October 13, 200915 yr And i've heard talks of another one north of JESUS. That talk gets brought up a lot, but ODOT keeps flat-out saying NO to that one. I think the prospects of an interchange "north of JESUS" is tied to whether or not the area can develop an intermodal transportation center in the Middletow/Monore area. If that happens, then there will be pressure to add an airport link (Warren County airport is the targeted one) and that would trigger a lot of road upgrades.
October 13, 200915 yr I find it funny that they look at the success of Union Center(first new interchange in SW Ohio in 30 years) and think they can duplicated everywhere. Eg.... Liberty interchange and now the Austin Rd interchange. And i've heard talks of another one north of JESUS. Don't forget the one on Manchester Rd!!!! (I assume Garver Rd. was the JESUS exit you were referring to) Still, yeah, the Ham-Mason exit is utterly pointless, especially with the nice, moderately-used Cin-Day rd. exit right up the street. They would have been better off with massive road widenings at Cin-Day and Ham-Mason to better connect to Cox, but that would have (gasp!!) disturbed the beloved Wetherington, home to John Boehner (although I doubt that this idea is much of an improvement for all of the Wetherington-ites, which will have to hope and pray to God that exit users will only head toward the east)
October 14, 200915 yr ^ I'm sure ODOT consulted John Boehner before they made these decisions years ago, and designed the entire stretch of I-75 with a "do not disturb John Boehner" mentality.
October 17, 200915 yr 've heard talks of another one north of JESUS. This would be Oxford State Road. There've been proposals for this since the 1950s. I think Manchester Road is off the plans for now.
October 17, 200915 yr I find it funny that they look at the success of Union Center(first new interchange in SW Ohio in 30 years) and think they can duplicated everywhere. Eg.... Liberty interchange and now the Austin Rd interchange. Union Center is a direct model for Austin Road, though that interchange was being considered before Union Center was built. The Austin Road advocates have pretty much dropped their "traffic relief/redevelop the Mound site" rationale and tout this a mostly a "economic development ploy" (ie sprawl). Of the communities on along I-75 in "Daytonatti" Franklin isn't mentioned much but they have been quite sucessfull in land development and actually getting things built. The two Franklin interechanges have a lot of development underway.
October 18, 200915 yr The county really wants to develop all land along Cox rd. to be commercial/retail. And it want to extend cox rd further north to end right into the new outlet mall. On the way back from Cincy yesterday I made a point of exiting at the new interchange and made a loop around the area. I can see how they have Cox Road extended a bit and stubbed out to the north of the interchange. I can see how this could extend north, but that will probably be quite a while due to the land aquisition. "Liberty Way" is pretty impressive now, a big highway. Lots of development to the west of I-75 along Cin-Day Road, too. I guess, for the Warren County side, the northern sprawl frontier is now at Bethany and Princton Roads. Extending Cox would open up more of the land (in the vicinity of that megachruch visible from I-75).
October 19, 200915 yr I can see how this could extend north, but that will probably be quite a while due to the land aquisition. The extension of Cox road up to the new outlet mall at st rt 63 (Monroe) has been on the Warren County drawing boards for a few years now. The county planners showed and discussed it a couple of years ago at a meeting I attended, and I don't think it was new at that time. There is a definite effort by both Buttler and Warren counties to have 4-lane divided highways flanking I-75 all the way up to Montgomery county if they can. The widening/replacement of Union blvd between st rt 63 north thru the Middletown area and on to Franklin/Springboro is also in the works. The planners were really upset that a developer bought land along Union Rd just north of the new Middletown (Attrium) hospital and started building houses on it. This was contrary to what the county wanted with the land, but they had not codified their plan yet. As a reslut, the county raced ahead to attempt to secure all land along Union Rd so that they could control its development and make sure it goes commercial, not residential. I fought it in my area, as did others, but the county told us to get lost and they would do what they want in that area. I accused them of selling out the residents of the area who wanted to keep the road the way it is. They told me "yea, you can look at it that way... but your land will be worth a lot!" I told them I was far more interested in keeping my neighborhood nice and quiet and livable than I was in the money. The lead planner then shrugged his shoulders and said "then you will need to come up with a ton of money to buy up the land in the area ahead of us". This was at the same time they created the Warren County Port Authority with imminent domain rights on all the land in the county. This recession has definetly slowed down the drive to implement the plan. Just how much, remains to be seen.
February 5, 201015 yr If the MSAs are merged that would make it Cincinnati- 2,155,137 Dayton- 836,544 Cincinnati-Dayton-Middletown MSA- 2,991,681; which by my guess would be 19th or 20th largest
February 5, 201015 yr It is highly unlikely that Dayton's MSA would merge with Cincinnati's. They would just combine into a CSA, add Springfield (and maybe Greenville). It would be Cincinnati-Dayton-Springfield CSA at 3,132,158. That would put it ahead of Denver but below about 400,000ish from another twin city area, Minneapolis-St. Paul. That would make Cin-Day-Spring the 16th largest metropolitan area in the United States. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 5, 201015 yr Damn you Unusualfire, you beat me to this one! Weren't we just talking about this last week? Someone mentioned that commuting patterns weren't strong enough...I wonder if they are now. Can anyone who is more familiar with national planning explain how this would change our status?
February 5, 201015 yr Can anyone who is more familiar with national planning explain how this would change our status? Raising our ranking in terms of most populous metropolitan regions would help our stature when it comes to grant applications, economic development marketing and what not. In terms of planning efforts I don't see much change from this move unless the newly merged metropolitan region were to establish a newly combined MPO. Combining OKI Regional Council of Governments (Cincinnati) and the Miami Valley Regional Planning Commission (Dayton) would then put the combined region into a higher echelon of regions for federal transportation funding that is distributed to these MPOs to allocate locally as they see fit. I have not heard anything about this happening, and in fact, would find it highly unlikely due to the political nature of both MPOs.
February 5, 201015 yr Speaking of the Inland Empire. Out in california they have many communities that are planned for 100k+ residences. With the economy and all how most districts are struggling with school systems. Is it possible to make a city of 100k+ with no schools? Of course this would just be for singles, Empty nesters and retires. I mean it would have all the amenities except a school system. Of course people with kids could live there but send them to private schools.
February 5, 201015 yr ^I believe that every community has to fall within one school district or another. Bratenahl here in the Cleveland area is its own municipality surrounded by the lake to the north and the City on all other sides. It doesn't have a public school system and doesn't have much use for one considering the make-up of its population. Those who do have kids, send them to private schools. But... I do believe it falls within the City of Cleveland school district and the residents pay taxes to that district and can send their kids their if they choose.
February 5, 201015 yr Is it time to start a long discussion of new names for the region? :evil: I like "The Big Butter Promised Land" or "The Northern Kentucky Spread"
February 5, 201015 yr Is it possible to make a city of 100k+ with no schools? Of course this would just be for singles, Empty nesters and retires. I mean it would have all the amenities except a school system. Sounds like GOB Bluth's idea for Single City: "52% of the country is single. That's a market that's been dominated by apartment rentals..."
February 5, 201015 yr I don't think MVRPC and OKI would combine but they would definately speak with each other moreso than they otherwise would today. Just because two MSA's combining into a CSA does not mean they are now "one." Baltimore combined with Washington DC; Providence combined with Boston; hell, New Haven combined with New York. None of those three CSA examples are clearly "one metro area." MVRPC will still be around and so will OKI. But, I'm sure there will be some services that will potentially merge. Hopefully, Dayton's PBS merges OVER Cincinnati's so it'd be one kick-ass station. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 5, 201015 yr Every location has to fall within a school district, but school district fall under separate funding structures than the municipality(ies) where they exist. For example, Cincinnati Public School District has its own funding structure separate from the City of Cincinnati. CPS also covers areas outside the City of Cincinnati, and some other school districts cover small areas within the City of Cincinnati.
February 5, 201015 yr Is it time to start a long discussion of new names for the region? :evil: No. Answer: Cincinnati :evil: Colday will eat you alive.
February 5, 201015 yr I haven't wasted time with peasants in years. And I won't today :). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 5, 201015 yr Similar to the Twin Cities, Cin-Day should go by "The Odd Couple" or maybe "Thelma and Louise."
February 6, 201015 yr That Inland Empire has me thinking Arby's It has me thinking Hemet or Redlands. ^That's classic. heh..aint it! I 'd have to say "The Condfederacy" would be those exurban counties south of the NK Three, which are part of the Cincy MSA. ...and Dayton has Darke & Preble County for that Midwest rural-yet-part-of-MSA thang.
February 6, 201015 yr That Inland Empire has me thinking Arby's It has me thinking Hemet or Redlands. ^That's classic. heh..aint it! I 'd have to say "The Condfederacy" would be those exurban counties south of the NK Three, which are part of the Cincy MSA. ...and Dayton has Darke & Preble County for that Midwest rural-yet-part-of-MSA thang. No, trust me, I pushed that red bubble deep into Clermont County for a reason. Robert E Lee is buried under the Eastgate Mall parking lot.
February 6, 201015 yr I can see it now... The best might be Springfield's designation as "annoying high speed rail stop!" Very funny and right on. Speaking of, would Springfield be included in the Cin-Day MSA since Dayton-Springfield have been lumped together before?
February 6, 201015 yr Yes. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 7, 201015 yr That Inland Empire has me thinking Arby's It has me thinking Hemet or Redlands. ^That's classic. heh..aint it! I 'd have to say "The Condfederacy" would be those exurban counties south of the NK Three, which are part of the Cincy MSA. ...and Dayton has Darke & Preble County for that Midwest rural-yet-part-of-MSA thang. No, trust me, I pushed that red bubble deep into Clermont County for a reason. Robert E Lee is buried under the Eastgate Mall parking lot. Hahaha, BRAVO!! :clap:
February 7, 201015 yr I can see it now... Watch it, buddy. KY was a Union state! :-D Hey if I had the Union's largest inland city breathing down my neck I'd probably go Union too. I actually only learned recently that Kentucky initially remained neutral.
February 7, 201015 yr Yes, but it was a slave state, so for all intents and purposes, it was basically a confederate state.
February 7, 201015 yr Yes, but it was a slave state, so for all intents and purposes, it was basically a confederate state. Tell that to my Kentucky ancestors who fought for the Union (and had slaves). Let's not confuse the issue. Kentucky was for the Union.
February 7, 201015 yr I actually bought the Enquirer today to read that article, or set of articles. For something purporting to being about a bi-polar metro region the Cincy-centric POV came through on the I-75 sidebar, discussing the interchange improvments and road widenings and totally omitting the Austin Road interchange and related development...becuase I guess it wasn't in Bulter or Warren County. West Chester would be the geographic center of this new metro area, it seems. Im wondering if that should be the 3-C stop, not Sharonville, if its become the big new economic center. The 3-C route goes right through it. Thinking big on this a high speed rail line between Cicny airport, dwtwn Cincy, and Dayton would really complement this growth trend, especially if one could add more stops due to high operating speeds between stations.
February 8, 201015 yr Cinton? Daynati? We're one city now By Eric Bradley, Cincinnati Enquirer | February 7, 2010 A furious rush to the middle during the last two decades has transformed the land between Cincinnati and Dayton. Fleeing income taxes and the problems of established cities, and seeking the suburban dream, people and then businesses flocked to Butler and Warren counties, attracted as if by magnetic force to the expanses of available land around what has become the region's Main Street, Interstate 75. They came not just to places such as Mason and West Chester Township, but to Liberty Township and Deerfield Township, to Lebanon and Hamilton Township. Roads with names like Fields Ertel, named for early settlers of Warren County, shed its fields for development. Rural areas around Kings Mills, its name taken from 19th-century gunpowder magnates Joseph and Ahimaaz King, became tourist destinations as Kings Island merged into Mason and indoor waterpark-hotel Great Wolf Lodge was built. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/EDIT03/2070327 Connecting the dots: Cities gain when region grows By Eric Bradley, Cincinnati Enquirer | February 7, 2010 Cruising in a plane high above Interstate 75, Atrium Medical Center chief executive officer Douglas McNeil saw the future. He saw it written in asphalt at Union Centre Boulevard in West Chester Township as it connected to Interstate 75 and became an immediate destination. It was visible in Mason, a city of 11,452, which was in Deerfield Township in 1990. Today, it's an independent center of high-tech businesses, an admired force in the Cincinnati area with an estimated 29,682 residents. "A lot of people don't understand it today, but the combined population of Warren-Butler (counties) is larger than Montgomery County," said McNeil. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/EDIT03/2070328 I-75: The new Main Street Daily interstate traffic reflects great change By Eric Bradley, Cincinnati Enquirer | February 7, 2010 No other measure reflects the change north of Cincinnati and south of Dayton like the daily traffic counts taken by the Ohio Department of Transportation along Interstate 75 in the area. At the Hamilton-Butler County line, in 1990, daily traffic totaled 69,370 vehicles. In 2007, that number had spiked to 136,670. The daily count at Cincinnati-Dayton Road, once the first exit to West Chester Township, was 63,800 vehicles in 1990. It was 119,250 in 2007. West Chester's exit at Union Centre Boulevard did not even exist in 1990, but today has the second-highest daily traffic count between Cincinnati and Dayton, at 125,530. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/EDIT03/2070329 West Chester's the center of it all Heart of Cincinnati-Dayton metroplex links 3 million people By Eric Bradley, Cincinnati Enquirer | February 7, 2010 Internal West Chester Township memorandums label the township the "economic center of the Cincinnati-Dayton Metroplex." It's not just hubris. Home to 3,000 businesses, 50,000 employees and a residential population approaching or exceeding 60,000, West Chester Township is seen as the center of population if the Cincinnati-Middletown and Dayton Metropolitan Statistical Areas were fitted together today. Is it a surprise to be at the center of a storm that has swept across Butler and Warren counties to link 3 million people together? "No, not at all," said George Lang, West Chester Township trustee. "I know that our land that is now zoned residential is 92 percent developed." Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100207/EDIT03/2070330
February 8, 201015 yr As the lines blur between to the two MSAs, it will present an even greater opportunity for the downtowns to position themselves as something different and truly urban. They better get their game faces on if they want to whether the coming storm of DOWNTOWN WEST CHESTER. Why isn't Springfield included?
February 8, 201015 yr Why isn't Springfield included? Not sure, but they left a lot of places off the map. I don't understand the point of the yellow colored area. At first I thought it might have been incorporated areas, but it's obviously not as they include places like West Chester Township, but not Norwood or Springdale. And why are Liberty Township and Mason the same color on the map? And what's with Kettering, Hamilton and Deerfield Township all getting that darker color? A better map would have made all the incorporated areas (or urbanized areas) a different color than the rest, while only calling out communities with greater than 60,000 people.
February 8, 201015 yr Springfield has a separate MSA than Dayton. The Dayton-Springfield CSA is over a million. Much like if Dayton and Cincinnati merged, it'd be the Cincinnati-Dayton-Springfield CSA. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 8, 201015 yr HATE HATE HATE the headline "We're one city now" LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of commuter rail for this region.
February 8, 201015 yr I think we could look at the 3C project as our first "commuter rail." Of course the headways would be way too infrequent for true commuting, but if people started looking at the service this way, it could make it more palatable to have intermediate stops. Plus if you eventually threw another train on the line that just went back and forth between Dayton and Cincy, you'd instantly have almost enough headway to be true commuter service. Well, freight traffic permitting.
February 8, 201015 yr I-75 is so wide you could put rail down the middle of it the entire distance until after you pass GE in Evendale. I think with the upcoming widening of I-75 the lock split will require im sure taking up all the property inbetween Nb and SB in that stretch. There is ways. People just got to think behind the box.
February 9, 201015 yr from Aaron Renn's Urbanophile.com Wednesday, September 9th, 2009 Spheres of Influence ... For example, whatever the MSA populations might indicate, Cleveland is still economically the biggest city in Ohio. This would be true even if Dayton were added to the Cincinnati EA. (Curiously that it is not part of a Cincinnati-Dayton area today, but rather the southern anchor of a Dayton-Springfield-Greenville EA. Something primed for a change on the next revision, perhaps?) more: http://www.urbanophile.com/2009/09/09/spheres-of-influence/
February 9, 201015 yr ^ Renn likes those BEA EAs since they make Indy look good, since the Indianapolis' EA is huge, taking up most of central Indiana. I think the one for Dayton is suspect since it takes in Lima and counties north and west of it. I have a hard time seeing Bluffton and Van Wert county within Daytons' sphere of influence. And Lima sort of has its own thing going on. The numbers are interesting, though, since it the BEA gives stats on the farm economy for the EAs, For Dayton this is impressive though we don't think of it much....in the billions. Get Midwest with the Dayton Region. @@@@ BTW, the comments are a hoot at that Enquirer story. I liked this one: Who Dey? Cin-Day!
February 9, 201015 yr That Dayton-Springfield EA or whatever it is makes no sense. If Dayton and Cincy end up with a single MSA, I expect the BEA to simply eliminate it and give its counties to the surrounding area.
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