Those are some expensive apartments. There is so much cheap housing around, I'm not sure what the other new developments around UC charge for rent, but I have a 3 bedroom on Ohio for 995 and last year had a 3 bedroom on McMillan for 750.

 

Well the apartments that are across the street from this (University Park) generally fetch around $2/sf and there is a waiting list.  There is definitely a market for these types of apartments that appeal to both students and their parents.  Students like the close proximity to campus while not being on campus and subject to campus rules and nice living spaces...the parents like the secured nature of the places and the close location that provides still some campus structure for their kids leaving the dorms.  These will rent with no problem.

 

UPA has the same rules. RAs on every floor, tight security at the bottom floor, etc. Unless you're talking about other rules. It might not be a "dry" dorm but a lot of dorms on campus allow alcohol (no one parties in them anyway lol).

Having worked in college housing for 14 years of my life at various campuses, I have a hard time beliveing no one parties in the on-campus dorms at UC.

 

On a topical note, I am glad to see Towne continuing to move forward with this project.  It has the potential to force rental owners in the area to upgrade their properties and provide better living for all.

 

I still favor a streetcar going up Vine rather than W. Clifton.  I think a street car going up Vine would serve the undergraduate campus and medical school/hospitals better than the Clifton path.  Let's not forget that East Campus is a HUGE population of professionals and students.  The students on West Campus will walk to vine to use the streetcar to go downtown.  It isn't like they don't walk across campus everyday anyway.

 

 

Its an institutional-grade investment for any banker, Bortz said. This is not just another make-believe lifestyle center in a cornfield somewhere. Its location is unique.

 

I like this quote. :)

 

Yeah, you gotta love the Bortz family!

Those are some expensive apartments. There is so much cheap housing around, I'm not sure what the other new developments around UC charge for rent, but I have a 3 bedroom on Ohio for 995 and last year had a 3 bedroom on McMillan for 750.

 

Well the apartments that are across the street from this (University Park) generally fetch around $2/sf and there is a waiting list. There is definitely a market for these types of apartments that appeal to both students and their parents. Students like the close proximity to campus while not being on campus and subject to campus rules and nice living spaces...the parents like the secured nature of the places and the close location that provides still some campus structure for their kids leaving the dorms. These will rent with no problem.

 

UPA has the same rules. RAs on every floor, tight security at the bottom floor, etc. Unless you're talking about other rules. It might not be a "dry" dorm but a lot of dorms on campus allow alcohol (no one parties in them anyway lol).

 

 

If you think no one parties in the dorms at UC, you're out of your mind.  Some of my best memories, clear or fuzzy, come from Daniel's Hall first floor

Re-read the post. The dorms that allow alcohol (like Schneider and the cluster of dorms around it) are like that. I did go to one, one time in Schneider and they were all wearing glowsticks, played techno and drank Smirnoff ice - it was hardly a real party. I had friends there and they NEVER partied in that building. Of course Daniels did. I have great memories partying in there. We snuck a keg in through the side entrance one time.

^

Yes, the orange moving carts were great for sneaking in kegs to Daniels.  The first floor also had the ledge outside that collected everyone's trash from the floors above.  Good times.

I think most people pre-game in dorms, then go out.  Sometimes, pre-games could be considered parties in their own right, though.

Love the conversation about pre-gaming and what not, but lets try to stay on topic here.

As for the Clifton vs. Vine hill, I drew some maps which all stress the redevelopment of Corryville as the goal.  Again, if return on investment is the primary goal (above initial ridership), then there are obviously more derelict properties and empty lots in Corryville awaiting investment than on the Clifton Ave. side of campus.  Corryville is significantly underpopulated whereas Clifton is not, and connections between main campus and the medical campus as well as some tourist traffic to the zoo are all benefits.   

 

The long route, using Clifton hill heading to Corryville:

 

Vine Hill with Calhoun/McMillan spur:

 

Uptown loop with streetcars running in a double-track loop but alternating between Clifton Ave. or Corryville on their way to Ludlow.  This alignment has the huge advantage of full vehicle frequency as opposed to two spurs:

 

 

 

 

I like the big uptown loop idea---but this street car discussion should now go to another thread.

I like the third concept, but would like to see the link from OTR running up West Clifton instead of Vine.  If the streetcar eventually was expanded, could there be lines running up both West Clifton and Vine?

 

Also, is it assumed that the streetcar will be able to run through the University Pavilion parking lot?

That would be a major point of congestion, as would the block just south of UC Law School.  McMillan also takes a much steeper dip to Vine than does Calhoun, so there's no way to get through that area on the surface easily.  If Calhoun and McMillan were made two-way it would simplify things if both tracks were put on Calhoun, making McMillan the "car" street even though both would be open to traffic. 

I was able to get a hold of the large scale renderings for this project. If you want to download the PDFs that are extremely detailed then you can go to my site and download them at the provided links. Enjoy!

 

1. Overall Site Plan

 

2. Upper Floors Plan

 

3. Plaza Perspective

Yawn.

I like it. Good stuff Randy.

This is exciting.  I really think this corridor of Calhoun and McMillan is the key for UC really taking off and transforming Uptown.  Ludlow is strong, and with its makeover should only be getting stronger, Burnett Woods is being redeveloped, and having a strong anchor on both the south and north sides of campus could really make the area dynamic. Also, puting more people on the street in that area would do wonders for safety perceptions that still bother that area a little.

Randy:  When I clicked "Site Plan (ground and upper level plans)", a notice in Scribed came up that said it was missing a page 1 and couldn't be loaded.

Randy:  When I clicked "Site Plan (ground and upper level plans)", a notice in Scribed came up that said it was missing a page 1 and couldn't be loaded.

 

same

Ludlow is strong, and with its makeover should only be getting stronger,

 

I don't know how much the makeover will help.  One business went out of business during the makeover, the ludlow garage is still empty aside from olives, mango dulce's space is still empty.  The plaza, which is being built at the cost of two retail storefronts, is going in down one block another plaza, and across the street from a widened sidewalk/half plaza.  The utilities aren't being buried.  There is a net loss of parking spaces one truck loading zone.  All at a cost of $2 million + another 300-500k for the plaza. 

 

Return on investment?  No idea.

 

And while it is nice that there are new sidewalks, desalles corner and obryonville both got new sidewalks recently and I didn't see much of a boom in their NBDs.

There is a lot of dead money on Ludlow at this point. Clifton Town Meeting has not done a very good facilitating development, they still harken back too often to the big win in the 80s when they stopped a Wendy's from getting built.

 

Between the growth in Northside and substantial investment in Uptown, Ludlow could actually be the big loser. If an independent/art movie place opened up nearer to campus that would be the death-knell for Ludlow. I'd also add that it is too dominated by hippy-dippy retail.

an independent or art movie theatre downtown would also probably draw a lot away from ludlow.  The esquire is the engine of that NBD

maybe theres a market for hippy dippy retail

Randy:  When I clicked "Site Plan (ground and upper level plans)", a notice in Scribed came up that said it was missing a page 1 and couldn't be loaded.

 

I can't figure out how to avoid that from happening with that particular PDF.  What does work is while you're at that point click on the Download tab and select Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) as the file type to download.  That should do the trick...the problem is something wrong with the preview and not the actual document.

This proposal looks fine to me. They really just need to build something on the other side of the damn street. Retail like that does best when its on both sides.

 

Also I don't feel these buildings need to be spectacular. Its just filler. There's nothing wrong with filler. The high school tower terminating the vista doesn't need competition in this case.

There is a lot of dead money on Ludlow at this point. Clifton Town Meeting has not done a very good facilitating development, they still harken back too often to the big win in the 80s when they stopped a Wendy's from getting built.

 

Between the growth in Northside and substantial investment in Uptown, Ludlow could actually be the big loser. If an independent/art movie place opened up nearer to campus that would be the death-knell for Ludlow. I'd also add that it is too dominated by hippy-dippy retail.

 

I couldnt agree more.  There is too much hippy dippy bs.  I want some legitimate clothing options.  Sure Mustard Seed is nice but we need more!  The old funeral home needs to be developed as an extension of Ludlow and the Burnet Woods Cafe/restaurant needs to be put at the corner of Clifton and Ludlow, with cafe type seating opening up to the fountain.  The proposed location of the cafe/restaurant in Burnet leaves it isolated. 

an independent or art movie theatre downtown would also probably draw a lot away from ludlow. The esquire is the engine of that NBD

 

I'd vote for a movie theatre in the CBD in a heartbeat.

^tell 3cdc

 

I don't know that a downtown movie theater would definitely signal the end for the Esquire in the way one on Calhoun might.

 

Even the bookstore on Ludlow that is sadly now a chiropracter was too dominated by a hippy-dippy books and it didn't carry any periodicals at all. Some sort of book/furniture/office supplies/gift shop place would work well there.

an independent or art movie theatre downtown would also probably draw a lot away from ludlow. The esquire is the engine of that NBD

 

I'd vote for a movie theatre in the CBD in a heartbeat.

 

Shit, I didn't even catch what type of theatre you were even describing. Yes, I think an independent theatre would take away from the Esquire to a certain degree.

So I am sitting at the Panera on Calhoun eating lunch right now, and I happened to sit down next to a group of four guys who are discussing this very project. They have dozens of full scale renderings from all angles (ones that are not floating around online) and they seem to be heavily focusing on the hotel aspect of this project. They guy who is talking alot is wearing a Schnippel Construction shirt....they keep bringing up the Hilton Garden Inn brand. They've also been talking alot about codes/architecture, and specifics like parking garages, electric panels, fire alarm systems, and even key card entry systems.

 

VERY interesting!!!!

Hilton Garden Inns are great, and I know that the Uptown market is begging for another hotel.  This could be the anchor that gets this project moving.

The only thing that scares me about a new hotel in Clifton is the possible loss of business to the Vernon Manor.  The absolute last thing Corryville needs is the Veron manor shut down and that building turned into section 8 houseing like the old hotel building in Walnut Hills. 

^  of course i hope it doesn't shut down... but, it could also become condos or apartments... What a beautiful building.

I hope for more competition in the uptown hotel market. The Marriott is able to mark up and the Manor needs to clean up, it is rather dumpy. The Hampton Inn and Hilton Garden Inn would be great additions.

The manor is far from dumpy.  I have stayed their and it was very nice.  It has charactor that todays cookie cutter, cheap, shiny brass hotel interiors lack.  Plus the fact you could stay in the same room the beatles, for 70 bucks a night.  You can't do that at a holiday inn express.

 

They also have a true hotel bar. ;)

^ My folks always stayed at the Vernon Manor when I lived in Corryville (my place had no extra sleeping room). It is in wonderful shape and is an asset to Cincinnati.

Man, it sounds like I need to check this place out!

Vernon Manor is not dumpy.  My husband and I stayed there on our wedding night. 

This is going to sound bad but I've never heard of Vernon Manor and after looking it up on google images, I don't even recognize the building! Is it in Mt Auburn? I never go there.

They have a great sunday brunch

This is going to sound bad but I've never heard of Vernon Manor and after looking it up on google images, I don't even recognize the building! Is it in Mt Auburn? I never go there.

 

It's on the corner of Oak and Burnet, across the street from the Hauck Botanic Garden, one block NW of Taft and Reading.

David, I'm surprised

 

Your such an uptown ambassador, but yet you have never heard of the Vernon Manor.  Actully the first time I knew of the Vernon Manor was when I stayed there as an 8th grader attending my sisters swim meet at St. X.  My father (a UC grad) showed me around what he claimed what was left of UC (aka UC in 2001).  What I remember most is the Indian students playing cricket on what is now the baseball field.  I still laugh everytime I see people playing cricket becuase, I have never seen cricket before that time either way the Vernon Manor is a serious gem, and cannot fall fate to the Hotel Alms

The Vernon Manor struggles from a poor location.  It is hard to get to if you're unfamiliar with the area, and the surrounding Corryville neighborhood is a dump for the most part.  I believe just a block away from the Manor is an entire city block up for sale.  If/when Corryville turns around, then it will make for a big success for the Manor.

The Vernon Manor struggles from a poor location.  It is hard to get to if you're unfamiliar with the area, and the surrounding Corryville neighborhood is a dump for the most part.  I believe just a block away from the Manor is an entire city block up for sale.  If/when Corryville turns around, then it will make for a big success for the Manor.

 

Clearly! I've never even seen it lol How embarassing. I thought I knew where everything was in Cinci!

 

I don't know that a downtown movie theater would definitely signal the end for the Esquire in the way one on Calhoun might.

 

Even the bookstore on Ludlow that is sadly now a chiropracter was too dominated by a hippy-dippy books and it didn't carry any periodicals at all. Some sort of book/furniture/office supplies/gift shop place would work well there.

 

Oh no, I couldn't see that happening. I certainly hope that would never happen. Esquire is my favorite theater. It has its own niche as an indie theater and I think a lot of people are loyal to it due to that. I just wish they accepted credit card instead of just cash - I'm not too Indie for Mastercard! I wonder if they have a suggestion box lol. Mariemont is great too but to me, Esquire is the cornerstone of Ludlow. It makes it complete. It's such an asset to Clifton. A great entertainment option in a NBD that literally has everything one would need on a daily or weekly basis.

 

 

isnt the vernon manor technically in avondale?  Isn't the corryville/avondale border burnet? 

isnt the vernon manor technically in avondale?  Isn't the corryville/avondale border burnet? 

 

You're always asking us about boundaries  :-P Aren't you the GIS master? lol

 

I know Avondale extends south more than people realize. That sounds about right but I'm not sure.

isnt the vernon manor technically in avondale?  Isn't the corryville/avondale border burnet? 

 

You're always asking us about boundaries  :-P Aren't you the GIS master? lol

 

I know Avondale extends south more than people realize. That sounds about right but I'm not sure.

 

Ha, yea I am a nerd about boundaries.  Chances are, if I ask, I know the answer, just trying to get the facts straight on this damn board.  ha. 

Don't sass me boy.

Don't sass me boy.

 

oh ill sass your ass all i want. 

That has innuendo written all over it lol