I just thought that these types of stories come out enough that we can just post them here, and gather all of the ridiculous spending habits of ODOT in one thread...

Residents looking forward to quieter life

State installs sound walls along I-275

BY STEVE KEMME | [email protected]

March 11, 2007

 

CINCINNATI - The noise from Interstate 275 was so loud when Jim and Paula Bergman moved into their Montgomery home eight years ago they had to install sound-resistant windows.

 

Their neighbors on Capricorn Drive, Jay and Laurie Rom, are in the same situation. The Roms' and the Bergmans' backyards are within shouting distance of the interstate.

 

When standing in the backyard, the Roms sometimes have to strain to hear each other talk.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070311/NEWS01/703110366/1056/COL02

Well this averages out to be over $38,000 per house that will be affected by this project.  While officials say that it will reduce the noise levels by 6.2 decibels; this cannot be true for all 192 homes.  So only a fraction of those will see the greatest benefit of a 6.2 decibel noise level reduction.  But hey this is Montgomery, Indian Hill, and Symmes Township!!!  Why spend this money on transportation projects that will actually reduce congestion and/or pollution??!?!?

 

Oh and btw, I know that the Lower Price Hill community council is asking for similar sound walls to protect their neighborhood from the imposing US 50.  They will be tearing down the viaduct that goes over the neighborhood and put it all on ground level.  The idea is to eventually make US 50 from downtown out to Indiana and beyond an interstate at some point.  It is currently in the OKI projects list.  We'll see if those citizens get the same treatment as those in Indian Hill, Montgomery, and Symmes Twp.  US 50 literally blasts right next to the neighborhood.

Gee, who would have ever guessed that living next to a highway might be a little noisy. This just further proves what the Plain Dealer exposed. ODOT is heavily subsidizing developers whose houses are built right next to the highway in car-dependent areas. No preference of highways there. But then this is the "former" Ohio Department of Highways we're talking about.

I don't understand these new subdivisions going in next to freeways.  I would never buy a house where the backyard borders on an ODOT right-of-way for a freeway.  What are these people thinking?  Then they complain about the noise...

^ I was thinking the same thing.  It's a different story if the houses were already there when the build the freeway, but I275 has been there for a while. 

$6200 per decibel per house

Sound walls to rise along Hills & Dales

Thursday, March 8, 2007

By FELLICIA SMITH

REPOSITORY STAFF WRITER

 

 

JACKSON TWP. The picturesque look of Hills & Dales Road NW is about to change.

 

Instead of drivers seeing residential neighborhoods and landscaped backyards as they pass near Brunnerdale Avenue, they'll be greeted by sound walls.

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation has told the Stark County Engineer's office to build sound walls in two locations along Hills & Dales to shield residents from an expected noise increase when a 2.25-mile stretch is widened to four lanes in 2009.

 

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=9&ID=340701&r=17&subCategoryID=

No sounds of silence here

Great Wall of Akron going up at million a mile, but will it look pretty?

 

There's no such thing as a pretty sound wall.

 

Not when they cost more than a million dollars a mile.

 

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/columnists/bob_dyer/16660181.htm?source=rss&channel=ohio_bob_dyer

What a waste of money, but it may save ODOT in the long-run with legal battles. Some idiots complained about Interstate 264 in Louisville. It was formerly a four-lane divided highway that served a metro area of 1 million. It featured horribly outdated interchanges and was at level-of-service D and F pretty much during the daytime hours.

 

And when it was widened to eight to ten lanes, residents that lived next to it complained about the noise. The state won't add noise barriers unless the residents themselves pay for it, because the houses are _newer_ than the interstate itself. Good for the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet; you get what you pay for. You want to live next to an interstate? Expect noise, pollution and congestion. Want tranquility? Move elsewhere.

I live almost a mile from I-90 near West Boulevard. With the right atmospheric conditions and usually around 2:30 AM or sometime after I hear sirens, semi trucks applying their jake brakes, and motorcyclist doing those crazy things they do.

 

Do I qualify for a wall to block the ignorance oozing from the freeway?

Maybe ODOT will buy you a bubble for a house?

These stories underscore why we need to change the state constitution to allow gas tax dollars to be spent on non-highway transportation. We're spending big bucks on these sound walls, especially in middle- to upper-class areas, while low-income people can't reach jobs in those areas because we nickel and dime public transportation into irrelevance. I'd say that's worth a constitutional amendment. Some in the inner city who are directly affected might even think it's worth a revolution. But I hope they recognize a more peaceful option is to collect enough signatures to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot.

These stories underscore why we need to change the state constitution to allow gas tax dollars to be spent on non-highway transportation.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

'd say that's worth a constitutional amendment. Some in the inner city who are directly affected might even think it's worth a revolution. But I hope they recognize a more peaceful option is to collect enough signatures to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot.

 

Power to the people, baby.

 

This is a very logical place to start.

sound walls always irked me...I'm glad I'm paying for the benefit of a few houses. The widening of the highway increases noise excuse is used to justify the walls..come 'on is a 6 lane highway that much more noisy than a 4 lane ??? -- thats how they put the I-71 noise walls in thru Montgomery and Kenwood. If they wanted to build noise walls on I-71, they should have been put in Norwood.. One wall between Dana and Edwards would have benefited 10x the number of houses in south Norwood!

 

But, in defense of ODOT, I think most of the sound regs come from the feds and the NEPA act.  I would like to know more about the Kentucky (KyTC) Policy, Sherman; it would be a good suggestion for ODOT.

 

How about a wasteful spending thread for every state agency? It may pain y'all to hear it, but ODOT's one of the leaner Ohio state agencies out there (if that says much!)

I favor sound walls on the basis of free speech: they provide the most attractive and visible venue for surburban graffiti. Million dollars a mile! And people STILL complain that the gummint is not providing enough funding for the arts...

$1 million per mile?  Just for a soundwall?!?!!?  Puts the $3.78 million per mile for the Ohio Hub into perspective, doesn't it.

 

Mr. Sparkle: a thread for wasteful spending in other state agencies would be appropriate in the Politics forum here at UO.  This is the transportation forum, therefore just ODOT.  Could probably through the Turnpike Commission in to be fair, but they are pretty lean too. 

 

Kingfish:  LOL!

But, in defense of ODOT, I think most of the sound regs come from the feds and the NEPA act.  I would like to know more about the Kentucky (KyTC) Policy, Sherman; it would be a good suggestion for ODOT.

 

KYTC's policy is generally construct the soundwalls as-needed when a roadway is widened. There are exceptions. For instance, Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government is paying money to install sound walls on two small sections along Interstate 75 -- both at neighborhoods that are postdate after the completion of the interstate.

 

TDOT (Tennessee) has stated it has no incentive to install the barriers on existing roadways. City pays for it, that's fine. A HERO in my book.

Anti-noise plan good news for neighbors

Barrier project still years away, ODOT officials say

TIM DOULIN | [email protected]

March 15, 2007

 

MAP: Site Location

COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

COLUMBUS - Elizabeth Boyd’s home on E. 13 th Avenue in South Linden sits a couple of hundred feet from I-71.

 

For 10 years, she has listened to the annoying sound of freeway traffic. Downshifting tractor-trailer trucks "jake-braking" are the worst.

 

After the first two months, she could sleep through the night. Still, there are times she’d like to crack open a window, but she switches on the air conditioner because it is quieter.

 

http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2007/03/15/20070315-C2-00.html

So let me get this straight...there is a federal requirement for homes that came after the highway, but not for those homes that were there before the highway!??!  I must be missing something here...

ODOT plans $10.5M soundwall project

 

Thursday, March 22, 2007

 

By RANDY NAVAROLI

ThisWeek Staff Writer 

 

Clintonville residents along I-71 may get a break from the noise the interstate creates if a proposed $10.5-million soundwall project goes forward.

 

Ohio Department of Transportation officials presented the findings of a noise analysis study conducted along the highway in 2006 at a public meeting at the Ohio Expo Center March 14.

 

http://www.thisweeknews.com/?sec=clintonville&story=sites/thisweeknews/032207/Clintonville/News/032207-News-324356.html

Let's see.... $5-million a year over two years for soundwalls.

 

The same $10-million would more than pay for a detailed environmental impact study of the 3-C Corridor and probably one more corridor of the Ohio Hub System..... or.... a high-level (slightly less detailed) EIS of the entire Ohio Hub System.  Either way, it's put us closer to a way to take some of the traffic off of our interstates and (thus) reduce the need for soundwalls.

 

Soundwalls are just another way to isolate and cut off neighborhoods just as the Interstates did in urban areas to begin with.  Thumbs down.

:shoot: :x

The same $10.5 million might also likely permit an extension of Amtrak's daily Pennsylvanian from Pittsburgh to Cleveland via Youngstown, including construction of the Ravenna Connection, construction of modest stations at New Castle, Ravenna and southeast suburban Cleveland, restoration of the Youngstown station, and provision of a servicing track at Cleveland.

 

Or, it might also permit an extension of the Pennsylvanian to Cleveland via Alliance with added stations at Beaver Falls, Ravenna, and southeast suburban Cleveland AND at least one Empire Service train extended from Buffalo to Cleveland with added stations in Dunkirk, Ashtabula and Mentor, plus a passing siding or extra crossovers added on the latter routing, plus the servicing track at Cleveland to accommodate both new services.

does anyone know what the construction is on I-71 between/around w150 and w130?  lots of stakes on both sides of the road.

 

at first i thought drainage work, but it looks like they have cleared brush and are pouring footers for sound walls.  i didn't see anything about this on the ODOT site though...

It's soundwalls.  That's the prep work being done.

That area looks fairly uninhabited over there--lots of trees; not many houses. Guess that must changing soon. Good riddance trees!

 

On a related noted, how about those new flyover ramps going in at the I-270/I-71 interchange! The white-knuckle game of musical on-ramps will never be the same.

 

Let's see.... $5-million a year over two years for soundwalls.

 

The same $10-million would more than pay for a detailed environmental impact study of the 3-C Corridor and probably one more corridor of the Ohio Hub System..... or.... a high-level (slightly less detailed) EIS of the entire Ohio Hub System.  Either way, it's put us closer to a way to take some of the traffic off of our interstates and (thus) reduce the need for soundwalls.

 

Soundwalls are just another way to isolate and cut off neighborhoods just as the Interstates did in urban areas to begin with.  Thumbs down.

:shoot: :x

 

I wonder if they are going to put the soundwall between the RR and 71 or west of the railroad.

I can just imagine what the echo of the train noises bouncing off the wall through Clintonville is going to sound like.

The train noise already echoes through Clintonville, even several blocks away where I live.  But I doubt ODOT will put up a soundwall west of the railroad.  My guess is that they won't put up a soundwall at all to the west of I-71 between East North Broadway and Hudson, because the businesses along Silver Drive would probably object to being cut off from the view of passing traffic.... and potential customers.  Besides, that section of I-71 is down low in a below grade "cut", which acts as a natural sound barrier anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The train noise already echoes through Clintonville, even several blocks away where I live. 

 

As I recall quite well from my 18 months in Clintonville as well.

 

Sound walls should disappear; visually if not physically.  Those faux-red-brick walls are a marginal improvement over the previous "concrete-dog-shit specification" natural tone as presented by ODOT.

 

I imagine walls that have top sections that are a glossy light-blue tone that would be designed to pick up whatever is the color of the sky at the moment.  The top sections could be beveled and slanted back slightly so that those highest sections would reflect the sky from above the horizon.  Rather like the cap on the Key Tower. 

 

The lower sections would be progressively darker in color.  The color would be green (like Ohio) or some similar natural tone.  The masonry would have deep, sharp edged patterns cut in deep relief into the surface.  The pattern would be suggestive of vertical trunks and sloping branches.  Proportioned like a well tended landscaping tree.  The patterns would be cut in sharply so that natural shadows from the angled sun would look like the suggested tree branches.  When landscaping trees are planted in front of the walls, they would blend into one harmonious continuum.

 

In areas near Lake Erie, the north walls could be designed so that their top sections give an impression that one is looking out across the lake.  What do you think?

I like how they do it along the Maine Turnpike.... trees.

I like how they do it along the Maine Turnpike.... trees.

I vote for trees!  BTW, if I recall the Carolinas use some trees too.

 

And, might I ask, are the walls along I-90 heading into downtown from the east some of the first experimental "concrete dog-shit" variety as previously quoted?  Partner and I travel a lot -- no matter where we go EVERY single frickin' wall that we see ANYWHERE else is nicer than the one we look at daily!!!  I find myself actually hoping for some graffiti on the damn thing so that at least there will be some color and variety! :wink2:

See-through sound barriers improve views

More popping up along highways

BY THOMAS J. SHEERAN | ASSOCIATED PRESS

September 4, 2007

 

CLEVELAND - The church choir will have to sing loud to be heard through these soundproofing walls.

 

In a twist to the brooding look of sound walls that increasingly line highways, especially in densely populated areas, U.S. transportation planners are turning to another tool to make the freeway corridor more livable: see-through sound walls. The idea is common in Europe.

 

See-though sound walls will give the new home of St. Paul AME Church, located on the south side of Interstate 71 in a blue-collar Cleveland neighborhood, a window on the 90,000 vehicles passing daily.

 

I just saw those yesterday for the first time. I was perplexed. The walls, on the other hand, are the most attractive I ave seen anywhere. I was very surprised.

I like how they do it along the Maine Turnpike.... trees.

 

Vegetation actually does very little to absorb or deflect sound. It's a trick... if people can't see the source of a sound, they don't complain as much.

Don't move next to the interstate!     Ohio should have regulated all residential developers from building within a certain distance from the highway years ago. (Nothing could be done for existing neighborhoods that were there before the highway)

 

Waste of funds all around.     LOOKS HIDEOUS       Example  I-71 Cincinnati

                                        Good Example                       I-74 Cincinnati  Green Belt

^Well put...the stretch of I-74 through western Hamilton County is absolutely gorgeous.  Especially so from Colerain Ave to North Bend Rd.

Many have complimented the city, Green Twp, and Whitwater Twp for holding to that Green Belt so unnecessary spending will not be needed in the future.  Needs to be a standard thoughout the state though.

Many have complimented the city, Green Twp, and Whitwater Twp for holding to that Green Belt so unnecessary spending will not be needed in the future.   Needs to be a standard thoughout the state though.

 

Well...Green Twp. is sure as heck trying their hardest to screw it up.  They are building as close as anyone along that stretch (aside from that hideous senior living community just off of the North Bend Rd exit).  Give it time...Green Twp. will find a way to decimate the hills and natural beauty for another big-box, single-family subdivision, or suburban apartment complex.

The latest newsletter from the trustees puts that issue at the forefront for the Twp. buying up as much land as they can get their hands on near the highway.    I know the area near Rybolt and North Bend is far beyond gone, but there is a lot of green space still left from Mt Airy to the Rybolt area.

The latest newsletter from the trustees puts that issue at the forefront for the Twp. buying up as much land as they can get their hands on near the highway.  I know the area near Rybolt and North Bend is far beyond gone, but there is a lot of green space still left from Mt Airy to the Rybolt area.

 

Yes there is a lot of land, but I believe that is out of the control of Green Twp. Trustees (thankfully).  I don't think you have to go much farther past Rybolt Road to get out of Green Twp...I could be wrong though.  I'll double check later if someone else doesn't by then.

True, right where 74 meets 275 is the Colerain Twp line and I won't argue with you that they destroyed that particular section awesome looking hills.   

 

I find myself mixed when it comes to this area because even though most of it is crap that they are building, it is development in HAMILTON CTY.   

 

We need all we can get!!!!   

 

And unfortunately the hills are all that hasn't been developed yet.

Kind of a Catch 22, Double edged sword if you will!!!!!!!!?????????

True, right where 74 meets 275 is the Colerain Twp line and I won't argue with you that they destroyed that particular section awesome looking hills.   

 

I find myself mixed when it comes to this area because even though most of it is crap that they are building, it is development in HAMILTON CTY.   

 

We need all we can get!!!!   

 

And unfortunately the hills are all that hasn't been developed yet.

Kind of a Catch 22, Double edged sword if you will!!!!!!!!?????????

 

I couldn't agree more...and find myself debating the same thing at times.  I guess if the sprawl junk is going to happen...I'd rather it be in HamCo than in Butler/Warren/Clermont/Nky.

 

Oh and there are plenty of farms in western HamCo that are flat and have yet to be crapped on yet.  Only a matter of time.

Trees as sound barrier present a two-fold benefit: they clean as they protect. Especially the coniferous variety. Anybody know what the per-mile tree v. wall price comparison might be?

google search first result says 3.7 million a mile.  trees run about $100 each, so you can get about 37000 trees for the same price.  that would allow you to put a tree every 3.4 inches on both sides.  you would probably want to spread them out a little bit more.

Stagger them and you've got one heckuva sound barrier. And holiday light display.

Trees are great, but a stand of trees 100 feet deep will only provide a 3-5db noise reduction, which is barely more than clear land.

what is the standard noise reduction of sound walls?

 

Well according to MO DOT, the answer is  A sound wall can reduce noise levels from five to 10 decibels.

 

Oh and there are plenty of farms in western HamCo that are flat and have yet to be crapped on yet.  Only a matter of time.

 

Don't worry, the new infrastructure thanks to Fort Scott will likely be used to fuel new developments in Crosby Township. Once these new developments occur it will be wild to see the change in voting habits in the area... suddenly Crosby Township will have a suburbanite populous trying to push their agenda. But I digress.

 

I-74 had some big advantages to the other expressways when it was built in terms of keeping aesthetics. It was originally mostly undeveloped, and they routed a large portion of the route through the Taylor Creek Valley. It's really hard to develop on hills, and that is why other places developed first. Unfortunately, advancements in technology allow for developments to be placed pretty much anywhere nowadays, though I find myself surprised by some of the places that residential developments are going in Green / Colerain Townships. Too bad the existing roadway infrastructure can't handle the growth, and these developments have created a lot of safety deficiencies on what were 10 years ago primarily rural roads.

Oh and there are plenty of farms in western HamCo that are flat and have yet to be crapped on yet.  Only a matter of time.

True!

 

Not that I don't ever think they will develop west of the Great Miami, but one major factor with 74 staying as rural as it is has would have to be the lack of sewers and water.    All the growth on Harrison Ave near the 74-275 interchange would have been much more difficult 10-15 years back.