I'll try to be down there at 11:30...I've been down here so much lately and would love to see the plans! 

 

And from this newly returned Clevelander, MayDay's frustration is justified... I've seen so much progress in many many corners of this city, from the Homeownership Zone and significant neighboring low-income developments in Central, to market rate infill townhouse developments in Ohio City and Detroit Shoreway...things are happening here.  I guess it's just less noticeable if you're zipping in on a freeway and zipping back out without taking time to appreciate our city's neighborhoods. (this isn't a cut on anyone, just a little rant for those eternally pessimistic Clevelanders!)

 

I couldn't have said this better myself!

one sad thing said in this conference was that it would take 6 years to complete phase I, II and III, with ground being broken sometime in '06 for phase I and II.  Hopefully some of the units will come online in phases, but it still seems like a long time - until 2012 to have this project completed, when the development sites are already parking lots - as close to greenfield as you'll get downtown. 

 

i wonder if the financing isn't really there and it is sort of build as they are sold sort of situation - another reason for the kickoff marketing launch. 

Downtown development unveiled

 

 

Photo credit: Courtesy of Zaremba Inc. 

 

 

By BRANDON GLENN

 

3:06 pm, September 13, 2005

 

 

 

Cleveland Mayor Jane Campbell and Nathan Zaremba, president of property developer, Zaremba Inc., formally announced plans for a long-delayed $200 million residential project in downtown Cleveland.

 

The project would feature more than 400 for-sale residential units, retail space, structured parking, new streets, sidewalks and green space. It will be built on three city-owned parking lots that sit between East 12th and East 13th streets from St. Clair Avenue to Superior Avenue.

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

also looks like they updated their website:  http://www.theavenuedistrict.net/

Tell Zaremba in their feedback section that you'd like to see Rapid transit access or maybe a streetcar!

 

KJP

Here are a few shots from my visit to the site today:

 

 

The concrete/granite on the sidewalk are part of the Superior Avenue improvements that fall under the "Euclid Corridor" project heading.  They were being installed at the corners of the blocks surrounding the site...

 

 

 

 

I sent his note on the web site:

 

I am a frequent visitor to Toronto, including the winter. When there in the colder weather I make use of the PATH an underground area that connects most of the downtown, from the Eaton Centre to the train station. A new one is being develop along Bloor and Yong St. I am hoping that something along these lines will will be included  in the Avenue District. There are a lot of office buildings that could be connected from Erieview, One Cleveland Center, SBC, Eton and the Shamrock building. I know it might require the moving of a lot of utilities, electrical, gas, steam and phone lines, but it might just be worth it. Thank you for allowing me to express my oppinion. Jim S.

 

 

PS: Hopefully the idea will extend to Playhouse Square as well.

^Is this a pedestrian tunnel or a type of rapid transit?

In my note I suggested connecting "the district" and the surrounding buildings to the WFL South Harbor/Muni Lot station.

Looking at the copy on their website, it's immediately obvious that they are selling themsleves as a more peaceful, quiet alternative to what is (will become) the more bustling and I guess noisy areas in the Warehouse District and the flats.  On the front page of the site you get the the word "quiet" three times, "tranquility" once and the phrase "no need to drown in...socially upbeat bedlam."

 

I think it's a good thing.  I think it's good for these little pockets to have their own identities; give buyers and renters options.  You'll hear a lot, and it is true, that downtown living isn't for everybody.  But with projects like this we can make it more attractive to more people.

Toronto's PATH is a 6-mile network of pedestrian routes, mostly underground and lined with shops, fountains and topped with skylights. They link numerous office buildings, shopping complexes, hotels, Union Station and a number of subway and streetcar lines. Here's a website that has pictures of PATH...

 

http://www.xcp.bfn.org/bradbee.html

 

The official PATH website is....

 

http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/path/

 

I think Cleveland's Convention Center can provide the basis for a similar network here, though I know some don't agree on its application in our downtown. But I think it would be a boon for downtown, which I've heard some climatologists say has consistently stronger winds than Chicago. I hate walking in downtown Cleveland from late October to early April.

 

KJP

 

Toronto's winters can be as brutal as Clevelands. They may not get the wind of the lake but it seems that north wind comes roght form the Arctic, and it does. Having sheltered walkways will greatly help. I didn't think about extending to the convention center because that seems to be up in the air again. Bear hugz. Jim S.

Based on this and the number of other conversations on the topic throughout the forum, the underground network could be it's own thread!  It applies here, though, because we're talking about ways that the Avenue District can be made more attractive to more buyers. 

 

I haven't been in the Toronto version, but I have been in the Montreal version.  It's clean, safe (so I hear), and has lots of activity during peak hours.  I don't know what the effects are on the street-level, though.  As we've seen in the US with the above ground networks like this (i.e: Cincinnati), they can be less safe if not monitored properly and can suck the life off of the sidewalks.  What life?  Good question!  There are already 3,000 residents of the "Avenue District" and there's hardly anyone on the sidewalks right now.  But there's really no retail to speak of.  There are a couple spots here and there, but the overall theme of Downtown Cleveland rings true here: the retail is contained within buildings...Galleria, Tower City, the Arcades, and the sub-levels of many office buildings (i.e: Huntington Bank).  I know winters can be harsh in Cleveland, but summers can be so perfect!  Euclid Avenue is making its comeback...I'd like to continue this with more vibrancy along E. 12th Street!

 

on the other hand, I can understand links from major facilities like the Convention Center directly to transit nodes, such as a North Coast Harbor multimodal station, but I worry about doing this throughout Downtown.  Expense will likely prohibit this anyways...

 

 

I think a separate thread on the walkways subject is a good idea.

 

Besides, it will allow us to get back to the excellent subject of this thread -- The Avenue!

 

KJP

When you say something like shoddy construction about a specific project, let's have examples. It's also potentially libelous so keep that in mind.

 

Sorry KJP, just one more diversion...

MayDay, I didn't mean to offend in my comments about Stonebridge. Since getting back to Cleveland, I've had the impression that the project is generally regarded as shoddy -- but obviously not everyone feels that way. Since you asked, here's a couple of examples of what I'm referring to:

 

1) They used "thin-brick," a type of fake brick veneer that would be kinda tacky on its own, but on top of that it's already buckling in places and falling off completely in others. The buckling is most noticeable at night, when the building is lit from below.

 

2) The floors of the corridors having a 'bounce' when you walk on them -- probably because the bar joists (or whatever they used) are spaced too far apart. Either that, or the sub-flooring isn't screwed down tight enough.

 

For such a showcase location, I wish they had built to a 50- or 100-year standard. I'm thinking Stonebridge will hold up for about 30 years. Anyway, I don't want to take away from the excitement around The Avenue, and again -- apologies if I offended.

Just to clarify, I'm not offended but I do want to make sure that allegations of shoddy workmanship (in ANY project) are backed up by reliable sources - owners or construction/contractors who worked on the project itself. Obviously in some cases, such issues might be visibly apparent.

 

If owners are truly dissatsified - I'm not opposed to them voicing their concerns here.  I do know that Stonebridge utilized light-gauge steel which may explain some of the issues you've mentioned. I believe it's touted as the tallest building in the world which was constructed with such steel and perhaps the limitations are just now being realized? Just a guess on my part.

 

This forum is blessed with quite a few people in the industry and I'd hate to see them be reluctant to participate because of posts "alleging" shoddy workmanship. Can you tell us specifically where on the building that you're seeing the facade buckling?

I can't believe that any curtain wall is buckling...infact, almost impossible for that to happen. 

EAST 12th STREET!!!  AVENUE DISTRICT!!!  FOCUS PEOPLE!!!

I can't believe that any curtain wall is buckling...infact, almost impossible for that to happen. 

 

The wall itself isn't buckling -- the thin-brick veneer is, as I said.

MayDay, point taken; my original intent was to call for making E. 12th as high-quality as possible, and I certainly didn't mean for this to turn into a discussion about Stonebridge's merits. I'll write you personally about the facade issue.

well done... The price point that these will be demanding and the location should warrant more significant design review and only the best materials.  not that the existing residential structures on E. 12th are anything great to look at, but they're sturdy, right? 

 

I'm also excited that they'll be starting two phases at the same time next year.  I was afraid that they were gonna go one block at a time and finish sometime around 2012... it looks like the first two blocks can be ready to go by 2008!  It sounds like a ways off from now (which it is), but the construction phase is always pretty exciting and that's starting next year!  One step at a time...

Back on that Toronto underground tunnel idea...

I have a hard time with underground or sky walkways that take people off the street.  The street is where activity should be, regardless of cold weather or wind.

Where would you rather visit, Chicago's Michigan Ave. or the Toronto's PATH? 

For the Avenue District, there is SUCH an opportunity to create great connectivity with The Galleria, and the possibility for outdoor shopping, living and working. 

People on the street rule. 

agreed!

Well, I guess the arcades are a type of enclosed street.

Maybe we can look into building another???

Regardless of weather conditions, I think people will walk outside if it is worth their time.  I know my wife would walk through two feet of snow and 10 degree weather to get to H and M. 

did any of you guys get this email? i think anyone who tipped them about how to spell 'chic' may have got one and now we're on their list. heck let's take him up on the offer to give feedback!

 

"Since our announcement last Tuesday, we've been greeted with an overwhelming positive response and excitement from Clevelanders like you, eager to share their ideas and help shape The Avenue District.  THIS IS YOUR CHANCE.  Think big, think modern.  We’re recruiting you to help transform the face of Downtown Cleveland.  Let’s revolutionize downtown living.  Revamp our city’s culture.  Please take the time to visit www.theavenuedistrict.net frequently to give us your thoughts and opinions, as new information will be available often.  As we get closer to the beginning of The Avenue District's pre-sales in January, you can look forward the following:

 

-sneak peak at floor plans

 

-inside scoop on neighborhood amenities

 

-retail development plans for The Avenue District

 

-surveys and feedback areas

 

-video streams

 

-featured articles such as:

 

    -unveiling of the 5 product living types

 

    -financial benefits to living in Downtown Cleveland

 

I look forward to your feedback.

 

Sincerely,

 

Don Picciano, Jr.

 

Director of Sales and Marketing

 

Zaremba."

 

www.theavenuedistrict.net

 

 

Regardless of weather conditions, I think people will walk outside if it is worth their time.  I know my wife would walk through two feet of snow and 10 degree weather to get to H and M. 

 

Excellent point, GoTribe!  I think that's definitely true... NYC gets really cold in the winter too (as do Chicago, Boston, Philly, etc.), but people continue to shop and fill the streets.  You've just got to give them a good enough reason to be there!

 

And yes, I got that email too, but I posted a comment on their website about a week ago, so I wasn't surprised that I was on their mailing list.

The Rebirth of City Living

City Living Series Part 1

 

    Lifestyle – a buzz word in the home building industry among developers and potential buyers. It is a unique term that is transforming the way new neighborhoods are planned.  It is also a word at the forefront of Zaremba’s mind regarding their plans for The Avenue District.

 

    Incorporating ones lifestyle is an important factor when making a decision to purchase a new home. Everyone wants to live in a community where they find everything at their fingertips.  But, where can you truly find this place without having to drive?  The city is just that place.  A rebirth of city living is blossoming across the country with downtown residential developments like The Avenue District.

 

    Cleveland is now at the forefront of this movement.  There are close to 10,000 residents who already live in Downtown Cleveland including 3,000 in The Avenue District alone.  The Theatre and Warehouse Districts, The Gateway Neighborhood, and The Flats house the other 7,000 residents.

 

    There are many benefits to downtown living that have contributed to this rebirth.  The opportunity to live in a walkable neighborhood, the rise in gas prices, and the close proximity to sporting events, concerts, restaurants, nightclubs, and cultural venues are drawing residents to move back to the core of the city. 

 

    Offering trendy, sophisticated, and unique living in Downtown Cleveland promises many opportunities that nearby suburbs can not offer its residents and is another reason people are flocking to these urban dwellings.   One of the many residential development projects assisting in this rebirth of Downtown Cleveland living is The Avenue District.

 

    With major residential developments taking place all over the city, Clevelanders have many exciting opportunities to embark upon an urban lifestyle.  If you are interested in lifestyle living, now is your chance to join others and take advantage of all of the new developments in the heart of Downtown Cleveland.

 

 

 

 

 

 

an email i got from their website, seems to be some good spin on downtown cleveland, but 3000 people already live there???

Statler, Reserve Square and Chesterfield probably (all on E.12) have at least 1200 units and depending on how you define "The Avenue", there is Huron and a few other buildings on the edges.  If there are close to 2000 units at 1.5 average per unit, then 3000 is possible.

Don't forget all the homeless people sleeping outside the the welfare building on Superior and at the church across 17th Street from it....

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

KJP

There are a couple low-income buildings in "the district" as well, probably bumping that unit number up to around the 2000 mark...

don't forget hotels.  Those count as residences as well (holiday inn lakeside, Crown Pointe, couple others...)

don't forget hotels.  Those count as residences as well (holiday inn lakeside, Crown Pointe, couple others...)

 

The crowne point?  do you mean the crown plaza by the galleria?  I know the Wyndham and the Clarion are in the Playhouse Square district.

Floor plans for the "Loft" building at E. 12th and St. Clair released! Gotta love the "powder room"...

 

http://www.theavenuedistrict.com/floorplans_preview.asp

Floor plans for the "Loft" building at E. 12th and St. Clair released! Gotta love the "powder room"...

 

http://www.theavenuedistrict.com/floorplans_preview.asp

 

Cute.  I wonder what the retail locations will offer.

 

If only one could be above 25 stories with a lakeview!  I would move downtown in a heartbeat!

i got my floorplan email update today too but of course yous guys is on top of it!

actually, a couple of the condo on floors 7 and up will have awesome lakeviews, since the average floor height will be higher than the floor height of the "firestone garage", so most units facing North (past floor 6 i believe) will see the lake. 

 

 

Another tidbit of good news!

 

Diary

Saturday, October 22, 2005

REAL ESTATE

 

Zaremba closes on downtown land

 

Developer Nathan Zaremba said he closed on his purchase of three parking lots owned by the city of Cleveland, covering 6½ acres, that will be home to his $200 million Avenue District mixed-use development. Construction of the project, on East 12th and East 13th streets, near St. Clair and Superior avenues, is expected to start in June 2006. The project will include more than 400 condominiums and townhomes, coffee shops and galleries. A sales office will open in mid-December. Parking in the lots will continue until construction begins. He said the deal was financed with the help of KeyBank, National City Bank and Dollar Bank.

a developer p-p-p-purchased parking lots???? like to build on? rilly? sheesh. 

 

hats off to zaremba --- that's awesome uplifting news!

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

 

well, I was hoping for more progress...I thought they wrapped this up in September!

MGD, why so glum? The rental office is opening soon... that's progress...

I know... I'm not glum, I just want to see shovels breaking up that asphalt and cranes in the air!  You know what gets my blood pumping!

ok now they've got three floor plans up.  Can we just get them all up there instead of these freakin' teasers??

 

www.theavenuedistrict.com

ONE DAY!:

 

BTw, did anyone happen to see the "Believe in Cleveland" spots in the PD?  There was one on the bottom half of A17 December 6th, half page about this project, and how it was visionary and yet becoming reality.  Neat campaign.

"In the first phase of construction at the corner of E. 12th Street and St. Clair Avenue, the Penthouse suites will offer the opportunity to custom design a two-story loft.

 

    Offering an experience like no other, The Penthouse at The Avenue District takes sophisticated urban living to unparallel heights.  Situated on the top floor of Building One, these dynamic units will feature two full stories and square footage only limited by your needs and wants.  Large rooftop terraces, optional in-suite elevators, and private parking are only a few of the many luxuries at the Penthouse level.  Far above the busy city street below, you recline in the comforts of a truly custom lifestyle, uniquely crafted from only the finest in imagination, materials, and design.  Create a showcase of taste and luxury in the Penthouse level."

I like the fact that this guy is asking for input as to what potential owners would like to see in this development.

 

The website is greatly improved and also links/promotes other areas of downtown/near downtown.  The property manager reads URBANOHIO!!!!   :clap:

 

The project seems exciting and looks to "one up" the Pinnacle.

 

 

I am really impressed with their website. It will be interesting to see how better advertising helps their pre-contstruction sales. Zaremba seems to be on the ball. I signed up to receive more information about the project, and someone from Zaremba wrote me back within 1/2 an hour (and it was at 10pm). Also, I was just on their website and I was looking at the site plan and they have two more sites listed for "potential development". I know there is still a lot up in the air with this project but it is encouraging that they have an optimistic outlook and that they are already looking into the future.

Weren't they supposed to open a sales office this month? Anyone know the status of that?

I talked to their Director of Sales and Marketing, and he said their sales office will be in the Galleria across from the food court.  I ate lunch yesterday in the Food Court and there's a place across from Stone Oven under construction.  I'm pretty sure that's it.  He said it was next to a bookstore and an art gallery.  The website is updated too.

Anyone else been in the Galleria lately?  I was surprised last month to see how many shops are actually open in there!  An independent book seller, an art gallery, etc. etc... and it will only do better with these high-end units being built across the street.  If this goes as well as expected and Tower City wants to reap the same benefits, Forest City's going to have to look to this project for guidance...

Welcome to the forum, downtowndreamer. Cleveland can always use more dreamers for the core city!