. 15-year tax abatement - every homeowner at The Avenue District will receive this special incentive. Future downtown developments may not have this luxury. For example, purchasing a $300,000 unit, is a savings of approximately $100,000! Below Market Interest Rates - you can currently secure 1.5% below the market interest rates. Why pay full price to borrow money? Location - be within walking distance to everything Downtown Cleveland has to offer, like fantastic dining, the Theater District, The Q, Jacobs Field, Cleveland Browns Stadium, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Great Lakes Science Center, House of Blues, and many other entertainment venues. Pick your view - by securing your new loft or townhome now; you will be able to have the best choice available to some of the most impressive views in downtown Cleveland. Signing Bonus!!! - For a limited time, if you buy a loft in The Avenue District, you will receive a special incentive. Ask our Sales Manager for details. So, what are you waiting for? Call The Avenue District Sales Manager, Frank Lalli at 216.589.8524 to set up a consultation or you e-mail him at [email protected].
July 13, 200618 yr I was thinking that they had hit that pre-sale mark already. Hmm.. I wonder how sales have done over the past two months.
July 14, 200618 yr sounds like they are very close to the presales number ... now is probably the best time to get a good deal on a unit
July 20, 200618 yr This, from the most recent Avenues: 1211 St. Clair Avenue closes in on Pre-Sales Dear Friends, We are nearing our pre-sale requirement for 1211 St. Clair Avenue at The Avenue District, the first building in Downtown Cleveland's newest and most elegant neighborhood. There are only a few more sales needed before shovels will be in the ground and cranes will be in the air. If you are considering buying at The Avenue District, now is the time. We are offering $10,000 in free custom options to the next few buyers of our loft building at 1211 St. Clair Avenue. This incentive will not be available once the pre-sale requirements has been met, and don't forget, there is still pre-construction pricing available for our Townhomes at The Avenue District. There is no better time than now to secure your place at The Avenue District. These Incentives Are Hard To Ignore: Pre-Construction Pricing 15-year Tax Abatement Discounted Interest Rates 2-year Rate-Locks $10,000 in Custom Options 1-Year Membership to the Cleveland Athletic Club The Excitement of Downtown Cleveland at your Doorstep Walk to Work or Enjoy a Reverse Commute
July 20, 200618 yr So, which is first? St. Clair & 12th or Superior & 13th? Or will they be built at the same time? (pretty please???)
July 20, 200618 yr An article from the PD said 13th and Superior was first, but I'd trust their direct mailing more. ;) Looks like 12th and St. Clair it is.
July 20, 200618 yr From the KJP Sun article on p. 17 of this thread: ...Ground will be broken for the first phase, or block, this autumn with the first units available for occupancy in late-spring 2007, said Don Picciano, director of sales and marketing for Zaremba. That first block will be at the northeast corner of Superior Avenue and East 13th Street. It will have 99 loft condos and 30 townhomes, including smaller studio lofts with more affordable prices. The average price of homes in the Avenue District will be about $300,000. Picciano said he isn't ready release official pre-sale figures, but he described sales as brisk, especially for the townhouses. While infrastructure work is being funded by the city, the money is actually coming from a percentage of unit sales being earmarked for the city work. The next block to be built is the project's "cornerstone," said Joseph Del Re, new projects coordinator for Zaremba. It will feature 188 housing units in five buildings, north of St. Clair Avenue, between East 12th and 13th streets. Lastly, another 130 units could be part of two buildings proposed in another block south of St. Clair, east of East 12th. If the units sell quickly, the latter phases of development could be grander.
July 20, 200618 yr I had heard that they were initially planning for E. 12th & Superior being the third phase development but that they had actually revised those plans so that it would now be the first phase. But I don't know where I heard that and those of you who know me personally probably know to suspect the sources that find their way into my life.
July 21, 200618 yr There will be TWO phase ones. The townhomes at E. 13th Street and Superior will start late summer/early fall, 2006 while the tower at E. 12 and St. Clair will also start late summer/early fall, 2006. Townhomes and lofts, two great tastes that go great together ;)
July 21, 200618 yr There will be TWO phase ones. The townhomes at E. 13th Street and Superior will start late summer/early fall, 2006 while the tower at E. 12 and St. Clair will also start late summer/early fall, 2006. Townhomes and lofts, two great tastes that go great together ;) how can they be considered two phases if they both start at the same time?
July 21, 200618 yr Tower Phase One Townhomes Phase One Honestly, as long as they're built does it reeeeeally matter? :-) clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
July 21, 200618 yr This is very exciting. Man this is going to do wonders to transform this currently dismal edge of downtown- way more than another bland office building and parking garage would have, IMHO. Can't wait to see ground broken and some progress photos from Team UO!
July 21, 200618 yr I marked August 15th on my calendar last month after KJP broke the story on the date the site work would begin! I'll be there with my camera!
July 25, 200618 yr LIVE DOWNTOWN Come and Discover The Avenue District Cleveland’s Newest Downtown Neighborhood Thursday, July 27th 6 - 9 p.m. The Galleria at Erieview The Avenue District Sales Office -- 1st Floor President, Nathan Zaremba as well as other representatives will be available to answer questions and to provide further information on The Avenue District, Cleveland’s newest downtown neighborhood.
July 26, 200618 yr I saw in the PD today that the Avenue District sales office is hiring. I'm not looking for a job personally, but I figured some people on this forum are interested in getting a job with a developer.
August 1, 200618 yr LIVE DOWNTOWN Come and Discover The Avenue District Cleveland’s Newest Downtown Neighborhood Thursday, July 27th 6 - 9 p.m. The Galleria at Erieview The Avenue District Sales Office -- 1st Floor President, Nathan Zaremba as well as other representatives will be available to answer questions and to provide further information on The Avenue District, Cleveland’s newest downtown neighborhood. Anyone go to this? Hear anything interesting?
August 1, 200618 yr Damn. I totally forgot about it, even though I wanted to go. Damn. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 1, 200618 yr As did I. Crap. :cry: I was in Erieview Tower on Friday and took this cool pic - if that makes you feel better.
August 1, 200618 yr exxxxcellent...I've never seen that view of the lot. Now, put those urban design skillz to work and make it look pretty!
August 3, 200618 yr I admire Zaremba's tenacity in reaching their pre-sale quota. Clearly, they want this project to break ground as much as we do. I am remaining optimistic that the incentive program offered below isn't a bad sign! Dear Friends, Do you know a friend, family member, or acquaintance that may be interested in The Avenue District? Zaremba is proud to offer you $500 for every person you refer to The Avenue District who in turn purchases a unit in Cleveland's newest Downtown neighborhood. In addition to your reward bonus, the person or persons you refer will receive $1000 in free custom options for their new Downtown dwelling. There is no limit to the amount of referral bonuses you may earn. To participate, simply download and complete the attached Zaremba Referral Form. The Avenue District brochures are available in our sales and information office inside The Galleria at Erieview Tower. It has never been easier to make $500. This is our way of thanking you for being a friend to The Avenue District and Zaremba. Sincerely, Don Picciano, Jr. Director of Sales and Marketing Zaremba.
August 3, 200618 yr Now we can all list ourselves as "marketing consultants" for the Avenue District! Clearly, they want to get there...but does this mean they're getting desperate?
August 3, 200618 yr I'm officially worried. I've always been a little worried about this project...it has no "hook"- no riverfront/lakefront, historic buildings or existing 'hood to build off of. Prove me wrong Zaremba!
August 3, 200618 yr i got that newsletter today too. i'm not worried, i did not think anything of it. that kind of bonus incentive tact is quite common. am i worried about any of the big three downtown projects? yes, very much so. until something actually gets built.
August 3, 200618 yr ...it has no "hook"- no riverfront/lakefront, historic buildings or existing 'hood to build off of. Ah..the chesterfield, Reserve Square and few smaller housing project are just a block away
August 3, 200618 yr Clearly, they want to get there...but does this mean they're getting desperate? I'm officially worried. It should be noted that this incentive program is not appear to be exclusive to the Avenue District. If you look at the incentive brochure here: http://www.theavenuedistrict.com/docs/Zaremba_broch.pdf You can see that it's for Zaremba homes in general. The form includes the line "To which Zaremba community are you referring this person?" Looks like it's just an incentive program, and it's existence should not be construed as a negative indicator for the Avenue District's prospects.
August 3, 200618 yr Thanks; less worried now. Some shiny new residential construction will make me very happy.
August 3, 200618 yr Dear Friends, Okay, I couldn't resist. In the past, I've mentioned that I follow this thread, but I wanted to nip any negative feelings in the bud. We are not in panic mode whatsoever. In fact, since we've been able to sign contracts, sales have been moving very swiftly. We are extremely close to hitting our pre-sale requirement, and any incentives that are being offered, like the referral bonus, is a Zaremba-wide incentive. I can promise each and every one of you that this neighborhood, The Avenue District, will happen. I appreciate everyone's support and interest, and keep watching...you just might see a crane in the air! Sincerely, Don Picciano, Jr. Director of Sales and Marketing Zaremba.
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