I wish there was a way to get everyone to stay as far away from these nut jobs as possible.

If they don't get any attention we'll never see them again.

Maybe we could all gather for coffee on Fountain Square and do something really positve for the city by making it a non-news event.

When is the next public info meeting with 3cdc re: WASH PARK ? It will take place this June in memorial hall.

 

date anyone?

^I think they are proceeding with the park design without further public input.  I hope I am wrong, but it looks that way.

 

 

oops...

Mcmicken,  I am sure you guys call the POPO about the hookers at elm and mcmicken but EVERY time I go past there which is alot there is a girl. What is up with that?? 

 

Also, good news in Pendleton.  I noticed that the stucco on the old horse carriage building (at reading and sycamore)is being stripped, and the brick being repaired. I will get pics tommorow morning.  This totally changes the look of that area!! :-o

Mcmicken,  I am sure you guys call the POPO about the hookers at elm and mcmicken but EVERY time I go past there which is alot there is a girl. What is up with that??

 

It's a never-ending battle.  The police seem to think having more jail space will help with that, as the women's wing is overcrowded and any time they arrest one they are right back out on the street.  It's not the highest priority in their eyes.  Until there is a critical mass of residents who will call, harass, embarrass them and the johns it won't go away.

 

Also, good news in Pendleton.  I noticed that the stucco on the old horse carriage building (at reading and sycamore)is being stripped, and the brick being repaired. I will get pics tommorow morning.  This totally changes the look of that area!! :-o

 

Yeah, I saw that last week, it's awesome.  The building was the stable for the Gambrinus Stock Brewing Company, which operated from 1834 through 1919.  The rest of the brewery, which was at the SE corner of Sycamore and 12th to the north, was torn down around 1980 or so.  I spoke with one of the owners, and he said it was being renovated for a school.  I assume the one across the street in the Sun Building, but I will have to confirm.

 

Here's a pic from last week:

Well,  I have some bad news...  The Gambrinus Stock Brewing Company  is getting a fresh coat of STUCCO on the front. I really had my hopes up for this building.  It looks like it will be at least another 20+ years before somebody does it right..

^probably more like 40 years.  Sorry to hear that.

Well,  I have some bad news...  The Gambrinus Stock Brewing Company  is getting a fresh coat of STUCCO on the front. I really had my hopes up for this building.  It looks like it will be at least another 20+ years before somebody does it right..

 

Where is this?

Its on I believe 12th and Sycamore. Its a pretty awsome building i passed last friday and they were working on it. It's a shame they are going to restucco it

Where is this?

 

Technically it's on Reading, the little stretch north of Central Parkway east of Sycamore.  It's right behind the Sun building and next to the green building with the huge "Arnold S Levine Law Office" sign.

^Ahhh ... I thought that this was the building you guys were talking about. Yeah, the wifey and I were glad to see them working on it, but if they're putting stucco on it that is a shame.

Here is an email I just received through the DAAP, School of Planning Listserve (sorry but the attachment is too large to attach):

 

 

Attached is the packet to forward on for more information on the property at 1205 Elm Street.  Feel free to pass this info along to any interested parties.

 

While we started this venture we may have been slightly ahead of the curve, recent events have tremendously increased the focus on the Washington Park and surrounding area.  On the heels of the announcement that the drop-inc center moving, the SCPA breaking ground this September, the future Music Hall Garage, and the success of the Gateway quarter on the eastern edge of Washington Park, I think this is a great opportunity for potential investors to acquire this property.

 

Beyond the attractive price per square foot and the enormous potential on real estate value alone for the property, we think the church, while unique, could appeal to a broad range of investors & developers with uses ranging from a mixed-use retail development, to an entertainment venue as we envisioned, to an ancillary space supporting the SCPA.

 

Keep me posted on any questions or concerns that you or any interested parties may have.  We are happy to set up time to walk thru the space anytime in the future should anyone be interested.

 

Thanks again for the time and consideration.

 

Michael Golan

 

Urban Historic Properties

513.518.5705

While we started this venture we may have been slightly ahead of the curve, recent events have tremendously increased the focus on the Washington Park and surrounding area.  On the heels of the announcement that the drop-inc center moving, the SCPA breaking ground this September, the future Music Hall Garage, and the success of the Gateway quarter on the eastern edge of Washington Park, I think this is a great opportunity for potential investors to acquire this property.

 

Did I miss something?  I thought that the Drop Inn Center was hellbent on staying in the neighborhood.  I know that a few half way houses are closing to make way for the SCPA, but that is less than 5% of the total social services in the area.  The only real 'plan' to move a large number of social services out Washington park (CityLink) is dead.

 

Here is the last quote that I have heard of the Drop Inn Center:

""You can have a world-class arts school and a homeless shelter and co-exist.... It co-exists that way in other cities. We want to view it as a collaboration in and of itself." - Pat Clifford, Drop Inn Center's managing director.

LINK

 

Obviously, a Drop Inn Center move would be huge for the neighborhood.  Real Citizens could once again use Washington Park.

I vote for Eitght and State, baby!

8th & state don't need it.  Camp Washington, next to the future jail!

Queensgate by the mouth of the mill creek or next to MSD "spinney field LPH" would be the perfect place for the agency's move.

I agree...LPH doesn't need to get any extra problems at this point in time.  Queensgate should definitely be the dumping ground for this type of thing.

Would love to see 1205 Elm turned into a live music venue.  IMO, live music in Cincy kinda lags behind unless your into the super indie scene, punk or country.  I'm always going to Columbus, Indy, or Cleveland to see shows because so many artists I like skip Cincy.  It would be a nice setting too, the suits and "older" people have their Music Hall, and just a few doors down the younger and energetic crowd can have their temple of music. 

 

1205 as it stands now:

 

 

 

 

Here's a couple examples of churches turned live music venues.  The first is Paradiso in Amsterdam.  It's one of the more famous music venues in the world.  There is also a cafe in the basement.  Very cool place.  The second is Clutch Cargo's in Detroit.  Another church turned music venue/club.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone got an extra $250,000 for the building?

I would love to see it turn into that than sit vacant!   

How do the acoustics sound in an old church like that?

How do the acoustics sound in an old church like that?

 

I would think pretty good.  I thought most churches were designed for great accoustics? 

Good Point!

While we started this venture we may have been slightly ahead of the curve, recent events have tremendously increased the focus on the Washington Park and surrounding area.  On the heels of the announcement that the drop-inc center moving, the SCPA breaking ground this September, the future Music Hall Garage, and the success of the Gateway quarter on the eastern edge of Washington Park, I think this is a great opportunity for potential investors to acquire this property.

 

Did I miss something?  I thought that the Drop Inn Center was hellbent on staying in the neighborhood.  I know that a few half way houses are closing to make way for the SCPA, but that is less than 5% of the total social services in the area.  The only real 'plan' to move a large number of social services out Washington park (CityLink) is dead.

 

Here is the last quote that I have heard of the Drop Inn Center:

""You can have a world-class arts school and a homeless shelter and co-exist.... It co-exists that way in other cities. We want to view it as a collaboration in and of itself." - Pat Clifford, Drop Inn Center's managing director.

LINK

 

Obviously, a Drop Inn Center move would be huge for the neighborhood.  Real Citizens could once again use Washington Park.

I vote for Eitght and State, baby!

 

The Drop Inn Center shelter is not moving, only the transitional housing component, which received over $800,000 in city (federal grant) money plus $550,000 in sales proceeds from CPS to move 12 units a couple of blocks to 45-47 East McMicken.  I've heard varying stories that the inflated payoff purchase price of over half a million helps remove some deed restrictions or the like that will permit the DIC to move in the future.

 

And a word of warning, CityLink is not dead, not by a long shot.  The next appeals court hearing is September 12, and a win is not assured. 

 

Apparently the Music Hall garage project is dead in the water as well (at least for the moment).  Seeing as how 3CDC designed and showed to the public a design without even talking to the landowners, oops!

 

Still, there a lot of great things happening down here  :-D

I know it is a little off topic, but what is going on with City Link?  I haven't heard anything about this in over year.  I assumed that it was dead in the water.  I think it will really help the situation in and around Washington Park..

There is a thread about City Link here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5860.0

I know it is a little off topic, but what is going on with City Link?  I haven't heard anything about this in over year.  I assumed that it was dead in the water.  I think it will really help the situation in and around Washington Park..

 

...By sacrificing the West End and the Brewery District in OTR.  Not a good trade, in my opinion.  There is no guarantee that CityLink will reduce the concentration of social service agencies in the rest of OTR, in fact the proposed facility is a net increase in the number of services/beds provided. 

The City Link thread hasn't been updated since Dec 28th, which is why I thought that the project is dead.

 

I understand that it is not the idea solution, but I see it as progress.  At least some of the social services are being pushed further from the city core.  The whole Drop Inn Center/Washington Park social service structure has had a lot of power in the city.  It seems to me that this may be a way to weaken the Drop Inn Center.  Perhaps the 'leadership' of the social service agencies will be more reasonable in the hands of this City Link.

 

It might sound harsh, but I think that the potential for the Washington Park Area is much greater than that of the brewery district.  Music Hall / Washington Park is a major attraction that is WAY underutilized because of the concentration of social service agencies.  I'm in favor of doing whatever is necessary to make the neighborhood valuable to the community once again.

The City Link thread hasn't been updated since Dec 28th, which is why I thought that the project is dead.

 

I understand that it is not the idea solution, but I see it as progress.  At least some of the social services are being pushed further from the city core.  The whole Drop Inn Center/Washington Park social service structure has had a lot of power in the city.  It seems to me that this may be a way to weaken the Drop Inn Center.  Perhaps the 'leadership' of the social service agencies will be more reasonable in the hands of this City Link.

 

It might sound harsh, but I think that the potential for the Washington Park Area is much greater than that of the brewery district.  Music Hall / Washington Park is a major attraction that is WAY underutilized because of the concentration of social service agencies.  I'm in favor of doing whatever is necessary to make the neighborhood valuable to the community once again.

 

What about Findlay Market and all the amazing brewery and warehouse buildings?  The long term potential is just as great if not greater in northern OTR.  One of the problems that has plagued this city and others is not thinking long term.  Moving the problem a few blocks away might work for a few years, but then what?, as development moves north you're back at square one.  Why bother with the streetcar if you're going to throw the rest of the neighborhood away?  We have the opportunity to make the right decisions now, that will work best for the people being served by these agencies (not crowding them in a ghetto) as well as future development.

 

As to the specifics of CityLink, I would be very careful of categorizing them as "reasonable".  They answer to a "higher power" and have no concern for the people they are impacting.  They have proven they have only their own interests in mind, and won't be moved by anyone in the neighborhood (just like the Drop Inn Center).

 

That church screams nightclub, ala Limelight.  It should be the antithesis of red cheetah (or whatever it is now).

 

I thought I saw an ad somewhere a while back that suggested it was being converted into a club venue of some sort?  Did that fall through or am I just imagining things?

What about Findlay Market and all the amazing brewery and warehouse buildings?  The long term potential is just as great if not greater in northern OTR.  One of the problems that has plagued this city and others is not thinking long term.  Moving the problem a few blocks away might work for a few years, but then what?, as development moves north you're back at square one.  Why bother with the streetcar if you're going to throw the rest of the neighborhood away?  We have the opportunity to make the right decisions now, that will work best for the people being served by these agencies (not crowding them in a ghetto) as well as future development.

 

As to the specifics of CityLink, I would be very careful of categorizing them as "reasonable".  They answer to a "higher power" and have no concern for the people they are impacting.  They have proven they have only their own interests in mind, and won't be moved by anyone in the neighborhood (just like the Drop Inn Center).

 

Good post.

Thank you.

 

...I too believe that the church idea is amazing!  The city could really use a musical theater in the neighborhood to compliment its performing venues.

Clutch Cargo's is an amazing venue.  I saw Blur perform there, and the acoustics were fantastic.  If someone had the idea to convert the church at 1205 Elm into a music venue, I'd be all for it.

 

Well the asking price is a bargain at $295,000

Here is a very interesting PDF...it includes a bunch of renderings of the Music Hall Square, lots of other cool information about the Washington Park area and it's related projects.

 

www.urbanohio.com/images/1205_Elm_Packet.pdf

The last message was moved to the Over-the-Rhine project thread.  Please post non-3CDC/Washington Park stuff over there.

I agree that Clutch Cargo's is a great church -> venue conversion... It would be great to have something like it in OTR.  We certainly have the churches.

Music Hall may get friendlier environs

Plan takes rough edges off long-troubled park

BY JOE WESSELS | CINCINNATI POST

August 25, 2007

 

OVER-THE-RHINE - A green oasis among the tough streets of one of Cincinnati's most troubled neighborhoods is on the verge of a makeover.

 

A months-long process of getting public input on Washington Park - nestled in two city blocks between Race, Elm, 12th and 14th streets - is nearing completion. Cincinnati Park Board officials, along with consultants from Walnut Hills-based Human Nature Inc., a landscape architecture firm, have developed a plan that will be presented to the public late in September.

Stehlin said he is also not thrilled with the lowering of the bandstand. Committee members have said that would keep drug dealers from using it as a lookout

LOL

 

A dog park would be cool. I say get rid of the pool, there are pools a few blocks north and east of there.

.. there are pools a few blocks north and east of there.

Not for long if CRC gets their way.  I hear Ziegler Pool may be on the chopping block too.

 

Not a good trade in my view:  remove the amenity used by kids and families and get one that is for dogs.  I am not a big city dog fan. 

I happen to think that a dog park would be a great idea.  Right now, the only people you see near Washington Park area are hobos and heroine addicts.  If you put a dog park in the northern part of the park, there will be nearly constant foot traffic consisting of non-drugged/drunk dog-owners.  That could perhaps make the rest of the park seem a bit more inviting as well.

That could perhaps make the rest of the park seem a bit more inviting as well.

Fencing off a section of the park and labeling it for dogs only doesn't seem inviting to me.

.. there are pools a few blocks north and east of there.

Not for long if CRC gets their way.  I hear Ziegler Pool may be on the chopping block too.

 

Not a good trade in my view:  remove the amenity used by kids and families and get one that is for dogs.  I am not a big city dog fan. 

 

But really, is OTR a place for kids?

.. there are pools a few blocks north and east of there.

Not for long if CRC gets their way.  I hear Ziegler Pool may be on the chopping block too.

 

Not a good trade in my view:  remove the amenity used by kids and families and get one that is for dogs.  I am not a big city dog fan. 

 

But really, is OTR a place for kids?

 

It should be (kids/families) and the movement to get it that way has to start with us.

I see quite a few kids in OTR every day.

But really, is OTR a place for kids?

There are hundreds here now.  I doubt that there are hundreds of dogs in OTR currently.  Are you suggesting that we move the kids out and import some dogs?

The thing is that there needs to be accomodations for both dogs and kids.  There are a heck of a lot more dogs out there than kids, and the way the demographics of urban dwellers are heading those numbers are going to be more and more lopsided for OTR in the future.

 

But with that said, there needs to be accomodations for both to make OTR a truly welcoming place to live...both as a family who might have both a dog and kids, and as a younger couple who has a dog that essentially acts as their kid.  I don't know that you'll see them fence off anything, but rather just make a portion of Washington Park more 'dog friendly.'  In all honesty I don't really know...that's just my guess.

Of course there are kids in OTR. You guys aren't answering the question. Is OTR really a suitable place for kids? I have my doubts. I think the SCPA school makes sense, but as a place for little kids . .  I don't know. Sounds like people are trying to turn OTR in 101 different things and none of them gel with each other.

I don't know why OTR can't be a place for families one day.  You have a great housing stock that could be turned into single-family dwellings that would be ideal for families.  Like I said, there aren't the necessary amenities there now...but that is a problem that can certainly be tackled.  OTR is a large place that can house more than just the creative type, empty nesters and YPs.

They need to banish the homeless alcoholics from the park so it will be safe for kids AND dogs.

I doubt that there are hundreds of dogs in OTR currently.  Are you suggesting that we move the kids out and import some dogs?

I have a kid and a dog and I walk thru OTR everyday with them. The kids I walk past love my dog and it gets me a chance to interact with the locals moreso. I used to take my dog to scpa to run free but won't be able to do that much longer.  People who live in the West end , OTR, Prospect Hill, Downtown, would all use the dog park.  besides  the pools are only open in summer anf half the time the city is trying to shut them down because of the costs involved with running the pools.  I think more woman with dogs would walk in OTR alone and later in the day with a dog park. Who is going to mess with a girl with a rottweiler anyway?

They need to banish the homeless alcoholics from the park so it will be safe for kids AND dogs.

They should be forced into rehab and given jobs as most of them are probably convicted felons and in this country its damn near impossible to get one with a record, but the day the government has an effective program like that is the day I'll die of shock.

 

Of course OTR has a lot of kids, just check out how busy the pool gets in the summer time. Are you suggesting OTR isn't a place for kids because of the crime? I'm sure they come from the type of upper middle class families that will eventually come to their senses and move to east walnut hills  :roll:

Serious question: How much does a dog park cost to build and maintain properly?  The ones I see pictures of have high fencing, fountains etc.  Who cleans the dog park?