So are both Kroger and the Walgreen's going to have Drive-Thru pharmacies?  We see now why Walgreen's wanted to buy and tear down St. George ten years ago -- they could have gotten completely out of this mess. 

If that site plan is accurate the site will change from 2 drive-entrances to 4 (5 if you include the service area).  I doubt that the City will approve that.

The one on the south side of the site is only an entrance, so it shouldn't really affect traffic much. I doubt they will put up a fight. It's better to have that entrance than not. And with the new entrance at Vine Street, it's going into a preexisting intersection. If anything this should improve traffic, IMO.

The one on the south side of the site is only an entrance, so it shouldn't really affect traffic much. I doubt they will put up a fight. It's better to have that entrance than not. And with the new entrance at Vine Street, it's going into a preexisting intersection. If anything this should improve traffic, IMO.

I hope they keep the Corry/Vine intersection as a stop sign. There's no need for a traffic light there.

Does anybody know what the doorway on the Southeast corner will lead to? Currently, most transit users get off at Euclid and Taft and walk down the steps. If we could walk into and out of that doorway, this store will be a huge improvement over the current situation.

Does anybody know what the doorway on the Southeast corner will lead to? Currently, most transit users get off at Euclid and Taft and walk down the steps. If we could walk into and out of that doorway, this store will be a huge improvement over the current situation.

 

A lot of times urban retailers install two sets of doors -- one for people parking in the garage/lot and another for pedestrians -- but over time the managements decides it's easier to reduce it down to one entrance, so they lock the pedestrian entrance.  I walked past this development in Atlanta last year and they had put signs saying "please use parking garage entrance" on the street-facing pedestrian entrance. ::eyeroll::

I second the need for a Corry St entrance. The building needs to address Corry St. in some manner because it will be the focal point of all of Short Vine. The Harpers Point  Kroger location, in a strip mall, has a side entrance leading to the bistro area where you can get a good inexpensive lunch. There is even outdoor seating around this entrance.

My concept for Cinculators, or 10 minute frequency all day bus service for 10 neighborhoods covering all of Uptown, would create a Transit Center and connect to the Cincinnati Streetcar in this location. It would add a lot of pedestrian activity to this auto oriented development: http://bit.ly/1L8RCnp

I second the need for a Corry St entrance. The building needs to address Corry St. in some manner because it will be the focal point of all of Short Vine. The Harpers Point  Kroger location, in a strip mall, has a side entrance leading to the bistro area where you can get a good inexpensive lunch. There is even outdoor seating around this entrance.

 

I honestly don't think it needs an entrance on Corry. The front of the store will align with the east street wall, so the vista won't be terminated by Kroger anymore.

Oh I didn't understand that's how it was. So you are saying the section with two story windows shown on the north elevation, will be an extension of the east side of short vine?

Does anybody know what the doorway on the Southeast corner will lead to? Currently, most transit users get off at Euclid and Taft and walk down the steps. If we could walk into and out of that doorway, this store will be a huge improvement over the current situation.

 

A lot of times urban retailers install two sets of doors -- one for people parking in the garage/lot and another for pedestrians -- but over time the managements decides it's easier to reduce it down to one entrance, so they lock the pedestrian entrance.  I walked past this development in Atlanta last year and they had put signs saying "please use parking garage entrance" on the street-facing pedestrian entrance. ::eyeroll::

 

The existing Walgreen's had two sets of doors.  I don't recall the set that opened into the plaza's "Breezeway" ever being open. 

 

 

Does anybody know what the doorway on the Southeast corner will lead to? Currently, most transit users get off at Euclid and Taft and walk down the steps. If we could walk into and out of that doorway, this store will be a huge improvement over the current situation.

 

A lot of times urban retailers install two sets of doors -- one for people parking in the garage/lot and another for pedestrians -- but over time the managements decides it's easier to reduce it down to one entrance, so they lock the pedestrian entrance.  I walked past this development in Atlanta last year and they had put signs saying "please use parking garage entrance" on the street-facing pedestrian entrance. ::eyeroll::

 

The existing Walgreen's had two sets of doors.  I don't recall the set that opened into the plaza's "Breezeway" ever being open. 

 

 

 

The Kroger actually has a set of doors that open up to the breezeway, too. I think they are covered up with fixtures and merchandise now. If you stand in the checkout lanes and look forward, the doors are there behind the seasonal merchandise.

 

If they do have multiple sets of doors, they would have to have multiple security guards on staff at any given time.

The second set of doors on the new Kroger might be for the liquor store. Up here Kroger has been paying big bucks for liquor licenses (Giant Eagle too). The SNK has a separate entrance for liquor only and the 5XNW Kroger just bought out the license of a smaller supermarket in Upper Arlington.

 

Staggerlee's might not be long for this Earth.

Oh I didn't understand that's how it was. So you are saying the section with two story windows shown on the north elevation, will be an extension of the east side of short vine?

 

If I'm reading everything correctly, that's the way it is designed. You'll be able to drive from Short Vine directly into the parking lot and the front of the store will be on your left. The eastern sidewalk will continue across Corry along the front of the store. The two story glass facade will line up with the street wall on the east side of the street.

Will the new Kroger's be 24-hours?  The existing one was 24-hours up until about 2012. 

 

 

 

 

Staggerlee's might not be long for this Earth.

 

It's always a scene in that place.  I had a manager who drank a liter of Jose Cuervo Silver every night after work.  I waited in that line with a bottle of that stuff in my hand at least 100 times.  The guys always gave me a funny look because I don't have the red skin and intense gaze of a raging alcoholic.  And in fact I've never even tried Jose Cuervo Silver. 

 

 

I had a class with one of the employees there and we'd swap notes out back in the parking lot. My roommate would look out the window of our place, see us moving a bunch of paper around, laying it out on the hoods of cars and whatnot then ask what the hell I was up to when I got back upstairs.

Oh I didn't understand that's how it was. So you are saying the section with two story windows shown on the north elevation, will be an extension of the east side of short vine?

 

If I'm reading everything correctly, that's the way it is designed. You'll be able to drive from Short Vine directly into the parking lot and the front of the store will be on your left. The eastern sidewalk will continue across Corry along the front of the store. The two story glass facade will line up with the street wall on the east side of the street.

Thanks - then I agree with you, it doesn't really need a front entrance to the north. That's much better than I had been expecting.

Along Jefferson, they have excavated roughly 10 feet below the sidewalk/street level. The old site had the parking all at the same grade as the street along Jefferson and Corry... so I'm not sure why they went to all that hassle to excavate away that earth.

 

Here is the new driveway from Taft:

That photo isn't showing for me

Along Jefferson, they have excavated roughly 10 feet below the sidewalk/street level. The old site had the parking all at the same grade as the street along Jefferson and Corry... so I'm not sure why they went to all that hassle to excavate away that earth.

 

Here is the new driveway from Taft:

 

I can't see the photo :(

Here's the photo, attached

at least they got rid of a continous right turn up there

Here's what another midwestern city is getting next to its University:

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/blog/real_estate/2015/09/fresh-thyme-will-join-15-story-development-near-u.html

 

 

I don't understand why the need for so much parking?

 

Yes, I understand everyone drives cars, but why not instead build a parking garage on top of the kroger? It just seems that Kroger is so suburban mind setted, that the concept of an urban grocery store is completely lost to them. I truly think they are doing there best, but truly just have no clue how to make an urban grocery store because most of there business takes place in various suburbs across america rather than within the core of urban cities.

 

In an urban enviorment shouldn't you maximize as much space as possible? Are there any chances these plans get rejected in favor a site plan that reduces the parking, or favors it for above ground on top of the store, ala oakley?

 

I mean hell, looking at the site plan, they could easily add a Kroger Fuel station to maximize that space even more.

Here's what another midwestern city is getting next to its University:

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/blog/real_estate/2015/09/fresh-thyme-will-join-15-story-development-near-u.html

 

One word: transit.

When you hire CR for anything, literally anything, expect the output to be absolute garbage. The fact that they exist makes me cringe for architecture. Their "work" is insulting to my profession. If they're involved never get your hopes up.

I don't understand why the need for so much parking?

 

 

I think they're doing this as cheaply as possible because they can lower the cost of a future redevelopment.  So in 20 years it will be much easier to bulldoze this site with just two tenants rather than a 20-tenant mixed-use development like the South Campus Gateway in Columbus. 

I don't understand why the need for so much parking?

 

 

It's a suburban big-box grocery store with some urban elements. It's not an urban grocery store at all, though a higher percentage of the customers will walk to the store compared to their other suburban big box stores.

 

I like it. It's a big improvement on what was there before. Some years ago, I drew a site plan for this site just for fun, and my plan was very similar to the one above.

What elements of this plan are urban at all? I struggle to see any. If you put this site plan in Liberty Township, no one would think anything different. It's definitely better than what was there before, but that's such a low bar to set. Nothing like the old site plan should ever be built anywhere ever again.

Anecdotally, I'd say half the people who leave this store walk, go to the bus stop (improved access in this new site plan), or take a cab (I don't see any accommodation for this). The current lot was never more than about 80% full, even on busy shopping days. However, the size of the store is almost doubling, and both zoning regulation and Kroger's standards likely call for the amount of parking that is proposed.

 

As a rule of thumb, structured parking costs 3-4 times the cost of surface parking. There has to be a compelling reason to build it - surprisingly this is often the time it takes shoppers to find a spot and/or walk from a lot to a store, rather than land value. The developer here probably sees no reason to sell any land, and no reason to build multi level residential or commercial space (though I'm not sure why? maybe they expect the land value to continue to increase and be sold in 10-20 years as Jake suggested).

Isn't the stand alone Walgreens the offending structure here? The Kroger is tucked into the east side of the site with its entrance lining up with Short Vine. You could build a parking structure fronting Taft Rd. and develop the parking lot with  multi use structures facing  Jefferson and Corry St. if that Walgreens with a drive thru wasn't planned for right there.

Anecdotally, I'd say half the people who leave this store walk, go to the bus stop (improved access in this new site plan), or take a cab (I don't see any accommodation for this). The current lot was never more than about 80% full, even on busy shopping days. However, the size of the store is almost doubling, and both zoning regulation and Kroger's standards likely call for the amount of parking that is proposed.

 

As a rule of thumb, structured parking costs 3-4 times the cost of surface parking. There has to be a compelling reason to build it - surprisingly this is often the time it takes shoppers to find a spot and/or walk from a lot to a store, rather than land value. The developer here probably sees no reason to sell any land, and no reason to build multi level residential or commercial space (though I'm not sure why? maybe they expect the land value to continue to increase and be sold in 10-20 years as Jake suggested).

 

I'm not really upset about what's being built at all.  I think it's ridiculous for us to assume that the area would have suddenly become something other than what it is the instant some sort of urbanist dream development were put in place.  The fact is the character of the whole area hasn't changed much at all in my lifetime.  I don't think people walk any more on McMillan and Calhoun now than they did 15 years ago when the strip was ruled by fast food drive-thru's.  A "walkable" University Plaza wasn't going to change that. We live in a town where a lot of UC students who live on Warner drive to school. 

 

I don't think people realize just how much more densely built places like Boston and of course New York City are than the neighborhoods surrounding UC. It's denser than just about anywhere in the South, but still nothing like the population density of Cambridge, Sommerville, etc.  People in those places regularly walk the distance between two neighborhoods like Walnut Hills and UC and walk 8-10 blocks to get to a subway station. 

 

Anecdotally, I'd say half the people who leave this store walk, go to the bus stop (improved access in this new site plan), or take a cab (I don't see any accommodation for this). The current lot was never more than about 80% full, even on busy shopping days. However, the size of the store is almost doubling, and both zoning regulation and Kroger's standards likely call for the amount of parking that is proposed.

 

As a rule of thumb, structured parking costs 3-4 times the cost of surface parking. There has to be a compelling reason to build it - surprisingly this is often the time it takes shoppers to find a spot and/or walk from a lot to a store, rather than land value. The developer here probably sees no reason to sell any land, and no reason to build multi level residential or commercial space (though I'm not sure why? maybe they expect the land value to continue to increase and be sold in 10-20 years as Jake suggested).

 

I'm not really upset about what's being built at all.  I think it's ridiculous for us to assume that the area would have suddenly become something other than what it is the instant some sort of urbanist dream development were put in place.  The fact is the character of the whole area hasn't changed much at all in my lifetime.  I don't think people walk any more on McMillan and Calhoun now than they did 15 years ago when the strip was ruled by fast food drive-thru's.  A "walkable" University Plaza wasn't going to change that. We live in a town where a lot of UC students who live on Warner drive to school. 

 

I don't think people realize just how much more densely built places like Boston and of course New York City are than the neighborhoods surrounding UC. It's denser than just about anywhere in the South, but still nothing like the population density of Cambridge, Sommerville, etc.  People in those places regularly walk the distance between two neighborhoods like Walnut Hills and UC and walk 8-10 blocks to get to a subway station.

 

I agree.

 

That said, the concept of surface parking is just ridiculous in my opinion.

 

Yes people drive more than they walk. Yes it's the 21st century, and nearly everyone needs a car to get around (at least in mid sized cities). That said, you can only build SO much parking. What happens in the next 50-100 years? When population continues to increase and increase and increase.

 

Eventually there will be a tipping point to how much parking you can offer, compared to how much of the populace drives cars.

 

I just don't understand in general, even from a suburban stand point with places like Walmart, and such, how they will function in the next 100-200 years when it comes to parking spaces for consumers. You will get to the point where population will continue to increase, and there will be a time, when you literally will have simply not enough parking because of how much of the population drives cars. Yes not now. But one day we will get there. Maybe in our great grandchildren life times, who knows.

 

BUT, when it gets to that point, that point where there is just to MANY people on the road with cars, what the hell do you do?

 

Yes, I know we would need to make public transport more viable. Ideally a streetcar line, if not a light rail system that links all the suburbs together. That said, alot of the current suburb neighborhoods with business plazas are hardly walkable. They were clearly designed for cars firsthand, and people last.

 

But the general concept of cars irks me. You WILL get to a point, who knows how long in the future (and yes it probably doesn't apply for our generation, but still it's something that will eventually occur) where there will simply be to many drivers on the road, and getting from point A to point B will be constant rush hour traffic no matter what time of the day. It just seems to me, that the concept of a car, the concept of a surface parking lot, will be a very archaic concept in the future. It's just not something that is sustainable long term, especially if population will continue to grow.

 

It just seems like the whole concept in general of the suburbs, and the suburb layout of surface parking, surface parking, and more surface parking, is a system that will eventually collapse on itself. And when that point comes, what becomes of our suburb areas? You can't exactly make places those places a dense walkable urban neighborhood can you? Also, think of how many of these areas experience early onset of build-out because of how much real estate is dedicated solely to surface lots. Surely this can't be good for future economical growth in real estate in certain suburbs.

 

 

I'm sorry for the somewhat off topic rant. But surface parking lots, and cars, those 2 things just seem like something that can't coexist when population continues to grow over the future. It's just impossible.

 

Anecdotally, I'd say half the people who leave this store walk, go to the bus stop (improved access in this new site plan), or take a cab (I don't see any accommodation for this). The current lot was never more than about 80% full, even on busy shopping days. However, the size of the store is almost doubling, and both zoning regulation and Kroger's standards likely call for the amount of parking that is proposed.

 

As a rule of thumb, structured parking costs 3-4 times the cost of surface parking. There has to be a compelling reason to build it - surprisingly this is often the time it takes shoppers to find a spot and/or walk from a lot to a store, rather than land value. The developer here probably sees no reason to sell any land, and no reason to build multi level residential or commercial space (though I'm not sure why? maybe they expect the land value to continue to increase and be sold in 10-20 years as Jake suggested).

 

I'm not really upset about what's being built at all.  I think it's ridiculous for us to assume that the area would have suddenly become something other than what it is the instant some sort of urbanist dream development were put in place.  The fact is the character of the whole area hasn't changed much at all in my lifetime.  I don't think people walk any more on McMillan and Calhoun now than they did 15 years ago when the strip was ruled by fast food drive-thru's.  A "walkable" University Plaza wasn't going to change that. We live in a town where a lot of UC students who live on Warner drive to school. 

 

I don't think people realize just how much more densely built places like Boston and of course New York City are than the neighborhoods surrounding UC. It's denser than just about anywhere in the South, but still nothing like the population density of Cambridge, Sommerville, etc.  People in those places regularly walk the distance between two neighborhoods like Walnut Hills and UC and walk 8-10 blocks to get to a subway station. 

 

 

Reminds me of the last time I was in town checking out Braxton Brewery and I asked where an ATM was, they said, oh you have to walk a few blocks to get to it.  To which I replied, I live in Chicago, I can handle walking a few blocks lol ;)

 

Changing walking culture in Cincinnati is a good first step towards improving the transit situation - parts of town are really walkable and everything is pretty close together, the issue without a better transit system is connecting those areas where this is the case.

 

I don't think people realize just how much more densely built places like Boston and of course New York City are than the neighborhoods surrounding UC. It's denser than just about anywhere in the South, but still nothing like the population density of Cambridge, Sommerville, etc.  People in those places regularly walk the distance between two neighborhoods like Walnut Hills and UC and walk 8-10 blocks to get to a subway station.

 

Fun anecdote to go off the idea that people walk everywhere in NYC...

My girlfriend, who lives in Brooklyn, was in town this past weekend. I live without a car in over the rhine. We went to my parents' place in the near burbs (took the bus and then got picked up), and after hearing that we had walked from the Taft museum to Mt Adams to eden park the day before, my mom asked my girlfriend how she enjoyed all the walking and "getting around without a car." Now to be fair, it was incredibly hot Labor day weekend, so the heat was definitely a drag on the experience, but I was quick to point out that being in NYC, Jill walks everywhere herself. To which my mom replied, oh but they can take the subway everywhere, and only walk the last couple blocks. Girlfriend agreed.

 

Now, my parents love to walk. They go to New York and walk everywhere; my Dad once described a walk that seemed to cover a third of Manhattan. Literally they don't use the subway (they do take cabs). So I'm not sure if the mindset for Cincinnati is that one doesn't walk here, or what. The disconnect is real.

 

I don't think people realize just how much more densely built places like Boston and of course New York City are than the neighborhoods surrounding UC. It's denser than just about anywhere in the South, but still nothing like the population density of Cambridge, Sommerville, etc.  People in those places regularly walk the distance between two neighborhoods like Walnut Hills and UC and walk 8-10 blocks to get to a subway station.

 

Fun anecdote to go off the idea that people walk everywhere in NYC...

My girlfriend, who lives in Brooklyn, was in town this past weekend. I live without a car in over the rhine. We went to my parents' place in the near burbs (took the bus and then got picked up), and after hearing that we had walked from the Taft museum to Mt Adams to eden park the day before, my mom asked my girlfriend how she enjoyed all the walking and "getting around without a car." Now to be fair, it was incredibly hot Labor day weekend, so the heat was definitely a drag on the experience, but I was quick to point out that being in NYC, Jill walks everywhere herself. To which my mom replied, oh but they can take the subway everywhere, and only walk the last couple blocks. Girlfriend agreed.

 

Now, my parents love to walk. They go to New York and walk everywhere; my Dad once described a walk that seemed to cover a third of Manhattan. Literally they don't use the subway (they do take cabs). So I'm not sure if the mindset for Cincinnati is that one doesn't walk here, or what. The disconnect is real.

 

I've walked from Newport, KY to Northside via UC a few times.  It's actually a very enjoyable walk.  I can think of very few cities that have as much intact urban fabric as Cincinnati.  I tried bringing this up in some masters urban planning classes at UC a few times and everybody laughed at the idea of walking to downtown from UC.  I just don't get it. 

 

I've lived car-free in Chicago and I live car-free in Cincinnati no.  I much prefer my car-free life here than in Chicago.  It's nothing tangible that's preventing people from walking.

A lot of people in the east coast cities walk 30-50 miles per week, which is 30-50 miles more than most people in the Midwest walk all year. 

 

When I lived in Boston I worked on my feet 60-70 hours per week at two jobs and either walked or biked to my jobs since I didn't own a car.  I went on a backpacking trip to California and without any preparation did 18 miles in one day to the top of a 14,000-foot mountain.  Yeah I was pretty tired after that and the effects of high altitude were pretty wild but I was the only one who got to the top. 

 

In Cincinnati I think my record longest walk in one day was 16 miles.  I walked from UC to Price Hill then to Covington then back up to UC. 

 

 

 

I don't think people realize just how much more densely built places like Boston and of course New York City are than the neighborhoods surrounding UC. It's denser than just about anywhere in the South, but still nothing like the population density of Cambridge, Sommerville, etc.  People in those places regularly walk the distance between two neighborhoods like Walnut Hills and UC and walk 8-10 blocks to get to a subway station.

 

Fun anecdote to go off the idea that people walk everywhere in NYC...

My girlfriend, who lives in Brooklyn, was in town this past weekend. I live without a car in over the rhine. We went to my parents' place in the near burbs (took the bus and then got picked up), and after hearing that we had walked from the Taft museum to Mt Adams to eden park the day before, my mom asked my girlfriend how she enjoyed all the walking and "getting around without a car." Now to be fair, it was incredibly hot Labor day weekend, so the heat was definitely a drag on the experience, but I was quick to point out that being in NYC, Jill walks everywhere herself. To which my mom replied, oh but they can take the subway everywhere, and only walk the last couple blocks. Girlfriend agreed.

 

Now, my parents love to walk. They go to New York and walk everywhere; my Dad once described a walk that seemed to cover a third of Manhattan. Literally they don't use the subway (they do take cabs). So I'm not sure if the mindset for Cincinnati is that one doesn't walk here, or what. The disconnect is real.

 

I've walked from Newport, KY to Northside via UC a few times.  It's actually a very enjoyable walk.  I can think of very few cities that have as much intact urban fabric as Cincinnati.  I tried bringing this up in some masters urban planning classes at UC a few times and everybody laughed at the idea of walking to downtown from UC.  I just don't get it. 

 

I've lived car-free in Chicago and I live car-free in Cincinnati no.  I much prefer my car-free life here than in Chicago.  It's nothing tangible that's preventing people from walking.

 

I think the biggest barrier to people walking from UC to downtown (which is IMO a very do-able walk - its only what 2 miles?) is the disinvestment in the areas on Vine street between OTR south of liberty and the University.  One of these days the two will be better connected and more people will be more comfortable walking between the two areas.

Look at how much more dense the section of LA where the current subway extension is being built than any area of Cincinnati outside the basin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=165&v=A89MUkAVbq0

My condo association recently met with a company that manages hundreds of properties around Cincinnati and Dayton. They have a small office in Over-the-Rhine, around the corner from my building, where we met them. They guy told us that they also have an office near Kenwood where they conduct most of their business. But when they started managing properties in OTR, they discovered that no one was willing to drive to Kenwood to conduct meetings, so they opened an office in OTR. Which is a good thing... except that I could tell by the tone of his voice, he was thinking, these OTR yuppies are too lazy to drive anywhere. I don't think it really crossed his mind that walkability is a huge reason, if not the main reason, a lot of people buy properties in the urban core.

 

It's just a totally new mindset for many people in Cincinnati who think of the area as a collection of suburbs and not an actual urban city.

My condo association recently met with a company that manages hundreds of properties around Cincinnati and Dayton. They have a small office in Over-the-Rhine, around the corner from my building, where we met them. They guy told us that they also have an office near Kenwood where they conduct most of their business. But when they started managing properties in OTR, they discovered that no one was willing to drive to Kenwood to conduct meetings, so they opened an office in OTR. Which is a good thing... except that I could tell by the tone of his voice, he was thinking, these OTR yuppies are too lazy to drive anywhere. I don't think it really crossed his mind that walkability is a huge reason, if not the main reason, a lot of people buy properties in the urban core.

 

It's just a totally new mindset for many people in Cincinnati who think of the area as a collection of suburbs and not an actual urban city.

 

Most people who I've talked to who live in OTR absolutely hate the suburbs, and originally moved there from Kenwood/Blueash/Montgomery. Many said they never wish to drive a car again, and absolutely hate surburbian life.

I think the biggest barrier to people walking from UC to downtown (which is IMO a very do-able walk - its only what 2 miles?) is the disinvestment in the areas on Vine street between OTR south of liberty and the University.  One of these days the two will be better connected and more people will be more comfortable walking between the two areas.

 

Agreed, particularly the area around Findlay Playground, and parts of the Vine Street hill itself. Of course, walking up West Clifton is fine, but you still have to navigate the area around Findlay Playground which is one of the few areas in OTR where open air drug sales and prostitution still occur (mostly at night). I sometimes take the Ohio Street steps to Race Street rather than Vine, but by this time of year the steps are overgrown (on a related note they found a body by those steps about a month ago, I probably walked by it half a dozen times without realizing). They had a couple step clean ups last year but I don't remember seeing any this year. Central Parkway to Ravine is also a nice walk if you're heading to the west side of UC's campus. I occasionally take the Emming Street steps with bags of food from Findlay Market, which can be a rather daunting task. Aside from the conditions of the areas - the hills themselves are a detriment to many people.

^If we get to this point, will there ever be a groundswell for an incline?  Revive Bellevue Hill!

I think the biggest barrier to people walking from UC to downtown (which is IMO a very do-able walk - its only what 2 miles?) is the disinvestment in the areas on Vine street between OTR south of liberty and the University.  One of these days the two will be better connected and more people will be more comfortable walking between the two areas.

 

Agreed, particularly the area around Findlay Playground, and parts of the Vine Street hill itself. Of course, walking up West Clifton is fine, but you still have to navigate the area around Findlay Playground which is one of the few areas in OTR where open air drug sales and prostitution still occur (mostly at night). I sometimes take the Ohio Street steps to Race Street rather than Vine, but by this time of year the steps are overgrown (on a related note they found a body by those steps about a month ago, I probably walked by it half a dozen times without realizing). They had a couple step clean ups last year but I don't remember seeing any this year. Central Parkway to Ravine is also a nice walk if you're heading to the west side of UC's campus. I occasionally take the Emming Street steps with bags of food from Findlay Market, which can be a rather daunting task. Aside from the conditions of the areas - the hills themselves are a detriment to many people.

 

The hills comment is also a cultural thing.  Look at San Francisco, people still walk/bike all over the place in that city and its even hillier than Cincinnati.  The city should take efforts to promote its woefully underutilized hillside steps, I'm happy that "Spring in Our Steps" is around to do draw attention to them, but there is very little culture that shows its acceptable to use them.

 

Look at how much more dense the section of LA where the current subway extension is being built than any area of Cincinnati outside the basin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=165&v=A89MUkAVbq0

 

West Central LA is shockingly dense.  The Wilshire corridor is its true downtown in that city - I was kind of blown away at how dense it was when viewing it from the 10 taking the express bus from DTLA to Santa Monica totally flew in my face against the stereotype of LA as a giant suburb.  It especially blew me away how urban the central area of Beverly Hills was, considering the amount of wealth in the area.

Look at San Francisco, people still walk/bike all over the place in that city and its even hillier than Cincinnati. 

 

Yes but their hills are almost 100% built on, the urban fabric is continuous regardless of the terrain.  That means there's houses and shops and people and activity whether the sidewalk is flat or it's a steep stair next to the buildings.  That's not really the case here, the hillsides are mostly sparsely populated forests.  From an ecological perspective that's great, but from a civic standpoint urban forests are at best boring places to walk through, but more often they're just creepy, and are at worst dangerous. 

If you don’t feel like bringing a car to campus (which you’re allowed to do your first year!) you don’t need to worry about groceries!

 

Student Government worked to pass the funding for the University of Cincinnati Grocery Shuttle that will take students to the nearest Kroger on the weekend! This way students have one less thing to worry about with their busy schedules!

 

http://ucadmissions.tumblr.com/post/128849070058/if-you-dont-feel-like-bringing-a-car-to-campus

Look at San Francisco, people still walk/bike all over the place in that city and its even hillier than Cincinnati. 

 

Yes but their hills are almost 100% built on, the urban fabric is continuous regardless of the terrain.  That means there's houses and shops and people and activity whether the sidewalk is flat or it's a steep stair next to the buildings.  That's not really the case here, the hillsides are mostly sparsely populated forests.  From an ecological perspective that's great, but from a civic standpoint urban forests are at best boring places to walk through, but more often they're just creepy, and are at worst dangerous. 

 

That's why the hillshide steps should get more TLC especially from the city.

My condo association recently met with a company that manages hundreds of properties around Cincinnati and Dayton. They have a small office in Over-the-Rhine, around the corner from my building, where we met them. They guy told us that they also have an office near Kenwood where they conduct most of their business. But when they started managing properties in OTR, they discovered that no one was willing to drive to Kenwood to conduct meetings, so they opened an office in OTR. Which is a good thing... except that I could tell by the tone of his voice, he was thinking, these OTR yuppies are too lazy to drive anywhere. I don't think it really crossed his mind that walkability is a huge reason, if not the main reason, a lot of people buy properties in the urban core.

 

It's just a totally new mindset for many people in Cincinnati who think of the area as a collection of suburbs and not an actual urban city.

 

I've seen a couple instances of similar things, including an OTR resident demanding that Cincinnati Bell have a location to turn in a cable box downtown.  She repeatedly said (on twitter) "no, it HAS to be in 45202".  Frankly, I find that attitude ridiculous. Living in downtown/OTR surely allows for a car-lite lifestyle, but it's simply unreasonable to expect to not have to drive or take the bus anywhere.  Can you imagine the outrage someone from West Chester would receive if they got on Twitter and demanded that Park and Vine open a location there because they refuse to drive down to OTR? Ridiculous.  Cincinnati doesn't have a rail network, and the bus system is barely usable outside of the basin and maybe Northside.  It's great that the walkability of the basin allows for a pretty localized life, but if you want to participate regionally, driving is going to be part of the equation most of the time.

My condo association recently met with a company that manages hundreds of properties around Cincinnati and Dayton. They have a small office in Over-the-Rhine, around the corner from my building, where we met them. They guy told us that they also have an office near Kenwood where they conduct most of their business. But when they started managing properties in OTR, they discovered that no one was willing to drive to Kenwood to conduct meetings, so they opened an office in OTR. Which is a good thing... except that I could tell by the tone of his voice, he was thinking, these OTR yuppies are too lazy to drive anywhere. I don't think it really crossed his mind that walkability is a huge reason, if not the main reason, a lot of people buy properties in the urban core.

 

It's just a totally new mindset for many people in Cincinnati who think of the area as a collection of suburbs and not an actual urban city.

 

DO NOT hire that management company btw.  Message me offline for more info.

My condo association recently met with a company that manages hundreds of properties around Cincinnati and Dayton. They have a small office in Over-the-Rhine, around the corner from my building, where we met them. They guy told us that they also have an office near Kenwood where they conduct most of their business. But when they started managing properties in OTR, they discovered that no one was willing to drive to Kenwood to conduct meetings, so they opened an office in OTR. Which is a good thing... except that I could tell by the tone of his voice, he was thinking, these OTR yuppies are too lazy to drive anywhere. I don't think it really crossed his mind that walkability is a huge reason, if not the main reason, a lot of people buy properties in the urban core.

 

It's just a totally new mindset for many people in Cincinnati who think of the area as a collection of suburbs and not an actual urban city.

 

I've seen a couple instances of similar things, including an OTR resident demanding that Cincinnati Bell have a location to turn in a cable box downtown.  She repeatedly said (on twitter) "no, it HAS to be in 45202".  Frankly, I find that attitude ridiculous. Living in downtown/OTR surely allows for a car-lite lifestyle, but it's simply unreasonable to expect to not have to drive or take the bus anywhere.  Can you imagine the outrage someone from West Chester would receive if they got on Twitter and demanded that Park and Vine open a location there because they refuse to drive down to OTR? Ridiculous.  Cincinnati doesn't have a rail network, and the bus system is barely usable outside of the basin and maybe Northside.  It's great that the walkability of the basin allows for a pretty localized life, but if you want to participate regionally, driving is going to be part of the equation most of the time.

 

I don't think that's a good comparison.  A retail outlet of a chain that has multiple locations is very different from a one in the nation hippie green general store.

 

Also, West Chester does have their own Cincinnati Bell store... and Downtown did but they just closed it and told downtown people to drive to the suburbs.

My condo association recently met with a company that manages hundreds of properties around Cincinnati and Dayton. They have a small office in Over-the-Rhine, around the corner from my building, where we met them. They guy told us that they also have an office near Kenwood where they conduct most of their business. But when they started managing properties in OTR, they discovered that no one was willing to drive to Kenwood to conduct meetings, so they opened an office in OTR. Which is a good thing... except that I could tell by the tone of his voice, he was thinking, these OTR yuppies are too lazy to drive anywhere. I don't think it really crossed his mind that walkability is a huge reason, if not the main reason, a lot of people buy properties in the urban core.

 

It's just a totally new mindset for many people in Cincinnati who think of the area as a collection of suburbs and not an actual urban city.

 

I've seen a couple instances of similar things, including an OTR resident demanding that Cincinnati Bell have a location to turn in a cable box downtown.  She repeatedly said (on twitter) "no, it HAS to be in 45202".  Frankly, I find that attitude ridiculous. Living in downtown/OTR surely allows for a car-lite lifestyle, but it's simply unreasonable to expect to not have to drive or take the bus anywhere.  Can you imagine the outrage someone from West Chester would receive if they got on Twitter and demanded that Park and Vine open a location there because they refuse to drive down to OTR? Ridiculous.  Cincinnati doesn't have a rail network, and the bus system is barely usable outside of the basin and maybe Northside.  It's great that the walkability of the basin allows for a pretty localized life, but if you want to participate regionally, driving is going to be part of the equation most of the time.

 

I'd argue that bus system isn't too bad around Peebles Corner and the University as well, anywhere along Reading Road gets very frequent service, shame much of that area isn't really destinations for choice riders.  M+'s route is good but on weekdays only.  Its not all the city but there is more than just OTR and Northside where bus service is useful (though not perfect).  Don't forget Covington or Newport KY either.

 

I also don't think its unreasonable for people to ask for services within walking distance either.  This will continue to change as more people move to walkable neighborhoods - I can get all my shopping done in Chicago without setting foot in a car - 10 min trip north by bus gets me to a major shopping district where I live.  Yes I know large bus system and rail system, but still more gentrified cities have more services.