^*Moonwalks the comment back*

^Even if we're talking just the city, how much do you know about Austin?

Or Columbus for that matter? Curious where you see any ®s running the city?

Or Columbus for that matter? Curious where you see any ®s running the city?

 

San Diego. I would assume Salt Lake City also, but nope.

^Even if we're talking just the city, how much do you know about Austin?

 

Love Austin. A Progressive Mecca in the heart of Texas, an absolute gem. But, there's still several staunchly conservative districts within the city as incorporated.

Looking at metro areas and using 2016 election data as a barometer, I see no real correlation between blue/red metro areas and growth. Austin and Cleveland are the bluest metro areas on that list, and they are the bookends. Cincinnati and Nashville are the reddest.

 

Source: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/12/mapping-how-americas-metro-areas-voted/508313/

^ Since March of 2010 Cleveland has added 82k jobs.  Up 9k from MAR 17 to MAR 18. 

 

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/SMU39174600000000001?amp%253bdata_tool=XGtable&output_view=data&include_graphs=true

 

March 18 numbers are the highest posted for the region since the Great Recession in '08. Though the numbers of jobs added since then have been low, the good news is that the region OFFICIALLY hit rock bottom and now is poised for grown. The economy here is different than it was in '08, let alone '02, the recession from which we have yet to recover. Cleveland is statistically smarter for sure, which will benefit the region as a whole in the future. 

If Cleveland's job market is as stagnant as those numbers indicate, which I can believe, property values and rents should be similarly stagnant. 

If Cleveland's job market is as stagnant as those numbers indicate, which I can believe, property values and rents should be similarly stagnant. 

 

Not really.  Banks are really giving away the money now so we're seeing borderline reckless lending.  Prices can't help but drop when banks tighten their metrics. 

 

Looks like summer of 2000 was the all-time high for Cleveland employment, with 1.14 million jobs, after a nice run-up in the late 90s. 

 

 

Cleveland’s job growth isnt really stagnant if you look at the numbers I’ve posted since 2010. 

If Cleveland's job market is as stagnant as those numbers indicate, which I can believe, property values and rents should be similarly stagnant.

 

They’re not.

Good-to-great:

 

Indianapolis: 116,800 jobs added (12.3%)

Columbus: 135,700 (14.3%)

Raleigh-Durham: 132,600 (16.5%)

Charlotte: 172,500 (16.7%)

 

Explosive:

 

Nashville: 196,400 jobs added (24.7%)

Austin: 270,600 (34.3%)

 

We've had the debate in other threads, but if this doesn't illustrate the economic power of a state capitol, I don't know what does.  5 of the 6 listed here are state government centers.  All those steady paychecks help keep things going in the down times, and help make things sizzle in the good.

Good-to-great:

 

Indianapolis: 116,800 jobs added (12.3%)

Columbus: 135,700 (14.3%)

Raleigh-Durham: 132,600 (16.5%)

Charlotte: 172,500 (16.7%)

 

Explosive:

 

Nashville: 196,400 jobs added (24.7%)

Austin: 270,600 (34.3%)

 

We've had the debate in other threads, but if this doesn't illustrate the economic power of a state capitol, I don't know what does.  5 of the 6 listed here are state government centers.  All those steady paychecks help keep things going in the down times, and help make things sizzle in the good.

 

The old state capitol excuse.  How's Lansing doing?  Madison?  Springfield?  Topeka?  Lincoln?  St. Paul vs Minneapolis?  Tallahassee?  Harrisburg?  Albany? 

 

We can go on and on and on. 

 

 

Pierre is really kicking ass

^Even if we're talking just the city, how much do you know about Austin?

 

Love Austin. A Progressive Mecca in the heart of Texas, an absolute gem. But, there's still several staunchly conservative districts within the city as incorporated.

 

Until a couple years ago, their city council elections were at large, so there had literally been zero GOP city council members for a long time. Things changed slightly in 2014, when the city switched to a ward system, but even after that change the council is like 70% Dem. 

Good-to-great:

 

Indianapolis: 116,800 jobs added (12.3%)

Columbus: 135,700 (14.3%)

Raleigh-Durham: 132,600 (16.5%)

Charlotte: 172,500 (16.7%)

 

Explosive:

 

Nashville: 196,400 jobs added (24.7%)

Austin: 270,600 (34.3%)

 

We've had the debate in other threads, but if this doesn't illustrate the economic power of a state capitol, I don't know what does.  5 of the 6 listed here are state government centers.  All those steady paychecks help keep things going in the down times, and help make things sizzle in the good.

 

The old state capitol excuse.  How's Lansing doing?  Madison?  Springfield?  Topeka?  Lincoln?  St. Paul vs Minneapolis?  Tallahassee?  Harrisburg?  Albany? 

 

We can go on and on and on. 

 

 

I don't think it hurts to have a bunch of built-in government jobs, but I think the true differential is timing and a large university. That's were the true growth is happening now. It just so happens that some of the cities it's happening in are also state capitols.

Having a large university doesn't necessarily guarantee success.  While Lincoln, Lansing, and Tallahassee are doing fine, I wouldn't exactly put them as stand-outs even with large state universities.  Conversely, Des Moines, Omaha, Kansas City, Grand Rapids, and Indianapolis lack any sort of large university and they are the Midwest's top-class aside from Columbus and Minneapolis.  My metro (Dayton) has a large built-in government employment center (WPAFB) but is still a stagnant metropolitan area. 

 

Timing, perhaps, is key.  Or not. 

^Even if we're talking just the city, how much do you know about Austin?

 

Love Austin. A Progressive Mecca in the heart of Texas, an absolute gem. But, there's still several staunchly conservative districts within the city as incorporated.

 

Austin is Texas's "liberal reservation" and it's become a mecca of sorts for both left libertarians from California and right libertarians from Texas and the south.  A lot of IT people fled there when California started getting really stupid.

 

The fact that's it's Texas keeps the left's worst impulses in check, the fact that it's Austin the right's.

Is it the presence of a large university, or a large university alongside state government?

All the "successful" cities from this article lack the historical baggage of transitioning from a large scale industrial economy in the 20th century, and the extreme racial/socio-economic issues that accompanied that situation. I have nothing against them for it (I guess), but rioting and steel mill closures didn't bury Austin or Columbus in the 1960's. Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Detroit are obviously still digging themselves out with varying levels of success.

To me it's not much more complicated than that.

It's like the minute people see melted-down industrial it kills the cities' appeal to anyone from outside the region... and among a lot of people from inside too.

At the very least it means that the net employment numbers of a region are dragged down by losses from industries that are mature of even becoming obsolete.

Using the BLS link posted in another thread, I tallied the jobs numbers for the 3Cs and their closest competitors since March 2008. They seem to fall into four categories: stagnant, fair, good-to-great, and explosive.

 

Stagnant:

 

Cleveland: 5,100 jobs added (0.5%)

Pittsburgh: 37,100 (3.3%)

 

Fair:

 

Cincinnati: 52,500 jobs added (5.1%)

Kansas City: 78,900 (7.8%)

 

Good-to-great:

 

Indianapolis: 116,800 jobs added (12.3%)

Columbus: 135,700 (14.3%)

Raleigh-Durham: 132,600 (16.5%)

Charlotte: 172,500 (16.7%)

 

Explosive:

 

Nashville: 196,400 jobs added (24.7%)

Austin: 270,600 (34.3%)

 

I cherry picked the stats for each of these cities (minus Raleigh-Durham) this morning. I took the recession lows, and the post-recession highs. The only thing that happens is Cleveland passes Pittsburgh and Charlotte is on the fence if not over into the "explosive" group.

 

City: Low Date - High Date: Jobs Added (%)

 

Pittsburgh:    February 2010 - November 2017: 108,200 (9.9%)

Cleveland:    January 2010 - June 2017: 103,200 (10.6%)

Cincinnati:    January 2010 - June 2017: 144,700 (15.1%)

Kansas City:  January 2010 - December 2017: 158,500 (16.8%)

Indianapolis: January 2010 - November 2017: 187,300 (21.1%)

Columbus:    January 2010 - December 2017: 196,900 (21.9%)

Charlotte:      July 2009 - December 2017: 270,300 (29.0%)

Nashville:      July 2009 - November 2017: 258,100 (34.8%)

Austin:          July 2009 - March 2018: 296,800 (38.9%)

Using the BLS link posted in another thread, I tallied the jobs numbers for the 3Cs and their closest competitors since March 2008. They seem to fall into four categories: stagnant, fair, good-to-great, and explosive.

 

Stagnant:

 

Cleveland: 5,100 jobs added (0.5%)

Pittsburgh: 37,100 (3.3%)

 

Fair:

 

Cincinnati: 52,500 jobs added (5.1%)

Kansas City: 78,900 (7.8%)

 

Good-to-great:

 

Indianapolis: 116,800 jobs added (12.3%)

Columbus: 135,700 (14.3%)

Raleigh-Durham: 132,600 (16.5%)

Charlotte: 172,500 (16.7%)

 

Explosive:

 

Nashville: 196,400 jobs added (24.7%)

Austin: 270,600 (34.3%)

 

I cherry picked the stats for each of these cities (minus Raleigh-Durham) this morning. I took the recession lows, and the post-recession highs. The only thing that happens is Cleveland passes Pittsburgh and Charlotte is on the fence if not over into the "explosive" group.

 

City: Low Date - High Date: Jobs Added (%)

 

Pittsburgh:    February 2010 - November 2017: 108,200 (9.9%)

Cleveland:    January 2010 - June 2017: 103,200 (10.6%)

Cincinnati:    January 2010 - June 2017: 144,700 (15.1%)

Kansas City:  January 2010 - December 2017: 158,500 (16.8%)

Indianapolis: January 2010 - November 2017: 187,300 (21.1%)

Columbus:    January 2010 - December 2017: 196,900 (21.9%)

Charlotte:      July 2009 - December 2017: 270,300 (29.0%)

Nashville:      July 2009 - November 2017: 258,100 (34.8%)

Austin:          July 2009 - March 2018: 296,800 (38.9%)

 

What is the percentage? Is it the percentage increase in the total number of jobs in the metro? Do you mean to say that Cleveland had 10.6% more total jobs in June 2017 than in February 2010?

 

What is the percentage? Is it the percentage increase in the total number of jobs in the metro? Do you mean to say that Cleveland had 10.6% more total jobs in June 2017 than in February 2010?

 

Correct.

Correct.

 

It's amazing how close the statistics are for Columbus versus Nashville...there are certainly signs of physical growth in Columbus, but in Nashville the sheer number of tower cranes and small infill projects is on a much higher level. 

Correct.

 

It's amazing how close the statistics are for Columbus versus Nashville...there are certainly signs of physical growth in Columbus, but in Nashville the sheer number of tower cranes and small infill projects is on a much higher level. 

 

It is pretty frustrating, but they've grown about 50% more than us since 2010; but they grew only 3,000 more than Columbus this past year. So if Columbus keeps that momentum in the coming years we could start to see us approaching their crane levels. And considering we're neither in the South nor a tourist destination, I'd say getting to their level would be quite impressive. We're seeing a flurry of development right now that a lot of is finishing up this year. Once lenders see them get occupied (residential, retail, and commercial) we should see our next flurry of proposals soon. Hopefully this time we'll get some height!

They're very different places.  Much of the hi-rise construction in and near DT Nashville is hotels.  The number of infill single-family houses in the in-town neighborhoods is pretty amazing. 

 

Of course, Nashville lacks a major university.  Vanderbilt is at best a quarter of OSU's size. 

Correct.

 

It's amazing how close the statistics are for Columbus versus Nashville...there are certainly signs of physical growth in Columbus, but in Nashville the sheer number of tower cranes and small infill projects is on a much higher level. 

 

We had 20+ tower cranes up in the past year in the Columbus metro and a good majority of those were downtown or surrounding neighborhoods.  We ARE there at both the tower crane level and the infills in surrounding urban neighborhoods. 

Didn't know where else to put this. Cutest thing I've seen today (other than my 5-year-old son!).....

 

In the Boomer generation, workers went to where employers were located. Now employers (Amazon HQ2's shortlist illustrates the point) are locating where the young, educated workers are, says Joseph Nahas, Jr., of the Counselors of Real Estate. #NAREE18

Ohio's 100 largest employers - 2018 rankings; Walmart No. 1, then who?

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/news/erry-2018/06/008cac58aa80/ohios_100_largest_employers_20.html#incart_2box

^How very annoying of the PD--couldn't they just use a table?  this isn't clickbait as its all one page----its taking forever to load all those corporate logos.

If you want a nice clean list---go here:  https://development.ohio.gov/files/research/B2001.pdf

 

The PD advertising spread is annoying and is STILL loading. Very poor layout planning on behalf of the pd....

....in other news, those folks (soybean farmers), since the tariffs were announced, have lost  appx. $44.5K for a 500 acre field. The area truck farmers are starting to plow under, or let rot in the field, Strawberries, Cucumbers. and most likely the tomato crop as well. This had to do with no one to do the back breaking work for low pay...Thanks donnie boy, I am sick and tired of all the winning!!! (Information came from a Wood County Ohio farmer I know)

Not to be a dick, but maybe rural people need to feel a little personal pain to realize they made a huge mistake in supporting Trump.

The rhetoric aimed squarely at them will blame minorities, immigrants, "lazy people", economists, other nations, Democrats etc. then they will too.

Trump supporters whole life is personal pain. They are miserable, and their joy is seeing liberals upset.

Much in the same way 13-year-old boys only like wrestling heels and reject all babyface characters.

A blast from the past....  1947 map showing how US states proportionally contributed to US manufacturing, highlighting Chicago:

^Interesting. I would have expected Ohio to be bigger. Also, Wisconsin is larger than I would have expected.

A High School Reunion Reveals: When Steel Mills Fell Silent, Fates Got Flipped

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/03/640257956/opinion-a-high-school-reunion-reveals-when-steel-mills-fell-silent-fates-got-fli

Cleveland economy outperforms Cincinnati, Columbus in 2017

 

Cleveland’s economy grew more than Cincinnati’s and Columbus’ last year,, according to data released Tuesday by the federal Bureau of Economic Analysis.

 

The data show Cleveland has the largest economy of the state’s metro areas and the 28th largest in the nation.

 

The Cleveland area has benefited from a comeback in manufacturing. Last year’s growth also was driven by a strong increase in mining and natural resources industries.

 

The Cleveland economy grew by 2.9 percent last year and was valued at $140 billion.

 

The Cincinnati economy increased by 2.4 percent in 2017 to $138 billion and the Columbus economy was up 2.1 percent to $136.3 billion. Overall, Cincinnati had the 29th largest economy and Columbus was 30th, according to the analysis, which seeks to measure the total value of goods and services in an area.

 

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180918/cleveland-economy-outperforms-cincinnati-columbus-in-2017

As many of you know, I track development for fun, including for my blog NeoTrans, and talk to lots of people involved in real estate development (sales, construction, legal, etc). They're all reporting that they're extremely busy and their companies are hiring from small-town Ohio and other parts of the USA and even overseas. It's apparent that what happened in 2017 in Cleveland is continuing through 2018.

^^ Funny how it's a bunch of back and forth for biggest economy in the state. Each of the 3C's has held this title within the past year, IIRC.

^^ Funny how it's a bunch of back and forth for biggest economy in the state. Each of the 3C's has held this title within the past year, IIRC.

 

I always wonder what it would be like if all the economic might of Ohio was concentrated in one city (e.g. Indianapolis, Chicago, NYC in their respective states) instead of split between three equally.

Imagine if we linked all three of them plus Dayton and maybe Akron with a high-speed rail line to unite their combined 8 million population into a more cohesive, productive economic machine.

^^ Funny how it's a bunch of back and forth for biggest economy in the state. Each of the 3C's has held this title within the past year, IIRC.

 

I always wonder what it would be like if all the economic might of Ohio was concentrated in one city (e.g. Indianapolis, Chicago, NYC in their respective states) instead of split between three equally.

 

I like three city-states instead of one empire, tbh

As many of you know, I track development for fun, including for my blog NeoTrans, and talk to lots of people involved in real estate development (sales, construction, legal, etc). They're all reporting that they're extremely busy and their companies are hiring from small-town Ohio and other parts of the USA and even overseas. It's apparent that what happened in 2017 in Cleveland is continuing through 2018.

 

It's great to see the Three C's back-to-back-to-back economically in Ohio.  I'll add my comments about Cleveland's economy to Cleveland's thread.

Imagine if we linked all three of them plus Dayton and maybe Akron with a high-speed rail line to unite their combined 8 million population into a more cohesive, productive economic machine.

 

That would be nice.  But we did give the funding to California and lowered taxes for job creators...so there's that.... ::)