If Cleveland is "the worst" for blacks, how bad is it for the other races in Cleveland? They have to contend with most of the same issues, AND are in the minority.

If Cleveland is "the worst" for blacks, how bad is it for the other races in Cleveland? They have to contend with most of the same issues, AND are in the minority.

 

You should probably check out WET.com's study as I doubt that BET.com was focusing on the caucasians.

And KJP should change his name to Aether, the God of Upper Hot Air.

 

I'm happy with my given name, Erectus Maximus.

Popeyes > KFC > Churchs

 

I wish Cincinnati had a chicken district. I think its common for Popeyes to be next to KFC though. Similar to blockbuster and hollywood.

 

Hey we also have Brother's Fried Chicken on Livingston - w00t

^Ahem.  BUCKEYE Fried Chicken :)

I honestly think the rankings had to do with the fact (as they always do) that the inner-ring suburbs were not included. If you include Lakewood, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, and a number of other suburbs where black middle class families live or for that matter any of the communities where the majority of our middle class families live - you'd come up with a lot more accurate and realistic picture of the quality of life for African Americans in Cleveland.

^Ahem.  BUCKEYE Fried Chicken :)

 

Is that open again?

I hope not.

I honestly think the rankings had to do with the fact (as they always do) that the inner-ring suburbs were not included. If you include Lakewood, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, and a number of other suburbs where black middle class families live or for that matter any of the communities where the majority of our middle class families live - you'd come up with a lot more accurate and realistic picture of the quality of life for African Americans in Cleveland.

 

Same could have been said for Detroit, actually.

If Cleveland is "the worst" for blacks, how bad is it for the other races in Cleveland? They have to contend with most of the same issues, AND are in the minority.

 

You should probably check out WET.com's study as I doubt that BET.com was focusing on the caucasians.

 

Come on...... Everyone knows in this politically correct country whites are the only race that are "racist" if they have anything that promotes Caucasians. I'm sure you were being facetious.

^That's hardly true.

 

I think what we need in Cleveland is a neighborhood full of "Buppies" and middle class blacks and other ethnicities in the city. For one I think there is a market for that type of urban and middle class neighborhood in Cleveland and Ohio and it could help show some misguided youths that you can make money other ways than being a dough boy, rapping or playing a pro sport. (I think the Rockefeller Park part of Glenville would be perfect for this). A neighborhood of locally owned business, gentrified streets, and a stronger sense of community.

I honestly think the rankings had to do with the fact (as they always do) that the inner-ring suburbs were not included. If you include Lakewood, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, and a number of other suburbs where black middle class families live or for that matter any of the communities where the majority of our middle class families live - you'd come up with a lot more accurate and realistic picture of the quality of life for African Americans in Cleveland.

 

Same could have been said for Detroit, actually.

 

or any city in the study

 

 

I think what we need in Cleveland is a neighborhood full of "Buppies" and middle class blacks and other ethnicities in the city.

 

I could not agree with you more.

Then now do you change the perception that its a white city?

 

If you ask other people, primarily outside of Ohio, white people give Cleveland a thumbs up, blacks & latinos generally just go "Cleveland?"

 

Again..it goes back to Cleveland/NE Ohio not having any type of marketing/communications/PR strategy.

We can analyze this thing to death but what this topic should be called is “BET.com ranks Columbus as 2nd best city for Black Americans, Cleveland the worst out of 22 cities”. As the poster started this topic with the disclaimer “take these things with a grain of salt” says it all.

 

Cities Selected:

 

• Atlanta

• Baltimore

• Boston

• Charlotte

• Chicago

• Cleveland

• Columbus

• Dallas

• Detroit

• Houston

• Indianapolis

• Jacksonville

• Los Angeles

• Memphis

• Milwaukee

• Nashville

• New Orleans

• New York City

• Oakland

• Philadelphia

• St. Louis

• Washington, D.C.

 

Where are Miami, Cincinnati, Tampa, San Francisco, San Diego, Minneapolis, Denver, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Buffalo, Phoenix, and others?

 

If these cities were included we would have entirely different rankings. What are the criteria for picking certain cities and not others.

 

Btw New Orleans is not second to or last?  :wtf:

 

Yes, educated folks know to take with a grain of salt as BET cannot even produce original programming.

 

However, the impressionable 16-25 year olds that want to move somewhere that is "preceived" as fun, young, "poppin'" over run with jobs.  To that demographic, places like Atlanta, Vegas, Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, Houston, DC, Chicago, LA, Dallas will "rank" high on the list. They see PEOPLE OF COLOR in major positions trying to empower people of color; Higher entrepeneurship among people of color; people like themselves partying, supposedly living large, with good shopping and driving around in nice cars and corporations sponsoring or hosting events (Most poweful Black in entertainment, top 25 Latinos in Media, MTV awards, BET Awards, NAACP awards, etc.) in their cities.

 

Granted we know most of those (excluding CHI & DC) jobs are low level, low paying service oriented jobs with high turn over.

 

The X factor is there is a higher or more united since of a black community in those cities who "appear" (perception) to be getting ahead and/or have a better chance at a better (quality of) life.

 

Even if Cleveland is better city all around, the black community rates low compared to the cities mentioned on the list (ie Philly, Nashville, Memphis, Jacksonville, Charoltte, etc.). 

 

Even those of us who were born and raised in the 'burbs don't feel connected to any sort of positive or progressive BLACK or other community of color.

We can analyze this thing to death but what this topic should be called is BET.com ranks Columbus as 2nd best city for Black Americans, Cleveland the worst out of 22 cities. As the poster started this topic with the disclaimer take these things with a grain of salt says it all.

 

Cities Selected:

 

Atlanta

Baltimore

Boston

Charlotte

Chicago

Cleveland

Columbus

Dallas

Detroit

Houston

Indianapolis

Jacksonville

Los Angeles

Memphis

Milwaukee

Nashville

New Orleans

New York City

Oakland

Philadelphia

St. Louis

Washington, D.C.

 

Where are Miami, Cincinnati, Tampa, San Francisco, San Diego, Minneapolis, Denver, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Buffalo, Phoenix, and others?

 

If these cities were included we would have entirely different rankings. What are the criteria for picking certain cities and not others.

 

Btw New Orleans is not second to or last?  :wtf:

 

 

 

That's a good point... at first I could not find what cities were selected for the study... so I didn't know... but the list of cities seems rather arbitrary... it is neither the 22 largest city propers or the 22 largest metros. 

 

Even if Cleveland is better city all around, the black community rates low compared to the cities mentioned on the list (ie Philly, Nashville, Memphis, Jacksonville, Charoltte, etc.). 

 

There's a black community in Nashville??? I never saw them when I lived there.

 

I also heard some crazy stat about Portland. Something like the African American population is only 10% of the total.

 

Even if Cleveland is better city all around, the black community rates low compared to the cities mentioned on the list (ie Philly, Nashville, Memphis, Jacksonville, Charlotte, etc.). 

 

There's a black community in Nashville??? I never saw them when I lived there.

 

I also heard some crazy stat about Portland. Something like the African American population is only 10% of the total.

 

Wim...that's my point!  Those over suburbanized inner cities that look like the Cleveland Clinic, don't have black strong hold positive progressive neighborhoods to begin with and their "diverse" neighborhoods are "whitewashed" so to speak....yet Cleveland (and you might as well say all of OHIO) get a bad rap!  Memphis is another place where blacks are suffering, and the cost of living and rate of pay is below Cleveland's, but the perception is all on union street or main street is fine.  they rave about peabody place which is a LOW BUDGET towercity of today.

 

I mean seriously.  Look at the diversity here on Urbanohio.  The majority of people here are white males in their mid 20s to their late 30s.  Who other than me, CDM, oldmanladyluck, FHTH, CMH Downtown are people of color here?

 

There are plenty of Ohioans debating this issue on the BET boards, has anyone here, invited them to join urbanohio??  I thought about it and I thought about asking CDM to do it, but I honestly thought someone else would (my second choice was MayDay, cause I know he like his rice-and-beans and collard greens :wink:) have thought about it.  I'm sure there points of view would appreciated here.

 

I didn't do it myself for personal reasons.

 

but anyway...how do we move our neighborhood of color in the right direction and fight the perceived notion that we are a racial polarizing unwelcoming city?

 

I need some coffee & an attitude adjustment :mrgreen: ..

^I am MTS, and so is Columbusgirl. I'm 21, but still at Ohio State.

 

 

I think what we need in Cleveland is a neighborhood full of "Buppies" and middle class blacks and other ethnicities in the city.

 

I could not agree with you more.

 

I'm thinking of ways to do this.

 

I guess a start would be to court yp's that are in town now, then the ones that do move back to Cleveland, to move into areas and start "upgrading" the neighborhoods. Then start a MUCH broader marketing campaign to market our city and new found buppie enclave to the world. The broader part goes along with marketing the city, but special emphasis should be held on the buppies and other yuppies.

 

What are other Ideas on this?

^I am MTS, and so is Columbusgirl. I'm 21, but still at Ohio State.

 

aiight...cool!!

What's a buppie?

Change the Y in YUPPIE to a B for Black :-D

Black Urban Professional.

 

Guppy would be Gay Urban Professional.

Then now do you change the perception that its a white city?

 

 

Are you are asking me (KTM) this question? If so, I'm not sure why. I live in Cleveland so I am well aware that blacks are the majority in Cleveland.

Then now do you change the perception that its a white city?

 

 

Are you are asking me (KTM) this question? If so, I'm not sure why. I live in Cleveland so I am well aware that blacks are the majority in Cleveland.

 

Yes!   Cleveland is perceived as a white unwelcoming to people of color, racial divided city.  How do, WE THE CITIZENS OF CLEVELAND, turn that negative into a positive?  How do WE break down those walls and perceptions?

I say first word of mouth. We haveso many Clevelanders that say things like "don't come back to Cleveland" and it seems to have worked at keeping people away, so lets heavily counter that.

 

Word of mouth will only take us so far.

 

Next in magazines like Vibe, Black enterprise etc. have ads and articles promoting Cleveland and Black Cleveland.

 

Then try some national televised ads and see how far that takes us.

 

We also have to show that there are blacks here that are successful and that there is opportunity here. We have these things, but need to market them, maybe through the channels I've discussed.

 

 

     WOW MyTwoSense... You may be the 1st person I ever heard of to look at Cleveland through those glasses. I think it is the exact opposite. Cleveland boasts the following: The African American Museum, The African Descent Foundation, Minority Contractors Assistance Program, Minority Training Centers (multiple), Minority Recruitment for the Cleveland Police, Minority Recruitment for Cleveland Fire, Black associations in both the Police and Fire Departments, Black on Black Crime, down payment assistance in certain neighborhoods, FREE $20,000 second mortgages in certain neighborhoods, renamed Liberty Blvd (honored thousands of WWII veterans) Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, give more points on civil service tests to residents than to anything else (i.e. military, college, etc.), require certain number of minorities to be given city contracts (i.e. costruction projects etc.), have more blacks on City Council than any other race, has a black mayor, created a Black Liaison Officer when there was a white mayor (Campbell), the Black Pages (so one can patronize black owned businesses). And this is only what I can think of. I'm sure if I looked into it, I would find alot more.

     I do agree that Cleveland is racially divided. How to fix that, I don't know. But unwelcoming to people of color? You've got to be kidding. Cleveland is unwelcoming to the middle class-- no matter what the race..

     

 

     

KTM he said percieved, not is. We should market all the things you've listed. and yes we need to make the city more attractive to the middle class.

     WOW MyTwoSense... You may be the 1st person I ever heard of to look at Cleveland through those glasses. I think it is the exact opposite. Cleveland boasts the following: The African American Museum, The African Descent Foundation, Minority Contractors Assistance Program, Minority Training Centers (multiple), Minority Recruitment for the Cleveland Police, Minority Recruitment for Cleveland Fire, Black associations in both the Police and Fire Departments, Black on Black Crime, down payment assistance in certain neighborhoods, FREE $20,000 second mortgages in certain neighborhoods, renamed Liberty Blvd ( honored of the thousands of WWII veterans) Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, give more points on civil service tests to residents than to anything else (i.e. military, college, etc.), require certain number of minorities to be given city contracts (i.e. costruction projects etc.), have more blacks on City Council than any other race, has a black mayor, created a Black Liaison Officer when there was a white mayor (Campbell), and these are just what I can think of. I'm sure if I looked into it, I would find alot more.

     I do agree that Cleveland is racially divided. How to fix that, I don't know. But unwelcoming to people of color? You've got to be kidding. Cleveland is unwelcoming to the middle class-- no matter what the race..

 

OK...I'm just gonna come out and say it.

 

We all know people process things differently and you, via this board, remind me of the guy Bruno from the FX show "black White"

 

You as a white man don't see racism in the same light I see it at a 40 y/o, black/latin, gay man.  and i will see it differntly than a person of Asian decent.

 

People of color have to live in a a white world everyday, many white people walk around with a "right to entitlement" while we have to pay the "black tax" just to be perceived as on equal ground.

     I will have to check out Bruno in "Black White" on FX. Never heard of the show nor the character. I'll tell you if you are right.

     I agree that we look at things from different perspectives. The "right of entitlement" and the "black tax",,, I don't agree. We CAN agree to disagree.

I'm suprised there hasn't been more discussion about Columbus' high ranking.  Is there really a drastic difference in "quality of life" for Black Americans between Cleveland and Columbus... which are only 140 miles apart?

Being black and living in both cities I'd say no. If any thing its probably becasue a larger percentage of blacks (middle class blacks) in the Columbus metro area live in Columbus as opposed to the suburbs and surrounding areas.

People of color have to live in a a white world everyday, many white people walk around with a "right to entitlement" while we have to pay the "black tax" just to be perceived as on equal ground.

 

We've seen the list of stores you claim to patronize.  I'm busting my ass just to get by, like all the other white folks I know.  I want some of this "right to entitlement" you claim we have!

 

I don't buy it, sorry.

There is no doubt that white males have privledges.  Look no further than police interactions, being able to speak freely without being afraid of being the spokesperson for your race/gender, the mug shots on the local news EVERY day, and even seemingly trivial things like bandage colors.

 

When's the last time you put a black bandage on your white skin?

Never, but the last bandage I wore was blue.  Andorean privilage, I suppose?

People of color have to live in a a white world everyday, many white people walk around with a "right to entitlement" while we have to pay the "black tax" just to be perceived as on equal ground.

 

We've seen the list of stores you claim to patronize.  I'm busting my ass just to get by, like all the other white folks I know.  I want some of this "right to entitlement" you claim we have!

 

I don't buy it, sorry.

 

We'll X, let me put it to you this way.

 

I'm sure as a child you're parents have never said to you, "you must be better, smarter, faster than you white piers, just to be perceived as equal" to them.

 

you've never been told, "you got to do the job you want, not the job you have" in order to get to the next level.

 

Have you ever sat in a class (elementary school) and wonder why you were the only "brown" face in the room?  In junior high or Senior high wonder why you were only one of a few "brown" faces in a class?

 

I'm sure you've never had a class mate say, "they live on South Park??  I bet they don't really live on South Park, his mom is probably the maid and they are just using that address to go to Shaker."  If I was white, that would never cross a person mind.

 

My first year at Ohio St, certain white people referred to the small group of friends I had as "booogie" or "uppity" n----as from Cleveland"  That term was used to describe almost all the black kids from cleve. hts., shaker hts., beachwood, Univ. Hts.  My cousins, brother and I were called "Mexican", "spic", "immigrants" because we were bilingual.  My best friend was called the "black chinaman" and he's black and Vietnamese.

 

I'm sure you have never had a utility worker come to you house for a service call and tell your mom, "oh just sign here, you can sign the lady of the houses name, I won't tell anyone you signed/forged her name.  Its OK, you wont get in trouble".  If we were white, he would have never "implied" that my mother was an employee of the house instead of "the lady of the house".

 

I worked my ass off at Shaker, Ohio St, SOHIO, Warner Music and Time Warner to get to the level I am at.  I have no children, so shopping and buying homes is my passion.  At my age, point in life & financial status, I can afford to do any damn thing I want.

 

I work to make any future Black, Latin and Gay employees coming up behind me the exposure they need to get to the top!  My boss is one of the few black CEOs in the world.  He was my mentor when I came to NYC...I'm going to do my best to pass it on.

 

I thank god my parents were determined, positive and progressive.  My parents always pushed us and exposed us to as much as possible growing up, my mother would often say, "you might not get it now, but you will later" I didn't get what my parents were trying to prepare me for, until I got to Ohio St.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, certainly it still does.  And I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't work for what you have, either.  I'm sure you did and deserve it. 

 

But racism doesn't equal "white privilege".  And just being different from the people around you doesn't equal "white privilege" for the majority. 

 

When you say "white privilege" you are implying that people are handing things to us because we're white, "ohh, he didn't make the qualifications, but hey, he's white, so he gets the job/student slot/apartment/award/etc".  While there certainly are privileged whites (look at the man in the Oval Office), the vast majority of us have to work like heck to get anything.  In fact, those first two examples of yours sound very much like what I was told if I want to be successful, obviously without the racial overtone- you've got to be better than those around you just to compete, and you've got to show enough initiative in what you're doing if you want to get to the next level.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, certainly it still does.  And I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't work for what you have, either.  I'm sure you did and deserve it. 

 

But racism doesn't equal "white privilege".  And just being different from the people around you doesn't equal "white privilege" for the majority. 

 

When you say "white privilege" you are implying that people are handing things to us because we're white, "ohh, he didn't make the qualifications, but hey, he's white, so he gets the job/student slot/apartment/award/etc".  While there certainly are privileged whites (look at the man in the Oval Office), the vast majority of us have to work like heck to get anything.  In fact, those first two examples of yours sound very much like what I was told if I want to be successful, obviously without the racial overtone- you've got to be better than those around you just to compete, and you've got to show enough initiative in what you're doing if you want to get to the next level.

 

 

"white right to entitlemant" is a very difficult thing for most white people to understand.  Its can be a subtle as walking into a store and having a sales person "ask you if you need help" or say "can I show you anything?"  the job qualification example you use, isn't what I'm talking about, but I've seen that happen as well.  However, I'm a firm believer that a person who is qualified and has a proven track record should get "x" regardless of sex, race, ethnicity or religion.

 

I'll give you some examples of things, or maybe someone else can, as they come up during the day.

"white right to entitlemant" is a very difficult thing for most white people to understand.  Its can be a subtle as walking into a store and having a sales person "ask you if you need help" or say "can I show you anything?"  the job qualification example you use, isn't what I'm talking about, but I've seen that happen as well.  However, I'm a firm believer that a person who is qualified and has a proven track record should get "x" regardless of sex, race, ethnicity or religion.

 

I'll give you some examples of things, or maybe someone else can, as they come up during the day.

 

Are you saying that sales people don't help minorities, or that they are harrassing minorities?

 

Anyway, I certainly agree with you that people should be judged based on their qualifications and not race, religion, etc.  But I've certainly seen it go the other way, with minorities given the preference in contracts, employment, and school admissions.

"Its can be a subtle as walking into a store and having a sales person "ask you if you need help" or say "can I show you anything?"

 

Here's an example of a "thing" called having a chip on your shoulder.

 

The above situation describes one of two things - a helpful salesperson doing their job, or a customer feeling like they're being profiled. It is conceivable, even possible that the former is the case. When I worked retail, it was standard operating procedure to address every customer - the purpose was twofold: make them aware that you're paying attention to them, and making them aware that you're paying attention to them.

 

"white right to entitlement" is a very difficult thing for most white people to understand.  Its can be a subtle as walking into a store and having a sales person "ask you if you need help" or say "can I show you anything?"  the job qualification example you use, isn't what I'm talking about, but I've seen that happen as well.  However, I'm a firm believer that a person who is qualified and has a proven track record should get "x" regardless of sex, race, ethnicity or religion.

 

I'll give you some examples of things, or maybe someone else can, as they come up during the day.

 

Are you saying that sales people don't help minorities, or that they are harassing minorities?

 

Anyway, I certainly agree with you that people should be judged based on their qualifications and not race, religion, etc.  But I've certainly seen it go the other way, with minorities given the preference in contracts, employment, and school admissions.

 

On occasion those types of situations are needed.  Womens groups, minorities, etc, on occasion need that exposure to build relationships.  if there is no prerequisite, then they never get an opportunity to try to grab a piece of the action.

 

However, this is drifting to scenarios of racism instead of dealing with the topic at hand.

 

"Its can be a subtle as walking into a store and having a sales person "ask you if you need help" or say "can I show you anything?"

 

Here's an example of a "thing" called having a chip on your shoulder.

 

The above situation describes one of two things - a helpful salesperson doing their job, or a customer feeling like they're being profiled. It is conceivable, even possible that the former is the case. When I worked retail, it was standard operating procedure to address every customer - the purpose was twofold: make them aware that you're paying attention to them, and making them aware that you're paying attention to them.

 

 

Thats a fairly common example, but one I believe this type of situation, some folks bring on themselves, for various reasons, outside of racial or financial profiling.  As you mention some folks have some BIG chips on their shoulders and think the world is out to get them.

One example I can think of in terms of white male privlege is that women still make 80 cents to every dollar an equally qualified man makes.  I don't know the specific numbers for race, but there are disparities there as well. 

 

X, I don't think anyone is saying that material possessions are given to whites upon being born.  That is obviously ludacris.  What I, and I think MTS means, is that there are certain things that white people either don't have to worry about, or are granted for no reason.

 

If you get in a fight do you have to worry about someone thinking "all white people are animalistic and hostile"?  In the workplace if you make a mistake do you have to worry that someone thinks you are unqualified and got your job soley because of your race?--- I'm guessing the answer is no.  Now, what did you do, other than be born with white skin, to deserve preferential treatment...this is white privlege.

 

One time my family was driving through Indiana and stopped at a rural gas station to get gas and go to the bathroom.  On the door there was a big sign that said "Service can be denied to anyone".  And for some reason I don't really think the "anyone" really means anyone.

 

 

X, I don't think anyone is saying that material possessions are given to whites upon being born.  That is obviously ludacris.  What I, and I think MTS means, is that there are certain things that white people either don't have to worry about, or are granted for no reason.

 

 

Oh my, someone is showing his or her age ;)

haha my bad...too much Moneymaker on the radio...

where the women make up that 80% is from the man paying for dinner and such...engagement rings, wedding rings and all the other "perks" ....anniversaries, valentine's day, sweetest day, etc.....im going to be hated for this post

One example I can think of in terms of white male privlege is that women still make 80 cents to every dollar an equally qualified man makes.  I don't know the specific numbers for race, but there are disparities there as well. 

 

X, I don't think anyone is saying that material possessions are given to whites upon being born.  That is obviously ludacris.  What I, and I think MTS means, is that there are certain things that white people either don't have to worry about, or are granted for no reason.

 

If you get in a fight do you have to worry about someone thinking "all white people are animalistic and hostile"?  In the workplace if you make a mistake do you have to worry that someone thinks you are unqualified and got your job soley because of your race?--- I'm guessing the answer is no.  Now, what did you do, other than be born with white skin, to deserve preferential treatment...this is white privlege.

 

Edale, thats a great example.

where the women make up that 80% is from the man paying for dinner and such...engagement rings, wedding rings and all the other "perks" ....anniversaries, valentine's day, sweetest day, etc.....im going to be hated for this post

 

We'll isn't that very 1969 of you.

 

 

Hold on.  Now we are responsible for how people FEEL they MIGHT be perceived for their actions, irregardless of any previous deeds on our part?  That Ludacris!  I still don't see preferential treatment of whites in that example.  I don't see a damned thing we could do about it, either.  As for your second example, you're really reading into things there.  Did they deny you service?  Threaten to?  Do anything at all but post a sign that says anyone but that you assume means you?

 

If the point you guys are getting at is that there are a myriad of small indiginities that black people have to put up with for being black, then yeah, I'll agree to that, though not to all of the examples you've listed here.  Certainly racism still exists, as I've already said.  But I still don't agree that white people are being given preferential treatment, and I'm not just talking about issuance of material goods at birth. But privilege is different than not having things to worry about.  Worries comes from within, privilege something bestowed upon you from without.  There's nothing we can do to take away your anxieties.