Last I heard, they haven't gotten approval from the Historic Conservation Board yet (they were shot down the first time).  Similar to the Freestore case, just because they want to tear historic contributing buildings down to build something else doesn't mean it meets the standards set forth in the Conservation guidelines, no matter what backroom deals were struck.

Yeah they kinda lost their rationale for demo when they redesigned the building to not encroach on that corner.  Now they want to demo 4 partially rehabbed buildings to build a.... possible, maybe ampitheater? 

Last I heard, they haven't gotten approval from the Historic Conservation Board yet (they were shot down the first time).  Similar to the Freestore case, just because they want to tear historic contributing buildings down to build something else doesn't mean it meets the standards set forth in the Conservation guidelines, no matter what backroom deals were struck.

Yeah they kinda lost their rationale for demo when they redesigned the building to not encroach on that corner.  Now they want to demo 4 partially rehabbed buildings to build a.... possible, maybe ampitheater? 

 

Would it be possible to start some sort of public-private fund to move structurally sound, historic buildings that are "in the way" to nearby empty lots?  That way new development can commence, historic buildings aren't lost, and empty lots are filled in.  You could still demo buildings that are too far gone, only saving the "gems", so that the project doesn't get out of hand.  It seems like there are a lot of buildings that certain organizations want to get rid of, and a fair amount of empty lots in close proximity.  Couldn't we just reshuffle OTR? 

 

Yes, I realize how expensive and what a hassle this would be, particularly because the power lines aren't buried.  Just thinking outside the box here. 

CPS has just agreed to transfer ownership of the old Washington Park Elementary site to the Park Board, with no reverter clause.  The plans for the underground parking are now back on the table.

That's great to hear that an agreement has been reached.  Time to move forward with the Washington Park improvements.

That entire area with the new SCPA, along with music hall and the park, will be an awesome place.

Bravo!  :clap:

I wish I could be more optimisitic about Washington Park, but the main problem doesnt seem to be solved.  Walk by that park any day of the week and you will see several dozen street people sitting in the park drinking from beverages wrapped in brown paper bags. 

 

What is being done to move those people?

^They are putting in a high school across the street.  You think those bums really want to hang around a bunch of obnoxious teen-agers?

In my experience, I feel like you could, at any time, go into washington park or around the bar at the corner of 12th and Race, and probably arrest 95% of the people there.  Almost all of them are publicly intoxicated and/or doing or dealing drugs.  It's really unfortunate that such a great piece of land is in such decay.  I don't know one person would would go walk around over there or play in the park. 

 

I am also a little pessimistic about it.  I would LOVE the park to be usable. 

 

Here is a question -

Is there any law prohibiting the distribution/sale of alcohol within x number of yards from a public school?  I would love to see that bar on the corner go first.

Oh I've seen my fair share of "obnoxious teen-agers" in Washington Park before...they just had babies with them.  I don't think that SCPA is going to drive any of the bums away from the park because Taft Highschool is maybe 2 blocks from the park and that has had no impact.  You would think that a place like Music Hall would drive the homeless away, or cause the police to pay extra attention to the park, but it hasn't either.  I'm with BlackBengal on this one; unless something is done with the bums in that park, expanding it isn't going to do a damn thing.

^They are putting in a high school across the street.  You think those bums really want to hang around a bunch of obnoxious teen-agers?

 

Unfortunately, yes.

Here is a question -

Is there any law prohibiting the distribution/sale of alcohol within x number of yards from a public school?  I would love to see that bar on the corner go first.

 

I'm assuming that any pre-existing establishments would be grandfathered in, since they didn't choose to locate near a school, a school chose to locate near them.

I'm sure you are right, but honestly, that isn't a corner bar.  It's a place that harbors illegal activity...i see it every day

^Agreed.  I was just playing devil's advocate.  That place is more than an eye sore.

I guess I would dispute that.  The 1132 is a corner bar.  If it closed tommorrow, the park would still have winos.  People drinking in the park buy their drinks at Bangs or Krogers not at the 1132.

i'm not saying that they buy at 1132 and go outside to drink them, or that getting rid of 1132 would also get rid of the drinkers in the park.  What I am saying is that 1132 is not a positive part of the community.  Just look at their hours.  They service the lowest common denominator.

 

I think it's a shame that the park is used for what it's being used for.  I just dont see a way to change it unless the cops crack down on it, which won't happen because there is no jail room for these people and what they're doing probably does not constitute a serious enough offense anyway.

 

It's frustrating.  If I want to go sit in the park, can I?  Can I feel comfortable doing that? Can I walk my dog over there? A public park should be a public park, for everyone to use and feel safe.  Instead it is being used as the a day time homeless shelter for drunks and drug addicts.

 

 

It's frustrating.  If I want to go sit in the park, can I?  Can I feel comfortable doing that? Can I walk my dog over there? A public park should be a public park, for everyone to use and feel safe.  Instead it is being used as the a day time homeless shelter for drunks and drug addicts.

 

I think I've mentioned it before on this thread, but I've taken a nap in that park in the middle of the day and I wasn't even approached, let alone harassed (maybe I blended in).

 

I really think the problem will sort of resolve itself once more regular folks start living and hanging out around the Park.  The only thing the City might want to do to alieviate the problem is move the Drop In Center (which has also been discussed on this thread).

 

I think I've mentioned it before on this thread, but I've taken a nap in that park in the middle of the day and I wasn't even approached, let alone harassed (maybe I blended in).

 

 

Ballsy!!    It really could be a very nice park someday.  I'll agree there.

There is no way they're going to move the drop inn...right?

 

Its just an unfortunate waste of a otherwise promising park.  No "regular" people will go there so the problem cannot resolve itself.

No "regular" people will go there so the problem cannot resolve itself.

 

Well, the high is going to be right there across the street, and on Race between 12th and Central 3CDC has developed a number of those townhouses into condos as part of the Gateway project.  Plus people still go to the area all the time for events at Music Hall.  When the Streetcar finally begins rolling past, that's going to mount to a whole lot of new money invested in that area.  I think you are being overly pessimistic.

The park is basically a wino park.  Others use it, including myself, but it has a lot of people drinking cheap wine and peeing on the trees and yelling at each other when drunk.  There is broken glass and litter all over.  The place is a mess, but on the other hand, most (not all) of the people in the park are not really a physical threat to other visitors, and some of the hangers-on do kinda keep an eye on things.  I watch all the time as Music Hall patrons park on Elm and walk past the drinkers on the benches to the Symphony.  However, no one in formal wear would feel comfortable lingering to enjoy the fresh air. 

 

I don't think the drinkers will move-on just because the park is improved, or even because buildings nearby are rehabbed.  That is wishful thinking.

This seems like a classic example of why Jane Jacobs thought urban parks were problematic parts of the urban environment. It is interesting to contrast the three primary parks in downtown/OTR. I've rarely seen disorderly folks at the parks along the river. Lytle Park is hit and miss though generally free of disorderly folks, while Washington Park is clearly dominated by them.

 

The other problem is that any vigorous enforcement measures in the park until the neighborhood is entirely gentrified will likely bring out the 'activists' that have been pretty quiet the last five years.

Yea most if not all of the people hangin' around the park all day just don't have anything better to do.  They aren't mean. However, renovating that park WILL make all the druggies, winos etc leave because if you take certain people out of their element, they naturally move to an area where it hasn't changed because that's all they know.  I graduated from SCPA back in '99 and we had outdoor lunch periods all through highschool.  The new SCPA will most likely use some of the new park for just that and when you mix druggies and winos with school children and teachers...something has to give and I have a feeling the school will win;)

^ Actually, there's an idea in there.  Have the school offer free lunch to cops, provided that they eat lunch on the grounds or in the park.  This would serve the primary purpose of assuaging the fear of parents, by keeping a watchful eye on their children during their lunch and recess near/in the park, but it would also serve to clear the park of anyone who might not want to spend a lot of time around the police.  Anyone with nothing to fear is more than welcome to hang out all day long.

interesting idea

 

 

I think you all are onto something here!

I have to believe there will be an increased police presence in the area when the shcool opens anyway. 

great

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080530/NEWS0107/305300056/

$20 says, they are not FROM (addressed) to OTR!

$50 says that plate reads Kentucky

$50 says that plate reads Kentucky

 

Notice the photo was cropped. Not a "blur", but a crop.

I have to believe there will be an increased police presence in the area when the shcool opens anyway. 

was that a typo or vaguely anti Semitic?

What? - It's a typo

 

I'm confused.

^I'm assuming it was an attempt at humor.  Schul is the yiddish term for going to temple.

which is sometimes transliterated as shool

Nope, that was an honest to god typo.

 

Learn something new every day.

Washington Park expansion

http://www.urbancincy.com/2008/06/washington-park-expansion.html

^ Another check in the win column!

Deal on park expansion

BY LISA BERNARD-KUHN | [email protected]

 

OVER-THE-RHINE – An ongoing dispute between Cincinnati Public Schools and Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) has been settled, putting back in motion a $25 million plan that officials say is crucial to this neighborhood’s revitalization.

 

CPS announced today that it had agreed to transfer the title for the former Washington Park School site to the Cincinnati Parks Board.

I'm proud to say that UrbanCincy beat the Enquirer to the punch on this story.

Nope, that was an honest to god typo.

 

Learn something new every day.

 

I thought it was, I was just kidding

>kidding

 

Showing off?

 

>I'm proud to say

 

Check back around page 7 on this thread.  I was the one who came up with the idea for an underground garage here, they should name it after me. 

 

 

>I'm proud to say

 

Check back around page 7 on this thread.  I was the one who came up with the idea for an underground garage here, they should name it after me.

 

I'm not taking credit for the idea, just reporting the news story that came out today regarding the agreement between CPS and 3CDC.

I see that they are "expanding" the park.  Does that include a redesign of the existing space?  Does this include some sort of plan to make it usuable for other people outside of the current users?

 

 

If there is a dog park installed we will be there quite often.

I think that since Over The Rhine is so massive, we should bring back "The Northern Liberties" to the area north of Liberty Street (formerly Western Row).  I know that it's all under similar historic status, but I think it might help market the area as a whole more effectively.

 

It's much more evident where the redevelopment is taking place if you break it up into Over-The-Rhine and The Northern Liberties.  I think there's still more reluctance to fix up properties up there.  My prediction is that it'll be at least another five years until the Vine/McMicken/Findlay intersection gets a a full facelift.  The streetcar could add some energy to that.

The YMCA is seeking an RFEI (Request for Expressions of Interest) from developers for their properties on Elm Street and Central Parkway to be redeveloped as a mixed-use project with an expanded or relocated YMCA health and fitness center.

 

They have written a good plan, which includes concerns for:

 

-Creating a mixed-use real estate development project that that incorporates design elements consistent with the architecturally historic nature and cultural richness of the Over the Rhine neighborhood;

-Provide adequate and secure parking for both the YMCA members, as well as residents/visitors of the other building uses (residential, commercial, retail, hotel, etc.);

-Potential land assembly of adjacent land vacant land and buildings to create a catalytic development; and,

-Working with the community, City officials and other stakeholders to address concerns related to the ongoing operation of the homeless shelter Drop-In center at the corner of 12th and Elm Streets.

 

The residential portion of the YMCA building is currently vacant, and could be another good residential project to anchor that end of OTR.

 

I think that since Over The Rhine is so massive, we should bring back "The Northern Liberties" to the area north of Liberty Street (formerly Western Row).  I know that it's all under similar historic status, but I think it might help market the area as a whole more effectively.

 

It's much more evident where the redevelopment is taking place if you break it up into Over-The-Rhine and The Northern Liberties.  I think there's still more reluctance to fix up properties up there.  My prediction is that it'll be at least another five years until the Vine/McMicken/Findlay intersection gets a a full facelift.  The streetcar could add some energy to that.

 

How about the "Brewery District"?

Thanks for the update . . . that building could be a really valuable anchor for growth . . . there are a lot of parking lots in that corner of downtown.

This thread has been cleaned up and is now dedicated to Washington Park area projects like the park expansion, SCPA, Music Hall, and Memorial Hall.

 

You can now find all discussion about the Gateway Quarter HERE, and discussion about Mercer Commons HERE.