Posted March 8, 200718 yr I felt like being dorky today. from the Bureau of Economic Analysis (2004 numbers, most recent) https://www.bea.gov 1. Cleveland-Akron-Elyria: $145,241,886 Population: 4,685,582 Per Capita Personal Income: 94% of national average Note: includes portions of PA 2. Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe: $77,932,447 Population: 2,547,005 Per Capita Personal Income: 93% of national average 3. Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington: $75,460,073 Population: 2,263,564 Per Capita Personal Income: 101% of national average Note: includes portions of IN and KY 4. Dayton-Springfield-Greenville: $41,727,332 Population: 1,386,663 Per Capita Personal Income: 91% of national average 5. Toledo-Fremont: $29,660,971 Population: 1,000,564 Per Capita Personal Income: 90% of national average Note: Portions of Ohio are included in the Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA EA and the Charleston-Huntingdon, WV EA. Interactive Map: https://www.bea.gov/regional/bearfacts/countybf.cfm?sublist=next&areatype=econ Definition of Economic Area: "BEA's economic areas define the relevant regional markets surrounding metropolitan or micropolitan statistical areas. They consist of one or more economic nodes - metropolitan or micropolitan statistical areas that serve as regional centers of economic activity - and the surrounding counties that are economically related to the nodes." Definition of Total Personal Income: "Personal income Personal Income is the income that is received by all persons from all sources. It is calculated as the sum of wage and salary disbursements, supplements to wages and salaries, proprietors' income with inventory valuation and capital consumption adjustments, rental income of persons with capital consumption adjustment, personal dividend income, personal interest income, and personal current transfer receipts, less contributions for government social insurance. The personal income of an area is the income that is received by, or on behalf of, all the individuals who live in the area; therefore, the estimates of personal income are presented by the place of residence of the income recipients. All state and local area dollar estimates are in current dollars (not adjusted for inflation)."
March 8, 200718 yr Wow, I thought Cincinnati even with Dayton would be closer to, or possibly more than Cleveland-Akron.
March 8, 200718 yr I just have trouble believing any study that includes Akron w/Cleveland, but doesn't include Dayton w/Cincinnati is a reliable and well researched project. And I know even w/dayton it appears cinci is still underwhelming, and I understand that studies like this are, indeed, relevant to the Federal govmt (unfortunately). Just a personal annoyance, I guess.
March 8, 200718 yr I just have trouble believing any study that includes Akron w/Cleveland, but doesn't include Dayton w/Cincinnati is a reliable and well researched project. And I know even w/dayton it appears cinci is still underwhelming, and I understand that studies like this are, indeed, relevant to the Federal govmt (unfortunately). Just a personal annoyance, I guess. Maybe they're seperate because Cleveland and Akron and Canton are one market (i.e. Canton and Akron have Cleveland's newscasts and channels , whereas Cincinnati and Dayton are two seperate markets.
March 8, 200718 yr Still, news-markets? Are they the most relevant factor as far as defining an economic region? Although I do believe Carl Monday is the best investigative reporter out there, and, himself, an economic meteorite for greater Cleveland.
March 8, 200718 yr Well I was using news markets as an example, an example that when people look at economic marketsthey look at areas that are connected strong economically. So I was saying the media as well as consumer markets are more entertwined in NEO than in SWO.
March 8, 200718 yr I just have trouble believing any study that includes Akron w/Cleveland, but doesn't include Dayton w/Cincinnati is a reliable and well researched project. And I know even w/dayton it appears cinci is still underwhelming, and I understand that studies like this are, indeed, relevant to the Federal govmt (unfortunately). Just a personal annoyance, I guess. Maybe they're seperate because Cleveland and Akron and Canton are one market (i.e. Canton and Akron have Cleveland's newscasts and channels , whereas Cincinnati and Dayton are two seperate markets. Interestingly, Cleveland's EA also includes the Youngstown-Warren-Sharon, OH-PA CSA. And the Mansfield MSA.
March 8, 200718 yr What I find interesting is the population numbers for the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria region. 4,685,582? That's almost 5 million people.
March 8, 200718 yr What I find interesting is the population numbers for the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria region. 4,685,582? That's almost 5 million people. That number is pretty similar to what is defined as "Northeast Ohio" on this very website. The boundaries of Cleveland's "Economic Area" almost exactly conform to Northeast Ohio... including Youngstown-Warren, Canton-Massillon, Mansfield, Sandusky, Wooster, Ashtabula, etc... PLUS Mercer Co, PA (which I suspect is more closely aligned economically to the Pittsburgh EA but gets lumped in the Cleveland EA due to it being part of the Youngstown CSA).
March 8, 200718 yr What I find interesting is the population numbers for the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria region. 4,685,582? That's almost 5 million people. Which is why Cleveland is sometimes listed as the Number 10, 11, 12 or 13 largest (undefined) metro area. It all depends on what the marketer wants to use.
March 8, 200718 yr This is not metro. This is Economic Area, which consists of a number of metropolitan and non-metropolitan areas that are economically related to central economic nodes. There are 179 defined Economic Areas, compared to the 350+ Metro Areas. Cleveland Economic Area ranks: 14th in Population 15th in Total Personal Income 46th in Per Capita Personal Income Annual Average Growth Rates (1994-2004): Total Personal Income: Cleveland 3.5% National 5.2% Per Capita Personal Income: Cleveland 3.4% National 4.1%
March 8, 200718 yr I've heard of CLeveland mentioned as among the top 10 of the USA's largest metro when talking about unofficial metro areas.
March 8, 200718 yr I've heard of CLeveland mentioned as among the top 10 of the USA's largest metro when talking about unofficial metro areas. uhhh..... lol ... there is no possible numbers manipulation you could do that would create some sort of Cleveland Top 10 fantasy metro/market/urban agglomeration... i have a feeling this thread is going to "jump the shark"
March 8, 200718 yr but that's comparing apples and oranges... Cleveland's Economic Area is not it's CSA let alone its MSA. Cleveland EA consists of: Cleveland MSA Akron MSA Youngstown-Warren MSA Canton MSA Sharon MSA Mansfield MSA plus some non-metropolitan counties throughout NE Ohio... like Tuscarawas and Wayne. That's where you get that 4.6 million population figure from.... well beyond the scope of a mere "metro".
March 8, 200718 yr ^Exactly!!! And it (EA), would be twelfth or thirteenth. But I've stil heard of Cleveland mentioned among top 10.
March 8, 200718 yr Cleveland's EA ranks 14th amongst the 179 EAs. You can only rank it against the EA of Detroit or the EA of Seattle... not the MSA or CSA of Detroit or Seattle, for example.....it just doesn't make sense to say "if Cleveland's EA was its metro... it would rank 12th amongst US metros" That's like saying that if I was a woman... at 6'1" I would be a very tall woman. But alas... I'm just an above average height man. Comparing two fundamentally different units just doesn't mean anything. Other Cleveland rankings: EA (14) MSA (23) CSA (14) Urbanized Area (21) Designated Market Area (16)
March 8, 200718 yr Evergrey, Evergrey, Evergrey, you can post all the stats you want (They are all familiar to me) and repeat them a million times. I still heard Cleveland was among the top ten, you're not going to change what I or MTS have heard.
March 8, 200718 yr "What you heard" is an inferior source of information compared to the hard numbers I've cited based on Census and Bureau of Economic Analysis statistics. BTW, I just noticed the Wikipedia entry for "Greater Cleveland" claimed that "Greater Cleveland" has between 4 and 5 million people and is amongst the Top 10 Metros... which is an erroneous and misleading use of numbers. They are defining "Greater Cleveland" as being roughly coincident with "Northeast Ohio"... it's fine if you want to define it that way... and there is certainly a population between 4 and 5 million in Northeast Ohio... but Northeast Ohio does not equal the "Cleveland Metro" and the "Cleveland Metro" does not come close to having 4 to 5 million people and does no come close to being a Top 10 Metro whether you are using MSA or CSA numbers. I edited that line from the Wikipedia entry due to its erroneous claim. If you want to compare Economic Areas, Cleveland is not in the Top 10. If you want to compare Media Markets, Cleveland is not in the Top 10. If you want to compare Metropolitan Areas, Cleveland is not in the Top 10. I'm not coming down on Cleveland... it's just the facts!
March 8, 200718 yr First I never said Cleveland metro equals Northeast Ohio, you did! You are the one making this a big deal. You don't know what my source was so who are you to say that? Also, is Wikipedia supposed to be a superior source, you demonstrated why its not.
March 8, 200718 yr I think its amusing how you're getting upset about my comments, when several posts back I told you I agreed with you. Amazing. -Out
March 8, 200718 yr You're going around in circles and you don't even know what you're argueing about anymore. You claimed that Cleveland is a Top 10 Metro based on a population figure of 4.6 million derived from its Economic Area. This 4.6 million figure is roughly the same the entirity of Northeast Ohio. Cleveland's Economic Area is roughly the same territory as the population of the entirity of Northeast Ohio. Therefore, you did indeed claim that Metro Cleveland equals Northeast Ohio, even if you did not say so explicity. Bottom Line: Cleveland is NOT a Top 10 metro no matter what numbers you use.
March 8, 200718 yr No I didn't, you don't know what you're talking about. I said I heard before that Cleveland was a top 10 metro. Never in this thread did I say Cleveland's Metro IS a top 10 metro. Don't put words in my mouth.
March 8, 200718 yr so does this mean the per captia income goes cincy cleveland columbus dayton toledo ?
March 8, 200718 yr No I didn't, you don't know what you're talking about. I said I heard before that Cleveland was a top 10 metro. Never in this thread did I say Cleveland's Metro IS a top 10 metro. Don't put words in my mouth. Ok, I can't dispute your assertion that you may have "heard" that Cleveland is a "Top 10 Metro" somewhere. But I can say with certainty based on factual evidence and hard numbers that Cleveland is not a "Top 10 Metro" no matter how you slice it.
March 9, 200718 yr This is getting almost as silly as the discussion going on in another thread were someone tried to compare the number of pedestrians in downtown Cleveland with those of New York and Chicago. These types of comparisons are simply inaccurate and unfair.
March 9, 200718 yr so does this mean the per captia income goes cincy cleveland columbus dayton toledo ? Yes!
March 9, 200718 yr If you live in Columbus, you'll know how it's possible. For outsiders, here's a hint: Go to the parking lot or garage at Easton and see what license plate pops up a lot. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 9, 200718 yr Per Capita Personal Income Average Growth 1994-2004: Cincinnati 4.2% National 4.1% Columbus 4.0% Dayton 3.6% Cleveland 3.4% Toledo 3.3% 2004 Increase over 2003 National 5.0% Cincinnati 4.9% Cleveland 4.2% Columbus 4.0% Dayton 3.1% Toledo 2.5%
March 9, 200718 yr Heck Columbus goes all the way down INTO WV how is that possible??? You're right. Columbus' EA includes Mason County, WV (pop. 25k). I didn't notice that.
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