I'm very happy to finally see some progress on what I think is quite possibly one of the most crucial projects for UC right now. This site really does hurt the university's image. I hate to say it, but it really does scream "ghetto", which is the image UC is really trying to move away from. I am a freshman at UC, and my dorm looks out over this site, which is an absolute mess. The rest of the area has progressed very nicely and is thriving -- this site is really the last piece in the puzzle in making this area really come together.

 

It is unfortunate that many students think this way and refer to, what they call Clifton, as the ghetto.  I always say, "last time I checked most ghettos don't have a Panera Bread, Urban Outfitters, Starbucks, American Apparal..."

 

I think you misunderstood where I was coming from...I love the way the rest of the area has progressed, it's awesome, very convenient for students, diverse mix of tenants, and is relatively safe; however, the area we are discussing looks awful, is not lit at all, is covered with graffiti and full of broken glass, empty beer/liquor containers, and just looks plain sketchy and unsafe...it looks like "the ghetto". I no longer think of the area surrounding UC as the ghetto, because times have changed. It's time that this once piece of the past changes too to reflect where UC is going and how thriving this area really is

^I understood you...you just misinterpreted what I said as an attack towards you.  Not the case.

so any guesses as to when demolition of the two old fast food buildings will begin?

>m thinking of the area along Wheeler and heading down East Clifton. Nearly all of the folks I know of who have been mugged were in that neck of the woods.

 

Dave, who are all these people being mugged?  I don't know a single person who has been mugged, ever, anywhere in Cincinnati and I know a lot of people, have lived in the UC area off and on since 1997.  A friend of mine parked his car a block off Vine for 6 years with no break-ins.  In fact I don't personally know anyone who's been mugged anywhere in any city I've lived except Athens where some frat guys beat up some guy I know without provocation in the city's solitary parking garage.  I do know plenty of people who have been in serious car wrecks.  Again, I'm more worried about a run-in with a deer than with the 'Nati's hordes of midnight ramblers.   

 

I had a friend of mine get mugged on the corner of Wheeler and Warner. He was held up at plastic squirt-gun point. He was able to get out of the mugging because he could tell they were plastic squirt guns, but that doesn't change the fact that others, not so keen because of fear, would have been not as lucky and had their belongings taken.

so any guesses as to when demolition of the two old fast food buildings will begin?

 

I'm kind of hoping that they incorporate them into the design to pay tribute to the beauty that was previously there.

I had a friend of mine get mugged on the corner of Wheeler and Warner. He was held up at plastic squirt-gun point. He was able to get out of the mugging because he could tell they were plastic squirt guns, but that doesn't change the fact that others, not so keen because of fear, would have been not as lucky and had their belongings taken.

 

I saw two people held at gunpoint in Clifton Heights not that long ago. I called and reported it to the police. People do get mugged pretty frequently in Clifton Heights. People have stolen stuff off my porch (who steals a chair?!) and someone rummaged through my car not that long ago and took all my loose change. That's why I never lock my car door; so they don't break my window. I'm also not dumb enough to leave anything valuable in there. It's far from being a perfect neighborhood, the important thing is that people report crime whenever it happens. People slightly exaggerate how bad it is because it's mostly kids from suburbia who don't know what precautions to take or how to react in situations.

I knew a guy in CCM (this is going back probably 2 or 3 years at this point) who was roughed up pretty good by a gang of 'utes. Black eye and all. As I recall, he was carrying his laptop which he was no longer carrying after that. Through the grapevine, I've heard of a number of Asian CCMers get accosted to varying degrees on Ohio and also on Warner, some rises to the level of robbery, though mostly aggravated menacing.

 

Now my dad could you stories about the area in the 60s when picking on UC students was a big game for the folks who lived off Straight Street. He worked for the CRC.

Crime around college campuses will always be higher -- including Clifton Heights. That's not an uncommon issue. Down here in Lexington, some of the highest crime rates in the city are not in the "ghetto" neighbourhoods that some lambaste all over -- it's near the college campuses. They are the demographic that has money, are nieve and often forget to do simple things like lock doors, hiding any visible images of wealth in a car (e.g. CD's), etc. People pry on opportunity, and college students tend to make themselves stand out like beacons.

Well guys I've lived on my own in cities for 10 years now, still never seen a mugging or been on the receiving end of anything.  I have been close to some shootings, but those did not involve people who were in or ever were going to go to college, if you know what I'm saying.  And I don't think I'm unusual at all...if there are 100 crimes against UC students per year or roughly 2 per week, and there are say 20,000 students actually living on or near campus, it's pretty damn unlikely you're going to be or know one of those people.  Again, I know a dozen or so people in that time who have been in serious car accidents, hit deer, broke a leg skiing, one girl got frostbite in the mountains and lost her toes, etc. 

 

But crimes are like skyscrapers -- even though a skyscraper has a very small footprint and might have less floor area than a suburban midrise, it occupies a larger place in the mind.  If someone hears someone's half-brother's former roommate got mugged near campus, well then campus must be terribly dangerous. 

 

College administrations are reliably hilarious when it comes to crime on campus.  At OU they installed the ubiquitous blue phones back in 1995, and article that ran in 2005 as a 10-year review said they had been used ONCE IN TEN YEARS to report an actual crime in progress.  Obviously, the appearance of cell phones around 2001 changed things, but still, the part of the annual "Take back the night" march that concerns campus safety is a bit ridiculous. 

"And I don't think I'm unusual at all..."

 

I loved your list of roommates :)

 

We have the "blue phone" deal at UK, but a report last year found that only half were in operation and that they were used very infrequently. There were only a handful of calls that were actually followed up -- most were just drunk kids fucking around with the systems. Cell phones have rendered them all but obsolete. I'm not for sure of UC has implemented this, but UK started yesterday with WARN -- Wide Area Rapid Notification system, which text messages cell phones, and e-mails students about any major campus situation. It's entirely voluntary, but we had 14,000 that tried to sign up yesterday alone out of a university population of 30,000. That's FAR better than many other campuses, which are reporting only a 25% sign-up rate after one year.

It's a marketing ploy to put parents at ease when they go on campus tours.

It's a marketing ploy to put parents at ease when they go on campus tours.

 

 

+1. Many parents are from the suburbs or rural ares and think people walking = crime.

And good golly, don't even talk about public transportation.

College administrations are reliably hilarious when it comes to crime on campus.  At OU they installed the ubiquitous blue phones back in 1995, and article that ran in 2005 as a 10-year review said they had been used ONCE IN TEN YEARS to report an actual crime in progress.  Obviously, the appearance of cell phones around 2001 changed things, but still, the part of the annual "Take back the night" march that concerns campus safety is a bit ridiculous.

 

I worked at the library when I was in college and I had a acquaintance/friend who was well involved in that "Take Back the Night" march.  The evening after they had their march, I was talking to her in the library and she said she was going to call Safe Ride (basically a free night time cab service from campus to your house) for a ride back to her house.  I was honestly confused.  I asked her, "Didn't you take back the night last night?"  She said yes, and then I said, "Well don't you think that in order to take back the night for good you need to continue to act as if the night were yours?"  It seemed obvious to me that a little personal risk was required to obtain anything of value, but she didn't seem to buy that.  What can you do?

^You worked at the library?  Nerd. 

 

These days most females either chat on their phones or they act like they are all the way home when walking, not sure what that exactly is supposed to accomplish since the person on the other end doesn't necessarily know where that person is, and probably couldn't give useful directions, being women and all. 

 

 

>It's a marketing ploy to put parents at ease when they go on campus tours.

 

The whole university campus exists as a marketing device.  Obviously with women taking over the world their perceived safety is fundamental to a university achieving its enrollment goals.  The courtesy vans mentioned previously were abused like crazy at my other alma mater, University of Tennessee, where they simply ferried people from to bar to bar, bar to party, party to bar, or party to party.  In fact people used to just hop in the vans and chat it up with other passengers to find out where the party was. 

 

 

I worked at the library when I was in college and I had a acquaintance/friend who was well involved in that "Take Back the Night" march.  The evening after they had their march, I was talking to her in the library and she said she was going to call Safe Ride (basically a free night time cab service from campus to your house) for a ride back to her house.  I was honestly confused.  I asked her, "Didn't you take back the night last night?"  She said yes, and then I said, "Well don't you think that in order to take back the night for good you need to continue to act as if the night were yours?"  It seemed obvious to me that a little personal risk was required to obtain anything of value, but she didn't seem to buy that.  What can you do?

 

This is a fantastically spot-on observation.

"Stranger Danger" has ruined our society.

^You worked at the library?  Nerd.

 

Isn't that a given if you post on UrbanOhio?  Anyway, I loved that job, working the Circulation Desk.  It was like being part bartender, part David Spade type assistant.  People would come up to me with their book requests, and I'd serve them.  If they had a question I didn't want to address, I simply said, "You're going to want to ask that at the Reference Desk."

 

Sorry to digress.

"Stranger Danger" has ruined our society.

I totally agree. 

ahhh! I wish they would AT LEAST tear down the Arby's/Hardees mess already. A vacant lot would look so much better than that, anyways.

What would be better is if cities didn't pull the rug of individual rights to private property and enterprise right from under people.

What would be better is if cities didn't pull the rug of individual rights to private property and enterprise right from under people.

 

...and this is true, but I'm talking about NOW. this project was notortiously mishandled from day one, or else we would not have an open lot with 2 eyesores in one of the most bustling, dense areas of the city.

 

it's not about what they could have done...it's about what they need to do now.

Do you guys ever think that in maybe 50 years a new generation is gonna be complaining that we didn't at least save 1 or 2 of these unique Arby's buildings?  I know this might sound goofy, but I'm being serious.  I never thought much about them until they started being demolished in numerous locations and then replaced with the new rectangular stucco/brick copycat looking style they now are building.  I grew up in Middletown and they tore theirs down a few years ago to replace it with the new bland style and I kinda miss the old one.  The old one even had a glass type tunnel leading down a ramp to the dining area.  I mean for a fast food restaurant, you have to give them a little credit for the unique buildings they built back in the 70's.

^ Ha. My buddies and I think that one day there will be retro Pizza Huts like the ones built in the '70s and '80s because today's Pizza Huts are so sterile and awful inside. It's a good thing they had such a cool vibe inside the store; their pizza is terrible.

 

Really, most fast food places of the '70s were very interesting inside. At Captain D's and Long Dan Silver's you felt like you were on a fishing boat, Taco Bells actually had a bell and made at least a slight effort to look Mexican inside and Arby's had the cowboy theme. Now ever thing is white and gray or "2000 Institutional Piss Yellow" and maroon.

Do you guys ever think that in maybe 50 years a new generation is gonna be complaining that we didn't at least save 1 or 2 of these unique Arby's buildings?

 

If they were good architectural pieces of their time...meaning that they showed some particular form of craftsmanship, were unique in their style, or represent a particular time in American history then maybe.  In all reality though I believe that will be left to places like McDonalds that truly illustrate a time in American culture and are symbolic of it.

GCrites80s - Very good points.  I almost forgot about Taco Bells actually have bells in the top center of their buildings.  I also didn't realize how many restaurants really got into their designs in the 70's and even 80's.  Like each one really set the mood.  When you live through it you sometimes forget how neat it was.

 

UncleRando - Go back 100 years and who would have thought plain brick front row buildings would be so unique people would form groups just to protect them from demolition or would hold tours showing them off.  You can always rebuild a building, it's the history connected to the building or a neighborhood, etc. that I think really gets to people in the end.  The age of it.  Just like with antiques, collectibles... the less there is of something, the more valuable it generally is.  There were fights to save a 1950's McDonald's, but there were also fights to save a 1950's Dairy Queen.  When it gets down to just a few of something left, that's when people start chaining themselves to the trees.  And I'm not saying that in 50 or 100 years that any of these types of structures will be safe from demolition, I just wonder if people will consider them relics like we do today when something very old disappears from the landscape.

Do you guys ever think that in maybe 50 years a new generation is gonna be complaining that we didn't at least save 1 or 2 of these unique Arby's buildings? 

 

Several years ago some Connecticut residents protested the demolition of a "Golden Arches" style MacDonald when it was replaced by one of a more "modern" design.

Do you guys ever think that in maybe 50 years a new generation is gonna be complaining that we didn't at least save 1 or 2 of these unique Arby's buildings? 

 

Several years ago some Connecticut residents protested the demolition of a "Golden Arches" style MacDonald when it was replaced by one of a more "modern" design.

 

those were a true slice of Americana, though, so I understand.

 

back on topic, please?

so random question...

 

does this project include the piece of land across from Old St. George? what used to be there anyways? It's all fenced off now, buy there is tile flooring still visible, reminiscent of a fast food restaurant or something....

does this project include the piece of land across from Old St. George? what used to be there anyways? It's all fenced off now, buy there is tile flooring still visible, reminiscent of a fast food restaurant or something....

 

The tile stuff you see is most likely from the McDonalds that used to be there.  As for the development plan, and what is included/envisioned.  You can find more info here:

http://www.chcurc.org/dream/DevelopmentMap.htm

does this project include the piece of land across from Old St. George? what used to be there anyways? It's all fenced off now, buy there is tile flooring still visible, reminiscent of a fast food restaurant or something....

 

The tile stuff you see is most likely from the McDonalds that used to be there.  As for the development plan, and what is included/envisioned.  You can find more info here:

http://www.chcurc.org/dream/DevelopmentMap.htm

 

ahh okay. I had not seen that development map until now...thanks for posting that.

 

so where in the pipeline is this project?? ...I know they picked a developer, but what is the next step? Do they have any possible tenants lined up for either the "entertainment district" or the second phase of "calhoun street marketplace"?

No specific tenants have been mentioned for anything that is to come...however a while back there was talks about a potential place(s) like House of Blues, ESPN Zone, and that kind of thing for the entertainment area.  To be honest I think that those types of places have been eyeing out the Cincy market for years now, but have always been drawn to The Banks...hence why you never saw them pop up on Fountain Square or commit to this project.

 

As for the next step, we'll have to wait and see what happens since they just selected Towne Properties to be the new developer for the site.  Towne typically does a good job at getting things done, so if all goes well I would expect them to step up and do something.

so this afternoon I saw some guys hauling an industrial sized stainless steel sink out of the old Hardee's today in broad daylight. I'm not sure if they broke in or not, but it did not look like they forced their way in...the side door was propped open and they were putting this thing in the back of a beat up pickup truck.

 

hopefully this is a sign that they may be demolishing soon?

This area has seen probably the most tremendous growth in Cincinnati in the last few years. as the new development [hopefully] comes to fruition soon I cannot help but think of the possibilities for new retail, restaurants, entertainment, etc. This is a crucial area to students living on and off campus. I'm going to throw some of my 'wants'  out there and I want to see what you guys think.

 

-Trader Joes (a long shot, but I constantly run into UC people at the Kenwood one. Clifton is FULL of people that love this place)

-Tanning Salon and/or Hair Salon (we don't really have a proper, clean, and efficient place to tan or get our hair cut...this is a problem!)

-Fast order Thai restaurant (one that has reasonable hours, unlike Thai Express on McMil.)

-Verizon/AT&T Company Store (NOT authorized retailer...)

-Barne's & Noble/Borders/Jospeh Beth, etc. (because the UC bookstore is lackluster when it comes to non-text books)

-Lenscrafters/Eyemasters, etc.

-Dry Cleaner (is Shirley's Laundry on McMil even open?!)

-Radio Shack (seriously, there is no good place in walking distance to get batteries, ink cartridges, Ethernet cables, etc. when you need them)

-Sherwin Williams or small hardware store

-First Watch/other breakfast joint (although we are getting on IHOP at Vine and MLK)

 

 

IGA on Ludlow tries to be that and Kroger is getting a new building soon, but yeah a TJ's would rock. Unfortunately, bookstores are barely keeping their heads above water. Amazon crushes them and near a college campus it gets worse not better as the market for mass market books is generally weaker, though a streetcar open up the market enough for one to get there (instead of downtown). Radio Shack used to be on Short Vine.

 

Good list though. I would argue that the streetcar makes a lot of that happen (plus turning the grass median into housing).

-Trader Joes (a long shot, but I constantly run into UC people at the Kenwood one. Clifton is FULL of people that love this place)

 

Clifton Natural Foods at Clifton & McMillan

 

-Tanning Salon and/or Hair Salon (we don't really have a proper, clean, and efficient place to tan or get our hair cut...this is a problem!)

 

BZaar's at Wheeler & McMillan is pretty awesome according to my girlfriend.

 

-Fast order Thai restaurant (one that has reasonable hours, unlike Thai Express on McMil.)

 

Agreed

 

-Verizon/AT&T Company Store (NOT authorized retailer...)

 

There is a Cincinnati Bell store in TUC on campus.

 

-Barne's & Noble/Borders/Jospeh Beth, etc. (because the UC bookstore is lackluster when it comes to non-text books)

 

There is a bookstore on McMillan across from the Wheeler

 

-Lenscrafters/Eyemasters, etc.

 

Yes

 

-Dry Cleaner (is Shirley's Laundry on McMil even open?!)

 

There is one on Clifton near Brueger's

 

-Radio Shack (seriously, there is no good place in walking distance to get batteries, ink cartridges, Ethernet cables, etc. when you need them)

 

You can get these at Business on Main on campus.

 

-Sherwin Williams or small hardware store

 

yes

 

-First Watch/other breakfast joint (although we are getting on IHOP at Vine and MLK)

 

Agreed.

 

 

On the Sherwin Williams/Small hardware store, Beck's is great on McMillan which would be oh so accessible on the uptown streetcar, but not so much by foot.

There's another cleaners right next to Adriatico's pizza on Jefferson.

this article from today's News Record at UC confuses me to no end.

 

since when is there a park going on calhoun?

 

www.newsrecord.org/media/storage/paper693/news/2008/03/03/News/Streetcar.To.Cost.182.Million-3246124.shtml]http://media.www.newsrecord.org/media/storage/paper693/news/2008/03/03/News/Streetcar.To.Cost.182.Million-3246124.shtml

Streetcar to cost $182 million

Construction may delay work on Calhoun-McMicken Park

By: Mike McQueary

Posted: 3/3/08

Plans for a streetcar system in Cincinnati will cost $182 million and may delay development of Calhoun-McMicken Park between Ohio and West Clifton Avenues along Calhoun Street, according to City Council member John Cranley.

 

During a Feb. 25 hearing on the project, Cranley asked City Manager Milton Dahoney if tax increment financing (TIF) that would be used to develop the Calhoun-McMicken Park would be diverted to the streetcar project.

Yeah. I responded to that article. Horrible journalism. There was no digging or interviewing I'm sure.

Yeah. I responded to that article. Horrible journalism. There was no digging or interviewing I'm sure.

 

who did you send your response to and what did you say? I want to do the same. besides being poorly written, that info is just plain incorrect. I think the NR needs to make right and write an article on the REAL issues with the streetcar AND the REAL plans for this district.

Yeah. I responded to that article. Horrible journalism. There was no digging or interviewing I'm sure.

 

who did you send your response to and what did you say? I want to do the same. besides being poorly written, that info is just plain incorrect. I think the NR needs to make right and write an article on the REAL issues with the streetcar AND the REAL plans for this district.

 

You can post comments below the article on the site. I didn't sent an email to the editor... although I may now.

You should also look Mike McQueary up on Facebook and send him nasty messages and/or write on his wall.  :evil:

okay, this makes up for the last one. at least they did some research for this, although this article just makes me feel more frustrated about the whole mess....read on:

 

 

Still no timeline set for groundbreaking on vacant lot

By: Kristen Pearson and Mike McQueary

Posted: 3/13/08

The vacant land between West McMillan and Calhoun streets will remain empty at least until Fall Quarter because the Calhoun revitalization project lacks a groundbreaking date and is still in the planning phase, according to Matt Bourgeois, director for the Clifton Heights Community Urban Redevelopment Corporation (CHCURC).

 

CHCURC is a non-profit development corporation that has partnered with the Clifton Heights Business Association, CUF Neighborhood Association and the University of Cincinnati to undertake the redevelopment of the Clifton Heights Neighborhood.

These writers illustrate a lack of knowledge regarding the history of this project.  They seemed to ask the wrong questions and to the wrong people.  Not to mention they also just seem to be uneducated about the whole development process involving funding, construction timelines, etc.

I still think every media outlet should have a specialist who can guide journalists on where to do research and who to friggin interview! They don't seem to do a good job on their own.

 

"UC just doesn't have a place where everyone goes to meet," said Troy Brummel, a first-year architecture student.

 

Honestly, what does this guy want? This is not Ohio State. Our business districts are fragmented around the campus; it's not linear, but I like it. It allows each district to have its own character. Ludlow has a different vibe than McMillan, McMillan has a different vibe than Calhoun. Calhoun has a different vibe from Short Vine. I see tons of people meeting at Panera, Ben and Jerry's (though I'm not a fan), Bogarts, Sitwells, Blah blah blah and et cetera. Maybe that guy should spend some time outside the studio!

^There are 3 main "Hubs" for the UC Campus.  Calhoun/McMillian corridor, Ludlow, Short Vine.  Each of those areas provide plenty of of areas for people to meet.  Each one of those "hubs" has a distinct "flavor" to them.  You can throw Campus as a place to hang out, but honestly, who does?  I never have, minus sporting events, then I leave campus to do something after the event.  UC has one bar on campus, which is nice, but it is terrible compared to what surrounds it.

Yeah I've been to Catskeller once and saw my friend play live. It just doesn't seem like the right place to drink though. I feel less comfortable drinking on campus for some reason. I can't believe the majority of students support a smoking ban on campus property when we have an on-site bar. I think it's ridiculous. If people can't smoke outside then we need to ban car exhaust. Okay I'm done with my smoking rants lol

^But I hate smelling like a "bar" when I go out. haha, but its ok when you puke all over yourself and sleep in those same clothes over night...idiots...