I've looked for a photo like this for awhile:

 

You can see how much of the urbanized area falls between the Miamis and how much of Montgomery county is undeveloped:

source: http://www.theamericansurveyor.com/PDF/TheAmericanSurveyor_FabricOfSurveyingOhio_December2004.pdf

 

Too bad there isn't anyone advocating for a transit system that links the cities along the Great Miami together via downtown hubs (Dayton - Miamisburg - Middletown - Hamilton).

 

As you can see from this google streetview of Beedles Station (Warren County's first settlement and perhaps the highest point in the "megalopolis") at the intersection of OH-741 and OH-63 by Otterbein retirement community, the land between Miamis is really a "highland" and that's where development is occurring.  The "Miami Valley" is a dull, dead expression because the "valley" is occupied by dull, dead, stagnating cities.  The real term should be something like the "Miami Highlands" or they should make up a new name entirely.  "C-D" would be easiest since its pun-like similarity to "seedy".

 

The dashed "boundary of drainage area" aka watershed runs along the "ridge" of the "highland" between the Miamis:

Really interesting stuff Scrabble!

The "Miami Valley" is a dull, dead expression because the "valley" is occupied by dull, dead, stagnating cities.

 

..which makes one wonder why you;d need a  transit system connecting these valley floor towns.  The need is more along I-75 since thats where things are relocating to and developing at.

 

  A transit system is kind of useless in a sprawl area. All of that I-75 stuff is automobile oriented development, with remnants of some pre-war towns scattered around.

The "Miami Valley" is a dull, dead expression because the "valley" is occupied by dull, dead, stagnating cities.

 

..which makes one wonder why you;d need a  transit system connecting these valley floor towns.  The need is more along I-75 since thats where things are relocating to and developing at.

twofold answer:

transit oriented redevelopment since they have some good bones anyway, both architecturally and proximity to 75

which brings me to 75:

75 is not and never will be "main street", so we should focus on the historic centers of populatin instead of sprawvilles in springboro with an expiration measured in years instead of decades/centuries

I-75 should have been routed through Fairfield-Hamilton-Middletown instead of the outskirts of them cities. There would have been no need to the Fox highway. Then again I-75 is so wide where it is now, you can run light rail down the middle between the beltways if they wanted too.

No light rail.  Something more high-tech and high speed, sort of like BART, maybe.  And use a Morgantown WVA type people-mover to connect the stations with the edge city development around the I-75 interchanges...you'd never walk those areas, but it would be cool to be suttled around them via a frequent, fast people-mover.

 

 

No light rail. Something more high-tech and high speed, sort of like BART, maybe. And use a Morgantown WVA type people-mover to connect the stations with the edge city development around the I-75 interchanges...you'd never walk those areas, but it would be cool to be suttled around them via a frequent, fast people-mover.

 

 

I can see it right now. People taking that thing would say. "This is amazing"

I still find it so interesting the story behind the surveying that happened in the Miami Valley and how the Symmes Purchase and the Land Between the Miamis is set to mag North and not true north.  I forget who pointed that out on UO but so cool to know why the kink is in there.

No light rail. Something more high-tech and high speed, sort of like BART, maybe. And use a Morgantown WVA type people-mover to connect the stations with the edge city development around the I-75 interchanges...you'd never walk those areas, but it would be cool to be suttled around them via a frequent, fast people-mover.

 

 

I can see it right now. People taking that thing would say. "This is amazing"

"This must be what it's like in America."

Jeff I'd wager that very soon low-floor light rail will be able to achieve speeds of 80mph.  The new light rail trains in Seattle and Charlotte are much, much nicer than the boxy type in Cleveland and Baltimore. 

 

The big problem is that the 4th mainline between Ivorydale and the Queensgate Yard would be required to be heavy rail or commuter rail but would miss the UC/Uptown area entirely.  I think for a Cin-Day service with frequent local stops you'd want to have it serve CU/Uptown directly and that would happen on the long-planned light rail route that would head southwest from Xavier University at least partly in a tunnel.  That would be light rail so whatever goes to Dayton would have to be that mode.   

 

I could see formation of a Hamilton - Butler - Montgomery County transit authority and a property or sales tax to build such a system passing *if* there were actually two lines -- a Cin-Dayton line and another line through Hamilton and Middletown.  There of course would have to be a major commitment from the state, and that could only happen if similar stuff was planned for Columbus and Cleveland-Akron, but I think it could all be bundled into a 3C's upgrade plan where the 3C's approaches would also be configured for commuter rail.   

 

What would be really forward thinking would be for a Cin-Day regional pseudo-government that had limited powers and could oversee any size urban growth boundary, a regional rail network, and other regional functions. Crafting a super-regional narrative would also be a good idea if the two are going to be lumped for the duration.

 

Is it be possible to put an issue on the ballot for a region instead of just one county or state-wide?

Here's a start:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana_Regional_Council_of_Governments

 

Now to involve Dayton...

Here's a start:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana_Regional_Council_of_Governments

 

Now to involve Dayton...

It might be easier to leave IN and KY out of it to begin with.

 

#####

 

 

Union Centre Interchange, West Chester, Ohio

Should their be an exit every mile on I-75 between the two?

If you leave NKY out of any attempt to better lead Cincinnati's future, you'll cut off your nose to spite your face. Indiana is less important, but the core urbanized area has included NKY since the region was founded.

No way. It's getting a 4 billion dollar bridge and has the airport for now.

OMG, Scrabble, that video makes me suicidal. (I've made it over half-way through, mostly with it playing in the background as I read UO.)

 

At least we get the CSA out of their efforts.

For all this self-congratulation, you'd think they built a railroad to Chattanooga or something. 

 

 

I-75 should have been routed through Fairfield-Hamilton-Middletown instead of the outskirts of them cities. There would have been no need to the Fox highway. Then again I-75 is so wide where it is now, you can run light rail down the middle between the beltways if they wanted too.

 

Hamilton was slow to embrace the value of 75, thus they missed the boat way back when.  It cost the city and county untold millions in development and investment, not to mention actually constructing the damn connector and all the people Butler County missed out on b/c of poor access to Hamilton.  Looks like we are facing such shortsightedness in this region as we speak based on Cincinnati City Council's stance on the Oasis line.

I've looked into it and think the whole "Hamilton didn't want I-75" thing is a myth.  I haven't found any evidence of it.  What is now I-75 was planned from the late 1920's (yes, I do have an article from 1929 on this) to use the Miami-Erie canal.  Hamilton's not on the canal.  That's pretty much the end of the story. 

I've looked into it and think the whole "Hamilton didn't want I-75" thing is a myth.  I haven't found any evidence of it.  What is now I-75 was planned from the late 1920's (yes, I do have an article from 1929 on this) to use the Miami-Erie canal.  Hamilton's not on the canal.  That's pretty much the end of the story. 

 

But the canal did run through Hamilton. 

Expanded development area comingto Austin Road interchange.

 

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-business-news/-38-9m-business-park-planned-next-to-austin-interchange-919480.html

 

A 10-building, $38.9 million office complex is proposed to be built in a business park owned by the city of Springboro, just south of the new Interstate 75 interchange at Austin Boulevard.

 

The development — which the developer says would be built over a 10-year period — is located outside the footprints of the current Austin Pike development district being established around the interchange.

 

I've looked into it and think the whole "Hamilton didn't want I-75" thing is a myth. I haven't found any evidence of it. What is now I-75 was planned from the late 1920's (yes, I do have an article from 1929 on this) to use the Miami-Erie canal. Hamilton's not on the canal. That's pretty much the end of the story.

 

But the canal did run through Hamilton.

 

Correct. This area where Route 4 expands with a wide median actually contained the M-E canal

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=hamilton+OH&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Hamilton,+Butler,+Ohio&gl=us&ei=jwORTIXWMISclgeJ-Y3mAQ&ved=0CCQQ8gEwAA&ll=39.369888,-84.547037&spn=0.003193,0.004528&t=h&z=18

 

More infill... Austin Road interchange expanding

 

....not unexpected, but here are the plans

 

http://www.western-star.com/news/lebanon-oh-news/springboro-school-taxes-forgiven-for-38-9m-complex--1014851.html

 

SPRINGBORO — City school officials look forward to the completion of a $38.9 million office campus in a special taxing district.

 

The developer of Synergy Austin in the city-owned business park — south of the Austin Boulevard exchange — will pay only 25 percent of property taxes on improvements during the next 10 years.

 

“Twenty-five percent of something is better than zero of nothing,” said school board member Scott Anderson, a former city councilman.

That's a creative use of the word 'infill'.

Everything is infill.  We are filling in the world.

That Austin Road situation sounds like the absolute worst kind of hyper-subsidized precarious edge development.  All these tax abatements to draw companies away from other areas while creating no net growth, and also no guarantees that the companies won't jump ship to the next greenfield once the abatements end.  It's really quite sickening. 

^ Well they could leave the region totally. Pick your poison.

what about this, the cincinnati post merges with the Dayton daily news and challenges the enquirer to be the first paper to serve the entire metro area.

Though papers seem to be going the way of the buggy whip, I'd like to think the DDN would try and challenge the Enquirer. Maybe it could be an online paper like the WSJ is for iPad (in addition to a cool, smaller paper edition).  Almost every major paper in the US has an abominable website. I can't help but think that a paper serving both markets would be a good thing, though I doubt it will happen without first a regional multimodal transit network.

2000 Cincinnati and Dayton urban areas.

 

 

 

2010  The Cincinnati/Middletown/Dayton urban area.

 

Hard to compare those maps other than that I can focus on certain areas and definitely say "yep, the 2000 map definitely doesn't capture the fact that that certain area is definitely urban now". 

 

Daytonnati is definitely a metroplex now.  3MM strong!  Why has nobody ever capitalized on combining the media market with a Cincy/Dayton news source?

The map I used was here. http://tigerweb.geo.census.gov/tigerweb/default.htm

 

To bring it to scale it wouldn't allow me to show roads unless I zoomed in closeer.

 

I don't venture outside of specifically urban Cincinnati threads but this thread seems to be missing the point of what I think is going on. Perhaps someone has said this already, I haven't read the entire thread but Cincinnati-Dayton will never be anything like Dallas-Ft. Worth or Minneapolis-St. Paul.

 

Minneapolis and St. Paul are only 10 miles apart. Their skylines are in view of each other. Dallas and Ft. Worth are 35 miles apart and share an airport directly between the two. Dayton and Cincinnati, however, are fifty miles apart separated by two rural, anti-urban counties. The airports for both cities are on the opposite sides of the city limits from the other (and in both cases actually outside the contiguous boundaries of the city). Finally, there is little reason for the two to merge in any meaningful way aside from the airport situation but that would entail dealing with either Butler or Warren county. In a lot of ways, the two metros are meeting in the middle - or as I choose to think - there is a nebulous 'third metro' growing between that is completely suburban and soul-sapping.

 

That is my contribution to this thread. Cincinnati and Dayton aren't growing together, but their ex-urban areas are. These people filling in the middle neither identify as Daytonians nor Cincinnatians.

Nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.

I seem to be meeting more and more people who are living in one and commuting to the other. However, it usually doesn't last long as the long commute in I-75 traffic wears them out. Of the last two who lived in Dayton and worked in Cincinnati, one quit his job and got a new job in Dayton, and the other sold her house in Dayton and moved to Cincinnati.

 

On a smaller scale, there is no longer any clear distinction between Cincinnati and Hamilton. They grew toward each other until all the space in the middle was filled, mostly with suburban development, and it's been that way for at least 30 years. We still think of Cincinnati and Hamilton as two different cities, though.

Thank you, unusualfire, for the visual CIN-DAY update, circa 2000-2010.  Needless to say, with the completion of the I-75 Austin Rd. interchange at Springboro and the subsequent huge developments there in 2011-2012, this corridor has taken on even more significance.  Posters who continue to denigrate the growing connection between Cincinnati and Dayton because it doesn't match the "models" of either Dallas-Ft. Worth or Minneapolis-St. Paul have, themselves, missed the point.  This is an emerging metroplex with its own unique attributes, challenges, and promises.  And, as your two contrasting maps demonstrate, what's transpiring between the two Ohio cities is all very real.

Thank you, unusualfire, for the visual CIN-DAY update, circa 2000-2010.  Needless to say, with the completion of the I-75 Austin Rd. interchange at Springboro and the subsequent huge developments there in 2011-2012, this corridor has taken on even more significance.

 

unusualfire, thank you for the map. One day, unfortunately, sprawl will fill all the missing gaps between the cities of Dayton and Cincinnati. subocincy's point is valid in that the developments along I-75 are significant (ie Austin Landing, et al) but not in a good way. Austin Landing is a symptom of Dayton's decline. Cincinnati, on the other hand, continues to grow its urban core. If the two cities will ever form a metroplex it will be Dayton's south suburbs and Cincinnati's north suburbs that direct its fate.

 

Posters who continue to denigrate the growing connection between Cincinnati and Dayton because it doesn't match the "models" of either Dallas-Ft. Worth or Minneapolis-St. Paul have, themselves, missed the point.  This is an emerging metroplex with its own unique attributes, challenges, and promises.  And, as your two contrasting maps demonstrate, what's transpiring between the two Ohio cities is all very real.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denigrating the growing connection at all. I'm just calling it as I see it. The two regions are becoming more connected because the 'gap' between them is forming its own distinct suburban identity. Few people in this exurban wasteland hold any meaningful allegiance to either city - save for the occasional sports game.

 

I think it'd be great if the two cities grew together and were a powerful metroplex. I just doubt it will happen because the gap between the two is its own distinct place and the identities of the two cities don't really matter in the middle.

 

Personally, I'd rather see two strong urban cores connected with adequate transit and a preserved rural between the two than the Generica we've been seeing thanks to suburban sprawl and its lax standards.

OTR the people living in between could have choose to live in Adams or Brown county. They didn't, because of I-75 and the proximity of the two metro's. Dallas Ft Worth was not always connected. They had to start some where. Seattle Tacoma were not always connected. They had to start somewhere. Minneapolis St Paul were not always connected but they had to start somewhere. Orlando Daytona does not look connected but the Census says they are.

 

Every region is different. Every situation is different. The point is a lot of people live in this region, more so than most everyone thinks. A combined Cincinnati and Dayton and eventually MSA will make the region more recognizable not to just this country, but to the world.

Just two quick points:

 

Thank you, unusualfire, for the visual CIN-DAY update, circa 2000-2010.  Needless to say, with the completion of the I-75 Austin Rd. interchange at Springboro and the subsequent huge developments there in 2011-2012, this corridor has taken on even more significance.

 

subocincy's point is valid in that the developments along I-75 are significant (ie Austin Landing, et al) but not in a good way. Austin Landing is a symptom of Dayton's decline. Cincinnati, on the other hand, continues to grow its urban core. If the two cities will ever form a metroplex it will be Dayton's south suburbs and Cincinnati's north suburbs that direct its fate.

 

While I agree Austin Landing is a hot mess, it isn't a symptom of Dayton's decline.  By the latest statistics, Dayton city AND metro actually grew (in actuality, probably stagnation).  By contrast, Cincinnati's urban core is declining, though the basin is certainly growing. Austin Landing is a symptom of America's desire for auto-centric businesses, not unlike Union Center or Florence Y'all.

 

The airports for both cities are on the opposite sides of the city limits from the other (and in both cases actually outside the contiguous boundaries of the city).

 

Dayton International Airport is technically within the city of Dayton, even though it isn't contiguous.  Though it's strange Kenton County operates CVG even though it's in Boone County. 

Kenton County controls CVG because Boone County had fewer than 5,000 residents and could not sell the bonds necessary to build CVG, when it was literally just dirt runways, back in 1935 or whenever.  Before the Army took over the air strip during WWII.  So if these clowns hadn't gotten together a few years before the war, the Army might never have improved the airport and set the stage for this infrastructure disaster. 

Thank you, unusualfire, for the visual CIN-DAY update, circa 2000-2010.  Needless to say, with the completion of the I-75 Austin Rd. interchange at Springboro and the subsequent huge developments there in 2011-2012, this corridor has taken on even more significance.

 

unusualfire, thank you for the map. One day, unfortunately, sprawl will fill all the missing gaps between the cities of Dayton and Cincinnati. subocincy's point is valid in that the developments along I-75 are significant (ie Austin Landing, et al) but not in a good way. Austin Landing is a symptom of Dayton's decline. Cincinnati, on the other hand, continues to grow its urban core. If the two cities will ever form a metroplex it will be Dayton's south suburbs and Cincinnati's north suburbs that direct its fate.

 

Posters who continue to denigrate the growing connection between Cincinnati and Dayton because it doesn't match the "models" of either Dallas-Ft. Worth or Minneapolis-St. Paul have, themselves, missed the point.  This is an emerging metroplex with its own unique attributes, challenges, and promises.  And, as your two contrasting maps demonstrate, what's transpiring between the two Ohio cities is all very real.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denigrating the growing connection at all. I'm just calling it as I see it. The two regions are becoming more connected because the 'gap' between them is forming its own distinct suburban identity. Few people in this exurban wasteland hold any meaningful allegiance to either city - save for the occasional sports game.

 

I think it'd be great if the two cities grew together and were a powerful metroplex. I just doubt it will happen because the gap between the two is its own distinct place and the identities of the two cities don't really matter in the middle.

 

Personally, I'd rather see two strong urban cores connected with adequate transit and a preserved rural between the two than the Generica we've been seeing thanks to suburban sprawl and its lax standards.

 

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Virtually everyone in these Daytonnati satellite communities identifies with one or both of the big planet cities in many meaningful - if not essential - ways. Almost all of the television and radio in this region emits from Cincinnati or Dayton, as do the two dominant newspapers. The large employment centers are in the two primary cities, as are three of the region's four most recognizable universities (UC, UD, XU). Throw in cultural institutions, entertainment venues, the Reds and Bengals (who most people in Dayton and Cincinnati follow), even the major nightlife areas are all in either Cincinnati or Dayton.

 

 

Maybe I should have prefaced my remarks with an admission - I am an urbanist and believe the urban cores of Cincinnati and Dayton matter more than the interstate sprawl between the two. Also, Butler and Warren counties do not seem anywhere near ready to work with Hamilton and Montgomery counties in tying the regions together into a metroplex. Personally, I'd like to see Ham and Mont work together more to improve commuter services such as improved transit (ie rail). Park and ride stations between the two cities would fill up guaranteed and people in the 'burbs would realize that trains aren't a communist plot.

 

 

Few people in this exurban wasteland hold any meaningful allegiance to either city - save for the occasional sports game.

 

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Virtually everyone in these Daytonnati satellite communities identifies with one or both of the big planet cities in many meaningful - if not essential - ways. Almost all of the television and radio in this region emits from Cincinnati or Dayton, as do the two dominant newspapers. The large employment centers are in the two primary cities, as are three of the region's four most recognizable universities (UC, UD, XU). Throw in cultural institutions, entertainment venues, the Reds and Bengals (who most people in Dayton and Cincinnati follow), even the major nightlife areas are all in either Cincinnati or Dayton.

 

Certainly, the media markets meet/mix in the middle and I acknowledged sports. And, again, there's no art museum or top notch performance center between Cincinnati and Dayton - but none of that changes the fact that these people that live in Springboro or West Chester remain basically anti-urban in their approach and hold little to no allegiance to either city.

 

I'm not denying the fact that the metros neighbor each other and are mixing together. One day, it will be a recognized metro area and that will be a good thing - I guess. From my perspective, this sprawl that enables the 'megalopolis' is not a good thing though it'll be fun to say the region has 3 million people.

 

While I agree Austin Landing is a hot mess, it isn't a symptom of Dayton's decline.  By the latest statistics, Dayton city AND metro actually grew (in actuality, probably stagnation).  By contrast, Cincinnati's urban core is declining, though the basin is certainly growing. Austin Landing is a symptom of America's desire for auto-centric businesses, not unlike Union Center or Florence Y'all.

 

Fair enough. I think those statistics are misleading. The city of Dayton's trajectory is stagnant at best. Some good things are happening there and maybe the numbers perked up a little bit recently after the bloodbath of the last few years. Cincinnati's statistics do not reflect what is happening right now in the city and what it portends for the future.

 

You're right about Austin Landing - but it also is a symptom of Montgomery County's ongoing push to sprawl itself in a desperate, self-defeating contest with cheap townships. There is no innovative urbanist thinking in Dayton or the county, save for perhaps the Greater Downtown Dayton Plan.

 

The airports for both cities are on the opposite sides of the city limits from the other (and in both cases actually outside the contiguous boundaries of the city).

 

Dayton International Airport is technically within the city of Dayton, even though it isn't contiguous.

 

Yeah, I've flown enough out of DIA to know it's 'in the city' but not part of the rest of it. That's why I said contiguous.

 

Kenton County controls CVG because Boone County had fewer than 5,000 residents and could not sell the bonds necessary to build CVG, when it was literally just dirt runways, back in 1935 or whenever.  Before the Army took over the air strip during WWII.  So if these clowns hadn't gotten together a few years before the war, the Army might never have improved the airport and set the stage for this infrastructure disaster. 

 

This is a bit of important regional history that few people understand. It is so refreshing to hear someone call CVG what it is - an infrastructure disaster.

OTR, I think you're a bit off on the mindset of the folks living in Butler and Warren counties.  I have a very close aunt who has lived in Hamilton for 30+ years.  She has spoken in the past of how folks in West Chester identify far more with Cincinnati than with Butler County; in her words, many of them are surprised to find out that they live in Butler County.  And working downtown with a lot of people who live in the 'burbs, I can say that they understand the importance of Cincinnati and want it to succeed.  There are many reasons that people live in Butler or Warren counties beyond simply an anti-urban bias.  I thin kwe'd be better serve to work with them to improve the entire region instead of viewing them as the enemy. 

Those 2011 population estimates are based on new methodology, where county level change is extrapolated to municipalities within counties.  Since HamCo shrank at a much smaller rate than Cincinnati from 2000-2010, I would not place too much faith in the 2011 estimates.

Maybe nothing much be added here, except to affirm the general agreement that the sprawl of residents in Cin-Day are overwhelmingly suburbanites/exburbanites who, nevertheless, stay closely attuned to the venues of both big cities.  As mentioned before, this is an entirely auto-centric culture who envisions no end to gasoline and who don't see any problem with driving 20-25 miles to work.  And they do travel everywhere within Cin-Day, but always return to the specific comforts  of their smaller communities.  I know this region well--since, from 1991-95 I lived in Middletown and from 1996-2011 in Franklin, and my feelings about this expanding sprawl is ambivalent.  Yes, this "Middle Earth" between the two anchor cities can be criticized because it is SPRAWL, but it can also be admired because it is MSA (and that counts).  Whether one labels Cin-Day a "megalopolis" (which it probably isn't) or a "metroplex" (which it is) makes little difference.  I call it Cin-Day; others prefer calling it Daytonnati--but, no matter what, right now it's a region of 3.2 million people who need to take themselves seriously as a thriving Midwestern economic powerhouse and cultural center.

 

For example, transportation.  The entire Cin-Day corridor, from Walton, Ky. to Tipp City, Oh., begs for more than the nightmarish I-75 (or, to a lesser extent, I-71).  Fast intercity rail is a must, as are LRT and BRT within the cities, etc.  And CVG?  A mitigated disaster!  Lunken Airport?  Forget it! (the hills are watching...)  On paper, at least, jmechlenborg's idea of constructing a regional airport in the vicinity of the Lebanon state prison makes sense (meanwhile, altogether doing away with CVG & DAY).  And linking this new regional air hub to its two anchor cities with something like Maglev, a la Shanghai (please don't laugh).  Big thinking needed all way around by a region of citizens who simply must realize that they compete with the entire world, not just with each other or with other Midwestern cities.

Fair enough. I think those statistics are misleading. The city of Dayton's trajectory is stagnant at best. Some good things are happening there and maybe the numbers perked up a little bit recently after the bloodbath of the last few years. Cincinnati's statistics do not reflect what is happening right now in the city and what it portends for the future.

 

While I agree my region is generally stagnant (as I said earlier) but stats DO reflect what's happening in any sort of city.  I think we can all agree that the basin and Uptown are doing fantastic work but one simply cannot look at that and say "Cincinnati's on its way to population increase!"  That's Chicago-syndrome, if anything (aka select about 30% of the city's neighborhood improvements [Chicago case: Northside and downtown] and discredit the 70% [in Chicago's case, 250,000 leaving the South and Westsides]).  The whole picture, from Westwood to Madisonville, needs to be looked at.  Improving the core neighborhoods is great but the core neighborhoods don't account for the majority of the city of Cincinnati.  Therefore, Cincinnati's statistical trajectory is pretty much on par with the rest of the major cities in Ohio [sans Columbus] including stagnant-but-Cincinnatians-love-to-throw-in-for-CSA-purposes Dayton.

 

You're right about Austin Landing - but it also is a symptom of Montgomery County's ongoing push to sprawl itself in a desperate, self-defeating contest with cheap townships. There is no innovative urbanist thinking in Dayton or the county, save for perhaps the Greater Downtown Dayton Plan.

 

That's a dangerous slippery slope.  That's like saying Hamilton County would love to sprawl and all Cincinnnati has going for it in "urbanist" thinking is 3CDC.

It's definitely not my idea to build an airport between the two cities and connect them by rail -- I have heard it elsewhere and have even heard the talk radio losers talk about it in the last year.  To make it happen SW Ohio business leaders will have to get together, get the state to create some sort of new regional agency with the authority to tax, and the state give the project $1-3 billion with regional funding to pick up the rest of whatever the tab is.  You would want this agency to build the airport and the rail line and manage both, so it would be like how BART owns land in various California cities. 

 

Also, I don't think that this airport would have to be very big at the beginning.  You would just want the state to own all the land and to master plan what land might be needed in the future. 

 

 

I can see that happening.  Call it Wright Bros. Airport or something ;).

Keep in mind that airplanes are just as much, if not more, a product of cheap oil as automobiles.  You can't fly a commercial airliner on electricity.  Bio-fuels maybe, but it will be extraordinarily expensive when the time comes.  I wouldn't be surprised if the large airports become white elephants, with the air traffic that survives being easily handled at facilities like Lunken. 

 

So I tend to think that airport discussions are rather moot.  Had CVG been built in Butler or Warren counties it probably would've been a good thing, but that ship has sailed.  A much more worthwhile public investment at this point would be better rail connections between Cincinnati and Dayton, for both freight and passengers.