I've got to say most of the new building, is nothing more then a way to make more of the suburban kids, comfortable with living in the city. The new townhomes being build on the inside are exactly the same as the homes being built up in Mason, the new retail buildings contain, stuff like Starbucks, and BDubs, not small business's, as they can't afford the rents.

-I can't help but believe the demand will increase in that area-particularly along MLK and Highland/an d other perpendicular streets.  I would pay a premium to avoid driving to work with the time and money constraints.  >1000 residents and fellows work in the combined programs in the uptown area and I think the general leaning is to support the surrounding area.

I've got to say most of the new building, is nothing more then a way to make more of the suburban kids, comfortable with living in the city. The new townhomes being build on the inside are exactly the same as the homes being built up in Mason, the new retail buildings contain, stuff like Starbucks, and BDubs, not small business's, as they can't afford the rents.

 

I actually like the new townhomes that they built on Jefferson, rear entry garages go a long way

-I can't help but believe the demand will increase in that area-particularly along MLK and Highland/an d other perpendicular streets. I would pay a premium to avoid driving to work with the time and money constraints. >1000 residents and fellows work in the combined programs in the uptown area and I think the general leaning is to support the surrounding area.

 

Well, where do you work?  There is the bike...

BTW, I've heard some discussion that Corryville Community Council actually did not grant their approval of the most recent designs.  I'm not sure what to believe right now, but it's something to keep an eye on.

I've got to say most of the new building, is nothing more then a way to make more of the suburban kids, comfortable with living in the city. The new townhomes being build on the inside are exactly the same as the homes being built up in Mason, the new retail buildings contain, stuff like Starbucks, and BDubs, not small business's, as they can't afford the rents.

 

I actually like the new townhomes that they built on Jefferson, rear entry garages go a long way

I'm not talking about the new townhomes, I'm more talking about all the new apartment complexes, where its like $700 a month for ones portion of a 4 bedroom apartment. I can get a 4 bedroom house in Clifton for about $1100 a month, and thats total.

 

Anchor buys University Plaza for $4.55 million

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2008/12/anchor-buys-university-plaza-for-455.html

 

Anchor Properties has completed the purchase of University Plaza in Corryville from the Marge and Charles J. Schott Foundation for $4.55 million, signaling that redevelopment of the shopping center may be getting closer to reality.

 

Foundation trustees had not wanted to sell the asset because its occupancy rates remained relatively high and it continued to provide revenue, but finally put the property up for sale a year ago.

The lack of a Vine/Short Vine re-connection is extremely frustrating.  It wouldn't be that hard to incorporate this into the latest plan.  How did the entire original plan, with parking hidden behind buildings, pedestrian-friendliness, and the Vine Street connection get totally scrapped?

It's funny how Cincinnati takes so long to develop that planners imagine something in one recession and break ground in the next one.

 

It's not that developers like lots of parking, it's that it's the cheapest and often default condition. Think of parking not as a force of evil, but as a ghostly symptom of lack of money and creativity (often both.)

 

Cincinnati's urban core environment is neither rich enough to routinely justify structured parking nor sophisticated enough to reduce parking ratios. Y'all have got to remember that although Cincinnati is beautiful and full of corporate headquarters, it's still just a down-on-its-luck rust belt city. And I'm not just banging on Cincinnati. Let me give you an example: In Charlotte, the city imposes minimum density and maximum parking ratios, and they have a special fund called SCIP that provides money for "critical infrastructure improvements" just like realigning Vine Street. Can you imagine how that would impact the Kroger redevelopment?

 

 

Cincinnati's urban core environment is neither rich enough to routinely justify structured parking nor sophisticated enough to reduce parking ratios. Y'all have got to remember that although Cincinnati is beautiful and full of corporate headquarters, it's still just a down-on-its-luck rust belt city.

 

Sad, but true.

Just to reiterate how fast they should be tearing this disaster down....and you guys should actually read some of the comments on this article. Most of them are actually accurate and legitimate this time!

 

Rodent complaint closes Kroger store

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090818/NEWS01/308140017/Rodent+complaint+closes+Kroger+store

By Jennifer Baker

[email protected]

 

CORRYVILLE – Kroger officials said they voluntarily closed the store near the University of Cincinnati Monday night due to a complaint about rodents.

 

Someone complained to the Cincinnati Health Department, which alerted Kroger Monday, said Meghan Glynn, a spokeswoman for Kroger.

^Beer is about the only thing I will buy at that Kroger, I drive to the one in Hyde Park/Paxton Rd to buy any groceries.  That Kroger and the whole complex around it is a really uninviting place, unless you're a rat apparently.

Corryville Kroger::Ghetto as Water::Wet

I've never had a bad experience per say at that Kroger... but whenever I'm wanting more selection, I drive down to Queen City Kroger on Kenard.

^Beer is about the only thing I will buy at that Kroger, I drive to the one in Hyde Park/Paxton Rd to buy any groceries. That Kroger and the whole complex around it is a really uninviting place, unless you're a rat apparently.

 

I can't even imagine what the Corryville Kroger must be like then ... because, frankly, I find the Hyde Park Kroger to be overcrowded and somewhat unclean.

 

It's a shame that - in the context of all these complaints about the store - that a redesigned site with a short vine connection hasn't been given more consideration.

I'd guarantee it will be the cleanest Kroger in town for the next few weeks/months!!! :wink2:

The one a little farther down on McMillan? is the true ghetto of the ghetto Krogers.  But I still love it anyway.

I didn't really mind the Corryville Kroger when I lived there; it simply had too small of a selection.

The one a little farther down on McMillan? is the true ghetto of the ghetto Krogers. But I still love it anyway.

 

In Walnut Hills?  I thought they closed that place recently? That was a pretty unenticing store...

Oh come on, as though no mice or roaches have ever scurried through a Whole Foods store. The difference here is somebody reported it. The food snobbery of these kinds of online forums never ceases to amaze.  I've bought food at the Corryville Kroger countless times and went there last night.

Oh come on, as though no mice or roaches have ever scurried through a Whole Foods store. The difference here is somebody reported it. The food snobbery of these kinds of online forums never ceases to amaze.  I've bought food at the Corryville Kroger countless times and went there last night.

 

Thank you! I frequent the Corryville Kroger, and, as I said, I have never had a single issue. The only reason I go to another store is if I know they will have a particular product I'm looking for that the Corryville one won't have - generally more ethnic foods.

It has always stricken me as odd that in 20 years of America rediscovering urban living, Kroger has never built a flagship urban store in its hometown. Blah blah blah, groceries run on narrow profit margins, but other companies have done it. I wonder just what that grocer is going to be at The Banks...

 

If Orlando can do it, Cincinnati can do it:

If Orlando can do it, Cincinnati can do it:

 

The problem is that Publix isn't in the Cincinnati market.  Publix does a lot of urban stores with smaller footprints.  They can be a little more expensive, but nothing that becomes prohibitive.  Kroger on the other hand is very reluctant to do anything outside of their comfort zone.  You also have the organic grocers out there who are more willing to do urban stores, but the demographics must be very strong for them to make that move, and I'm not sure Corryville meets those specs.

Jewel (part of Albertson's) and Dominick's (part of Safeway) have a number of smaller urban-scaled stores in/near downtown Chicago, similar to the Publix store above. It would be nice to see Kroger's try a similar concept.

Oh god, what I wouldn't give for a Publix in Cincinnati!!! Publix is already in Nashville (and kicking Kroger's ass, btw) so it's just a few more hours up I65/I71. ;)

 

Actually, Corryville wouldn't be a bad location for a Publix either. Although they have an upscale reputation, Publix certainly targets the college student market in other cities.

 

I can only dream ...

Wow, I had no idea Publix had gotten that far north. When I lived down south, Publix was strictly a Florida chain with only a smattering of stores in southern Georgia.

Oh yeah. Publix is probably the dominant Grocery store in Atlanta now, and they've invaded Nashville in a big way.

 

Sadly, this will probably never relate to Cincinnati, or our underutilized urban grocery options. While Publix does have great urban grocery concepts, they generally only implement them once they've already achieved dominance in the suburbs.

 

And as awesome as Publix is, they aren't even in Kentucky or North Carolina yet. So I think that probably has to happen before they test the waters in Cincinnati.

Oh yeah. Publix is probably the dominant Grocery store in Atlanta now, and they've invaded Nashville in a big way.

 

I would actually consider Kroger to be the dominant grocer in Atlanta.  Kroger seems to have more locations and bigger stores...especially in the 'burbs.

 

Sadly, this will probably never relate to Cincinnati, or our underutilized urban grocery options. While Publix does have great urban grocery concepts, they generally only implement them once they've already achieved dominance in the suburbs.

 

Publix probably has the urban market cornered more so than anything else.  There are two Publix within 10 blocks of my place here.  The closest Kroger is a semi-urban store as it maintains an urban footprint, but has a large surface lot in the back in which the store is oriented.  This Kroger is about a 20 block distance from my place, and is easiest to get to by car.

 

This is the Publix that is about 5 blocks from my Midtown condo.

Krogers' QFC stores are smaller and more urban in nature, especially in Seattle.  So, Kroger does do urban stores just not in its hometown.

A couple more examples of successful urban grocery stores in other cities -- all near major college campuses:

 

Top: Dominck's near DePaul University, Chicago

Middle: Dominick's near the University of Illinois at Chicago

Bottom: Fresh Grocer near the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia

 

 

And a Harris Teeter in Uptown Charlotte:

If Orlando can do it, Cincinnati can do it:

 

The problem is that Publix isn't in the Cincinnati market.  Publix does a lot of urban stores with smaller footprints.  They can be a little more expensive, but nothing that becomes prohibitive.  Kroger on the other hand is very reluctant to do anything outside of their comfort zone.  You also have the organic grocers out there who are more willing to do urban stores, but the demographics must be very strong for them to make that move, and I'm not sure Corryville meets those specs.

 

I think y'all have picked up on what I was saying, which is that Kroger has no excuse in not having an urban location. It's a Kroger problem, not a Cincinnati victimization. I mean really, Publix is from central Florida. Not the most cosmopolitan roots. Although who knows...maybe it's Cincinnati's culture that underscores Kroger's conservatism.

 

And yeah, Publix is a much better grocer than Kroger. Although I was impressed by the new Kroger in Kenwood.

I wonder if another part of the problem is that Kroger's has a de fecto monopoly on grocery stores in the Cincinnati area, despite the sporadic IGA or Remke's store. They really don't have much incentive to do anything seriously innovative there. If Publix (or Safeway or Albertson's) decided to make a move on the Cincinnati market, things might change.

Remember that not all too long ago, Kroger's was looking at the Gateway Phase 1a (Gateway Condos) site... but I think you all know what happened next!

If this project happens, I would think Kroger would want to remain on that site, so there's a chance they would go for a more urban site.  No way you're going to get them to reduce parking.. the lot they have now is almost always full and despite the semi-urban nature of the area, you're not going to get people who are willing to lug bags of groceries and cases of beer on 20 minute walks.

 

I think the best chance for an urban store will be at the Banks, and I would guess it may end up being something like the new Kenwood store.

Each of the three urban grocery stores I posted earlier has plenty of on-site parking. It's just in a garage above the store, and not a huge surface lot.

Oh yeah. Publix is probably the dominant Grocery store in Atlanta now, and they've invaded Nashville in a big way.

 

Sadly, this will probably never relate to Cincinnati, or our underutilized urban grocery options. While Publix does have great urban grocery concepts, they generally only implement them once they've already achieved dominance in the suburbs.

 

And as awesome as Publix is, they aren't even in Kentucky or North Carolina yet. So I think that probably has to happen before they test the waters in Cincinnati.

 

Publix isnt anywhere close to being the dominant grocery store in Atlanta.  There are over 80 Kroger stores in the Atlanta metro area and only about 30 Publix.

 

I am also suprised that people would want to see Publix move into Cincy as Kroger is one of the cornerstones of the Cincy economy.

Remember that not all too long ago, Kroger's was looking at the Gateway Phase 1a (Gateway Condos) site... but I think you all know what happened next!

 

But if you saw their plans it was a typical suburban store with half the lot devoted to surface parking.

Each of the three urban grocery stores I posted earlier has plenty of on-site parking. It's just in a garage above the store, and not a huge surface lot.

 

It's definitely possible, but I wouldn't say it's likely for this site.  The Banks could make for a change in style for Kroger if they do indeed build a store there, since the parking will already be provided.  That's why I think it'll be the first chance for an "urban" style store in Cincy (plus with the way this project has been going, we'll probably see that phase of The Banks before we see this completed).

 

On a side note, what is the elevator situation like in those stores? It seems like that would be a bottleneck during busy times, with dozens of people trying to squeeze carts in and get to the parking levels.  I know in stores in dense places people use smaller handcarts, or no carts at all and limit their purchases, but that seems like it'd be a huge change for people in Cincy to deal with!

In China these stores are the norm.  I don't know the development models but I wonder how much it costs to put these stores in and what type of density requirement we're looking at.

 

Ram23 to answer your question from my China/Europe experience (mostly China) the carts are usually smaller and people don't carry as much because they tend to frequent the stores more often.  In the Carrefour's, Trust Marts, Park n' Shop and E-Marts I've been to you move from level to level through a series of magnetized conveyor belts (think of what you usually see in an airport but magnetized to keep the carts from moving.  When you leave the store typically parking is underneath or underneath and to the side.  Of course in areas without large scale public transport, parking takes up a huge portion of the site but except for Wal-Mart very few companies ever place parking in large surface lots.  However, Wal-Mart remains Wal-Mart.

It's a combination of smaller-than-usual shopping carts and larger-than-usual elevators. Circulation doesn't seem to be much of a problem. At the DePaul University store I showed, even the grocery store itself is split onto two levels. The ground floor contains the checkout counters, deli, butcher, seafood, florist, bakery, etc., while the upper level has the aisles of regular grocery stuff and the pharmacy. Given the demographics of the neighborhood, most of the customer base consists of college students and young singles, so you don't really find people filling their carts with enough groceries for a huge family.

 

If the store is big enough to warrant the expense, there's also the option of installing one of these:

 

 

A number of IKEA and Target stores use this approach.

The Fresh Grocer is heavily subsidized by the City of Philadelphia and Penn to mitigate the effects of the food desert in West Phila.

 

Added: Cincy is actually pretty competitive but it is Meijer, Bigg's, and Walmart that are the primary competitors here. I'd actually rather see Bigg's try a smaller version of the Hyde Park store than Kroger.

I wonder if another part of the problem is that Kroger's has a de fecto monopoly on grocery stores in the Cincinnati area, despite the sporadic IGA or Remke's store. They really don't have much incentive to do anything seriously innovative there. If Publix (or Safeway or Albertson's) decided to make a move on the Cincinnati market, things might change.

 

Publix has a complete monopoly on Orlando.

On a side note, what is the elevator situation like in those stores? It seems like that would be a bottleneck during busy times, with dozens of people trying to squeeze carts in and get to the parking levels.  I know in stores in dense places people use smaller handcarts, or no carts at all and limit their purchases, but that seems like it'd be a huge change for people in Cincy to deal with!

 

The two Publix groceries near me are 1 story, thus eliminating the need for elevators/escalators.  They are just smaller footprints that usual.  The nearest Kroger is two-stories and is an older model as it has the elevator going up to the second floor that has the Pharmacy and other non-perishables.  Most of your grocery needs are all on the first level eliminating the need for the vast majority of people to go on the second floor.  There is a Target near me as well and they use the escalators shown above and they seem to work fine.  They also use some elevators that lead directly to parking beneath the store (similar to IKEA).

 

I think the easiest answer is to just do a smaller "urban" store design where you have everything on one level.

^Actually, I'd disagree.  I see more advantage to having an even smaller footprint for an urban bi-level store.  If not, it's not much better than building a Walgreens or a large UDF.

My experience with the small urban designs (in NYC) isn't all that great.  They lead to a different shopping culture altogether - you go to the grocery every other day or so and buy what you want to eat that day and the next, rather than the weekly or bi-weekly mega trips you make when you take a car and can carry a bunch of bags with you.  It's an interesting effect.  I'm not opposed to it, I just prefer the larger stores as a personal preference.  They work better with a busy schedule. 

I hate to say it, but the demographics of this area don't really permit the feasibility of a a small footprint store. I've been in many of these stores (Frederick's by Depaul/Chicago, the Star Markets in Boston, heck even the old Giant Eagle Russo's store by John Carroll in Shaker Heights!) and they really do cater toward's an upmarket customer.

 

The demographic in Corryville is odd because it consists of a) students from all sorts of income ranges with different spending habits, b) low-income/food stamp individuals, c) health-minded organic shoppers

 

With a smaller store, you need to stock products that yield a higher profit margin because you have less space in which to sell. Shoppers at Corryville Kroger expect a wide variety of generic value brands and .77 loaves of white bread and $1 tubs of store-brand Kool Aid, while there is a market for $7.00 boxes of granola and soy milk too...see where I am going with this?

^ They should just keep one of everything on hand!

Kroger gets thumbs-up for new Short Vine store

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter

 

 

The latest – and possibly final – design plan for a new Kroger Co. store at University Plaza has won the endorsement of the Corryville Community Council.

 

Plans for redeveloping the retail center have been discussed for years. Corryville’s support means the center could be demolished as early as January. A new Kroger and Walgreens store could open by fall 2011.

 

 

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/05/31/story5.html

What is the site plan like for this?