If you're presently a resident of downtown Cleveland, you're realistically paying around $800 a month to rent and park. If you are living without a roommate, you're probably paying more (as I am.)

My question is: if you were to BUY "urban" (meaning somewhere in or adjacent to downtown, such as Ohio City) what would you pay $200,000 for?

 

Would you rather have a NEW, tax-abated and mortgage discounted, 3rd floor 1290 square foot condo such as Stonebridge? a 1450 square foot RENOVATED condo on the top floor of Waterstreet condos with no tax abatement but still a discounted mortgage? or a new attached 3-story TOWNHOME such as Battery Park with both mortgage discounts and abatement? Perhaps something else??

 

I know that there are probably tons of other options, but I'm curious as to what you would be willing to take out a $200,000 mortgage for... I ask specifically for a $200,000 price range because it is a possibility for YPs to afford that... I look forward to your responses.

 

I was in 6th floor Stonebridge at that price-point  :-D

On the "something else" side, I know several people who own restored homes in Tremont that have 3K square feet (not including a finished basement). They all bought them in the past five years and they paid $200K (give or take). Personally, I like the Fries and Scheule building - I believe some of the condos there were selling for around $200K at one point.

CL, here's my Urban Ohio True Cleveland Story:

 

I bought a home in Ohio City last year (and I'd be considered a young professional) for around 230K. Its a renovated 1870 Victorian (3300sq ft). Because of the kid(s) and my wife's love of gardening, we wanted a yard.

What exactly is she/he using as the age range for a young professional?

Holy cow! My mom and dad bought their first house worth more than $200,000 five years ago when they were both nearly 50 years old!

are you asking what we personally would do...or what you think YOU should do, or which one is the best investment etc?  I would pick Stonebridge or Waterstreet to live. If for some reason I needed more space, only then would I pick Battery Park.  I only say this b/c it is a little way away from having the amount of walkable amenities that the other 2 have in my opinion.  Surely the Waterstreet building is of better quality than the new contruction Stonebridge, although b/c it is older the maintenance fees could be high (this should always be part of your equation). I guess I prefer older buildings in general even though I live in a new one.

 

Stonebridge is nice b/c you have the best backyard in the city-the Viaduct and you are close to Downtown, Tremont and OC neighborhoods, so depending on your mood you can be in  either in no time at all. For some reason the industrial mix with the river , lake, and skyline is enchanting.

 

It sounds like you are looking for a low maintenance life style, thus no fixer uppers (or in case of old houses, such as my past 2-while restored wonderfully, there is always something to work on) I love the Fries building but the price point is higher than you are looking for. When I originally was looking in late 2003 they were to be priced at 199,900-according to a printed listing from realtor..  But I kid you not b/t the time I had the flyer and we were ready to look they had "repositioned" them (that means jacked up) about 75K. So no go!

 

there are always some nice townhomes floating around OC, so I would look into that too.  Asia town has my favorite spaces (ie loft works, payne ave lofts) but I like a little more action at my door step (plus I am mesmerized by the flats) . If I chose based on the spaces alone- it would be an AT loft.

I wish I could participate in this, but $200,000 is well out of my price range. I'm just a poor, credit card-indebted newspaper reporter, living alone in my Lakewood condo worth maybe one-third of the $200k. No violins please. I chose to stay in Greater Cleveland, stay in this field and stay single. Though I often have second thoughts on all three.

We would probably choose BP or a nice place to renovate in OC.  Hmmm, just what we are looking at.  He needs space.  I need a cleaning lady. :laugh:

I weighed both options: buy or rent. They both have theirs advantages and disadvantages. With the renting, you have the option to move around to new places. You aren't tied down until you can sell your place. You also avoid high utility bills since they're usually included in the rent. Upside to buying is that you can make money. If you pay 200k now, in 5 years, the property may be worth 250k+. You also have options such as a yard (as 3231 says) and can make home improvements however you like. Downside to owning is paying property taxes (in my case, Lakewood has me at $4,700.00 per year). Downside to renting is that you can't remodel your place, since it's not your property. Both options are truly beneficial to each individual. I would love to one day become a renter and live in each neighborhood for a year at a time (e.g. Little Italy -> Tremont -> Coventry -> etc.)

 

Two other things to consider: tax abatements! Finding a house to buy with a full 15/yr tax abatement is usually a great find!

 

Buying condo's and townhome's usually have a homeowner's fee or maintenance fee. They range from under $100.00 a month (e.g. Payne Avenue Lofts) to $900.00 a month (e.g. 1 Bratenahl Place). Some include utilities (e.g. Winton Place) and others don't (e.g. Walker & Weeks Building).

Thanks! Actually, I just bought a home, so the advice is not for me. I'm more concerned with the people BUILDING these properties. It would really suck if Stonebridge built 1000 more condos and the market was demanding walk-up townhomes. I work in the field and consult with them and I'm curious for opinioins.

 

In MY opinion, I like the idea of having multiple floors a nice patio, and no neighbors above me. I like being able to get out of my car and walk to my door, but still live in an urban atmosphere (not to sound cliche.) My opinion, however, could be totally off the wall, so I always like to see what people think. I guess the big question is this:

 

If you were living in Ohio City and all money was equal... (meaning both units were the same price)

 

Would you want a condo or a town-home???

I'd like a townhome. I love the roof top decks that so many new townhomes are offering. I don't like how all the condos are so small. I'd like at least 3 bedrooms (even if its just me and the wifey).

 

My favorite is the Ohio City Townhomes. Great materials, great windows. Beaufitul views from the roof. If they had another bedroom, then I'd be head over heels in love. I don't like the "loft" space that so many townhomes seem to have on their bedroom levels. I think its a waste of space. Its too undefined and therefore gets underutilized.

While I love the idea of a security building, attended entry, etc. and really actually love a multi-story building condo such as Stonebridge, the SQ footage never seems to be enough or enough storage so I have to vote for Townhome.

Give me an old prewar building anyday!  None of this "new" stuff!

1st) Something as close to as possible as raw unfinished space as possible. Preferably from a warehouse first, then a converted office space. Provided its not completely away from some type of occupied neighborhood. Something like the payne ave lofts fits my ideal. I like the no frills work they have done on the insde. It allows me to upgrade and change things as I can afford it. I prefer to be able to design the interrior as I want to, not from the 3 choices the developer has on hand.

 

2nd) go with stonebridge, it has a great view. Mixed feelings about the glass concerning heating and cooling issues. Allthough probably not much different from the issues surround an old warehouse.

 

3rd) water street, its a price type of thing. I would rather go with a more spacious warehouse for cheaper elsewhere first.

 

4th) Townhouse. If I had kids or a dog or had the desire for planting and gardening, I would go this route.

I'd like a brownstone. We don't have them in  Cleveland the way I'd want them. Cincy, Pittsburgh, Brooklyn, Boston do.

I'd like a brownstone. We don't have them in  Cleveland the way I'd want them. Cincy, Pittsburgh, Brooklyn, Boston do.

 

You sure....walking up and down those damn stairs is a bitch!

^^ OH my GOSH! I'm 25...I'll worry about the stairs when I'm old. I just LOVE those buildings. For me, it's just one of those things that makes my day. Walking around Back Bay, Beacon Hill, Brooklyn, the Village.....  I'm in heaven.

^^ OH my GOSH! I'm 25...I'll worry about the stairs when I'm old. I just LOVE those buildings. For me, it's just one of those things that makes my day. Walking around Back Bay, Beacon Hill, Brooklyn, the Village.....  I'm in heaven.

 

say that when the coffees on the garden floor and you're coming down from the third floor.  I have to walk up and down four flights of stairs a few times a day...ugh!  You don't need a stairmaster after living in a brownstone!  lol  :-D

 

I wanna a converted, open warehouse loft with giant windows...............no condo. no townhouse. will somene go in on an old factory with me? 2nd runner up is the brownstone though.

^ Great photo of the stairwell! Love looking at it. Not climbing it.

^ Great photo of the stairwell! Love looking at it. Not climbing it.

 

KJP...You have no idea!  LOL  I try to do everything I need upstairs before going downstairs (and vv). 

 

Yesterday I walked outside and realized I left something, all I could say was, "sh*t!" cause now I've gotta walk up the stairs from the sidewalk to the first floor, then the internal stairs from the first floor to the third.  If I really didn't need stuff, I would have left it.

for 200K, buy an old building and redevelop it yourself!

for 200K, buy an old building and redevelop it yourself!

 

good luck getting financing for this.  i'm sure a lot of people would like to, but you can't get a residential loan to do this type of work (at least not in cleveland).  it is one thing to buy a 200k house and put 50k into it.  a bank will do this.  a commercial building?  no way.  please share if you've succeeded in finding a bank that will, as i've exhausted a number of sources to do this exact type of project in cleveland.

Could energy costs make a difference in figuring affordability?   The cost of natural gas has "more than doubled" in the last several years (electricial generation is driving demand).  Herewith, a continuum of energy considerations:

 

Apartment: Heating costs as low as zero if landlord pays.  A/C a necessity

Condo: Shared walls, ceilings, and floor mean no heat loss.  Modern insulation &weatherization significantly reduce heat loss through windows and exposed walls. A/C a necessity

Townhouse: Shared walls mean no heat loss.  Benefits of modern construction.  A/C a necessity

Discrete home: Highest heating costs.  Old construction may present unsolvable heat loss problems--concrete foundation walls, old windows, odd ceilings may not be cost-effective to ameliorate.  Electricity costs increase with use of furnace.  A/C use may be moderated by shading.

 

I don't know if any of these considerations could add up to even a $200/month difference in energy bills.  From what I recall, though, another $100/month in payments could "get you" another $10,000 in buying power.  That was my rough calculation from the last time I took out a mortgage in the 1990s.

for 200K, buy an old building and redevelop it yourself!

 

good luck getting financing for this.  i'm sure a lot of people would like to, but you can't get a residential loan to do this type of work (at least not in cleveland).  it is one thing to buy a 200k house and put 50k into it.  a bank will do this.  a commercial building?  no way.  please share if you've succeeded in finding a bank that will, as i've exhausted a number of sources to do this exact type of project in cleveland.

 

You'll definitely need a business plan in place for what you plan on doing with the building. You might need a team to do it. Find 3 or 4 like minded people with enough money, credit and elbow grease between yourselves and get started. You can get buildings in Cleveland for much less than 200K if you look. Make sure to budget in all your soft costs and improvements, because the bank will raise red flags if you come back to them asking for more money.

 

Also, you can find some current owners who are willing to let you buy into the property via a land-contract. It gives them a steady check, removes the day to day upkeep and as long as you are adding value to the building then the worst case for them is they get the building back because you couldn't make the payments (actually, there are many other worst cases.. but we'll work under the assumption that you'd be a good owner and landlord). Land-contracts aren't ideal, but they are an option for some people.

 

Anyway, get the building stabilized, lease that puppy up with good tenants, refinance and go buy another building! (wash, rinse, repeat)

 

If it were just that easy...

I know there is a loan program called a 203K program (or maybe its' 203b).  At any rate, if you do some digging at the HUD sites or even on the Ohio City development site you can find more information.  Typically not an income limit but a limit on amount of loan but up to near $200,000.  not too bad.

there are lenders who will finance "hard money". hard money is when the bank will finance generally 70% loan to value of the building based on what it will be worth when you are done remodeling. you usually have 12 months to do what you need to do before the loan is due in full. you can also refinance before that time is up which seems to be the way you would want to go. i know of one local lender who specialize in this type of financing.