Tenneco to close Ohio plant, lay off 1,100 worldwide

Wednesday,  October 29, 2008 

 

LAKE FOREST, Ill. (AP) -- Tenneco Inc. on Wednesday announced that it will cut 1,100 jobs worldwide and close five facilities in a broad restructuring of operations as the company grapples with an industry downturn.  The maker of emission and ride control systems for automobiles said the move and other cost cutting efforts are expected to save $64 million a year.  Tenneco expects to record charges of up to $60 million for restructuring - of which $25 million will be recognized in the fourth quarter and the rest through 2009.

 

The company is restructuring one North American plant and closing four, including a Milan, Ohio, elastomer facility and an original equipment emission control plant in Evansville, Ind.  Its Dunsborough, Australia, engineering operation will be shut down as well.

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/29/aten.html?sid=101

No more Windmill cookies... :-(

 

 

Creditors: Fraud led to Archway's closure

 

By LINDA MARTZ • News Journal • October 28, 2008

 

MANSFIELD — Creditors of Archway Cookies LLC are claiming fraud was a factor in the company’s recent closure.

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

 

[email protected]

419-521-7229

 

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20081028/NEWS01/81028030/-1/

 

Mixed messages on Steel

 

U.S. Steel posts record profits of $919 million in third quarter

 

Wednesday, October 29, 2008 6:59 AM EDT

By MORNING JOURNAL STAFF

[email protected]

 

PITTSBURGH — U.S. Steel, which operates the Lorain Tubular Operations at the 28th Street steel mill, reported third quarter net income of $919 million yesterday, which John P. Surma, chairman and chief executive officer, called "the most profitable quarter in our century" in a release.

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

 

http://morningjournal.com/articles/2008/10/29/news/mj175496.txt

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Slowing demand has REP laying off

 

 

Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:46 AM EDT

By SCOT ALLYN

[email protected]

 

LORAIN — Republic Engineered Products in Lorain has laid off part of its work force for one week due to weak demand for its bar stock from the auto industry, among others.

 

The steel mill on 28th Street produces that produces 9/10 inch mill has been idled for one week, said Don Golden, president of United Steel Workers Local 1104. He did not know how many workers would be affected. Local 1104 represents more than 1,000 workers at Republic Engineered Products.

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

 

http://morningjournal.com/articles/2008/10/28/news/mj169249.txt

 

See this for a plant that was to be built in southeastern Ohio --

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,13242.msg336141.html#msg336141

Whirpool Corp. lays off 250 workers in Clyde

By SARAH WEBER | Friday, November 7, 2008 5:39 PM EST

 

CLYDE

 

http://sanduskyregister.com/articles/2008/11/07/front/966879.txt 

 

"It happens."

 

"It's too bad."

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

 

AT A GLANCE:

 

Whirlpool Corp.

 

119 Birdseye St., Clyde

 

Employees: 3,500

Republic to lay off hundreds at Lorain plant

Posted by Sarah Hollander/Plain Dealer Reporter November 10, 2008 11:47AM

Categories: Breaking News, Manufacturing, Real Time News

Updated 4:15 p.m.

 

More area steelworkers are facing layoffs as Republic Engineered Products plans to temporarily idle the blast furnace at its Lorain plant next month.

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/11/republic_to_lay_off_hundreds_a.html

Sebring company exhibits in international fuel cell show

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.the-review.com/news/article/4467430

     

Laurie Huffman

November 15, 2008

The Review

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

[email protected]

State loans to improve shipping of products

Saturday,  November 22, 2008 3:13 AM

By James Nash

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Ohio plans to jumpstart economic development and improve transportation networks for business by handing out $100 million in forgivable loans, state officials announced yesterday.

 

The loans, which top out at $10 million, will be available to companies that come up with projects that tie together different transportation networks -- roads, railways, shipping and airports -- to help move goods across the state.

 

Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher, who heads the Ohio Department of Development, said priority will be given to projects that not only improve the state's transportation infrastructure but also quickly create jobs.

 

"There are so many reasons we are perfectly situated to be the distribution and logistics heart of the country," Fisher said. "Just look at a map."

 

[email protected]

 

More @

 

http://dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/11/22/ECONOMIC.ART_ART_11-22-08_C12_84BVCLI.html?sid=101

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1861417,00.html

 

US Steel Producers Feeling Recession Pains

 

By AP / DANIEL LOVERING

 

(PITTSBURGH) — Just weeks after posting record profits, steel makers are facing a harsh new reality: dwindling orders, production cuts, layoffs. And tougher times lay ahead, analysts say.

 

The steel industry had been riding high earlier this year, as surging demand from China and other countries, coupled with soaring prices for materials used in steel making, produced the most lucrative market for the metal in more than 60 years.

 

...

Lance Inc buys Archway Cookies and hires back employees in Ashland, Ohio who got screwed by the former owners.  This is a great story at this time of year.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/23/cookie.factory.reopens/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Wow, they even gave the workers a $1500 Visa to do their Holiday shopping and/or get caught up on bills.  We need more good corporate citizens like this.

 

Now, go to the Lance website and thank them for what they did.  Then, go buy some Archway cookies to thank them again!

I absolutely love this story, and it really makes me want to support Lance cookies.

I sent an e-note to the CEO of Lance Inc. to thank them for such a massive good deed.  Archway cookies will be on my shoppping list from now on.

I almost cried when I saw that story.

Lewd Daubs needs to pick up this story.

Lewd Daubs needs to pick up this story.

:roll:

 

I am sure you can contact him about it. 

What are some good business schools in Ohio?

 

I've heard that Xavier has a good business program?

Graduate or undergraduate?

 

Miami has a nationally ranked undergraduate program.

 

Case Western has an excellent graduate program.

 

Don't know where Ohio State's program ranks, but I think their grad school is pretty good.

 

Xavier's program is relatively inexperienced.  I won't comment on the quality, but I have strong reasons to be suspicious.

 

But it doesn't matter which ones are good.  It only matters where the local companies recruit.  Case is much, much better than Xavier.  But no Cincy company would hire a Case grad.  Cincy has an Old Boys Network where so many went to Xavier.  They know the school, and look for people just like themselves when hiring.  They thing the school is great, so they think the graduates are great.  They may or may not be, but so many local recruiters can't get past the name.

 

So if you live in Cincy, go to Xavier.  If you live in Cleveand, go to Case.  Same for C'bus, Dayton, Toledo, etc.  Ohio companies are notorious for hiring from local colleges.  They have an unbelievable ability to not see beyond the city boundries.  I got my Master's in Info Mgmt from the #1 program in the country - yet practically no recriter in Ohio knows the university exists except for its sports team.  Maybe I'm condeming local company recruiters more than the companies, but nearly every hiring person I've met in Ohio has been a lot of fluff, and from the local neighborhood.

 

Anyway, pick the city you want to live in, then pick the buisiness school that all the locals go to.  in Cincinnati, that is Xavier, even though UC and NKU could be better for all I know.

 

Undergraduate.

 

Lets say I was planning on living in Chicago in the future. Would it be more beneficial to go to a school in Chicago?

What I learned being an outsider who earned a Master's in Cincinnati is that many of the corporate jobs in town go to those with baccalaureate degrees from UC who did co-ops at those companies while in school. If you come to town to get a Master's, don't be surprised to have the jobs you are competing for go to people with Bachelor's that essentially have worked for the company for two years already. Most graduate students don't get to do co-ops. Internships are limited here due to all the co-ops, and if you are like me and choose a one year accelerated program, you won't be able to do one.

Some pretty strong conspiracy theorists here...

 

I got my undergrad at XU in Economics and am currently in their MBA program. I was hesitant to get my graduate degree from the same institution, but Xavier is really the only game in town for an MBA (the only one nationally ranked anyhow). I've heard good things about UC's business school but can't comment first hand.

 

In any case I think it matters more how you present yourself and how you interview than where you went to school. The obvious exception would be the top 10 b-schools, your Chicago Universities, Harvards, Thunderbird's, Whartons etc...

Xavier's program is relatively inexperienced.  I won't comment on the quality, but I have strong reasons to be suspicious.

 

Can I ask for those strong reasons? As a stakeholder I'm interested in what your concerns are.

Do business schools teach about the Federal Reserve, the money supply, deriviatives and all of those other topics related to the credit collapse?  I try to read newspaper articles on the topic and am lost.

Those topics are covered in most Economics and Finance classes.

Thanks, REK.  I recall reading advice in a magazine on getting an MBA.  They said to go to one of the highly rated schools or to graduate with honors to be sure that you find the best job opportunities. Yes, I realize that we are talking about undergraduate work.  Best wishes

Graduate or undergraduate?

 

Miami has a nationally ranked undergraduate program.

 

Case Western has an excellent graduate program.

 

Don't know where Ohio State's program ranks, but I think their grad school is pretty good.

 

Xavier's program is relatively inexperienced. I won't comment on the quality, but I have strong reasons to be suspicious.

 

But it doesn't matter which ones are good. It only matters where the local companies recruit. Case is much, much better than Xavier. But no Cincy company would hire a Case grad. Cincy has an Old Boys Network where so many went to Xavier. They know the school, and look for people just like themselves when hiring. They thing the school is great, so they think the graduates are great. They may or may not be, but so many local recruiters can't get past the name.

 

So if you live in Cincy, go to Xavier. If you live in Cleveand, go to Case. Same for C'bus, Dayton, Toledo, etc. Ohio companies are notorious for hiring from local colleges. They have an unbelievable ability to not see beyond the city boundries. I got my Master's in Info Mgmt from the #1 program in the country - yet practically no recriter in Ohio knows the university exists except for its sports team. Maybe I'm condeming local company recruiters more than the companies, but nearly every hiring person I've met in Ohio has been a lot of fluff, and from the local neighborhood.

 

Anyway, pick the city you want to live in, then pick the buisiness school that all the locals go to. in Cincinnati, that is Xavier, even though UC and NKU could be better for all I know.

 

 

Ohio State's Max Fisher college of business is ranked about 20th. I'm not a big fan of rankings - I think it a college education is what you put into it but but take it for whatever that's worth.

 

Xavier has some sort of mentor program for their students which I suppose is great for networking.

Do business schools teach about the Federal Reserve, the money supply, deriviatives and all of those other topics related to the credit collapse?  I try to read newspaper articles on the topic and am lost.

 

I learned all about that in Economics which was separeate from Business school - it was part of arts and sciences. At UC my friend in finance took a more superficial version of economics (I guess since you pick up the rest of the pieces in other business classes, maybe?)

 

Pick up a copy of Mankiw's (Pronounced like Man-uh-kew) "Macroeconomics". It's a big expensive text book but you could buy it off of ebay for about 50 bucks. There's also a Microeconomics version. Mankiw was chairman of the counsel of economic advisors under Bush's administration so the book has become sort of the gold standard. If you read those macro/micro books you'd have a good basis for economic theory. After that, economics is mostly boring math. It goes into monetary supply and credit and all that.

Graduate or undergraduate?

 

Miami has a nationally ranked undergraduate program.

 

Case Western has an excellent graduate program.

 

Don't know where Ohio State's program ranks, but I think their grad school is pretty good.

 

Xavier's program is relatively inexperienced.  I won't comment on the quality, but I have strong reasons to be suspicious.

 

But it doesn't matter which ones are good.  It only matters where the local companies recruit.  Case is much, much better than Xavier.  But no Cincy company would hire a Case grad.  Cincy has an Old Boys Network where so many went to Xavier.  They know the school, and look for people just like themselves when hiring.  They thing the school is great, so they think the graduates are great.  They may or may not be, but so many local recruiters can't get past the name.

 

So if you live in Cincy, go to Xavier.  If you live in Cleveand, go to Case.  Same for C'bus, Dayton, Toledo, etc.  Ohio companies are notorious for hiring from local colleges.  They have an unbelievable ability to not see beyond the city boundries.  I got my Master's in Info Mgmt from the #1 program in the country - yet practically no recriter in Ohio knows the university exists except for its sports team.  Maybe I'm condeming local company recruiters more than the companies, but nearly every hiring person I've met in Ohio has been a lot of fluff, and from the local neighborhood.

 

Anyway, pick the city you want to live in, then pick the buisiness school that all the locals go to.  in Cincinnati, that is Xavier, even though UC and NKU could be better for all I know.

 

 

Ohio State's Max Fisher college of business is ranked about 20th. I'm not a big fan of rankings - I think it a college education is what you put into it but but take it for whatever that's worth.

 

Xavier has some sort of mentor program for their students which I suppose is great for networking.

 

Link to list, please?

U.S News and World Report 2009

17th overall, 9th among public universities

5th Supply Chain Management and Logistics

8th Production and Operations Management

13th Finance

13th Real Estate

14th Accounting

14th Marketing

21st Management

 

http://fisher.osu.edu/about/ranking-and-statistics/rankings/#ug

 

I don't like rankings. There seems to be so many great entrepreneurs without a college degree or with a mediocre degree. My grandpa went to Malone College in Canton for MBA after getting an undergrad degree in English literature. Now he's a business management consultant in Japan and makes six figures. He also just wrote a book called Turnover. He said he learns more from the Wall Street Journal and Financial Times and such, more than anything else. If you want to move to Chicago maybe you should check out schools there - like University of Illinois - Chicago, Northwestern, Loyola, DePaul, etc.

 

I can vouch for Columbus though - it's a wonderful city. I think you'd like it.

I'm currently a sophomore in high school, so I still have time. Next year I will be taking college courses through my school, so I was planning on getting an associates degree and then transferring somewhere. My parents aren't paying for all of my college, ~30k, so ultimately my goal was to get out of college with little to no debt, but now that doesn't seem possible.

 

I don't really plan on living in Ohio. I want to live in a big city, and out of the three in the U.S., LA and NYC aren't really realistic because of the cost of living, and Chicago would be closest to my family anyways (I live in the Cleveland area). So as of now I plan on living in Chicago in the future.

 

I wouldn't mind living in Ohio if one of our cities was more developed.

Next year I will be taking college courses through my school, so I was planning on getting an associates degree and then transferring somewhere.

 

Bad idea. I know at least a half dozen people, including family members, who have gone that route and ended up either a.) stopping once they got their associates, these people now work in retail and one is a janitor (not kidding), or b.)  taking about 4 more years to finish up their Bachelor's anyway. I know it sounds tempting to finish your first two years of school at a cheaper college and then transfer, but there's just too many variables.

 

My advice is to go to a 4 year university where you can focus on school, have a little fun, and intern somewhere in the summers so you'll have a connection once you graduate.

 

One quick note about college loans.

 

I'm sure most of you know this, but there is good debt, and bad debt. 

Good debt provides you with financial leverage so you can attain something that will benefit you, but which you can't afford with your normal cash flows, ie college loans, mortgage etc...

 

Bad debt is debt that does absolutely nothing for you, ie credit cards or even car loans.

 

I know debt is a four letter word to some, but it can really help you out if you use it wisely. Just don't load up the credit cards.

Lets say I was planning on living in Chicago in the future. Would it be more beneficial to go to a school in Chicago?

 

Absolutely. Your networking potential for work in Chicago will be far greater if you go to school out there as opposed to Ohio. You'll see and hear about more jobs there than you would living in Ohio. With that said, still try to go to the best school you get into and can afford without going 100 grand in debt (big debt is increasingly dangerous these days).

 

 

Clearly, C-Dawg has this topic nailed to a T.  I agree with his advice completely, and recommend you follow it.  I have an undergrad degree in Finance from Miami U, and did half of an MBA at Syracuse University, before transfering to the Info Mgmt program.  Since my wife also works for a University, I have a lot of knowledge in these things. 

 

C-Dawg has given you some great answers.

 

------------------

Xavier has some sort of mentor program for their students which I suppose is great for networking.

 

This is Xavier's real strength.  At the risk of offending studenst of the school, I have not been overly impressed with many of the graduate's I've met, for various reasons. Maybe its just the ones I met.  But if your goal is to work in Cincinnati, I'd probably put XU at the top of the list due to networking.  Local companies like the product XU is producing.  But if you want to work out of the area, the XU degree would not carry nearly as much weight.

 

And Yes,, OSU's Fisher school is definetely ranked above Miami's on the graduate level.  Traditionally, Miami has had the edge in the undergrad program.

 

One thing Miami is known for is producing graduate-school-ready students.  A large number of its students go on to graduate school.  The recruiters for graduate schools across the country (particularly in the east) know the Miami name and the students who come out of the school, and tend to give them the nod when accepting students.  Not universal, of course, but the school is viewed highly favorably by graduate programs across the country (Kenyon is in the same category, but maybe not in business).

 

(Moderators: please move to the general chat section if this is inappropriate here.)

 

This weekend my wife and I visited one of those hillbilly meccas: Trader's World. What I would like to know is, do these places make any real money for most of the vendors? Or is it just a revenue engine for the owner of the buildings?

 

Basically, you have about 5 or 6 standard flea market business types:

 

Biker leathers vendors (the cheap, heavy black stuff that is 1/4 inch thick with maltese crosses and chopper embroidery.)

 

Over scented "handmade" soy candles and supplies. And enough fake vanilla and pine scent in the air around these places to make you vomit.

 

"Thrift stores" that are at least three quality notches below Dollar General, with 100% Chinese origin goods. Including dicey looking toothpaste named "Crescent" (aka "Crest") from China that seems to be similar to the stuff with antifreeze in it that started the whole poisonous Chinese goods scandal a few years ago.

 

Used book, tape and DVD stores.

 

*Really* crappy used computer stores with absolutely nothing made after 2003 (we're talking stacks of beige CRT monitors and no flat panels.)

 

Crappy tools vendors with things like tablefulls of rechargeable drills without the batteries (note: I have four really nice rechargeable drills at home that each require $100+ in replacement battery packs. The batteries cost more than buying a new drill! So there is no need whatsoever to buy an orphaned drill.)

 

Oh, and the food court in the center of the complex the weirdly medieval hillbilly/briar motif, with really low dark lighting, country knick knacks nailed to the walls, and oddball country music playing.

 

Basically, it's "down below" of Babylon 5 meets deep discount hillbilly shopping culture meets poverty. I expected to find people living in corners of the place huddled under blankets burning furniture to stay warm.

 

Or another pop culture reference is, I expected to see little Asian guys at stalls doing small scale genetic engineering of eyeballs and body parts  a la Blade Runner.

 

There's something uncomfortably survivalistic about the whole scene. Most of the vendors seem too desperate to sell you something. It reminded me also of going to street markets in Mexico and not being able to blow off a merchant because they want to run after you and haggle with you.

 

The biggest problems with these places, in my opinion: truly repetitious mechandise (what I listed above is 80% of the vendors.) Little real value at most of the stores. As noted, lots of stuff that would otherwise get hauled away as junk. And in general, sensory overload. Even if something really good was being sold at one of the places there, you would probably not notice it above the din.

 

I also noticed that the ENTIRE complex was full. We saw NO empty vendor spaces. (Well, my wife disputes that. I thought the entire place was packed out.)

 

IMO, these places are a waste of money for the vendors. I bet that the economy is causing lots of people to try to hang a shingle out. And not a terribly good place to go shopping. (We just went to get out of the house.)

 

Any thoughts? I think there is some sort of grand "anti pattern" for going into business represented by the place. Like, here's what you do to ensure failure  - 1) have lots of similar competition 2) sell total crap 3) place yourself where people suffer sensory overload so even if you DO sell quality merchandise, you will never be noticed. 4) Look really desperate.

 

Some places did seem to do well. I saw a hair salon that was permanently located with a real door. The food vendors seem to be "established". Other than that - subsistence city.  :cry:

Your anti-pattern reads like a place I visited this weekend, Ikea. LOL @ anyone buying that crap and thinking they got some kind of deal. Just spend more for something you won't have to replace in three months. Flea markets are supposed to sell crap, that's why they are flea markets. Now, if you're looking for bargains, go to yard sales in spring. We're having one featuring some baby stuff and assorted crap. I would be glad to take your money. :)

I don't really know anything about grad school, so if anyone could explain, it would be helpful. Is grad school for like.. anything over 4 years? How beneficial is it? Is it recommended with a business degree?

My guess is you answered your own question about profitability for the vendors with your statement that the stalls are always full.  It's fairly easy to turn a profit if the barriers for entry are low (i.e.-little rent or regulation and most of the "merchandise" is old junk, or stolen), and the profit doesn't have to be large to be "worth it" if the opportunity costs of the vendors' time are also low (i.e.- why you don't see many Doctors or lawyers are working a table).

I'm really and truly trying :evil: to see past the social class aspect of this. Commerce is commerce and that's always a good thing in itself. But, as an eyewitness, I really didn't see much commerce being conducted. Most of the vendors reek of poverty.

 

My wife's grandmother used to rent stalls at flea markets to sell antiques (and I hardly saw anything worthy of being called "collectible" at Trader's World, except at one arguably excellent comic book vendor). My wife says that her grandmother hardly made her stall rent in profit.

 

It would be a really interesting study to map a collection of vendors at some well traveled flea market and track them in 3, 6, 9 and 12 months to see what the attrition rate is. I see it kind of like judging the effectiveness of a classified ad: look for a competitor's ad over a period of time and see if they continue to advertise. If they do, then the ads are definitely worth the cost. Same with this.

Now, if you're looking for bargains, go to yard sales in spring.

 

This is particularly good if a place is seeing a lot of hard times as people try to sell of stuff to get some money together.

 

Back in the very early 1980s, when I was still living (unemployed) in Louisville there was a lot of plant shutdowns and mass layoffs, sort of what Dayton is going through now.

 

So people would do these impromptu yard sales, but not just on their yard.  They would commandeer abandoned gas stations and dead retail stuff on some of highways leading out of town and set up shop there.  Nowadays this scene is the province of the confederate flag/velvet elvis painting dealers, but back them you could pick up quality stuff that people where selling so they could scrape up the cash to move to Texas or wherever.

 

I figure something like this might be going on with flea markets, except its more of a survival thing were people try to sell stuff to say afloat, rather than sell off stuff to get a stake together for a relocation.

 

 

I wonder if there has been downward pressure on the flea marketers with the advent of Ebay and Craigslist. You could get more money selling crap on one of those sights than sitting at a place like TradersWorld for a weekend.

Maybe you should speak to your college counsellor? If you're just a sophomore, you have some time to figure all this out, but a preliminary chat with your counsellor could be beneficial.

I think a lot of the shoppers at places like the one described are very leery of any online transactions.  Older people, people who may not have computers or know very much about them, etc.

 

I know I grew up with a house filled with the kind of stuff you get at these sorts of flea markets.  There CAN be gems out there if you're willing to put in a little elbow grease (say, a set of old cast iron skillets that just need scoured and re-seasoned) or if you have some tinkering ability (old/inoperable radios that my Dad eventually got working were all we ever had in terms of a stereo system).  I mean, I grew up on Goodwill clothes and toys, these flea markets aren't that much different.  I wouldn't buy anything you consume there (like the toothpaste) and neither would my parents - we made homemade cleaning solvent and toothpaste when times were hard instead of buying junk like that.

 

I wouldn't be surprised in this economy if more people started going back to those places to find cheap/old things to refurbish and re-use instead of just buying everything new all the time.

Re: buying cast-offs -

 

Amazingly for the size of the place, I saw *NOTHING* that fits the description of "discarded gems". Nothing whatsoever that I would consider worthy of buying for refurbishing. The quality of the merchandise there was almost uniformly "crap."

 

The only exceptions to this: a used comics store with some very good collectible stuff; a "Jerky" store with some deals (only thing is, they kept the samples on a plate out where anyone passing by could cough on it  :-( ); and a clothing place that had decent Steve and Barry's new winter coats for $10/apiece.

 

My opinion is that the reason for the astoundingly low quality of the "merchandise" at flea markets is the online economy, and I agree that you would probably find lots of computerphobes there.

 

Good stuff is being sold online through Ebay and CL, not flea markets. I would see a chicken and egg problem with trying to sell good merchandise for what it's worth at a flea market; anyone with money wouldn't bother shopping there. And low quality *free* stuff is available through freecycle.org.

The last time I went to one of these places, I agree, it was ALL junk and no "gems" in there.  I think the flea markets that are set up to operate every day, all year-round have this problem, not the ones that are occasional like at a fairgrounds or something.  I have a theory that people with a hoarding problem like certain relatives of mine are those who end up buying the junk at these places.

In south florida they have one thats acres and acres with a minature amusement park and farmers market attached. This attracts plenty of crap but also a few fledgling businesses, like service providers (car stereo installtion and window tinting) and very specific merchandise sales (home made hot sauce for example). Anyway once it reaches a critical mass it seems these can turn into something really unique and profitable.

 

Until that point, you basically have a level of merchanidise well below the expectations of the average modern American consumer. Then again, the lowest 10% is still 30 million people!

I can't say I'm specifically familiar with Trader's World but I'm quite familiar with the business and growing up in a blue-collar family in Appalachian Ohio, I'm also very familiar with the "social class aspect".

 

You're absolutely right - that many of the vendors *are* in poverty and that the only way many places (speaking of the flea markets themselves) stay in business is due to high turnover rates coupled with a often-deluded notion that all one has to do is pay $20 a day, set up a table full of crap and people will gladly shell out $$$ for whatever is being peddled. Some vendors exploit illegal immigrants to shill knockoff purses, t-shirts, etc. while others just lack any critical thinking skills to realize that they're selling junk. And yes - many flea markets are full of those ilk, and we would say "oh that's all tube-socks at that place". Others actually have a good mix - the tubesocks/thrift shops/crap are ubiquitous at any place but some (Hartville in Stark County and to some extent Rogers in Columbiana County) have a better balance. As for the crap sellers - that's what they are, that's what they'll always be. Sadly, there will always be a market for them - I don't think a lot people on this forum can comprehend the level of abject poverty that exists in places like Appalachia. In cities and even small towns, there's usually some level of access to the most basic of amenities (internet at a library for example) and social services. That's not always the case for someone who lives ten to twenty miles outside of the nearest small town. It's not necessarily that people are computerphobes (though that's definitely a factor) but I think a lot of people underestimate the effects of rural poverty. That's another story for another thread.

 

Getting back on topic, my parents started by selling books just at flea markets - they both love to read, and figured that if they were going to try and sell something, why not books - specifically antique/collectible books?  Not Harlequin romance novels or out-of-date textbooks, but they went out to estate sales, did some research and found that people would rather auction off Grandma's box of old dusty books for a dollar than dig through it to find anything of value. My parents have gone to auctions, purchased a box of books for a dollar and sold a few of those books for a hundred dollars each. They're simply willing to take the time to dig a little, do some research and price their findings accordingly. They also presented themselves to buyers as being interested and serious about what they sold. Once someone swiped a book from my parents stand (they hadn't noticed until closing up) - they weren't too upset, it was priced at $10.00 (according to guide books worth $20) but since they paid 50 cents for it, meh. Anyway, little by little they started to accumulate a decent inventory - sure, they had to have a few Danielle Steele novels and whatnot for the daily sales bread&butter (thrifty 50something women at flea markets LOVE those things and are happy to pay a little less than sticker price for a secondhand copy). I helped them out with setting up, etc. and if they sold $100.00 worth, that was a good day.

 

Nowadays, they usually sell around $500 per outing and that's enough to supplement their retirement income. They also reduced their time at flea markets and rented a booth at a sizable antique mall. They also became members of the regional collectible booksellers association which gave them access to contacts, sales leads, etc. Some of their best customers are other dealers who have stores in quaint coastal towns (East or West) and can literally charge ten times what my parents charge. They found their niche within specific subgenres and they developed more business through referrals. All of those little steps have helped them build their business. As blue-collar/bumpkin as my folks can be (they'd be the first to agree with me) - they knew d@mn well when the internet came along - that they now had global access to serious buyers. They save the big bucks items for online buying and the booksellers annual sale which pulls in a modest four-figure amount.

 

And all that started with their interest in books, and plunking down $20 one day to rent a few square feet at a flea market. Like so many other things in life - it's what you make of it.

 

MayDay, those are good insights. I think that *perhaps* I saw one or two businesses out there that fit your notion of "potential good quality business in incubation phase." There was, indeed, someone selling what looked like their own homemade hot sauces. And the comic book vendor's inventory seemed to be high enough quality that it could be a decent freestanding store.

 

I would have really enjoyed more true collectibles stores and more really unique places.

 

It did seem that the majority of the booths were owned by those lacking those critical observational and thinking skills, who were just imitating all the crap that everyone else was selling.

 

I think that a "100% collectibles" mall along the lines of a flea market but only with "quality" dealers *could* work. IE: no lookalike crafts and soy candles and Chinese tube socks. Maybe a used book dealer like you're describing, perhaps specializing in a genre like sci-fi, some artisanal food vendors, maybe a used camera dealer. And "balanced" - once they had two antique clothing stores, don't allow any more unless one of the existing places leaves.

 

The Second Street Mart in Dayton is a pretty good model for what I'm thinking, but it is mainly having to do with food items and produce.

 

The sin that most outlet and flea market malls commit regularly is to *be boring* and one-dimensional. How about a mall where mom can look at her kitchen accessories, the kids can check out a vintage toy vendor, and Dad can find antique radios?

 

It seems to be heresy with outlets and flea markets to have a merchandise mix that doesn't bore someone smart to tears.

 

One question  - do you mean to say that the visitors and sellers at Trader's World in Monroe are literally driving in from Appalachia for the day? Or do you mean that this place simply attracts the dirt poor and is a draw for "Appies"? IE, Trader's World is the go-to place where you go in the Cin-Day region if you come from Appalachia or if you are so poor that you need to buy Chinese toothpaste laced with ethylene glycol? :(

Wait a minute.

 

Just to be fair, I want to include the "World of Sanding Belts" vendor at Traders World for a positive mention. :) (It is one place that seemed to have every conceivable sanding belt and pad.)

I wonder if there has been downward pressure on the flea marketers with the advent of Ebay and Craigslist. You could get more money selling crap on one of those sights than sitting at a place like TradersWorld for a weekend.

 

 

I think those stands are actually a better deal than ebay. I used to have an ebay store. They charge you listing fees and paypal takes a percentage of the transaction. Plus you have to arrange for UPS to pick up deliveries or take the boxes to your local post office. It's much easier to just pay 20 bucks a day for a stand and not have to worry about each transaction. It may be time consuming to sit out all day on weekends but I had to take measurements on each shirt I sold and take customer service inquiries - then worry about my feedback which can make or break you.

 

There's a few vendors in Cincinnati that sell those African animal sculptures on the street. I have a few of them. They're wooden and wrapped in leather and painted. I love craftsmanship. They may have been made in a factory though.

 

I think ppl on this site can't appreciate flea markets because it's not part of our culture. The tools, native american art work (obviously mass produced lol), etc. is something a rural person would use. Street vendors in the city sell sunglasses, hats, wallets, cds... it's a little more trendy. In any case, I'm not going to knock anyone's hustle. Everyone has to do what they have to do to survive. Some people are illiterate and some are convicted felons who can't get a job ANYWHERE. They could be selling crack but they choose to sell tube socks and tools.