July 1, 201014 yr I cant believe how many are actually advocating construction of an above ground parking garage on this page! sometimes i think cincinnatians like to whine and complain about everything. I call it Phil Burress syndrome.......news flash: 3CDC has been the savior of our city. Garages are deathknells for vibrant city centers. (tower place garage@4thSt.) Washington is oldest, largest, and most important urban park downtown. DO IT RIGHT!!! Kudos to City Hall for finally getting this vision realized!!!! :D :clap: 8-) From Sherman: Removed derogatory comment.
July 29, 201014 yr Well I think this article shows a "real" groundbreaking in August unlikely, but it is pretty cool nonetheless that they are getting close to picking a general contractor. Hopefully earth is being moved by September: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100728/BIZ01/7290369/Contractors-vie-for-park-work Get ready for a year of complaints about how 3CDC is "unfair" from losing bidders. Also, I'm not sure this was posted yet but a very detailed powerpoint is on 3CDC's site, with a lot of interesting information about past projects and spending: http://www.3cdc.org/images/editor/WP%20-%20Council%20Finance%20-%20June%2028%202010.pdf
July 30, 201014 yr Death of the homeless woman conversation has been moved to Current Events. This forum section is for projects and construction. Do not post coincidentally related news stories in this section, as it leads to off-topic discussion.
August 11, 201014 yr <a href="http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100811/NEWS01/8120307/Homeless-shelter-cans-director">Pat Clifford Fired as Director of the Drop Inn Center</a> Pat Clifford, 42, confirmed this morning he was fired Monday night after 12 years as executive director of the Drop Inn Center homeless shelter. Clifford said he was not told the reason for his dismissal. The Drop Inn Center, on 12th Street in Over-the-Rhine, is the region's largest homeless shelter. ...One view of the firing is that Clifford represented too much of the old guard and unwilling to accept changes in how the city provides for its homeless. He was hired in January 1998 as executive director to replace Drop Inn Center founder Buddy Gray, who was shot and killed by a mentally ill man in November 1996. My guess is that 3CDC has been lobbying the Drop Inn Center Board Members to take this action because Pat was too difficult to deal with.
August 11, 201014 yr ^Hey you gotta do what you gotta do. If you can't accept change then that's a shame because downtown is changing fast and leaving naysayers in the dust.
August 11, 201014 yr ^Hey you gotta do what you gotta do. If you can't accept change then that's a shame because downtown is changing fast and leaving naysayers in the dust. That's right. How easy will it be to move DIC? What role does the city play in its administration?
August 12, 201014 yr I don't know if they have any real control over it.. although one would think it would be simple enough to change the zoning.. it seems odd to me that that kind of transient housing is allowed there, anyways.
August 12, 201014 yr ^ You can't force out an existing business/institution by changing the zoning of a property, as it would be allowed to continue as an existing non-conforming use. In addition, the majority of zoning districts including the CC's which is predominent in OTR allow these types of operations. There is a proposed change to the zoning code that would better regulate these types of institutions, but it has been fought tooth and nail by the social service industry. As an aside, the legal ruling on the CityLink case basically threw the zoning code out the window and stated that you could put a "community" center anywhere, even Fountain Square.
August 12, 201014 yr There is a proposed change to the zoning code that would better regulate these types of institutions, but it has been fought tooth and nail by the social service industry. I thought the new zoning code was already in place. Any idea where in the process the new code provisions are? "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
August 12, 201014 yr What is the status of the proposal to build a new drop-in center away from Washington Park?
August 12, 201014 yr These were additional changes dealing directly with social service agencies. They were developed by working groups consisting of community members, social service agencies, and city planning staff over the summer of 2008. Hearings were held in early 2009, where the social service agencies put up a strong opposition, and have been tabled since. I know the planning department and many community members are still in favor of them, but there doesn't seem to be the political will to put them into place. Many churches fought against them because they incorrectly thought it would limit the use of their property. In a nutshell, the proposed zoning changes do the following: - define community and the various types of social service uses in more fine grained detail. - establish limits on the size and location of new or expanded social service uses. - all new social service uses will require a "good neighbor" or control plan to proactively deal with crime, litter, noise, etc. All existing uses will be grandfathered in, but will not be allowed to move or expand without conforming to the new code. No religious assembly use will be regulated, other than the portion of their activities that meet the definition of social service uses in the code. A copy of the proposed changes are available here (this might have changed slightly in the meantime): Proposed Text Amendments for Social Service Uses 2-10-09
August 12, 201014 yr What is the status of the proposal to build a new drop-in center away from Washington Park? I've heard various rumors over the past year or two, but nothing concrete has ever come out. At the moment, there is no specific plan that has been presented (or leaked), other than a wish to move them.
August 16, 201014 yr Washington Park renovation work to start Tuesday Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Lucy May Courier Senior Staff Reporter Site preparation work will start soon on the $47.3 million face lift for Washington Park in Over-the-Rhine. On Tuesday, a fence will be erected around the two-acre section of the park where the pool and playground are now located. The rest of the park, which includes a parking lot along 14th Street, a restroom building and the park’s entire southern portion, will remain open and accessible, according to the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., or 3CDC, which is working with the Cincinnati Park Board to renovate and expand the park. http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/08/16/daily9.html
August 31, 201014 yr Washington Park excavation uncovers remains By Mark Curnutte • [email protected] • August 30, 2010 OVER-THE-RHINE - Early excavation work in the middle third of Washington Park has yielded 23 grave shafts, 15 of which have contained remains that predate the middle of the 19th century. The park, home of religious-based cemeteries in the early 1800s, is undergoing a $47 million redevelopment that will feature a parking garage with below-surface ramps and an interactive water feature and children's play area. Those elements require archeological work to extract the human remains. Work on the remainder of the park will not go deeper than 5 feet or require the developer to disturb gravesites. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100830/NEWS01/8310356/1055/NEWS/Washington-Park-site-uncovers-remains
August 31, 201014 yr To quote Craig T... they moved the headstones but you didn't move the graaavvvveesssssssssss.....
August 31, 201014 yr From today's Soapbox http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/0831washingtonparksoapdish.aspx
September 2, 201014 yr I would much rather deal with ghosts in Washington Park than the current crowd that terrorizes the place.
September 8, 201014 yr More graves excavated in Washington Park By Mark Curnutte • [email protected] • September 7, 2010 http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100907/NEWS01/9080331/
September 8, 201014 yr More graves excavated in Washington Park By Mark Curnutte • [email protected] • September 7, 2010 http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100907/NEWS01/9080331/ Lol, this is probably my favorite line of Enquirer comments ever: cinciblog wrote: Replying to cinciblog: Replying to char51: to destube the dead, is unholly. may there spirtis come back for there rest has been distrub. polterguist here they come. Does this mean it goes against Christmas? TRANSLATION TO ENGLISH - to disturb the dead, is unholy. may their spirts come back for their rest has been distrubed. poltergeist... here they come 9/8/2010 8:48:40 AM
September 10, 201014 yr I would much rather deal with ghosts in Washington Park than the current crowd that terrorizes the place. Must our language suffer from phantom inflation as well? I'm speaking about your over the top use of the word "terrorizes".
September 21, 201014 yr Music Hall renovators outline 3 goals By Janelle Gelfand • [email protected] • September 20, 2010 http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20100920/ENT/9210344/ The entire front of the hall's first floor along Elm Street facing Washington Park, from the North Wing to the South Wing, will become public space - with amenities such as gallery space, shops, cafes, bars, a patron's lounge and box offices. Two new halls will be created in the North Wing to be used as rehearsal space and also as alternative performance halls, able to present experimental or small productions in a more intimate setting. Music Hall's myriad bricked-up windows will be reopened to restore the landmark as a brilliant beacon in the city. I am so on board with this one!
September 21, 201014 yr Music Hall renovations sound great, although there is no mention of funding because...well....they have a long way to go on that. One other thought, however, they plan to close Music Hall in May 2012 for renovations. That means it will not be used at all for the World Choir Games which are July 2012. This is somewhat surprising. Apparently the other remaining venues, including Aronoff, SCPA, etc.) will be sufficient (although that is an aggressive timeline if they're counting on the Emery being in play).
September 21, 201014 yr Reading the article, there are there things I'm looking forward to from this renovation: 1. The unbricking of the windows, 2. The 'public space' in the front of the house, and 3. the new performance spaces in the north wing.
September 21, 201014 yr Music Hall renovations sound great, although there is no mention of funding because...well....they have a long way to go on that. One other thought, however, they plan to close Music Hall in May 2012 for renovations. That means it will not be used at all for the World Choir Games which are July 2012. This is somewhat surprising. Apparently the other remaining venues, including Aronoff, SCPA, etc.) will be sufficient (although that is an aggressive timeline if they're counting on the Emery being in play). The article is misleading. Music Hall, the Aronoff and SCPA will all be used for the World Choir Games.
September 21, 201014 yr Wow, those windows are going to do wonders. I'm really concerned about the World Choir Games though. Isn't that venue one of the reasons they chose Cincinnati? Potentially Choir Games could be happening with Music Hall, the Streetcar (Elm St), and Washington Park under construction. While I think it's exciting for all of us to be seeing this happening concurrently, it'll give the visitors a whole heck of a lot of piles of mud and construction materials to looks at. I hope that the parking structure and event lawn will take priority over the South end of Washington Park for that renovation, and that Music Hall will focus on interior renovations before the facade so that it won't be covered in scaffolding in July 2012. Any way you slice it though...this is one hell of an exciting time for OTR.
September 21, 201014 yr Wow, those windows are going to do wonders. I'm really concerned about the World Choir Games though. Isn't that venue one of the reasons they chose Cincinnati? Potentially Choir Games could be happening with Music Hall, the Streetcar (Elm St), and Washington Park under construction. While I think it's exciting for all of us to be seeing this happening concurrently, it'll give the visitors a whole heck of a lot of piles of mud and construction materials to looks at. I hope that the parking structure and event lawn will take priority over the South end of Washington Park for that renovation, and that Music Hall will focus on interior renovations before the facade so that it won't be covered in scaffolding in July 2012. Any way you slice it though...this is one hell of an exciting time for OTR. The park renovation should conclude by the end of 2011 with grand opening festivities in the Spring. The streetcar is also optimistically hoping for Q2 of 2012.
September 21, 201014 yr I agree about the windows, this is the part I am most excited about! Me too! I hate seeing gorgeous buildings with their windows bricked up, seems senseless to me (though I'm guessing filling in windows was probably done for energy efficiency reasons at some point in history)
December 9, 201014 yr There was a rare "good"' demolition going on in the other side of OTR today (coincidentally both being done by Turner) -- the pool building was gone and they were looking about ready to start on the pool itself. They were also transplanting some trees that are quite large. There a quite a few big trees that look like they will have to come out, which is sad but it will all be for the best I guess.
December 9, 201014 yr They took 8 smallish trees and transplanted them to Eden Park yesterday. IMO they should have altered the design to save more of the larger trees. Not sure when those will come down.
December 9, 201014 yr There was a rare "good"' demolition going on in the other side of OTR today What do you mean by "good" and where were the demos?
December 10, 201014 yr The "good" demo is the poolhouse in Washington Park. It is a sign of progress on the park's renovation, so it's good! The other demo, I believe, is the one on McMicken, which you can find info on in the Cincinnati preservation thread. Also info here: http://victorianantiquitiesanddesign.blogspot.com/2010/12/preservationist-battle-to-save-otr.html
December 12, 201014 yr looks pretty cool to see a crane looming over OTR. It looks like pile driving and excavation are about to get going.
December 12, 201014 yr Cool! Thanks for the pics! I really think one of the most important things happening in OTR right now is the construction of the parking garage under Washington Park. As a planner and urbanist, I hate to admit that a parking garage is an economic boon to an area, but if we are serious about OTR becoming a destination, parking must be addressed. Convenient parking encourages visitors, and makes retailers more confident about entering the neighborhood. If we can add more parking in urban friendly ways such as this underground garage and the nicely designed Mercer Commons garage, I think it will really help future development in the neighborhood.
December 13, 201014 yr OTR is so sexy. I can't wait to roll around and get dirty on that event lawn. Do what now?
December 13, 201014 yr The trees are coming down right now. It is really something to see this space now with the pool house gone and the fence setup, it really is an expansive space. The hole they are about to dig will be massive, I wonder how many dump trucks it will take to haul it all out? And where it's all going?
December 13, 201014 yr OTR is so sexy. I can't wait to roll around and get dirty on that event lawn. Do what now? ;) Whatcha up to next summer?
December 13, 201014 yr The trees are coming down right now. It is really something to see this space now with the pool house gone and the fence setup, it really is an expansive space. The hole they are about to dig will be massive, I wonder how many dump trucks it will take to haul it all out? And where it's all going? Wait, are they replanting ALL of the trees eventually? Or are they just ripping out trees where the fountain and entrance ramps will go?
December 14, 201014 yr They are just taking out a few for the fountain and garage entrance. It looks like all of the ones the are marked in the fence area with red tape stay, and the rest go. My estimate is that they are taking about 1/2 of the trees north of the bandstand. On one of the OTR workgroup presentations this year they showed a tree plan-- many more will be replanted than are being removed. Since this park is going to last for many years (I hope), I think having the best design for the long term is more important than saving a few of the trees however stately they may be. Sad to watch, but I think its for the best in the end. This thread is really interesting, I went back and read a few of the first pages... this has come a long way and turned out awesome since the days of ripping down all the buildings at Mercer for the new Washington Park school and the huge above ground garage next to music hall. It has been a long time coming but I think it would be hard to have a better outcome than what we are getting now.
December 14, 201014 yr ^ Agreed!!! And yes, in the end there will be more trees at Washington park. Yes, many will be smaller, but in 20 years those smaller trees will be some big beautiful trees.
December 14, 201014 yr I don't think the trees around the north part will ever get as big as the oaks, poplar, linden, ginko etc on the south end because the garage will restrict their root size. I'm kinda picturing a lopsided finished product. I support this project as much as anyone else, but my wife was actually in tears today watching those 75 year old trees being cut down. Several could have been saved with minor design changes.
December 14, 201014 yr I wouldn't be so sure about the tree size. Most tree roots actually don't go all that far down, they spread out laterally. Yes some trees to grow a long tap root that goes way down, but most stay closer to the surface than you'd expect. Also keep in mind that trees don't have an infinite life span, so the ones they leave are that much closer to expiring anyway.
December 14, 201014 yr Well, the beautiful Linden tree (that they cut down about an hour ago) I would estimate to be 40-50 years old (just a guess), and in a park environment it maybe would keep going another 100 years and gain magnificent height. Meanwhile the new Locust and Pear trees that they are likely to plant above the garage will never approach the size the Linden was yesterday, if they even last 50. The cramped root structures lead to shorter lifespans. The Linden was sacrificed purely to keep the geometry pure for the fountain between the bandstand and the oval. American Lindens commonly grow anywhere from 40 to 50 feet, but are capable of growing to 100 to 150 feet at maturity. Their spread is typically about 2/3rds their height. These trees are notable for their large, dense canopy making them superb shade trees. Their branching begins relatively low to the ground on the multiple trunks that commonly form just above ground level. Medium-fast growers, they can be expected to grow 30 feet in 10 years. Their long-lived root systems support these trees for a lifespan of 100 to 150 years. While working at the Lincoln Home National Historic Site in 1993, workmen discovered that what had been thought to be two Lindens at about 50 years old were in fact old enough to have been there during the Civil War.
December 14, 201014 yr OTR is so sexy. I can't wait to roll around and get dirty on that event lawn. Do what now? ;) Whatcha up to next summer? haha. im sooo there. we can frolic.
December 14, 201014 yr Its a shame that any of the trees had to come down, but i think its important to recognize that their loss will result in a far greater gain. Make no mistake, tree preservation was the single most influencing factor in locating just about everything within the plan. Symmetry was sacrificed multiple times for trees, but It was deemed far too important to miss out on the opportunity to make a more formal gesture connecting the historic band stand to the new event lawn and stage. Knowing that, it is difficult to justify eliminating such an important design feature to avoid a tree that might fall down tomorrow. You could debate the importance of this connection or the way in which its executed, but the decision was made to do it this way. Its also important to consider that to protect each tree, there must be minimal disruption anywhere within its dripline so there is far less wiggle room than is perceived just standing in the park. If you look at an aerial, you can see how little room there actually is to work with given the current tree layout. Generally, new paving is confined to areas that are currently paved with blacktop, or areas outside of driplines to keep new disruption minimal
December 16, 201014 yr I mourn the trees but if they plant a mix of appropriate trees then I have no complaints. Pear is pretty in the spring and locusts are hardy, but they do not compare to other varieties like oak, hickory, redbud, etc. Does anyone know what types of trees are being planted and where? I would think since it's a Cincinnati Park it would be out there somewhere and someone would have given some thought to having a mix of trees (native, big, colorful, slow growing, fast growing, etc). What are the chances they'll have to excavate more graves once they start digging for the garage?
December 17, 201014 yr What are the chances they'll have to excavate more graves once they start digging for the garage? I'm just saying this on a hunch (with some knowledge of the history of the location), but my bet is near 100%.
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