"Please Dear God tell me that the park will not remain open during construction. "

 

I'm with you, but I guess there were members of the community that were digging their heels in on this. I just hope it ends up being just a few people who are ultimately outvoted by the community as a whole.

 

They should sod a vacant lot and direct them there. Throw some benches in etc.  Much easier for cops to monitor as well

"Please Dear God tell me that the park will not remain open during construction. "

 

I'm with you, but I guess there were members of the community that were digging their heels in on this. I just hope it ends up being just a few people who are ultimately outvoted by the community as a whole.

 

They should sod a vacant lot and direct them there. Throw some benches in etc. Much easier for cops to monitor as well

 

Who are we talking about here? Vagrants and vagabonds?

"Please Dear God tell me that the park will not remain open during construction. "

 

I'm with you, but I guess there were members of the community that were digging their heels in on this. I just hope it ends up being just a few people who are ultimately outvoted by the community as a whole.

 

They should sod a vacant lot and direct them there. Throw some benches in etc. Much easier for cops to monitor as well

 

Who are we talking about here? Vagrants and vagabonds?

For real..do they actually think they have the right to be pissed?

A water jet room is just an area where vertical jets of water periodically or continuously enclose a small space.

 

And you know the bums won't be sleeping on it.

 

...but possibly using it as a bidet?  Sorry for the image.  I had to get that out of my brain!

According to the Business Courier, 3CDC is offering support to the Drop Inn Center with relocation assistance.  While I really despise what that organization has done to our neighborhood, I do hope they can find a place for a "shelter of last resort" that supports the homeless community without destroying another residential/commercial neighborhood.

The Drop Inn Center has it pretty good right now. They don't have to move. The neighborhood is getting better all around them. The park that is their de facto overflow space is about to get upgraded.

3CDC will help Cincinnati relocate Drop Inn Center

 

The Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. has offered to help move the region’s largest homeless shelter away from the tens of millions of dollars of redevelopment occurring around its location in Over-the-Rhine.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/05/17/story1.html?b=1274068800^3350401#

^wonderful.  Please make it happen. Not knowing much about the Drop Inn Center, I am suprised that they don't have a seperate facility for the older homeless men (who presumably have chosen the homeless lifestyle), and the younger families and women that are trying to get back on their feet.

 

All of those "I "heart" OTR" stickers should be changed to "I "heart" 3CDC." That group has been a godsend to Cincinnati.

I wouldn't get too comfortable yet.  Notice they don't say where they want to move it too, and an associated article mentions potential sites in other parts of Over-the-Rhine.  3CDC and the city have not proven to be truly looking long term with projects such as this, and could spend millions of dollars to move the Drop Inn a few blocks to the north, which will not solve a damn thing.  This already occurred when CPS and the city wasted half a million dollars to move the transitional housing from 12th and Elm four blocks to the north on East McMicken, and with 3CDC spending millions on the permanent supportive housing on Odeon Street.

 

"Qualls said the plan is to keep the facility in Over-the-Rhine, but no specific site has been identified yet."

 

^ True but the quotes from Qualls strongly indicate that they are considering breaking up the facility to cater to different users. The concentration of poverty is more of a problem than poverty itself. It could be responsibly broken up.

 

To underscore how big of a threat homeless men actually are (or are percieved to be even in the social services community) I used to volunteer at the Orlando, FL center. It was mainly for grown men, with outdoor lockers and shelters for the frequent rainstorms. We served breakfast in two phases. Women and children came in from other parts of the neighborhood, the doors were deadbolted, and they ate. They were cleared out the opposite doors and given time to disperse, then the grown men were led in.

 

Based on the experience I had working with that organization, I can only imagine what CPS and SCPA think about having the DIC moved.

There's nothing wrong with supportive housing. It's all about the mix and how it's managed.

The Drop Inn Center has it pretty good right now. They don't have to move. The neighborhood is getting better all around them. The park that is their de facto overflow space is about to get upgraded.

 

I've met many homeless people who I have enjoyed talking to, who add to an interesting street scene, and who have a real sense of pride.  Still, if I were the Drop Inn Center board, I'm not sure I would be welcoming the new park, the new school, the new Music Hall, and the new residents - and thinking that "we have it pretty good."  The small percentage of DIC users who do and will cause trouble, even though its mostly nuisance calls, will cause grief for the DIC in proportion to the amount of new development.  I think it will simply become untenable for them to stay, and if they are smart they will move to a better long term location before their reputation and support is seriously damaged.

I understand the need for the DIC, and I actually support the permanent supportive housing model, but the bigger issue is not being addressed.  OTR and the West End are not just the city's, not just the county's, but the region's social service center.  Moving a facility a few blocks away just reshuffles the pieces on the board, and does not substantially change the model.  Even if they are successful in improving some aspects of the operation, the impact of all of these services (DIC, City Gospel, Odeon, VOA, soup kitchens, transitional housing, FreeStore, CityLink) will still overwhelm the neighborhood and not provide a truly supportive environment for those needing assistance.

 

The issue also ignores a critical issue:  If the DIC isn't good enough to be located near SCPA, why was it acceptable to be located near Washington Park Elementary for decades?  If it is relocated to where some are thinking it will (NuBlend/Hudepohl on East McMicken) why will it be acceptable to be located near the renovated Rothenberg Elementary?

The Drop Inn Center has it pretty good right now. They don't have to move. The neighborhood is getting better all around them. The park that is their de facto overflow space is about to get upgraded.

 

I've met many homeless people who I have enjoyed talking to, who add to an interesting street scene, and who have a real sense of pride. Still, if I were the Drop Inn Center board, I'm not sure I would be welcoming the new park, the new school, the new Music Hall, and the new residents - and thinking that "we have it pretty good." The small percentage of DIC users who do and will cause trouble, even though its mostly nuisance calls, will cause grief for the DIC in proportion to the amount of new development. I think it will simply become untenable for them to stay, and if they are smart they will move to a better long term location before their reputation and support is seriously damaged.

 

I think you are probably right, and apparently so do people on city council.

"Please Dear God tell me that the park will not remain open during construction. "

 

I'm with you, but I guess there were members of the community that were digging their heels in on this.  I just hope it ends up being just a few people who are ultimately outvoted by the community as a whole.

 

They should sod a vacant lot and direct them there. Throw some benches in etc.  Much easier for cops to monitor as well

 

Who are we talking about here? Vagrants and vagabonds?

For real..do they actually think they have the right to be pissed?

 

I was wondering who was getting "directed to vacant lot with benches."  Apparently, everyone was talking about homeless people.  I wasn't absolutely sure but from what I've gathered from reading things on here about Washington Park is that it has an issue with homeless squatters.  I don't know what bigredmachine was getting at but I think my question about "who" has been answered.

 

Sounds like the DIC will be moved but does anyone have any idea where?

Scrabble, the DIC is basically a homeless shelter. It's on the east side of Washington Park, so WP basically serves as the front lawn. Consequently, WP is a major hangout for the homeless community in Cincy. Lots of beer drinking, drunken arguments, napping, panhandling, and just general hanging out goes on there, among the homeless population.

It is lovely cycle:  Homeless people drink in the park from dawn to dusk (perhaps longer), receive food and treatment from DIC and area shelters, and then spend the early morning hours every day in the shift bar across the street.  It is perfectly convenient!  Your average middle-aged able bodied homeless person can consistently maintain his buzz at a constant level for weeks at a time without leaving a three block radius.  Brilliant!

 

(I know I am over generalizing and that this characterization is not accurate as to all people receiving services from DIC, etc.  So there is no need to lecture, but there is a significant contingent of people who do fall into this category.  In case you are wondering, I live one block from the park and often walk my dog through it (despite its chicken bones and Styrofoam food containers scattered everywhere).  I know the area pretty well.)

I understand the need for the DIC, and I actually support the permanent supportive housing model, but the bigger issue is not being addressed.  OTR and the West End are not just the city's, not just the county's, but the region's social service center.  Moving a facility a few blocks away just reshuffles the pieces on the board, and does not substantially change the model.  Even if they are successful in improving some aspects of the operation, the impact of all of these services (DIC, City Gospel, Odeon, VOA, soup kitchens, transitional housing, FreeStore, CityLink) will still overwhelm the neighborhood and not provide a truly supportive environment for those needing assistance.

 

The issue also ignores a critical issue:  If the DIC isn't good enough to be located near SCPA, why was it acceptable to be located near Washington Park Elementary for decades?  If it is relocated to where some are thinking it will (NuBlend/Hudepohl on East McMicken) why will it be acceptable to be located near the renovated Rothenberg Elementary?

 

I hope it isn't the latter. That will be a recipe for disaster. I'm having trouble picturing DIC moving anywhere far from its present location; the Freestore Foodbank and other amenities are nearby, and if DIC moves, then that could add a transportation element that DIC doesn't want to involve itself with.

 

I wonder what this will do to the sex offender registry. There are countless sex offenders that put their address either at DIC, or at some location nearby (e.g. Washington Park, dumpster in alley, et. al.), and the law currently states that sex offenders can't live within 1,000 feet, and I'm not for sure that law existed when the Washington Park school was in operation.

 

As part of the 1997 Federal Crime Act, the "Jacob Wetterling Act" required states to come up with guidelines/laws/regulations on sex offenders. Washington Park didn't close until 2006?

This was a really positive meeting. Outside of the anti-Washington Park redevelopment banter, it looks like that the majority of the public are behind this project. It also appears that some, or all of the financing for the renovation will be generated from parking revenue, similar to Fountain Square. Whether that can occur here (and not in downtown, as has happened), is a big if. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this.

 

3CDC lays out plans for Washington Park

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn, Cincinnati Enquirer, May 20, 2010

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - If all goes as planned, construction will begin on a $46 million makeover of historic Washington Park by August, according to Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC).

 

The nonprofit developer, along with other project partners, hosted a public meeting Thursday evening to unveil plans for the park's redesign and a 450-space underground parking garage that will be built off of 14th Street.

 

Roughly 130 attendees packed into a meeting space at the Art Academy on Jackson Street to listen to the update provided by Stephen Leeper, president and CEO of 3CDC.

This is outstanding.  But, for the naysayers, all cities have these morons.  These people like to see failure because they've been doused in it their entire lives and can't stand change or other's enjoying success.  Good thing our city council is ignoring these people eh? CASINO, WASHINGTON PARK, THE BANKS, QCS, CAPS, "wiplash sound!" lol

While at a flee market today i bought an antique from Olde Good Things. They are an architectural salvage store with locations throughout the country. I got on their website and saw this http://www.ogtstore.com/garden-antiques/antique-statues-fountains/spectacular-fountain-from-fairmount-park-in-philadelphia.html. I've always thought that Washington Park was missing the historic fountain feature to give it the charm that many historic parks on the East Coast and historic south have. This is a beautiful historic fountain with a great history, and would really look great with Music Hall in the background. Any thoughts?

That fountain is awesome.  Looks like it needs some restoration work, but I'd love to see something like that in the park.

Someone buy it and donate it to the city with the stipulation that it be installed in Washington Park centered in front of the entrance to Music Hall.

 

;-)

^That's quite a find! Hmmm...isn't there a convo around here somewhere about what to put in the FWW cap parks?

 

 

^I was just thinking that!  There would be three caps, right?  So imagine this in the center of the middle cap, with formal gardens and symmetric pathways radiating out from it.  That could be very cool.

I still think that they're going about Washington Park all wrong. The park reminds me of Washburn Fair Oaks Park in Minneapolis, which is also a full-block public park. It's located across from the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, which is in front of Minneapolis College of Art and Design. The housing stock around it is large single-family homes, but they're tightly packed together. 

 

I realize the challenge with Washington Park and its proximity to social service organizations and homeless shelters, but even an overhaul of the park isn't going to solve that, I believe. It's a good park that is not somehow inadequate for today's generation or today's urban desires. I absolutely hate that they're redoing the park, that 3CDC is in charge of redesign and programming, and that there's going to be an underground parking garage. A park that should be a refuge in that part of OTR is just going to be a zoo filled with people (and dogs).

 

I don't see Cincinnati Parks putting in a lot of time and labor into the park. Some parks are in need of more attention than others, in terms of litter, upkeep, and beautification.  Safety is another. Police should be near the area at all times, but I think that's more an issue with District 1 being too large an area. (They claim that 24-hour police coverage in The Banks isn't going to impact District 1's ability to serve, but I don't buy it.)

 

I'd rather see policy, policing, and beautification be used as solutions, rather than multi-million dollar renovations and 21st Century thinking of money changing everything.  Yes, it worked for OTR and it's building stock. But a park is a different story. Don't tell me that a safe and beautiful Washington Park would not be appeal to new residents and visitors.

A park that should be a refuge in that part of OTR is just going to be a zoo filled with people (and dogs).

 

Would you be mad at me if I said I was 100% behind this idea?

No, I'm not going to be mad about someone haven't a different point of view.

A park that should be a refuge in that part of OTR is just going to be a zoo filled with people (and dogs).

 

Would you be mad at me if I said I was 100% behind this idea?

 

I agree with Civvik.  If Washington Park overflows with people and dogs as a result of the renovation, I would characterize the project as a wild success.  I guess, I don't understand Blue Line's objection.  I believe what Blue Line is saying is that Washington Park should not be a destination, but rather a clean and well-policed green oasis for local residents -- local residents who, in and of themselves, lack sufficient density to justify the renovation on their own).  But I disagree with the premise that the park cannot serve both as a green oasis for neighborhood residents and a destination for others.  I could hit a baseball from my roof and have it land in Washington Park and I think 3CDC's plan is absolutely brilliant.  The thought of soon living a block and a half away from the proposed park, complete with breathtaking water features, spacious lawns, state of the art dog park, and outdoor concert facilities, makes me absolutely giddy. 

Blueline, the multi-million dolar renovation IS part of the beautification process for the park.  Walk down there this week in the evening, stand there and tell us it doesn't ned a renovation.  That all the drunks and druggies and bums will simply go away if more cops show up.  Truth is, Cincinnatians are expecting change across the board with OTR and won;t live or visit it unless every inch is accounted for.  A brand new park will bring brand new people and that's what it's setting out to do.

I think the main thing he objects to is all the programming. My interpretation is he wants a serene, green space, minus the hustle and bustle created by a big playground, water playground, event lawns, dog park, etc. He'd like a more natural environment as an oasis of nature and privacy in a dense part of the city.

^ We will always have Ault Park and Eden Park for that.

 

I agree with you, but I'd rather trade a little classical ambiance for a lot more activity.

I prefer the action-oriented park for that location. It's not even big enough for a natural oasis, nor does it have appropriate geographical attributes. The area could really use the eyes on the street which the attractions should bring.

It reminds me

It reminds me of tompkins square in NYC. There needs to be a ranger/police person in the park at all hours. There needs to be a nice fence around it and it needs to close at midnight.

Without these things the park will always be a bum/crack head hangout.

 

Not necessarily. A ranger or a police substation might not be a bad idea for a while. But hopefully the future of the neighborhood won't require anyone to worry about the park being a homeless hotel.

Well, what you're hoping they protect is actually one of the main things on my mind, with regards to Washington Park.

 

I think the main thing he objects to is all the programming. My interpretation is he wants a serene, green space, minus the hustle and bustle created by a big playground, water playground, event lawns, dog park, etc. He'd like a more natural environment as an oasis of nature and privacy in a dense part of the city.

 

 

 

That's sort of what Burnett Woods is for. I just hope the final park design doesn't ruin the classical ambiance the area has. Classical 19th century parks seem to be becoming more and more of a rarity.

I'm kind of glad that there is an emphasis on it being an "Event Space" but at the same time, I'm kind of irked about them destroying some of the old houses to expand the park (something that's happened far too often in Cincy).  Cincinnati already has a ton of very large parks, something a bit smaller and more intimate might serve the area well.

They removed the crappy old school, not any houses.

There were houses at this site... ...50 years ago!

 

http://www.citykin.com/2007/12/washington-park-school-historic-photo.html

Neilworms, a small intimate park definitely wouldn't serve the public well because they're planning on a much grander scale.  Plus you have the new SCPA right behind it.  1500 kids, small park...no.

I said it several years ago but I'll say it again...giving the Drop-in-Shelter the boot and the park redevelopment makes moving Oktoberfest to Over-the-Rhine much more feasible.  An event stretching from Washington Park north to Findlay Market on Race and Elm would become a much less mindless affair.  Bands could set up on the Findlay Market parking lot, marking the north end of the festival.  Also that church with the burnt-out steeple could be renovated as a venue. 

 

I can hear the complaints already that the streetcars traveling through the area will present a safety problem.  They can just go slow and honk at the drunks to get the hell out the way. 

 

 

 

Just put a cattle catcher on front of the streetcar during Oktoberfest. That would solve many problems at once.

Washington Park project approved by planners

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Courier Senior Staff Reporter

Send this story to a friend

   

 

Read more: Washington Park project approved by planners - Business Courier of Cincinnati

 

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/06/14/daily53.html

A solution for some of the issues brought up by neighborhood residents about the new park design:

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/06/urban-basketball-courts-offer-tremendous-opportunity-within-cities/

big news supposed to be coming this week for Main Street....also the Lucky Step space.  See what happens Friday.

^What a tease! Can you give a hint?

There is a banner in the window now, but I forgot to write it down and look it up.

It's a one night art showing tonight in the Lucky Step space

Ah, okay. Thanks for that.

Plan set for Washington Park financing

Business Courier of Cincinnati

 

 

The city of Cincinnati would contribute $14 million toward the $47.4 million redevelopment of Washington Park under a contract submitted for City Council’s approval Wednesday.

 

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/06/21/daily40.html