August 16, 200519 yr I have to work and no one can replace me... :-( You guys are gonna have to fill in for me at this meeting. Some people from my neighborhood are going to attend.
August 16, 200519 yr dglenn, Just a quick question. Do you have CPS's ear? I mean, what is the likelihood that CPS will listen to the concerns aired at this meeting? I just wondered because I'm not that familiar with the OTR preservation group's influence.
August 17, 200519 yr We're starting to get CPS's ear. We have been in contact with board members and the director of the Ohio Schools Facilities Commission. But we have not made a concerted effort yet to air our concerns and get CPS's attention. That's really what this meeting is the beginning of...we're trying to build as big a coalition as possible, and then FORCE them, through the power of an organized angry mass of citizens, to listen. Strength in numbers is what we're after -- indeed it's probably our only hope -- and it starts tonight. So I can't guarantee you that anything dramatic is going to happen tonight as far as CPS scrapping their plans. But I CAN tell you that the meeting will be a stepping stone in building a movement, and that the movement will lead to a fight. Hope you can make it!!
August 18, 200519 yr Crap! Today is Wednesday and I completely forgot to tell you that I couldn't make it. How did it go?
August 18, 200519 yr I'll let you know when I get a second...but for now, does anyone know where in this forum Nick Spencer made his post about supporting the demolition at Mercer Commons?
August 18, 200519 yr It's in this thread. He is responding to other people's responses. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4726.0;topicseen
August 18, 200519 yr Hi Dglenn glad you guys got my mail about N spencer. I supported him in the past but not anymore.
August 18, 200519 yr I caught all of your comments over there. It's a pretty interesting discussion. I like to see this passion!
August 18, 200519 yr Is SCPA tearing down the existing buildings on block where it is relocating? If so add another half dozen to the body count. I'm extremely skeptical that everything they want to do couldn't be done on the existing vacant land, since these buildings occupy no more than 10% of the block. Also, we must ask what specifically the SCPA has to gain by relocating within eyesight of Music Hall. Its new on-site facilities will surely be an improvement, but why does the school have to relocate in Over-The-Rhine at all, and why can't the specific new facilities it wants be built on the large lawn immediately north of the existing school? As someone who has been invovled with the arts my entire life, proximity of musicians to artists to actors to architects to film students rarely leads to collaborations or anything that wouldn't have happened if people didn't have casual contact under the same roof. Also, I am sick of the self-congratulation arts organizations shower on themselves. The altruistic image that has been constructed around Eric Kunzel is completely phoney -- I know for a fact that he hits on his young male students, invites them over to his house, etc., and has been doing so for decades.
August 20, 200519 yr The answer to your first question is yes, the existing buildings at the new SCPA site will be torn down. Now the question is, will 3CDC/SCPA be able to arrange for the transfer of the three properties on the NW corner, given that they are owned by the drop-in center. To my knowledge, this transfer is not a done deal...and without it, the SCPA school cannot be built -- well it COULD be built of course if they were innovative and found a way to integrate the buildings, but I'm pretty sure they want to occupy the WHOLE site.
August 21, 200519 yr It is a given that CPS wants an entire block for a new school. In my opinion, It shows lack of innovation, but if that is what they want, I am sure they could get it by emminent domain. Schools ARE a public purpose.
August 22, 200519 yr We池e hoping you, your neighbors, and friends will attend a very important meeting of the Cincinnati Board of Education. THIS Monday, Aug 22 7:00 pm Education Center 2651 Burnet Avenue Phone: 363-0040 Each person is allowed to speak for up to 3 minutes. If you don稚 wish to speak, your presence will provide needed support by just showing up. In a nutshell, here are some of the concerns facing our community: 1 Sale of SCPA for commercial development * the sale and consequent loss of our community痴 greenspace * preservation of the historic SCPA Building * hasty, ad hoc commercial development detrimental to our community * not ALL notions of economic development align with community development 2 Rothenberg School should be renovated ・FIRST * this neighborhood school is a community asset; an historic treasure * renovating Rothenberg will cost far less than new construction * this school is our communities・opportunity WRIT LARGE: to become a beautiful school campus not only for k-8 students but also as an adult learning center (an evening, weekend, and summer campus); and, a place for community meetings of all sorts. A Rothenberg School Campus would be a place of pride for everyone who lives nearby. 3 Constructing a new Washington Park School is wasteful; a financial boondoggle * Declining school enrollment doesn稚 justify building a new school * the proposed site requires demolition of 22 historic buildings, mostly residential * the land acquisition costs (plus demolition and environmental cleanup) are exorbitant: between $4-8M * most likely, if a new school is built, then Rothenberg will never be renovated * this site is a dangerous place for students and staff (near Vine Street) 撤olice said the Vine Street corridor from Central Parkway to Green Street has reported the most violent and drug crimes this year, based on service calls.・Publication date: 06-10-2005 http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050610/NEWS01/506100350 4 No community input; no community planning * the short list is too long for this email! You can help change these misguided policies and plans. Please come to this meeting, speak up; be there. Thank You!
August 22, 200519 yr Pendleton Neighborhood Council Press Release PNC President Ty Provosty Vice President Vacant Secretary Cathy Degi Treasurer Lisa Cameron Trustees Marvin Butts Elaine Coffy Joe Deluco Chuck Downton Meredith Downton Marge Hammelrath Smith Hammelrath Brenda Tarbell August 18, 2005 PRESS RELEASE Subject: The Pendleton/Over-the-Rhine community group’s response to: Cincinnati Public Schools’ eminent plan for the demolition of twenty-two historic buildings in Over-the-Rhine; and Cincinnati Public Schools’ eminent plan to sell off surplus school buildings and the adjoining grounds for commercial development before December 31, 2005. Dear Members of the Cincinnati Press, A large coalition of community groups, residents and homeowners, (including neighborhood councils), that were participants in the Over-the-Rhine Comprehensive Plan approved by City Council in 2002, are strongly urging reconsideration of several Cincinnati Public School planned relocations, closings and real estate transactions. The group, following considerable research and assessment of current plans, is questioning whether the intentions are the best plans for children of the city, Over-the-Rhine and Pendleton and the best efficiency of tax dollar expenditures by Cincinnati Public Schools. The group, which has been frustrated and even stonewalled by Cincinnati Public Schools, 3CDC and other agencies in numerous attempted information inquiries is urging community input and transparency to both the planning process and transactions. The group is urging a temporary ceasing of any school property sales, including the SCPA building, its adjacent green space parcel, the Washington Park School building and the Vine Street Elementary site. We also strongly urge a re-examination of the Washington Park elementary school planning on the Mercer Commons site at 14th and Walnut streets and reconsideration of remodeling and reuse of the Rothenberg School as a first priority for providing a quality elementary educational facility in the downtown basin. We feel it is imperative that these plans be re-examined, reconsidered and reprioritized with meaningful and significant community input including the stakeholders in these communities: the parents of the school children; residents; homeowners; and established community groups. The group also seeks understanding of why 3CDC was charged with providing a site for the new Washington Park school, why 3CDC urged a rushed 30-day decision process in choosing the currently planned site, and why these decisions were made without any significant involvement of community stakeholders. We request a thorough examination of the transactions undertaken as a result of this process. This group plans to attend Monday afternoon's Cincinnati Public Schools board meeting to continue discussions with the school board and urge adoption of our positions by the board. Sincerely, Ty Provosty, President Pendleton Community Council P . O . B o x 1 4 3 5 8 , C i n c i n n a t i , O h i o 4 5 2 5 0 - 0 3 5 8
August 22, 200519 yr Good luck with your efforts, I live three hours away and so can't really get involved. This is incredibly shady and I'm in disbelief that the local media hasn't blown the roof off whatever is going on.
August 22, 200519 yr The local media seems to be indifferent to CPS, but they really seem to like 3CDC (being that it's the business elite).
August 23, 200519 yr the meeting last night at the school board went really well...a lot of us got up and spoke, and each speaker received plenty of applause. to my surprise, the board seemed genuinely interested and concerned with what we had to say. so we'll see what happens next. my only complaint is that today's enquirer article (http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050823/NEWS0102/508230332/1058/news01) written on the subject failed to address the issue of WPES and demolition at Mercer Commons, and spoke only to the issue of CPS selling its school buildings to commercial developers...this despite the fact that almost everyone who got up and spoke on the issue talked about demolition of 22 historic buildings.
August 25, 200519 yr Kudo's to this weeks citybeat! I emailed them and told them about the meeting and I'm sure others did too! They reported on it in this weeks issue. City Beat is the only news source I have seen so far to mention anything about the demolition of 22 buildings and OTR's residents disaproval. It also mentioned that Justin Jeffre and Jim Tarbell were there :clap:
August 27, 200519 yr ^ Here's the article you were talking about: Porkopolis Taking Undue Advantage in OTR? Edited By Stephanie Dunlap Many Over-the-Rhine community members have been ticked off since 3CDC swooped in a year ago and scuttled the 2002 Over-the-Rhine Comprehensive Plan they'd spent four years hashing out for their neighborhood. 3CDC, of course, is the Cincinnati Center City Development Corporation, the private, nonprofit development entity that local corporate leaders formed in 2003 to jump-start redevelopment in Over-the-Rhine, Fountain Square and the Banks. http://citybeat.com/current/porkopolis.shtml
August 28, 200519 yr THIS Sunday, August 28 6 pm Topic: Fountain Square & Washington Park Special Guests Steve Leeper - President, 3CDC Bobby Maly - Model Group / Washington Park Community Partners About City Talk Radio City Talk Radio promotes current events, issues, and city living. Each week, special guests are featured to talk about happenings in and around the areas of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky. The show focuses on attracting more people to live, work and play in the urban core of Greater Cincinnati. City Talk Radio is a live call-in show and if you have any questions or comments during the show you can give us a call at 513.749.1530. You can also listen live on the internet... click here <http://www.wcky.com/streaming.html>
August 28, 200519 yr I always miss that show, even though I'm always hearing spots for it on 1530. I'll have to make it a point to catch it.
August 30, 200519 yr ^ I don't know...I missed it too. Does anyone know if it can be downloaded or listened to online?
August 31, 200519 yr At the beginning of this month, OTR Holdings (3CDC) snapped up the following properties for about $345,000 each. So, if there's any doubt that 3CDC is buying up OTR properties in bulk....: 1324 Republic (vacant land) 1410 Republic (vacant land) 1415 Republic (warehouse) 1420 Republic (vacant land) 1425 Republic (vacant land) 1506 Republic (warehouse) 1517 Republic (vacant land) 1531 Republic (three-family dwelling) 1533 Republic (two-family dwelling) 1535 Republic (single-family dwelling) 1539-1541 Republic (vacant land/parking lot) 1429 Elm (warehouse) 1547 Elm (vacant land) 1536 Race (vacant land) 1538 Race (laundry) 1540 Race (vacant land) Also, here's a better rendering of the SCPA from the Cole + Russell website:
September 1, 200519 yr grasscat; Just a clarification. I am pretty sure the purchase was 345K for several, if not all of the properties listed. Plus, I think they have actually bought more than the addresses listed. The real question is: what do they plan on doing with these? Housing? Demolition? Edale; That rendering may look OK, but it is nothing compared to the beautiful building they are selling. Also, keep in mind that this site is one whole block between Central Parkway and Washington Park. It is a prime urban site, that has so much possibility. I can picture a design that extends a vista from downtown through to the park, or extends the park into the school grounds.
September 1, 200519 yr According to the Auditor's website, OTR Holdings, which is 3cdc's holding company, now has 66 properties in the area. They essentially own Republic Street.
September 1, 200519 yr Thanks for the clarification, JimmySkinner. I was going by what was listed in the newspaper and on the auditor's site. Looking at the list, it's almost entirely vacant lots. The warehouses are in bad shape. Only one out of the three buildings that are housing are attractive, the other two being completely rundown. They may not be salvageable. Haynesm007...I noticed that too. The list of their properties is five pages when you do an owner search. I'm not so sure I like the idea of having one gargantuan stakeholder in OTR, which is where we're heading. I'd like to know more about their plans to put my mind at ease.
September 2, 200519 yr the rumor is they're going to do some pretty extensive demolition along Pleasant street...but it could just be rumor
September 2, 200519 yr Jimmy: Might I be able to use some of your digital photos of the Mercer Commons buildings? I have written an article relative to all the stuff that's going on to be posted on iRhine (www.irhine.com), and we need some pics. Yours are the only ones I know of. Let me know
September 7, 200519 yr I wanted to post info on a meeting tonight that I got in the iRhine e-mail: The OTR Coalition Consensus Building and Community Voice in Over-the-Rhine by Danny Klingler, iRhine Contributor An ad hoc group of community councils, neighborhood residents, concerned citizens and stakeholders continues its fight for self-determination and democratic process in the Over-the-Rhine community with a coalition building meeting on Wednesday, September 7th at 5:30 p.m. at Verdin Bell Event Centre, 444 Reading Road. All who are affected by or interested in these issues are invited, and encouraged to attend. The Coalition was formed in response to a recent wave of decisions affecting the neighborhood that appear to have been made behind closed doors, and to run contrary to the goals of the 2002 Comprehensive Plan. Of particular concern was the decision - made by outside entities - to place the new SCPA building at 12th at Central Parkway, which forced the proposed new Washington Park Elementary to be moved to a new site. Without any real community input, Mercer Commons was chosen as the optimal site, despite the fact that it did not represent the desires of the community, was originally planned for housing, is located near the epicenter of drug and crime activity in the neighborhood, and contains twenty-two historic buildings that would have to be demolished in order for the school to be built. The Coalition understands that CPS is now reconsidering the disposition of all three OTR elementary schools. The Coalition applauds this, and hopes to play a meaningful role in developing a new plan for OTR schools. Also of concern to the Coalition is a new rider to a piece of State legislation that allows Cincinnati Public Schools to sell surplus school buildings to commercial developers before December 31 of this year, rather than having to offer them to charter schools first, as was previously the case. The current SCPA property and its adjoining greenspace are on the list of CPS properties to be sold. It is not the sale of school property for adaptive reuse per se that is worrisome, but rather the potential for historic buildings and adjoining greenspaces to be demolished or substantially altered. The Coalition would like to have community input into the fate of these neighborhood landmarks and their accompanying greenspaces. These are just two issues of concern related to neighborhood self-determination in Over-the-Rhine; there are many others. Broadly speaking, the Coalition is advocating for three basic things as it moves forward. First and foremost, it is pushing for community buy-in, transparency, and democratic process in all decisions that are made affecting the Over-the-Rhine community. Second, it is requesting that all decisions take into account the economic best interests of the neighborhood. Finally, it is advocating for full accountability on the part of any public or quasi-public entities operating in the neighborhood. The Coalition has had success thus far in getting the attention of key decision makers in the community. The upcoming meeting will seek to follow-up on this momentum by increasing the size of the coalition, and outlining a set of next steps. All who are interested are urged to attend. Verdin Bell Event Centre is located at 444 Reading Road, between Broadway and Pendleton. http://view.amplifyi.com/?ffcd16-fe8715777c620d7d7d-fdf71577776c017977117376-fefa15757d6502
October 5, 200519 yr From the 10/4/05 Cincinnati Business Courier: Group fighting to stop CPS sale of school buildings A coalition of stakeholders in Pendleton and Over-the-Rhine plan to file an injunction to prevent the sale of Cincinnati Public School buildings, the group announced Monday. The group said in a news release that closing Rothenberg Elementary and building a facility at Mercer Commons would put children and educators in one of the highest crime area in the city, cost taxpayers more than $10 million and reduce the tax basis of potential prime mixed-use property. http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/10/03/daily19.html?jst=b_ln_hl
October 5, 200519 yr ^Ok, I play the bad guy, First, wouldn't building the school in this crime-ridden area get rid of said crime? The bad element would move on, would it not. If the Art Academy used the Neighborhood Council logic, they would of never moved to the crime-infested area of OTR from Eden Park. Also, what is this "potential prime mixed-use property". Is there another plan for the property, where was this plan five, ten years ago. Is the Council ready to move on this different plan? Though it's not spelled out, their other concern is the green space near SCPA. Does anyone really know what a developer would do if they bought this building? I doubt someone would come in and tear down the school and pave over it. That place has condos written all over it. Granted some green space may be loss to parking but I would hold the developer to the fire not CPS. This just smells of "I don't want change in my backyard, everything is just fine, Thank You"
October 5, 200519 yr I agree that the crime angle is weak. There is high crime all over OTR, including the Rothenberg area and the current Washington Park School site, as well as the new proposed SCPA site, south of Washington Park. However, Vine Street is a commercial street, with much higher traffic than the other sites, and I don't think it is the right place for a school. You have to remember that many of the people in this group not only live in OTR, but are teachers/graduates of SCPA and send their children to these schools. Also, demolishing the 22 buildings, that for the most part were occupied as housing last year is a problem with me. Sometimes it seems like we have an infinite number of these buildings down here, but so many are demolished every year, that the historic/urban feel of OTR is really destroyed in many blocks. The old Woodward will probably become condos. Fine, but it really makes a kick ass school, and I don't really see the logic of selling it at a low price before the end of the year, only to buy more expensive land a few blocks away for a new school. Also, the park that is just north of old Woodward was once a city park, that was given to CPS in the 70's. It is a vital park in OTR, and to sell it for a spot for new construction or a parking lot is a big mistake. I want lots of change in my backyard. I just don't want historic urban structures replaced with anti-urban dryvit ones.
October 6, 200519 yr The bad element would move on, would it not Hardly.. The dealers were still in opertation DURING school hours when the rothenburg school was still operating, not to mention after hours and during summer break! The buildings being rehabbed as market rate is a better way to get the bad element to move on, hopefully all the way out to west chester :-P
October 8, 200519 yr I agree that the crime angle is weak. There is high crime all over OTR, including the Rothenberg area and the current Washington Park School site, as well as the new proposed SCPA site, south of Washington Park. Actually the police dept. released a report showing that calls to the police for various issues (which is a good proxy for level of crime) were something like 6 times higher at Mercer Commons than Washington Park and (I think) Rothenberg
October 8, 200519 yr Actually the police dept. released a report showing that calls to the police for various issues (which is a good proxy for level of crime) were something like 6 times higher at Mercer Commons than Washington Park and (I think) Rothenberg Yep! DISORDER CALLS FOR SERVICE REPORTING AREAS 22 AND 28 JAN-JUL 2005 RA 22 HAD 265 CALLS RA 28 HAD 81 CALLS
October 8, 200519 yr The 2nd MAP represents VIOLENCE CALLS FOR SERVICE REPORTING AREAS 22 AND 28 JAN-JUL 2005 RA 22 HAD 222 CALLS RA 28 HAD 90 CALLS The 3rd map represents DRUG CALLS FOR SERVICE REPORTING AREAS 22 AND 28 JAN-JUL 2005 RA HAD 122 CALLS RA 28 HAD 57 CALLS.
October 8, 200519 yr What gets me the most on this issue I probably said this 100 times.. :wink: is the Wholesale demolition of an entire block of 19th century historic residential buildings (This happening in this countries largest historic district of intact 19th century residential neighborhood. This will decimate the integrity of this historic district)
October 11, 200519 yr 3CDC banking property in OTR By Marla Matzer Rose Enquirer staff writer The Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. has spent more than $8 million in Over-the-Rhine over the past year, the private, nonprofit group said Monday in its annual report. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051010/BIZ01/310100008
October 13, 200519 yr I have some real fears about what "Music Hall Square" could end up being...I'm really not a 3CDC hater, and don't want to be labelled as such, but WHY a 750 space garage ADJACENT to Music Hall?? It's a rhetorical question really, I mean I know what they would say the answer is...but I guess I just don't quite believe that that much parking is necessary to make development in OTR financially viable. I know they have their market studies, but places like Park Slope in New York and Beacon Hill in Boston should demonstrate that you don't HAVE to accommodate people's cars with garages in order to draw them to a place. And if they think they need 750 spaces, then what kind of retail development are they planning on? I can only fear it'll be some newfangled thing with chain stores.
October 13, 200519 yr I'm just afraid those of us who love OTR could be in for some real shocks and disappointments in the near future...22 demolitions at Mercer Commons, a poorly designed school in their place, 5 demos at 12th and Race, several along Pleasant, several next to Music Hall, ANOTHER giant parking garage, a new SCPA that doesn't fit in whatsoever with the other architecture, a new "Music Hall Square", and the list may go on.
October 13, 200519 yr There's a Music Hall Square rendering somewhere within this thread and also on 3CDC's site. I remember thinking it looked ridiculous.
October 13, 200519 yr I saw that, but didn't think that was anything. That is hideous and very strange. Where is the rest of music hall?
October 13, 200519 yr I think its hard to tell just by that rendering. I think it could look very modern and very cool next to such an old building like Music Hall.
October 14, 200519 yr I just can't tell what it's supposed to look like. It looks like a checkerboard turned on end with a gable on it for some reason. I know, I know...it's not "the" rendering but I'm just trying to figure out what they were trying to show.
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