^They already have that at Reserve Square and it's not doing very well...

^They already have that at Reserve Square and it's not doing very well...

 

They were at 90% occupancy two years ago, what happened?

^They already have that at Reserve Square and it's not doing very well...

 

Since when?  I haven't heard anything about Reserve Square struggling.

Reserve Square is doing fine... I have heard that Chesterfield isn't doing particuarly well.  IMO it is poorly managed.

Reserve Square is doing fine... I have heard that Chesterfield isn't doing particuarly well. IMO it is poorly managed.

 

Probably has something to do with the fact that the apartments are straight out of the 60's......  It's such a great building with so much potential!  Street level retail, pool deck on the roof, etc.

ahh if only....

Reserve Square is doing fine... I have heard that Chesterfield isn't doing particuarly well. IMO it is poorly managed.

 

Probably has something to do with the fact that the apartments are straight out of the 60's...... It's such a great building with so much potential! Street level retail, pool deck on the roof, etc.

 

Yeah, all that building needs is a facelift.  When we toured it two years ago the apartments were hideous and dilapidated.  And the lady walking us through knew it.  I actually felt bad for her. 

Yeah must be hard to show off

I moved into Reserve Square in August and they had only a handful of singles left in the entire complex (both towers). From what I understand there's been somewhat of a mass exodus from Chesterfield to Reserve Square, in fact the guy who lives down the hall from me said he and 40 of his friends (I believe they're all exchange students) all left Chesterfield and moved over to Reserve Square within the last year.

K&D has done a pretty good job of turning reserve square around.  They also used to be horribly dated delapitated apartments.

Would it be economically feasible once the recession ends to renovate chesterfield to the full extent it needs to be?

Depends on how much money the owner is either willing to invest in the place... or if he sells, how much he/she want for the building.  That place needs a complete overhaul. It should be one of the best buildings in the city, and it is pretty much a dump.

Depends on how much money the owner is either willing to invest in the place... or if he sells, how much he/she want for the building.  That place needs a complete overhaul. It should be one of the best buildings in the city, and it is pretty much a dump.

 

Just from an outsiders view, How exactly should that building be one of the best in the city? I just don't see it.

Depends on how much money the owner is either willing to invest in the place... or if he sells, how much he/she want for the building. That place needs a complete overhaul. It should be one of the best buildings in the city, and it is pretty much a dump.

 

Just from an outsiders view, How exactly should that building be one of the best in the city? I just don't see it.

 

Location and amenities.  Rooftop pool!  No one else has that!

I've been in the Chesterfield a few times and it does have potential.  Walking through it, you get the feeling that it used to be a really classy place.  They have the pool, ground level retail, great location, good views, an attached parking garage, nice big lobby, etc...

It appears from there website, that the one avenue district building is completely sold out and that there are 6 townhouses still available. I think its a good sign that they were able to sell out the lofts and penthouses showing that there could be a possible demand for more.

^I find this very difficult to believe, especially given the great difficulty in obtaining condo loans lately.  I wonder if there are no lofts or penthouses available because they have been rented.  They were marketing a rent to own program which does not mean the "renters" are actually buying the properties.

Did any retail make its way to that building?

^no

^I find this very difficult to believe, especially given the great difficulty in obtaining condo loans lately. I am wonder if there are no lofts or penthouses available because they have been rented. They were marketing a rent to own program which does not mean the "renters" are actually buying the properties.

 

I agree.  I happened to drive right by it today and it looked anything but full.  I am starting to think that they should have just went all Townhomes until the "District" was more built up.  Townhomes sell in Cleveland; condos, not so much it seems to me.  Apartments rent, but condo sales are sluggish at best.  The projects I know of that have both component (such as AD and Bluestone) seem to do much better with the Townhomes.

That's not Cleveland... That's global. And I don't think there was any way for a developer to have any idea how radically affected the new build condo market was going to become. It basically doesn't exist right now. Certainly not the fault of the developer here who actually did everything "right".

But they arent selling the townhomes either

That's not Cleveland... That's global. And I don't think there was any way for a developer to have any idea how radically affected the new build condo market was going to become. It basically doesn't exist right now. Certainly not the fault of the developer here who actually did everything "right".

 

Eh.... I think Cleveland has never really had an affinity for high end condos.  At least not in our lifetimes.

The pinnacle condo tower is sold out except one penthouse

Please read the several posts I've made on this subject in this and other threads. It's not conjecture. it's fact.

The condo building is not sold out.  Something weird must be going on since they are not on Zaremba's main site either.

 

Zaremba has not been very talkative about this situation even to the homeowners, but maybe StrangeBrew will stop by to enlighten us.

wasnt there an article about a year ago about how i think panzica had a lien on the property and the condo building was in the middle of a lawsuit and it prevented them from selling condos? i think i remember that from somewhere

wasnt there an article about a year ago about how i think panzica had a lien on the property and the condo building was in the middle of a lawsuit and it prevented them from selling condos? i think i remember that from somewhere

 

Yes, but I don't think that it prevented them from being on the market, but I could be wrong.

What happened, as best as I know, is that Panzica placed liens on the condo building claiming it was owed $.  PNC than told Panzica to either remove the liens or sue for foreclosure.  Panzica sued and Zaremba counterclaime for alleged water damage caused by the improper installation of a sprinkler system.  The case is still ongoing.

While it may be the litigation that is causing the lofts and penthouses to be unavailable for sale per the website, even if they were able to market them I wonder how successful they would be.  Ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to obtain a condo loan unless you are putting a huge amount down anywhere, would you want to by a unit in a building that has mechanics liens and is involved in on going litigation relating to construction.  I would not want the possible headache and would just move on to the next building.

 

Moreover, the pending litigation probably means that absolutely no bank is going to lend to a buyer to purchase an individual unit, even without the credit crunch.

I just glanced at the court docket.  A receiver has been appointed.  From the looks of it this case is going to drag on for a LONG time.  I would hate to be the paralegal responsible for maintaining the client file.  I am sure it already takes up a file cabinet and the case is not even a year old yet.

Link?

...it is almost impossible to obtain a condo loan unless you are putting a huge amount down anywhere...

 

I've heard this mentioned before but have never heard a number.  What's an average percentage required to put down for a home loan these days versus a condo loan?

 

Regarding The Avenue District...  I feel it's a chicken and egg scenario.  Zaremba was trying to build a whole neighborhood downtown which looked awesome on paper.  But it had to be done in phases.  The phases that were built were some clustered townhomes and a condo tower a few blocks away.  But no new restaurants or retail ever came in.  There's still a bunch of surface lots and it doesn't feel like a "neighborhood".  I feel bad for those who bought early, assuming they were getting in on the ground floor of a brand new neighborhood because that never really happened.  It still CAN and I hope that it does but it must suck sinking $300-$400k into a brand new condo, thinking you were going to have this great neighborhood built up around you in a year and it never happens.

 

That's why I liked Bob Stark's old idea for the Warehouse District of doing everything at once like a "big bang".  But the market tanked and that never happened so maybe that strategy was flawed, too...

 

I'm glad that when they finally got funding for the Flats East Bank and divided it into phases that the office/hotel is coming first.  I think that's a better strategy than putting the residential first.  Even though downtown needs more residential, I think that residential will be even more valuable as Phase 2 than it was for Phase 1.  Maybe that should have been done with The Avenue District.

It depends on how many units in the condo building have been sold.  If two out of 100 condos have sold, then there is not enough money generated from condo maintenance fees to adequately maintain the building.....or some such logic like that.

 

That is the story I am hearing in Chicago, for what its worth.

It depends on how many units in the condo building have been sold.  If two out of 100 condos have sold, then there is not enough money generated from condo maintenance fees to adequately maintain the building.....or some such logic like that.

 

That is the story I am hearing in Chicago, for what its worth.

 

I don't know what the official numbers are, but I only know of 5 units being occupied for sure.  Most of the units on the 5th floor were finished off for corporate housing of some sort, but I don't know if anyone ever took possession of them.

 

EDIT:  There are only 5 people besides Zaremba listed on the Auditor's website under the 1211 address, but not all the units are listed there from what I can find.

Link?

 

http://cpdocket.cp.cuyahogacounty.us/p_CV_Docket.aspx

Someone I work with wants to know: why are the benches on E. 12th all facing inward - the buildings or parking lots?

Someone I work with wants to know: why are the benches on E. 12th all facing inward - the buildings or parking lots?

 

They're situated so that you can have a few people sit down and have a conversation.  The bench arrangements are supposed to be kind of like outdoor living rooms.

 

Oh, also, another townhome was sold, and the interior is currently under construction (drywall is up).

What is the status of sales in the condo building?  Any word on the other phases?  Is Zaremba still running the show?  That building looks so much worse than it should in its unfinished state.

^I imagine there will be no sales as long as that massive lawsuit is going on...who can get a loan for a condo with that litigation?

Ahh.... I got mixed up and thought that case had resolved.  Yeah, this is a mess.  Zaremba is getting sued on all sides by lienholders, contractors, subcontractors, etc. 

What is the status of sales in the condo building?  Any word on the other phases?  Is Zaremba still running the show?  That building looks so much worse than it should in its unfinished state.

 

I don't know all that much.  But what I do know is that

 

1. They haven't been allowed to sell condos during the arbitration (the townhomes are a separate situation).

2. Yes Zaremba is still running the show.  I've been told they hope to have this whole situation settled within the next couple months.

3. Obviously other phases are on hold until they sell what they have.

From the looks of the court docket, it appears that a lot of lawyers are making a lot of money off of this dispute...of course not necessarily a bad thing. :-D

Im hearing that the current building will likely be turned into rental units.  And since there were not that many sold, the current occupants will likely be bought out. 

^ Sounds like their best option at this point.

I still wouldn't choose that area in its current state to rent. I would like it though if they built more and just decided to make it all rental!

plans are in the works...but its complicated.  I don't think the condo owners are likely to be bought out though.

There could be a mixture of rental and owner occupied.  Doesn't have to be one or the other.

Has anyone heard any word on completing the initial project? I loved the initial Avenue District design (with surrounding buildings and store/restaurant fronts), but I fear this lawsuit has pretty much wiped out the rest of the project...

Has anyone heard any word on completing the initial project? I loved the initial Avenue District design (with surrounding buildings and store/restaurant fronts), but I fear this lawsuit has pretty much wiped out the rest of the project...

 

I'm in real estate and took a tour just before the completion of the single completed building and they said no other phase will begin until the current one is (60%?? maybe, can't remember the exact number) sold. And each one of those side buildings, the one east of the current one, and the couple that were supposed to wrap around E12th were a different phase. Not to mention the one across the street in that empty parking lot. So, all in all I'd say that there's no reason that the other phases won't go through once these legal issues get resolved and these things actually start selling. Just may take a while. I could be wrong though seeing has how I have no inside knowledge.

^I can't imagine they'd go ahead with only 60% sold.  I base that on the simple fact that the units really weren't selling.  If it takes them 5 years to sell 60% I can't see them pushing forward with another phase right away.  And now with all the litigation I'm guessing they're going to have to completely change their strategy.