Posted March 11, 200718 yr Of course Charlotte, the world's greatest and proudest city, is 1st... always take these things with a grain of salt ;) http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070215/dcth062.html?.v=61 BET.com Announces New Research That Ranks Charlotte, NC #1 'Best City' with Columbus, Ohio and Washington, D.C. Tied for 2nd WASHINGTON, Feb. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- BET.com announced today the results of a multi-city research project to determine the Best Cities in America for Black Families. Taking the #1 spot as Best City is Charlotte, NC. Tied for second place in the Best Cities category were Columbus, Ohio -- the top city in BET.com's 2001 research project -- and Washington, D.C. For more information, click above link.
March 11, 200718 yr From the BET website: http://www.bet.com/Site+Management/Packages/clevelandworstcities.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished&Referrer=%7B5765683A-DDDB-4132-9B25-8ADF8A88A346%7D Why Cleveland Didn't Make the Cut By Mary Chapman Cleveland, Ohio Total Pop.: 414,534 (yeah right, Census Bureau.) Black Pop.: 53.8 percent Summary: Part of a rust-belt state battered by poor manufacturing economics, the Lake Erie city has high poverty, especially among its youth. Salaries lag the nation and the unemployment picture for Blacks is off the chain.
March 11, 200718 yr And Columbus: http://www.bet.com/Site+Management/Packages/COLUMBUSBESTCITIES.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished Total Pop: 693,983 Black Pop: 25 percent Summary: Chosen by BET.com as the No. 1 city for African Americans in 2002, Columbus is a community of diverse neighborhoods, low unemployment and relatively low crime rates. It is a destination for well-educated African Americans.
March 11, 200718 yr all this from a company that doesn't even own "bet.com" nor has any original programming. This is total bullshit & inaccurate - I just called Debra Lee to give her a piece of my mind.
March 11, 200718 yr I don't think it's bullshit at all. When: > 25 percent of Cleveland households don't have a car (more than 50 percent don't have cars in some poorer neighborhoods like Kinsman) > only 8 percent of the region's available jobs are within a 40 minute public transportation trip and > 60 percent of the government-assistance recipients are in the core city and 70 percent of the new jobs are in the exurbs ...you're going to have a very tough economic situation for inner city residents. This isn't just an economic situation. It's matter of civil rights. But, hey, let's go build another friggin' highway interchange in the exurbs (Avon). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 200718 yr lol Whoa... lay off the mindless boosterism. None of you are discussing the issues (besides KJP)... the results of the survey, the hard numbers (poverty rate, crime rate, etc.), problems, solutions... or even analyzing the methodology... we can fling mud at the BET organization all we want... but how does invalidate the 39% poverty rate? If you don't think poverty, crime rates, educational attainment are appropriate indeces for determining "quality of life for Black Americans"... than explain why.
March 11, 200718 yr btw, has anyone been able to find the full list of cities? it would be interesting to see where Cinci ranked (if they were included)
March 11, 200718 yr What I do know is that Columbus is one of the top African American success cities and I'm proud I call it my home (for now). There is definately a positive vibe going on here in regards to black education, African poetry, etc. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 11, 200718 yr I detest BET for more obvious reasons than this list. They're programing is mindless jumble. Nothing that truly discusses issues in the black community or even news national or otherwise. In the last 5-6 years it's really gone downhill IMO. Where u thinkin about moving to Colday?
March 11, 200718 yr We'll see :). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 11, 200718 yr Probably Charlotte... which is the No. 1 city for Black Americans. Anything else would be a downgrade. ;)
March 11, 200718 yr OK, lesson learned: Add this survey to ranks of Forbes' "comical" list of surveys.
March 12, 200718 yr Its another ranking that paints the entire metro region as if it were the central city of Cleveland. Of course things are going to look rosier for the metro governments versus cities like Cleveland. I'm not saying things are great for the black man in Cleveland, but its not as bad as the stats say.
March 12, 200718 yr I couldn't find their methodology, and they don't consistently tell you the raw stats for different cities in a comparable form, so its anyone's guess as to how the rankings were actually created.
March 13, 200718 yr I don't think it's bullshit at all. When: > 25 percent of Cleveland households don't have a car (more than 50 percent don't have cars in some poorer neighborhoods like Kinsman) > only 8 percent of the region's available jobs are within a 40 minute public transportation trip and > 60 percent of the government-assistance recipients are in the core city and 70 percent of the new jobs are in the exurbs ...you're going to have a very tough economic situation for inner city residents. This isn't just an economic situation. It's matter of civil rights. But, hey, let's go build another friggin' highway interchange in the exurbs (Avon). Well said.
March 13, 200718 yr I don't think it's bullshit at all. When: > 25 percent of Cleveland households don't have a car (more than 50 percent don't have cars in some poorer neighborhoods like Kinsman) > only 8 percent of the region's available jobs are within a 40 minute public transportation trip and > 60 percent of the government-assistance recipients are in the core city and 70 percent of the new jobs are in the exurbs ...you're going to have a very tough economic situation for inner city residents. This isn't just an economic situation. It's matter of civil rights. But, hey, let's go build another friggin' highway interchange in the exurbs (Avon). Are you saying Cleveland is at the bottom of the list because of sprawl? It's more of a problem for metro Cleveland than any other city?
March 13, 200718 yr I couldn't find their methodology, and they don't consistently tell you the raw stats for different cities in a comparable form, so its anyone's guess as to how the rankings were actually created. The entries start out with the same base stats like education levels and income, but yes there are omissions in particular entries especially when their ranking is explained in detail. I take this whole thing with understandable reservation but there should be some thought provoking discussion about miniority issues in major cities.
March 13, 200718 yr [quote author=David link=topic=12186.msg169770#msg169770 Are you saying Cleveland is at the bottom of the list because of sprawl? It's more of a problem for metro Cleveland than any other city? Yeah, Charlotte and Columbus are total sprawl.
March 13, 200718 yr ^Uhh... "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 13, 200718 yr Is it any coincidence that all the cities at the top of the list were'nt part of the wave of African Americans fleeing the south for jobs that were dwindeling in the 1940's and 50's in the north. I bet this list would be absolutely flipped upside down 60 years ago. Charlotte, North Carolina as a black haven? I don't know where I'm going with this, just an observation.
March 13, 200718 yr I think part of the problem with this list is that it purports to discuss "The Best Cities In America for Black Families" while the factors they look at seem to sort of reverse the concept. It tells us "The Most Well-off Black Families and where they live." The fact that there is a lot of poverty among blacks in Cleveland does not, to me, mean that it's a bad place for black families per se. Infant mortality rate? If a black couple moves here, it's not like their infant suddenly has a better chance of dying. I think this is much more an economic issue than it is a racial issue.
March 13, 200718 yr Not drawing any conclusions here, but it's interesting that the top cities (with the exception of DC) have majority white populations. The bottom cities are Detroit and Cleveland with majority African American populations.
March 13, 200718 yr This list is a judement of current black families in the respective cities, not on whether or not one can succeed if they moved there. If I were an African American in Cleveland, I'd have a big problem with this kind of list. BET or whoever conducted this probably may not have even realized that is what they were researching.
March 13, 200718 yr The list really is about the quality of African American life. Economics are certainly part of it, but so is arts, political culture, the movement of progression in black business, yada yada yada. Cleveland and Detroit are established black cities while Columbus and Charlotte have black populations but never a large amount. Thus, you will see cities that are embracing African Americans and are growing (somewhat) like Columbus, Indianapolis, and Charlotte high on any list. Established black communities have internal problems resulting in political, social, and economic strife (no one place can be a testament to this than Detroit). Charlotte is high on MANY African Americans lists to move to (as Atlanta is becoming oversaturated within the community) due to it having a growing percentage of "black money" and a "nice" quality of life (which in planning is laughable, but white folks did it to in the 50's and on [thus, national issue]). Columbus and Indianapolis also excel in this, Midwestern-wise (though both are not nearly on the same black business level as Charlotte or Atlanta). And keep in mind, though Cleveland has a fantastic African American community (The Karamu Theater for Christ sakes), due to history, reason for being (rail lines sending Southern blacks to Northern cities to work blue-collar/menial jobs), and poverty levels, you can clearly see why BET (or any black organization) isn't exactly going to toot the horn of a former industrial rustbelt city. But of course, personally, I find Cleveland a wonderful place to be black and get paid. But again, I'm not Bob Johnson...err...Viacom. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 13, 200718 yr And keep in mind, though Cleveland has a fantastic African American community (The Karamu Theater for Christ sakes), due to history, reason for being (rail lines sending Southern blacks to Northern cities to work blue-collar/menial jobs), and poverty levels, you can clearly see why BET (or any black organization) isn't exactly going to toot the horn of a former industrial rustbelt city. But of course, personally, I find Cleveland a wonderful place to be black and get paid. Amen to Karamu House! When I was in elementary school, we used to do workshops there every so often. Those are some of my favorite childhood memories.
March 13, 200718 yr who's at fault here...the thugs who roam the streets stealing and vandalizing, dealing drugs...or investors who resist large areas of our city because of this. im confused as to how this situation can be remedied...at least somewhat.
March 13, 200718 yr When you solve that, then you'll solve one of the biggest planning issues in America. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 14, 200718 yr you almost need to consolidate and isolate housing projects to one area instead of spreading them out in neighborhoods and wrecking everything...which has happened. How bout we build some housing projects out in the land cleveland owns in chagrin highlands. that would put low income people closer to good paying jobs, easy access of highways, and piss Jacobs off all to hell with his Harvard Park.
March 14, 200718 yr When you solve that, then you'll solve one of the biggest planning issues in America. Is that putting to much onto planning? Planners may know how to rebuild neighborhoods and cities, but how can they be expected to rebuild the lives of people who see no future in anything but creating chaos?
March 14, 200718 yr We have to design and somehow create attractive neighborhoods and influence social policy in order to change a deficient mentality. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 14, 200718 yr I think it makes a difference when community residents have a strong vested interest in their community. Just seeing how places like Northside and College Hill operate in Cincinnati, with all the entrepreneurs that fill the storefronts and live nearby and have MANY REASONS to care about the quality of life in the neighborhood--makes a difference in what happens there. They become neighborhoods with a strong identity which I think people are inherently drawn to. Then pretty soon developers catch on.
March 14, 200718 yr you almost need to consolidate and isolate housing projects to one area instead of spreading them out in neighborhoods and wrecking everything...which has happened. How bout we build some housing projects out in the land cleveland owns in chagrin highlands. that would put low income people closer to good paying jobs, easy access of highways, and piss Jacobs off all to hell with his Harvard Park. I would have no better joy than putting some of the problems of the city directly into the suburbs. Great idea, or at the very least, put all housing projects along the peripheries of the city to share the burden of police and everything else, then let the core regroup and rebuild. Not the best social policy perhaps but if your main goal is to create a community of people vested in their neighborhoods, this is one option. This is precisely what Chicago (considered one of the most segregated cities) did with the public housing in their city. The South Side is completely cut off from the Loop and the rest of the city by a tangle of freeways serving as social barriers. This was a cognitive urban design solution for what they knew could happen if the projects were spread out. Chicago went one way; Cleveland, St. Louis, and Detroit chose the other way hoping that mixing citizens would help everyone. But what it did was push away the middle class who did not want to deal with the less well off. Funny how you can trace the fates of cities of millions of people from a small amount of big decisions.
March 15, 200718 yr I really do not think that in all cities mixing poor is a bad idea. Truely, Columbus has a lot of projects mixed into nicer areas. Italian Village had a lot of projects and now most are redone into developments where its 90 percent market 10 percent low income. It works out fine, Many sociological studies show that when the poor is mixed in there is less crime issues and better employement and quality of life. Also, police and city resources are not being spent on trying to control one area where the poor is totally concentrated. Columbus' east and northeast sides have the most projects still, but placing the projects in mixed areas seems to have performed ok in certain neighborhoods in Columbus. I am really not for keeping the poor in one ghetto, I am for mixed income neighborhoods. Some other neighborhoods, Linden and Northland, in columbus have seen middle class flight because of the poor mixed in, and thus people not wanting those poor attending school with their children.
March 16, 200718 yr I just realized why Columbus was ranked so high in the rankings... We're home to the one and only, almighty Chicken District! Where else do you find a Popeye's, a Church's, and a KFC (not pictured) at one intersection! A virtual smorgesborg of fried delight!
March 16, 200718 yr Don't forget the Chicken District also has White Castle and Rally's, two hood staples as well. The Chicken District is the greatest neighborhood in the Midwest. Like, by far. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 16, 200718 yr My differential threw a pin in the Chicken District and I was stranded there for quite a while. It was sub-zero temps and dusk. Good times...
March 16, 200718 yr But can you boast of a "Hot Sauce Williams"!!...I think Lee Rd North of Harvard Ave. in Cleveland might give the chicken district a run for it's money....
March 16, 200718 yr The Chicken District is the greatest neighborhood in the Midwest. Like, by far. CDM should change his name to Facetious, the Greek God of horse puckey. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 16, 200718 yr But can you boast of a "Hot Sauce Williams"!!...I think Lee Rd North of Harvard Ave. in Cleveland might give the chicken district a run for it's money.... Hot Sauce Williams is trash, even for cheap soul food. Now if you want real soul food, go to Shield's and Hook's in west Dayton. It makes Hot Sauce Williams look like Mr. Hero. The Chicken District is the greatest neighborhood in the Midwest. Like, by far. CDM should change his name to Facetious, the Greek God of horse puckey. And KJP should change his name to Aether, the God of Upper Hot Air. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 16, 200718 yr Popeyes > KFC > Churchs I wish Cincinnati had a chicken district. I think its common for Popeyes to be next to KFC though. Similar to blockbuster and hollywood.
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